WNBA Rookie of the year | Page 6 | The Boneyard

WNBA Rookie of the year

WNBA Rookie of the Year


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eebmg

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The Sun's guards will have to slow Arike down and make it tough for her to score. Good luck with that. I am surprised that WNBA guards have had so much trouble stopping her. Maybe she is just that good.

She has such a shifty dribbling style like the upper part of her body and lower can go in totally different directions. And she can make all the shots and is physically able to finish through contact The biggest problem is when she goes out of control and takes heavily contested/ low percentage shots and she makes just enough so she wants to keep doing it. I suppose she will outgrow that and having better offensive players around her should reduce her desire to do that.
 
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Plebe

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She has such a shifty dribbling style like the upper part of her body and lower can go in totally different directions. And she can make all the shots and is physicallu able to finish through contact The biggest problem is when she goes out of control and takes heavily contested/ low percentage shots and she makes just enough so she wants to keep doing it. I suppose she will outgrow that and having better offensive players around her should reduce her desire to do that.
Okay hold on to those hats and don’t tell my supervisor because I’m fixing to say something nice about Arike.

I’m not surprised at her success as a pro (wouldn’t have predicted 19 ppg but by no means shocked she’s up for ROY). It’s extremely rare to see that kind of speed and coordination in a body that strong .... makes me think of the speed of a running back with the strength of a linebacker. I joked a while back that she can always fall back to roller derby or pro wrestling, but only half jokingly because that’s the kind of strength and body control she has.

I’d like it if her quality of character and conduct measured up to her prodigious talents, but I guess you can’t squeeze blood from a turnip.
 

eebmg

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More from the never thought I would say department.

The more I see the offensive gifts of Arike, the less annoyed I am that she made a circus shot to beat us in the Final Four.:oops::oops::oops::oops::oops::oops::oops::oops::oops:

And her abilities have nothing to do with going to ND. It is completely internal to her style which was in may ways, the antithesis of ND (or UConn) style BB.
 

triaddukefan

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Okay hold on to those hats and don’t tell my supervisor because I’m fixing to say something nice about Arike.
whatthe.gif




I’m not surprised at her success as a pro (wouldn’t have predicted 19 ppg but by no means shocked she’s up for ROY). It’s extremely rare to see that kind of speed and coordination in a body that strong .... makes me think of the speed of a running back with the strength of a linebacker. I joked a while back that she can always fall back to roller derby or pro wrestling, but only half jokingly because that’s the kind of strength and body control she has.

Guess it runs in the family... her brother is RB in the NFL..... .... I was looking at the NFL rosters and came across that name.... figured they must be related.
 

eebmg

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View attachment 46119





Guess it runs in the family... her brother is RB in the NFL..... .... I was looking at the NFL rosters and came across that name.... figured they must be related.

Yes, they mentioned on air her brother had a very good preseason for the Jaguars and will be a significant player in their backfield.
 

eebmg

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Arike with 23 of Dallas 46 pts after 3Q. I wonder if anyone has ever finished with >= 50% of their teams points? And what is the record?
 

Sluconn Husky

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In 60 fewer minutes played, Ogunbowale has taken 190 more shots than Collier.

She played 39 minutes in a 30-pt loss tonight.

Collier just doesn't have a chance against that kind of freedom.
 
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In 60 fewer minutes played, Ogunbowale has taken 190 more shots than Collier.

She played 39 minutes in a 30-pt loss tonight.

Collier just doesn't have a chance against that kind of freedom.
Interesting view of AO's position. I'm not sure I'd characterize playing on the worst team in the WNBA is freedom. In fact the very nature of a draft is the antithesis of freedom of labor movement. Given AO's intense competitive nature I would suspect she would prefer playing on a playoff contender. in fact I suspect she wishes she had the freedom to do so.
 

Plebe

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Interesting view of AO's position. I'm not sure I'd characterize playing on the worst team in the WNBA is freedom. In fact the very nature of a draft is the antithesis of freedom of labor movement. Given AO's intense competitive nature I would suspect she would prefer playing on a playoff contender. in fact I suspect she wishes she had the freedom to do so.
As a wise person sang, "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

The Wings definitely have nothing to lose. They're perfectly content to lose by 30 and waste zero energy playing defense if it gets Arike an individual award.
 
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Sluconn Husky

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Interesting view of AO's position. I'm not sure I'd characterize playing on the worst team in the WNBA is freedom. In fact the very nature of a draft is the antithesis of freedom of labor movement. Given AO's intense competitive nature I would suspect she would prefer playing on a playoff contender. in fact I suspect she wishes she had the freedom to do so.


I don't think anyone's suggesting she doesn't want to win. The point is she's on an awful team and is being allowed to take upwards of 30 shot attempts per game (counting FT attempts) in games that are basically over by half time. That's not her fault, but I think that should be taken into consideration when looking at her body of work. She can certainly score, but she's also being given every opportunity to do so in low leverage situations on a bad team.
 

