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Dillon77
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I did a deep dive on this in early September, which I'll attempt to find. Primarily "just the facts," but I believe this outburst was also encouraged/needed by Coach Quinn after Stewie left. One thing Loyd does really, really well: draw fouls and get to the line.
I'll post that when I find it.
Dillon77
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Druthers Note: I did some research on Jewell Loyd back in September and offer it up here for some perspective on her Storm career, both "during Stewie" and post-Stewie.
Exec. Conclusion: I think she'll do much better with A'ja Wilson, Jackie Young and Chelsea Gray, along with Becky Hammons as coach.
Sept. 9th post:
This comment regarding the Quinn-Loyd coaching relationship came up earlier in the summer and, while I made a note of it, I didn't have the time to look at it. This time, I decided to pull up a bunch of charts, articles. Exec. summary:
Some excerpts:
2021: Averaged 17.9 ppg. Shot 42% (6.2-14.8 attempts) overall; 38% from three. Shot 89% from line (3.4-3.8 attempts).
2022: Averaged 16.3 ppg. Shot 39.6% (5.6-14.1 attempts) overall; 38.5% from three. Shot 89% from line (2.8-3.1 attempts)
Post-Stewie/Bird
2023: Averaged 24.7 ppg. Shot 37% (7.5-20.3 attempts) overall; 35.6% from three. Shot 89% (6.7-7.5 attempts) from line.
2024 (so far): Averaging 20.1 ppg. Shooting 37% (6.2-16.9 attempts); 28.3% from three. Shooting 88% (6.1-6.9 attempts).
Some takeaways:
Exec. Conclusion: I think she'll do much better with A'ja Wilson, Jackie Young and Chelsea Gray, along with Becky Hammons as coach.
Sept. 9th post:
This comment regarding the Quinn-Loyd coaching relationship came up earlier in the summer and, while I made a note of it, I didn't have the time to look at it. This time, I decided to pull up a bunch of charts, articles. Exec. summary:
- Based on what I saw, it looks like Noelle Quinn is getting out of Jewell Loyd what she wants because Loyd's minutes, shot attempts have all gone up since Quinn became head coach in 2021. In shot, she's complicit in what we see from JL.
- These jumped the shark in 2023 once Stewie left for the right coast and Sue B. retired. While I haven't broken down the first half of the 2024 season vs. the post-Olympic part, Loyd's shot attempts are coming down and are now at 16.9 per game.)
Some excerpts:
2021: Averaged 17.9 ppg. Shot 42% (6.2-14.8 attempts) overall; 38% from three. Shot 89% from line (3.4-3.8 attempts).
2022: Averaged 16.3 ppg. Shot 39.6% (5.6-14.1 attempts) overall; 38.5% from three. Shot 89% from line (2.8-3.1 attempts)
Post-Stewie/Bird
2023: Averaged 24.7 ppg. Shot 37% (7.5-20.3 attempts) overall; 35.6% from three. Shot 89% (6.7-7.5 attempts) from line.
2024 (so far): Averaging 20.1 ppg. Shooting 37% (6.2-16.9 attempts); 28.3% from three. Shooting 88% (6.1-6.9 attempts).
Some takeaways:
- I don't know what the accepted number of attempts per game is for a volume shooter, but let's say it's 15. When Jewell went over 15 attempts per game, her overall shooting percentage dipped under 40%. Her three-pt. percentages have been steadily dropping, with this year's 28.3% the lowest since her rookie year in 2015.
- Quinn has also played Loyd 35 minutes per game in '23 and 34 mpg in '24. I don't think Quinn thought she had a choice in '23, but Loyd is clearly not shooting three's well this season. Get Sami Whitcomb in more? Olympic burnout? As noted in posts last week, Seattle is one of (the worst) three-pt. shooting teams in the league, so this drought is affecting more than Loyd (Whitcomb, Diggins-Smith).
- However, one area where Loyd's decision does have benefits: Look at how often she gets to the line the last two years. And she's stroking these at a very proficient level. So, maybe Coach Quinn should be having Loyd take it to the rack, rather than jacking up the three?
TheFarmFan
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You could have just stopped there. Together, they make up literally 1/4 of the gold medal winning US Olympic Team. Ya think?
Seems like LA lost out on this trade, which is funny to me because they were the only team not having their hands forced. Makes me think a new coach is not going to solve the Sparks' ongoing management issues...
And all that said, I'm really happy for Plum. She deserves happiness and finally playing in front of hometown crowds.
I definitely think Jewell has struggled since the departure of Stewie and Sue. It seems her work environment wasn't the best in Seattle with the new additions so I wouldn't be surprised if that effected her play.
I think she, Vegas and myself are hoping that perhaps a new team with a similar dynamic as the championship Seattle teams would bring back the old Jewell. A'ja and Jewell are really good friends and she's familar with the remaining core in Vegas so that should help with the transition. Now she won't have to shoulder the burden of trying to lead a team like she was trying to do in Seattle.
