Why no talk of death penalty for Penn State? | Page 28 | The Boneyard

Why no talk of death penalty for Penn State?

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Nostical said:
Without getting picky on how you define "death penalty", the suspension of football for a period can be imposed by The University (they can certainly impose it on themselves), The Governor and Legislature can impose it (PSU being a state school). The NCAA, if they can find sufficient grounds to do so, can impose it. And the US Dept of Education can impose a huge fine under Clery, conditioned on football being suspended, thereby providing a defacto right (like DOT can suspend fed highway funding if states don't comply with certain rules).

I fully expect a suspension of the program for a period of time. The public will demand it.
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PSU should have their football program banned for 5 years, give the players the right to transfer and an extra year of eligibility, allow the coaches to move on to other programs and be paid by PSU throughout the duration of their contracts. Clean all skeletons out of the closet.
 
I would say 5 years of no football and 3 years of no bowl bid, so 8 years in total of the program of not having postseason play.
 
I certainly seems the NCAA is leaning towards imposing some type of sanctions on the program regarding this matter. At the least they are leaving their options open. What complicates things is the applicability of their current laws, the sheer scope and severity of the transgressions, and the fact that there is still more information coming in or possibly yet to be discovered. How long do you wait with the season starting in just over a month? 12 Teams are out there waiting to see if they have a hole in their schedules. But if they were going to back away on jurisdictional grounds we probably would have seen signs pointing to that by now. The most recent statement doesn't indicate that.
 
Jimdish255 said:
I certainly seems the NCAA is leaning towards imposing some type of sanctions on the program regarding this matter. At the least they are leaving their options open. What complicates things is the applicability of their current laws, the sheer scope and severity of the transgressions, and the fact that there is still more information coming in or possibly yet to be discovered. How long do you wait with the season starting in just over a month? 12 Teams are out there waiting to see if they have a hole in their schedules. But if they were going to back away on jurisdictional grounds we probably would have seen signs pointing to that by now. The most recent statement doesn't indicate that.
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It would not be for this season. No one would even suggest that as a possibility. The process will take a while, will certainly allow for a PSU appeal and may have to run through the courts.
 
businesslawyer said:
It would not be for this season. No one would even suggest that as a possibility. The process will take a while, will certainly allow for a PSU appeal and may have to run through the courts.
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100% agree especially because it would harm existing opponents. However not a chance they are bowl eligible.
 
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Jimdish255 said:
I certainly seems the NCAA is leaning towards imposing some type of sanctions on the program regarding this matter. At the least they are leaving their options open. What complicates things is the applicability of their current laws, the sheer scope and severity of the transgressions, and the fact that there is still more information coming in or possibly yet to be discovered. How long do you wait with the season starting in just over a month? 12 Teams are out there waiting to see if they have a hole in their schedules. But if they were going to back away on jurisdictional grounds we probably would have seen signs pointing to that by now. The most recent statement doesn't indicate that.
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I was wondering the same thing in regards to when this would occur. I just can't imagine what it will be like when they play their home opener versus Ohio in September. What will the reaction be? Will TV carry the game? How will the media react? I agree with others that it's too late to cancel their season now but I just can't imagine what it will be like for them. I remember watching the Nebraska game after it was first reported and I've never seen anything like that game. I just have to wonder what it will be like for them this season.....
 
Whenever a crime is committed, there is always collateral damage. There is no consideration for the family of the guilty party who might lose the breadwinner to a jail term.
In this case, the organism that is Penn State protected the criminal and must be punished without regard to innocent parties that might suffer. What incentive would the University have to make sure everything is on the up and up if all they needed to do is expel the guilty individuals while the football train keeps rolling down the track with new individuals? Let’s place the blame if innocents suffer where it belongs, on Penn State – not on the NCAA who might impose penalties.
It appears that many individuals in Happy Valley knew of Sandusky’s proclivities. They also knew Joe Paterno was top man whose word was law. Most in Happy Valley gave tacit approval to this arrangement and reaped the benefits. If the community realized they personally might suffer in the fallout from Jerry’s acts, someone might have stepped up and taken some action much sooner.
Penn State must be severely punished so that others will realize that they are part of the organism that comprises a community and are ultimately responsible to some degree.
 