Fightin Choke

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In 60 fewer minutes played, Ogunbowale has taken 190 more shots than Collier.

Collier has other options on her team, while Arike's options are limited. Collier has 2 other teammates who were voted into the All-Star game this season (Fowles and Sims). Arike has no All Stars on her team. As a team Dallas has shot 38.9% this season. Arike has shot 38.6% this season, and she's a guard so, her shooting percentage will be lower than front court players. She oftentimes takes shots at the end of quarters and late in the shot clock, when her chance of success is lower. As a team, Dallas shoots 32.8 from 3, whereas Arike shoots 35.0% Agler is happy with the way she is playing and has affirmed that on many occasions.

She played 39 minutes in a 30-pt loss tonight.

Collier has played more minutes (1057 to 986) and more minutes per game (33.0 to 31.8) than Arike.

I don't think anyone's suggesting she doesn't want to win. The point is she's on an awful team and is being allowed to take upwards of 30 shot attempts per game (counting FT attempts) in games that are basically over by half time. That's not her fault, but I think that should be taken into consideration when looking at her body of work. She can certainly score, but she's also being given every opportunity to do so in low leverage situations on a bad team.

Arike is not averaging 30 shots per game. She has taken 511 FG attempts in 31 games, which is 16.5 FG attempts/game.

She has taken 157 FT attempts in 31 games, which is 5.1 FT attempts per game. The sum of those two is 21.6 total shot attempts per game.

And Dallas has been playing better as of late and there have been few 30-point blowouts like tonight. Since the beginning of August, Dallas is 5-7, and here are the margin of victory in each game: +23, -5, -12, +3, +6, +6, -10, -16, -4, +5, -6, -30 (tonight's game). Dallas has clearly been competitive, tonight's game notwithstanding. However, Arike was not the reason the team got blown out. She scored 44% of the team's points and dished out 40% of the team's assists.

This year's ROY race has been awesome! Fans can revel in the accomplishments of Collier and Ogunbowale without attacking either player. And if Pokey Chatman hadn't sat McCowan on the bench so long, it's certainly possible that neither Napheesa nor Arike would win ROY. A poor man's Sylvia Fowles? What are you talking about @bballnut90, she has had a much better rookie campaign than Sylvia! :cool:
 

bballnut90

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Collier has other options on her team, while Arike's options are limited. Collier has 2 other teammates who were voted into the All-Star game this season (Fowles and Sims). Arike has no All Stars on her team. As a team Dallas has shot 38.9% this season. Arike has shot 38.6% this season, and she's a guard so, her shooting percentage will be lower than front court players. She oftentimes takes shots at the end of quarters and late in the shot clock, when her chance of success is lower. As a team, Dallas shoots 32.8 from 3, whereas Arike shoots 35.0% Agler is happy with the way she is playing and has affirmed that on many occasions.



Collier has played more minutes (1057 to 986) and more minutes per game (33.0 to 31.8) than Arike.



Arike is not averaging 30 shots per game. She has taken 511 FG attempts in 31 games, which is 16.5 FG attempts/game.

She has taken 157 FT attempts in 31 games, which is 5.1 FT attempts per game. The sum of those two is 21.6 total shot attempts per game.

And Dallas has been playing better as of late and there have been few 30-point blowouts like tonight. Since the beginning of August, Dallas is 5-7, and here are the margin of victory in each game: +23, -5, -12, +3, +6, +6, -10, -16, -4, +5, -6, -30 (tonight's game). Dallas has clearly been competitive, tonight's game notwithstanding. However, Arike was not the reason the team got blown out. She scored 44% of the team's points and dished out 40% of the team's assists.

This year's ROY race has been awesome! Fans can revel in the accomplishments of Collier and Ogunbowale without attacking either player. And if Pokey Chatman hadn't sat McCowan on the bench so long, it's certainly possible that neither Napheesa nor Arike would win ROY. A poor man's Sylvia Fowles? What are you talking about @bballnut90, she has had a much better rookie campaign than Sylvia! :cool:

Really thorough post, glad to see you disprove some weak arguments made. Both Collier and Arike have strong arguments for the award and decision making likely will come down to what (or who) you value more.

Proponents of Arike will bring up there has never been a rookie in the history of the league who went on a tear like Arike has. 3 straight 30+ point games, 9 straight 20+ point games where she is averaging 27.4 ppg and 4 assists per game. On the season she is 3rd in the league in scoring and is playing at an All-WNBA level despite an up and down start. Those who don't want her to win bring up how her team is bad, her percentages are lower and she takes more shots.

Propenents for Collier argue that she has been very good all year and is also elevating her play as of late. More well rounded numbers and higher efficiency than Arike, plus her team is better and will compete in the playoffs. People who don't want her to win can point out she hasn't put up numbers like Arike has and has been put in a more comfortable role than Ogunbowale. One of them winning doesn't take away frrom what the other has accomplished, whoever wins between the two of them has earned it.