I think she, Vegas and myself are hoping that perhaps a new team with a similar dynamic as the championship Seattle teams would bring back the old Jewell. A'ja and Jewell are really good friends and she's familar with the remaining core in Vegas so that should help with the transition. Now she won't have to shoulder the burden of trying to lead a team like she was trying to do in Seattle.
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The Aces had a quarter of the Olympic team last year with Plum. It doesn't change anything from that aspect. Net neutral technically.
TheFarmFan
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Of course. But the claim was that the trade was a net improvement for Loyd. And all I'm saying is, yeah, going from a toxic coach and a toxic point guard to a future HOF coach and three fellow multi-Olympic gold medalists is pretty obviously an upgrade.
nwhoopfan
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I think the only thing that really matters for the Aces is if the pre-2024 version of Gray returns, or if last season is what she is now. If she goes back to the version of herself we used to know, they could certainly challenge for a Championship again. If not, I think they'll be a step or two behind the front runners again.
Well that and yet again they need to try to find a way to bolster their bench. And find an actual 5th starter, because Stokes shouldn't be starting for any team in the WNBA.
Well that and yet again they need to try to find a way to bolster their bench. And find an actual 5th starter, because Stokes shouldn't be starting for any team in the WNBA.
bballnut90
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Seattle wins the trade. I’m shocked the Sparks effectively gave up Olivia Miles for 1 year of Kelsey Plum. Establishing a youth core of Brink/Rickea/Miles would’ve put LA in a great spot for years to come.
Loyd to the Aces is a really good fit IMO provided Jewell is okay taking far less shots, similar to her role on the Storm when Stewart was there. She’s a good defender and should be an upgrade from Plum if her shot selection improves (big if).
Loyd to the Aces is a really good fit IMO provided Jewell is okay taking far less shots, similar to her role on the Storm when Stewart was there. She’s a good defender and should be an upgrade from Plum if her shot selection improves (big if).
bballnut90
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SDS left Dallas years ago and I believe requested a trade. No reason to assume she’d have any interest in going back. Dallas would be foolish to trade the pick for any vet considering everyone is going to become free agents after this season. So it’s effectively trading Paige for the #2 pick + 1 year with a vet, and Dallas is likely going to be awful this year regardless so I see no benefit to them
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Net improvement I can see, but I challenge the toxic comment. Phoenix was a mess, however nothing was ever substantiated in Seattle.
All that was put out were third hand accounts and rumours. If that's what we're going to believe what about the claims that Ogumike and Diggins unfollowed Loyd on social media? Or the claims Loyd filed the complaint against Quinn over not reaching her bonus targets?
While we'll never really know what happened, seeing how Diggins' Unrivaled team mates are with her makes me question that narrative. If she was that toxic, would they have approached her to play for the league? It just doesn't make sense to me but I don't have the same dislike of ND as a rival like others.
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What I wouldn't give to see Paige on the same team as Gabby Williams.
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This meme made me laugh. This clip from the NBA All-star weekend will never get old to me.
And still is. The goat for some reason refuses to make her announcement, BG is out the door, the million dollar coach has established a new salary baseline for mediocrity and the front office is a laughing stock. But they do have a new practice facility.
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Yeah....Mr. Ishiba hasn't exactly started off on the right foot as an owner with the exception of the new facility.
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TheFarmFan
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OK, but I think my point still stands that A'ja + Young + Gray + Hammond was a major upgrade for Loyd? All I'm saying is, she forced a trade and got supremely rewarded for it.
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If I am trading paige; I want a ticket seller in return. So, I actually prefer Brink and/or Rickea over Plum as an asset.
I would tell you a move I would do if I were Dallas.
Satou and the #1 overall pick for Caitlin Clark and Katie Lou. I am willing to do that trade.
I would tell you a move I would do if I were Dallas.
Satou and the #1 overall pick for Caitlin Clark and Katie Lou. I am willing to do that trade.
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Yes your point stands. It's the toxic guard comment I disagree with because there is nothing proving who that person was with respect to the Seattle situation.
All we know is that things fell apart, Loyd wanted out and Seattle accommodated her. And considering the original rumour had her landing in Chicago, landing in Vegas is a significant upgrade.
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Let me stir the pot. Big trades in the W aren’t over yet. How about LA sending Plum and a draft pick to Dallas for the #1 pick, and you know who LA would take with that pick….
Of course UConn fans would go there
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Or dear heavens.....are you trying to start an implosion on the board today? If so, I'm here for all of it!
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That pick does have value, but there's no package deal with Clark that I could see Indiana agreeing to for that to happen. The fanbase would likely have a meltdown and be outside the arena burning their season tickets if that were to happen, even with the possibility of Bueckers being drafted.
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As a UConn fan...... let's be clear
. However offering to package Samuelson as part of the deal is interesting and confusing considering her time there previously, not to mention she moved from LA where Miller was the HC.
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I find it hard to believe that diggins-smith goes back to Dallas. Pretty sure she burned some bridges
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That she does
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