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businesslawyer said:
I think the chances that the Feds inflicting a punishment that would put Penn State out of business is 0.00000%. That is not in anyone's interest. Closing the University has implications for the state and its population way, way, way beyond those of shutting the football program down for a few years.
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i agree it's in nobody's interests to close down a college, and i can't imagine a scenario where PSU is shut down, but if the lawsuits add up like they some have predicted, and they can no longer accept any kind of federal aid, they're going to have a really tough time maintaining their academic prestige. the other day i heard about 3 alleged victims going back to the 70s and 80s so there's no telling how much they could get sued for. their endowment could get almost obliterated and at a time when states are cutting back their financial support of universities. at the same time they'll have a hard time attracting the same quality of candidates when you throw out students that are going to require federal financial aid. this could really set the university back in ways that extend a lot farther than football.
 
Or Penn State could just do the right thing, sanction themselves and announce that after this season, they will suspend football for at least one season and take a few years off being on TV in order to regain the academic and educational focus. This saves the NCAA alot of time and energy in that they won't pay a team of 100 lawyers to find a way to justify giving them the death penalty, and then the football side of this can just move on.

This doesn't address the fact that the victims will and should continue to sue the pants off of the school for basically putting them in harm's way.

At this point it just seems that their strategy is to wait this thing out and hope it blows over. Reshufflling the University's wire diagram and conduct ethics reviews and panels is just BS.
 
Bestiarius said:
Whenever a crime is committed, there is always collateral damage. There is no consideration for the family of the guilty party who might lose the breadwinner to a jail term.
In this case, the organism that is Penn State protected the criminal and must be punished without regard to innocent parties that might suffer. What incentive would the University have to make sure everything is on the up and up if all they needed to do is expel the guilty individuals while the football train keeps rolling down the track with new individuals? Let’s place the blame if innocents suffer where it belongs, on Penn State – not on the NCAA who might impose penalties.
It appears that many individuals in Happy Valley knew of Sandusky’s proclivities. They also knew Joe Paterno was top man whose word was law. Most in Happy Valley gave tacit approval to this arrangement and reaped the benefits. If the community realized they personally might suffer in the fallout from Jerry’s acts, someone might have stepped up and taken some action much sooner.
Penn State must be severely punished so that others will realize that they are part of the organism that comprises a community and are ultimately responsible to some degree.
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I was trying to say this to Subbadub yesterday, but you just did it better than I could. Forcing a football player who is getting full ride to transfer to another school where he will get another full ride is no tragedy. It's an inconvenience.

The number of people who knew, or saw something that didn't add up doesn't number in the dozens, but probably hundreds.
 
So 80+ scholarships players will automatically get another scholarship at another FBS school? Which ones get ND and which ones get Akron? Is there a line forming somewhere? Does Akron have a Biomedical Department?

The University needs to change. If not, all bets are off. But I was thinking of a way to appease the townsfolk with their pitchforks without hurting anyone else unnecessarily. I stand by my original statement that this is for law enforcement and USDOE for Cleary Act violations, not the idiots at the NCAA, but here goes, your official Subbabub sanctioned NCAA sanctions (abridged):

The University is placed on two years probation to devise and implement the changes to the University's governance structure to the satisfaction of the NCAA as described and outlined in the Freeh Report. Further infractions during or failure to comply by the conclusion of the probationary period will result in an immediate ban on university participation in all NCAA sanctioned activity until such compliance is achieved.

The men's football program shall be barred from appearing broadcast media or other electronic transmission for a period of one year.

The university shall forfeit in the form of a monetary fine the sum of $20 million dollars or the one year pro-rated sum of its share of all Big Ten media contracts, which ever is less.