And I'm glad to see McCowan getting some love. At this point, she has outplayed Fowles from when she was a rookie. If McCowan averaged 30 minutes per game like Arike/Pheesa do, she'd likely average around 13/12/1.8 blocks per game. That would put her #3 in blocks, #1 in rebounds, 5th in FG% and top 20 in points. She'd be right there in the mix. Next season with her, Vivians, and potentially a top 2 pick, watch out.
 
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McCowan could have had a spectalur rookie season, but Pokie is on one or something. McCowan is going to shock this league. The three main rookies all have distinguishing characteristics that have stuck with them for college, that many thought would not carry through.

Napheesa can defend and score at the 3 and the 4. Arike is scoring at will, and demands special attention as a rookie. And McCowan will dominate on the boards with her size and strength. These three will be the future.
 

Sluconn Husky

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Collier has played more minutes (1057 to 986) and more minutes per game (33.0 to 31.8) than Arike.



Arike is not averaging 30 shots per game. She has taken 511 FG attempts in 31 games, which is 16.5 FG attempts/game.

She has taken 157 FT attempts in 31 games, which is 5.1 FT attempts per game. The sum of those two is 21.6 total shot attempts per game.



The shots per game were more in reference to her recent run where she has been putting up big scoring stats. That's where her shots have gone up. She has taken 97 field goals and 36 free throws over her last 4 games. That amounts to over 30 attempts per game.

And again, 190 more shot attempts. Aside from a +1 assist advantage despite being a guard to Collier's forward, AO's advantage is in scoring. Take Collier's 10 shots per game and give her an average of 16--which is what it would be with 190 more in total--her scoring average extrapolates to 20.6 PPG.
 

bballnut90

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The shots per game were more in reference to her recent run where she has been putting up big scoring stats. That's where her shots have gone up. She has taken 97 field goals and 36 free throws over her last 4 games. That amounts to over 30 attempts per game.

And again, 190 more shot attempts. Aside from a +1 assist advantage despite being a guard to Collier's forward, AO's advantage is in scoring. Take Collier's 10 shots per game and give her an average of 16.4--which is what it would be with 190 more in total--her scoring average extrapolates to 20.6 PPG.

During those 4 games she's averaging 32.5ppg. And all of the games were close besides last night's game.

And you're also making a bold assumption that Collier would continue at the same efficiency despite taking 6+ more shots per game. Many of Arike's shots are taken when the shot clock is winding down and she's expected to create something out of nothing. Collier's efficiency and percentages surely go down if she's taking a larger number of shots.

Plus by that logic, let's see what McCowan would do. She's averaging 6.47 shots per game and scoring 9.7ppg. If she ups it to 16.4 shots per game, she's now averaging 24.8 ppg, significantly ahead of both Collier/Arike. Does that mean she should be ahead of both of them for ROY?
 

Sluconn Husky

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During those 4 games she's averaging 32.5ppg. And all of the games were close besides last night's game.


Plus by that logic, let's see what McCowan would do. She's averaging 6.47 shots per game and scoring 9.7ppg. If she ups it to 16.4 shots per game, she's now averaging 24.8 ppg, significantly ahead of both Collier/Arike. Does that mean she should be ahead of both of them for ROY?


So the defense for AO's shooting% is that she's taking a ton of desperation shots at the buzzer? I don't know how accurate that is but if it is, why is that the case?


Yes, more shots for McCowan would mean more points. Though I hope you see the difference in McCowan's Shaq-like scoring skills and Collier's ability to hit nearly every shot in the book.
 

Sluconn Husky

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And you're also making a bold assumption that Collier would continue at the same efficiency despite taking 6+ more shots per game. .. Collier's efficiency and percentages surely go down if she's taking a larger number of shots.


Collier's first 19 games: 76-172, ( 44.1% FG ), 8.8 shots/gm

Collier's last 13 games: 79-148 ( 53.4% FG ), 11.4 shots/gm
 

UConnCat

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And you're also making a bold assumption that Collier would continue at the same efficiency despite taking 6+ more shots per game. Many of Arike's shots are taken when the shot clock is winding down and she's expected to create something out of nothing. Collier's efficiency and percentages surely go down if she's taking a larger number of shots.

It's not a bold assumption at all. Why would Collier's efficiency surely go down with an additional 6 shots per game? What's your support for that?
 
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The current balloting on this thread for ROY has Pheesa at 71% and AO at 18%. I wonder at this stage of the season if most on the BY would agree with this. I see this is much closer to a 50/50 race.
 

bballnut90

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The current balloting on this thread for ROY has Pheesa at 71% and AO at 18%. I wonder at this stage of the season if most on the BY would agree with this. I see this is much closer to a 50/50 race.

If there's a poll on the ND board, I'm guessing it's probably very pro AO.
 

bballnut90

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It's not a bold assumption at all. Why would Collier's efficiency surely go down with an additional 6 shots per game? What's your support for that?

Because if Collier becomes Minnesota's bail out player, she's taking a greater number of significantly lower percentage shots than she is right now.
 

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