Why no talk of death penalty for Penn State?

[SubbaBub]

So 80+ scholarships players will automatically get another scholarship at another FBS school? Which ones get ND and which ones get Akron? Is there a line forming somewhere? Does Akron have a Biomedical Department?

The University needs to change. If not, all bets are off. But I was thinking of a way to appease the townsfolk with their pitchforks without hurting anyone else unnecessarily. I stand by my original statement that this is for law enforcement and USDOE for Cleary Act violations, not the idiots at the NCAA, but here goes, your official Subbabub sanctioned NCAA sanctions (abridged):

The University is placed on two years probation to devise and implement the changes to the University's governance structure to the satisfaction of the NCAA as described and outlined in the Freeh Report. Further infractions during or failure to comply by the conclusion of the probationary period will result in an immediate ban on university participation in all NCAA sanctioned activity until such compliance is achieved.

The men's football program shall be barred from appearing broadcast media or other electronic transmission for a period of one year.

The university shall forfeit in the form of a monetary fine the sum of $20 million dollars or the one year pro-rated sum of its share of all Big Ten media contracts, which ever is less.

The NCAA can now go slink back under its own rock.






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[ZooCougar]

So 80+ scholarships players will automatically get another scholarship at another FBS school? Which ones get ND and which ones get Akron? Is there a line forming somewhere? Does Akron have a Biomedical Department?

Who cares. The better players will get to go to better football programs. Even if some have to transfer to I-AA, they are still not paying for college like the rest of us.

The University needs to change. If not, all bets are off. But I was thinking of a way to appease the townsfolk with their pitchforks without hurting anyone else unnecessarily. I stand by my original statement that this is for law enforcement and USDOE for Cleary Act violations, not the idiots at the NCAA, but here goes, your official Subbabub sanctioned NCAA sanctions (abridged):

The University is placed on two years probation

Probation is like no punishment at all. It's like a suspended sentence. This Animal House stuff.

to devise and implement the changes to the University's governance structure to the satisfaction of the NCAA as described and outlined in the Freeh Report. Further infractions during or failure to comply by the conclusion of the probationary period will result in an immediate ban on university participation in all NCAA sanctioned activity until such compliance is achieved.

The men's football program shall be barred from appearing broadcast media or other electronic transmission for a period of one year.

In lieu of the death penalty, the only way I would accept a NO TV course of action, the NO TV period would have to last a minimum of three seasons, with a postseason ban of five. If Penn State just plays football for the thrill and spirit of competition, then what difference would it make anyways?

The university shall forfeit in the form of a monetary fine the sum of $20 million dollars or the one year pro-rated sum of its share of all Big Ten media contracts, which ever is less.

Not enough.

The NCAA can now go slink back under its own rock.






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[SJScout]

So 80+ scholarships players will automatically get another scholarship at another FBS school? Which ones get ND and which ones get Akron? Is there a line forming somewhere? Does Akron have a Biomedical Department?

The University needs to change. If not, all bets are off. But I was thinking of a way to appease the townsfolk with their pitchforks without hurting anyone else unnecessarily. I stand by my original statement that this is for law enforcement and USDOE for Cleary Act violations, not the idiots at the NCAA, but here goes, your official Subbabub sanctioned NCAA sanctions (abridged):

The University is placed on two years probation to devise and implement the changes to the University's governance structure to the satisfaction of the NCAA as described and outlined in the Freeh Report. Further infractions during or failure to comply by the conclusion of the probationary period will result in an immediate ban on university participation in all NCAA sanctioned activity until such compliance is achieved.

The men's football program shall be barred from appearing broadcast media or other electronic transmission for a period of one year.

The university shall forfeit in the form of a monetary fine the sum of $20 million dollars or the one year pro-rated sum of its share of all Big Ten media contracts, which ever is less.

The NCAA can now go slink back under its own rock.






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For me. . .I agree on this type of course of action. Absolutely hate what has gone on there, but I happen to have friendships with good kids who attend PSU currently and I really don't agree with hurting them anymore than whats already happening and gonna continue to happen. Let the University pay where hurts them the most (in the pocket), but let the kids play, learn and attempt to overcome their own embarrassment in having to wear a PSU sweatshirt when they visit home. There is already so much collateral damage that I don't know if I would even put my young son through it if he were offered a scholly by PSU to play any sport!