The NCAA can now go slink back under its own rock.






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SubbaBub said:
So 80+ scholarships players will automatically get another scholarship at another FBS school? Which ones get ND and which ones get Akron? Is there a line forming somewhere? Does Akron have a Biomedical Department?

Who cares. The better players will get to go to better football programs. Even if some have to transfer to I-AA, they are still not paying for college like the rest of us.

The University needs to change. If not, all bets are off. But I was thinking of a way to appease the townsfolk with their pitchforks without hurting anyone else unnecessarily. I stand by my original statement that this is for law enforcement and USDOE for Cleary Act violations, not the idiots at the NCAA, but here goes, your official Subbabub sanctioned NCAA sanctions (abridged):

The University is placed on two years probation

Probation is like no punishment at all. It's like a suspended sentence. This Animal House stuff.

to devise and implement the changes to the University's governance structure to the satisfaction of the NCAA as described and outlined in the Freeh Report. Further infractions during or failure to comply by the conclusion of the probationary period will result in an immediate ban on university participation in all NCAA sanctioned activity until such compliance is achieved.

The men's football program shall be barred from appearing broadcast media or other electronic transmission for a period of one year.

In lieu of the death penalty, the only way I would accept a NO TV course of action, the NO TV period would have to last a minimum of three seasons, with a postseason ban of five. If Penn State just plays football for the thrill and spirit of competition, then what difference would it make anyways?

The university shall forfeit in the form of a monetary fine the sum of $20 million dollars or the one year pro-rated sum of its share of all Big Ten media contracts, which ever is less.

Not enough.

The NCAA can now go slink back under its own rock.






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SubbaBub said:
So 80+ scholarships players will automatically get another scholarship at another FBS school? Which ones get ND and which ones get Akron? Is there a line forming somewhere? Does Akron have a Biomedical Department?

The University needs to change. If not, all bets are off. But I was thinking of a way to appease the townsfolk with their pitchforks without hurting anyone else unnecessarily. I stand by my original statement that this is for law enforcement and USDOE for Cleary Act violations, not the idiots at the NCAA, but here goes, your official Subbabub sanctioned NCAA sanctions (abridged):

The University is placed on two years probation to devise and implement the changes to the University's governance structure to the satisfaction of the NCAA as described and outlined in the Freeh Report. Further infractions during or failure to comply by the conclusion of the probationary period will result in an immediate ban on university participation in all NCAA sanctioned activity until such compliance is achieved.

The men's football program shall be barred from appearing broadcast media or other electronic transmission for a period of one year.

The university shall forfeit in the form of a monetary fine the sum of $20 million dollars or the one year pro-rated sum of its share of all Big Ten media contracts, which ever is less.

The NCAA can now go slink back under its own rock.






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For me. . .I agree on this type of course of action. Absolutely hate what has gone on there, but I happen to have friendships with good kids who attend PSU currently and I really don't agree with hurting them anymore than whats already happening and gonna continue to happen. Let the University pay where hurts them the most (in the pocket), but let the kids play, learn and attempt to overcome their own embarrassment in having to wear a PSU sweatshirt when they visit home. There is already so much collateral damage that I don't know if I would even put my young son through it if he were offered a scholly by PSU to play any sport!
 
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mattp said:
i agree it's in nobody's interests to close down a college, and i can't imagine a scenario where PSU is shut down, but if the lawsuits add up like they some have predicted, and they can no longer accept any kind of federal aid, they're going to have a really tough time maintaining their academic prestige. the other day i heard about 3 alleged victims going back to the 70s and 80s so there's no telling how much they could get sued for. their endowment could get almost obliterated and at a time when states are cutting back their financial support of universities. at the same time they'll have a hard time attracting the same quality of candidates when you throw out students that are going to require federal financial aid. this could really set the university back in ways that extend a lot farther than football.
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The Feds are not going to stop providing financial aid to PSU students as a punishment for this. It is not going to happen, and shouldn't.

