WNBA considering expanding by 2 teams

[amb3096]

Joseph Tsai bought and moved the Liberty to play in Barclay's in Brooklyn. Same place that the other team he dabbles in -- The Nets -- play at. Points hold in terms of expenses, but this is a Brooklyn team now.

I didn't realize that the figure of under 2k average fans was at Barclay's. Yikes...

But it does show what happens when you have an owner in which money is no object and he can afford to lose money every game because he's so rich that he owns the stadium vs. those teams with owners where money matters to them.

 

[WFFL]

Again, to say the folding was solely about attendance is an oversimplification at best.

In 2007, their penultimate season, the Comets were still 5th out of 13 teams in attendance, ahead of several other teams still in existence today. Then the new owner moved them from the Toyota Center to a much smaller arena, the Reliant Center. So of course attendance in 2008 was smaller. The fact that this situation came to a head in the depths of the 2008 recession didn't help matters.

Agreed totally

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

A few things ...

First, attendance figures for the first 10 or so years of the league were not "real". As an example, Washington used to count tickets given away as part of its attendance numbers.
The numbers in the last two CBA periods are definitely much closer to reality, in terms of measuring paid ticket sales and turnstile in the building.

Some of you might try searching for this via Google and not find credible confirmation. The data mentioned above was shared with me by a former WNBA General Manager who spent ten years with that franchise (those of you know me will figure out said former GM's identity).

Second, to address @EricLA 's point about WNBA salaries as compared to overseas, the money earned in places like Russia is not sustainable. Teams are owned by billionaires and oligarchs who enjoy women's basketball; the second their interest wanes or they no longer desire to do so, the money will be gone.

The WNBA, by contrast, is building for the long game, developing sustained interest and attendance.

As far as profitability, the WNBA has really held its own, as multiple teams have earned a profit in recent years.

In terms of livelihood of the league, consider:

• Billionaire (and Brooklyn Nets owner) Joseph Tsai bought the NY Liberty.
• Half-a-Billionaire (and Las Vegas Raiders owner) Mark Davis bought the LV Aces.
• Three months ago, the WNBA announced the largest-ever capital raise for a women’s sports - $75 million, with one of the investors being billionaire (and Miami Heat owner) Micky Arison.

You do not see businesspeople making those types of purchases and capital investments without demonstrative evidence of existing or potential multi-faceted financial growth strategy and revenue potential.

 

[Iowa57]

So I fully realize this isn't going to happen, but I think a WNBA team in either Des Moines or Iowa City that was able to draft Caitlin Clark could be successful. Iowa and Iowa State have good WBB attendance in general, and Clark has helped take that to a new level at Iowa. The team could also be marketed as the state's only professional team in a major league.

 

[Longtime fan]

I would be interested in knowing your criteria for a “truly fair wage”? Aren’t fair wages predicated on what the market will stand? Surely the opportunity for higher wages in the WNBA are dependent on the profitability of the league itself? Sure, if you could find 12-16 billionaires who didn’t care if they made a profit then I suppose wages could rise to a level that would lessen the incessant whining about salaries (though it would likely Imo never be enough for some) but in that event, it would no longer be a business but merely an expensive hobby for those billionaires. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against bigger paychecks for people who make their employers lots of money! That’s only fair. However, that’s not happening here. Rather, the league is a giant money pit and the players don’t seem to be able to accept that reality.

I don't have much of an answer. I know that some of the players make a really good salary ( mid six figures ) playing for women's teams in Europe and other places. What the current situation here suggests is that the WNBA is simply not viable. The fan base is certainly there for the college game (WBB) but it seems tepid at best for the pro game. I don't think the WNBA has done a good job marketing itself. Or maybe the issue goes deeper. Why is the mens NBA so successful? And the women's isn't? That is the question. Is it because " super men players" are just so much more interesting to watch? ( I am not a fan, actually. Once dunking and 100% shooting of threes from mid court became routine ). But the women have trouble attracting interest and loyalty. Not super enough? I don't know.

 

[sun]

Boston is ranked #2 in the country for basketball fans only behind LA.

What cities is basketball most popular?

Los Angeles is at the top of the list as the best city for basketball fans with Boston, Salt Lake City, San Francisco, and Philadelphia rounding out the Top 5. Researchers for the WalletHub study compared nearly 300 cities to find the best cities for fans of the game whether it's professional or college.

May 12,. 2022

Pa. cities amongst the best and worst for basketball fans: study

One city in Pennsylvania is considered one of the absolute best—and another, the absolute worst—for basketball fans.

www.pennlive.com

Where Chicago ranks on best cities for b-ball fans

CHICAGO – Many area basketball fans would be quick to say Chicago’s “got game” when it comes to the sport. But one study says otherwise. On WalletHub’s list of 2022&#8…

wgntv.com

 

[RogueDave]

So I fully realize this isn't going to happen, but I think a WNBA team in either Des Moines or Iowa City that was able to draft Caitlin Clark could be successful. Iowa and Iowa State have good WBB attendance in general, and Clark has helped take that to a new level at Iowa. The team could also be marketed as the state's only professional team in a major league.

Agree with you on it would be nice but not going to happen. Fully support your intention on this for sure.

Uncertainty is on the transition of fan support to WNBA team and it all has to do with League playing in the Summer.

The Iowa WBB programs have a lot of synergy going for great Winter WBB attendance. Winters are long and harsh with not a lot to do. The programs are very well run with excellent facilities. Strong history of winning. Very Strong fan interest.