 

[businesslawyer]

i agree it's in nobody's interests to close down a college, and i can't imagine a scenario where PSU is shut down, but if the lawsuits add up like they some have predicted, and they can no longer accept any kind of federal aid, they're going to have a really tough time maintaining their academic prestige. the other day i heard about 3 alleged victims going back to the 70s and 80s so there's no telling how much they could get sued for. their endowment could get almost obliterated and at a time when states are cutting back their financial support of universities. at the same time they'll have a hard time attracting the same quality of candidates when you throw out students that are going to require federal financial aid. this could really set the university back in ways that extend a lot farther than football.

The Feds are not going to stop providing financial aid to PSU students as a punishment for this. It is not going to happen, and shouldn't.

Could PSU be harmed by endowment funds paying for legal costs and adverse judgments? Could PSU as an institution be harmed by less political support withing Harrisburg? All of that is possible. PSU could be materially harmed as an institution. But no governmental body is doing anything that would actually threaten the existence, as opposed to the prominence of the university.

And, to be clear, imposing a death penalty on the football program would cause material harm, but would not threaten the existence of Penn State University.

 

[SubbaBub]

The Feds are not going to stop providing financial aid to PSU students as a punishment for this. It is not going to happen, and shouldn't.

Could PSU be harmed by endowment funds paying for legal costs and adverse judgments? Could PSU as an institution be harmed by less political support withing Harrisburg? All of that is possible. PSU could be materially harmed as an institution. But no governmental body is doing anything that would actually threaten the existence, as opposed to the prominence of the university.

And, to be clear, imposing a death penalty on the football program would cause material harm, but would not threaten the existence of Penn State University.

I don't know much about the Cleary Act, other than what's in the news but, if its prescribed penalties are not enforced in this situation, what is the point of having it at all?

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[mattp]

I don't know much about the Cleary Act, other than what's in the news but, if its prescribed penalties are not enforced in this situation, what is the point of having it at all?

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you're 100% right. if they say eliminating federal aid is a potential penalty of violating the Clery Act, what else could they possibly need to have happen to make use of it? if they don't use it now they should just take it off the table as a penalty

 

[businesslawyer]

I am honestly amazed at this discussion. The Cleary Act provides for fines and criminal sanctions. I expects the feds to use both. But if you really think the Federal Government is going to in effect shut down Penn State University, and thus destroy the state college system for all residents of the State of Pennsylvania, and have students who can only afford in-state tuition lose the opportunity to go to a flagship institution, you're nuts.

 

[Johnbuoy]

"A student-athlete advocacy group has asked the NCAA to lift all transfer restrictions for Penn State football players, allowing them to switch schools without penalty. The request comes in the wake of the school-funded Freeh Commission concluding that administrators and coaches helped conceal the Jerry Sandusky sexual molestation scandal."

IMO if the NCAA is contemplating and even capable of imposing the 'death penalty' on Penn State, this should be an option for current student athletes. I'm curious if this could be expanded to include all student athletes whose scholarships are funded in whole or in part by the $$$ the football program brings in?
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf-...te-players-transfer-without-restrictions.html

 

[kingdobbs]

This would happen for any current football player if the program were to be brought under suspension (read: the death penalty), for what it's worth.

What the group is calling for is for that restriction to be lifted now, rather than waiting on an NCAA decision.

 

[HuskyFan16]

Worrying about collateral damage is essentially saying "too big to fail" is an acceptable way of thinking about organizations. I hated TARP, I would hate if Penn State wasnt taken to the freaking woodshed.

 

[businesslawyer]

The NCAA should quickly deny the request in advance of determining PSU's punishment. The standard can't be that when the media decides a punishment should be coming, players are no longer subject to transfer restrictions. It is sufficient that they be allowed to transfer when the NCAA acts.

 

[geordi]

I'm always amazed at the thinking of people that, if the penalty is severe enough, it will prevent the crime from happening again in the future. If that were, indeed, the case, there would be no crime committed anywhere. While you can make the case that capital punishment against a murderer prevents THAT murderer from killing again, you simply cannot make the claim that NO murders will ever occur again.

The issue here is not with Penn State University. It is with the human beings that had such callous disregard for doing what is right, moral, and ethical. THOSE should be the focus of punishment, and I trust, will spend the future with less money AND behind bars.

 

[beerfan]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/coll...ncaa-death-penalty-not-only-option/56284878/1

They bring out the point that the NCAA members can suspend or terminate another teams membership, if the NCAA itself does not do it.

Bylaw 3.2.5.1 states: "The membership of any active member failing to maintain the academic or athletics standards required for such membership or failing to meet the conditions and obligations of membership may be suspended, terminated or otherwise disciplined by a vote of two-thirds of the delegates present and voting at an annual Convention."