Could PSU be harmed by endowment funds paying for legal costs and adverse judgments? Could PSU as an institution be harmed by less political support withing Harrisburg? All of that is possible. PSU could be materially harmed as an institution. But no governmental body is doing anything that would actually threaten the existence, as opposed to the prominence of the university.

And, to be clear, imposing a death penalty on the football program would cause material harm, but would not threaten the existence of Penn State University.
 
businesslawyer said:
The Feds are not going to stop providing financial aid to PSU students as a punishment for this. It is not going to happen, and shouldn't.

Could PSU be harmed by endowment funds paying for legal costs and adverse judgments? Could PSU as an institution be harmed by less political support withing Harrisburg? All of that is possible. PSU could be materially harmed as an institution. But no governmental body is doing anything that would actually threaten the existence, as opposed to the prominence of the university.

And, to be clear, imposing a death penalty on the football program would cause material harm, but would not threaten the existence of Penn State University.
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I don't know much about the Cleary Act, other than what's in the news but, if its prescribed penalties are not enforced in this situation, what is the point of having it at all?

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SubbaBub said:
I don't know much about the Cleary Act, other than what's in the news but, if its prescribed penalties are not enforced in this situation, what is the point of having it at all?

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
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you're 100% right. if they say eliminating federal aid is a potential penalty of violating the Clery Act, what else could they possibly need to have happen to make use of it? if they don't use it now they should just take it off the table as a penalty
 
I am honestly amazed at this discussion. The Cleary Act provides for fines and criminal sanctions. I expects the feds to use both. But if you really think the Federal Government is going to in effect shut down Penn State University, and thus destroy the state college system for all residents of the State of Pennsylvania, and have students who can only afford in-state tuition lose the opportunity to go to a flagship institution, you're nuts.
 
"A student-athlete advocacy group has asked the NCAA to lift all transfer restrictions for Penn State football players, allowing them to switch schools without penalty. The request comes in the wake of the school-funded Freeh Commission concluding that administrators and coaches helped conceal the Jerry Sandusky sexual molestation scandal."

IMO if the NCAA is contemplating and even capable of imposing the 'death penalty' on Penn State, this should be an option for current student athletes. I'm curious if this could be expanded to include all student athletes whose scholarships are funded in whole or in part by the $$$ the football program brings in?
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf-...te-players-transfer-without-restrictions.html
 
This would happen for any current football player if the program were to be brought under suspension (read: the death penalty), for what it's worth.

What the group is calling for is for that restriction to be lifted now, rather than waiting on an NCAA decision.
 
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Worrying about collateral damage is essentially saying "too big to fail" is an acceptable way of thinking about organizations. I hated TARP, I would hate if Penn State wasnt taken to the freaking woodshed.
 
The NCAA should quickly deny the request in advance of determining PSU's punishment. The standard can't be that when the media decides a punishment should be coming, players are no longer subject to transfer restrictions. It is sufficient that they be allowed to transfer when the NCAA acts.
 
I'm always amazed at the thinking of people that, if the penalty is severe enough, it will prevent the crime from happening again in the future. If that were, indeed, the case, there would be no crime committed anywhere. While you can make the case that capital punishment against a murderer prevents THAT murderer from killing again, you simply cannot make the claim that NO murders will ever occur again.

The issue here is not with Penn State University. It is with the human beings that had such callous disregard for doing what is right, moral, and ethical. THOSE should be the focus of punishment, and I trust, will spend the future with less money AND behind bars.
 
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/coll...ncaa-death-penalty-not-only-option/56284878/1

They bring out the point that the NCAA members can suspend or terminate another teams membership, if the NCAA itself does not do it.

Bylaw 3.2.5.1 states: "The membership of any active member failing to maintain the academic or athletics standards required for such membership or failing to meet the conditions and obligations of membership may be suspended, terminated or otherwise disciplined by a vote of two-thirds of the delegates present and voting at an annual Convention."
 
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