Unfortunately I believe a Iowa WNBA summer league team would have many of the same challenges as the other cities for attendance.

Summer’s are short with lots of other entertainment and recreational opportunities than going and sitting indoors watching anything. In summer getting out there doing recreational activities outweighs watching for most Iowaians.

But still Iowa as a state is a huge supporter of Woman’s athletics.

 

[Bald Husky]

I follow the Connecticut Sun as my summer basketball fix. In the fall and winter you have NBA, NHL, NFL, college football, college basketball. In the summer , you have MLB, that's it except for the WNBA. The WNBA is a good league, with great players and competitive teams. Just having MLB to watch is boring, especially when the home team sucks.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Which 2 teams, Indiana and the Liberty?

 

[Cuango]

This is a great idea of course, provided the teams can be profitable.

WNBA commissioner discusses adding expansion teams

I have no idea where they "should" go. It seems logical to consider cities with strong WCBB following - Columbia, SC, Knoxville, Lexington KY, somewhere in Iowa (ISU and Iowa both have strong fan support). But maybe those aren't logical places? Where do the BY experts think new teams should go?

It's a great idea and hope it comes to pass. I have to imagine players like Evina, Crystal, Moriah, and others who are barely hanging on, could find good homes...

“We don’t want to jeopardize the momentum we have, but we understand the issue about roster sizes,” Engelbert said. “But when you’re a country the size and scale of ours and you’re only in 12 cities, growing the league is a way to do that as well. Then you open up roster spots. I don’t think it’s about rosters per team. It’s about more opportunities to play for more players to play.”

Engelbert’s comments come just days after star Storm forward Breanna Stewart blasted the league for its restrictive salary cap, which has led to fewer available roster spots for incoming draft picks, including those selected in the first round. The 2018 league MVP argued that the WNBA needs to consider creating a developmental league or allowing teams to sign “practice players,” or else the league will suffer from a lack of young talent.

Good for Stewie, but bottom line, not too long ago, the league was not only barely hanging on, but in danger of going under (at least that is my impression). There's a reason the WNBA pays so little, even compared to overseas gigs for women. It seems the league is on the right trajectory, and hopefully interest continues to rise and the league continues to become more profitable.

Has their financial situation changed? Last I heard, they were losing millions every year. An infusion of cash ( which is what I heard happened) isn’t going to suddenly make them profitable. Salaries are trending upward as is media coverage. While still a pittance compared to NBA salaries, $228,000 is far more than most Americans can dream of making. Perhaps, they should show a little gratitude and focus on improved play, less politics and making silly, delusional, and self-aggrandizing comments about NBA players and instead work on improving attendance across the board! That, is the only plausible road to 7 figure salaries. I wish them well (clearly the sports world is better off with a thriving professional women’s league), but ultimately, profitability is the only way for them to achieve their dreams of generational wealth, and NBA level paychecks. One can only imagine how George Nika’s, Bob Cousy, and even Bird and Magic must feel when they see players that couldn’t (in some cases) carry their jockstrap, making $25,000,000 per season but someone had to build the league up into the financial behemoth it is today. Stewart, Wilson, Jones, Loyd etc are the stepping stones that may lead to that kind of wealth for future players. Frustrating, but that is their current reality I’m afraid!

 

[psconn]

people that watch their college teams have 0 interest in the pro Wnba teams. It's like rooting for Kemba when he was a celtic, he was a great Uconn Husky but I have 0 reason to root for that horrible team of horrible fans.

You speak for all people? No.
Based on the response to UConn alumni, and to a few Geno appearances, I can tell you that a large percentage of the thousands in attendance at a typical Sun game are also UConn fans.

 

[baggerbob]

You speak for all people? No.
Based on the response to UConn alumni, and to a few Geno appearances, I can tell you that a large percentage of the thousands in attendance at a typical Sun game are also UConn fans.

The best comment I listened to on You Tube was the suggestion of each team having 15 players on their roster rather then 12. Get more players in the league now and the cost would be less.
The person said this would give New players more of a chance to grow in the league.
Most players aren't ready day 1, and training camps are so short, many good players get cut.

 

[eebmg]

This detailed article seems to show the expansion process is faster and more likely than reported previously

Exclusive: WNBA expansion to add up to 2 teams before 2024 season

Portland, Philadelphia and Oakland are among cities with interest, and the potential financial backing, to add a team.

theathletic.com

Commissioner Cathy Engelbert told The Athletic she hopes to identify one or two cities for an expansion franchise by the start of the WNBA playoffs in September or by year’s end at the latest. Those new teams could begin to play as early as the 2024 season, she said. This would be the first time the league has added an expansion team since the Atlanta Dream were founded in 2008.

6 locations are hypthesized as best targets by the authors (alphabetical order)

1) Nashville
2) Oakland
3) Philadelphia
4) Portland
5) San Francisco
6) Toronto

 

[WFFL]

Really loving the interest and traction the W is gaining !!

Engelbert said the WNBA is down to 10 to 12 cities that it is considering for expansion, although she didn't name them.

Jennings and Vorkunov speculated that Philadelphia, San Francisco, Toronto as well as Nashville, Tennessee; Oakland, California; and Portland, Oregon, are in the mix.

Report: WNBA Eyeing 2 Expansion Teams; Philadelphia, San Francisco Among Candidates

The WNBA is looking into the possibility of expansion with the hopes of one or two expansion teams beginning play in the league by 202

bleacherreport.com