 

[sportsart]

It is sufficient that they be allowed to transfer when the NCAA acts.

My guess is the 2012 class will have graduated by then.

 

[businesslawyer]

My guess is the 2012 class will have graduated by then.

Don't get your point. They will have graduated without having been effected by a punishment. So?

 

[businesslawyer]

Worrying about collateral damage is essentially saying "too big to fail" is an acceptable way of thinking about organizations. I hated TARP, I would hate if Penn State wasnt taken to the freaking woodshed.

Seriously? You think starting from the viewpoint that there is not a real difference between a for-profit company and a public institution? They are totally different creatures, and need to be analyzed totally differently.

 

[uconndogs]

Biz, I understand your point, but let's not lose sight of the fact that these football programs and athletic departments are acting every bit the part of for-profit organizations - the very worst of them.

Taking the whole institution down is crazy imo. But, if I were PSU I would shelve this football season in the hopes of bringing about meaningful change in the athletic department that could be demonstrated to the public.

 

[Johnbuoy]

Get rid of Joe. Every mention of him. Take the money out of the Football budget if needed or let professors walk.

PSU will be back.

sd - Your recommendation reminded me of a line from one of my favorite movies "The Ten Commandments" starring Charlton Heston. It's when his step-father Sethi says "Let the name of Moses be stricken from every book and tablet, stricken from all pylons and obelisks, stricken from every monument of Egypt. Let the name of Moses be unheard and unspoken, erased from the memory of men for all time." Substitute JoePa for Moses, and PSU for Egypt...you get the idea.

 

[sportsart]

Don't get your point. They will have graduated without having been effected by a punishment. So?

My main point is it will take forever to make any decision.

My secondary point is the punishment started the day Sandusky was found guilty and got worse with the Freeh report.

The NCAA has enough info to act pretty quickly but it won't.

It's too late for players to move this year so one would hope by the end of the season the NCAA will make it's decision.

 

[mattp]

the way i see it, the Clery Act says it can levy a punishment of forfeiture of any federal aid, and if this is not the situation that would warrant it, what would be? i don't think it'll be the end of PSU, but they may have to lower tuition or offer more scholarships out of their endowment to make up the difference and it'll be painful

 

[geordi]

the way i see it, the Clery Act says it can levy a punishment of forfeiture of any federal aid, and if this is not the situation that would warrant it, what would be? i don't think it'll be the end of PSU, but they may have to lower tuition or offer more scholarships out of their endowment to make up the difference and it'll be painful

Or increase the tuition to make up the difference!!!

 

[businesslawyer]

So under what circumstances do players get to move before the NCAA acts? If they want to move, they can sit out a year and move. But who decides? Is it based on how one sided the public outcry is? How many articles are published? And since when do universities (or anyone else) get punished before they've had their chance to defend themselves?

I just don't see how that is a workable plan. Yes, if you signed up for PSU you didn't know the school would be going through this. But that's true in differing degrees for people who go to any school to play ball. If there is a punishment that effects them, they will have the rules waived. I don't see how anything else is workable.

 

[Johnbuoy]

IMO if the NCAA does nothing to PSU, and the NCAA member schools vote to suspend their membership, there are a few things that will likely happen.

The NCAA (well at least the Committee on Infractions) will have taken one giant step towards irrelavancy and their critics will be chomping at the bit and use this as fodder to call for disbanding this section of the organzation of misguided misfits altogether. This in turn will lead NCAA member schools to establish a defense mechanism that includes self-enforcement and policing to ensure every school adheres to the "conditions and obligations of membership." The resultant will resemble something seen on the TV series Survivor. Who knows...maybe the SEC will form an alliance with the BE, the MAC with B1G, etc., etc., all with the intent of getting other schools to vote on suspending this school or that school (at least temporarily) for some reason or other to put their own conferences in a better position to...you guessed it...make more money. And isn't it always about the $$$$? (This was obviously written tongue-in-cheek for my own entertainment. Boring afternoon I guess.)

 

[BlueMAB]

Worrying about collateral damage is essentially saying "too big to fail" is an acceptable way of thinking about organizations. I hated TARP, I would hate if Penn State wasnt taken to the freaking woodshed.

I hated TARP too, but if you're going to make that comparison can you explain how the two are similar?

How is allowing a state school to continue educating people even vaguely similar to forcing financial institutions to take federal money?

 

[Adios]

Is there any chance that Temple will gain fans as a result of all this?