Why no talk of death penalty for Penn State?

[ktuck911]

thanks bro... good stuff... like it or not PSU, you're really no better than the SMU's of the early to mid 80's...

 

[ktuck911]

The B1G Conference will be fine in the end.

Disassociating themselves from PSU can't be considered out of the question at this point, could it?

 

[Carl Spackler]

The Clery Act was named after Jeanne Clery.

A freshman girl at Lehigh university, that went to bed one night in her dorm room in 1986, and was later that night, raped and murdered by a stranger to her.

In the few years prior to that happening, something like two dozen different rapes, assaults, and crimes had happened on the Lehigh campus, but no students, parents, anybody really knew, and security was definitely lax.

The parents of that girl, changed the college campus world. the things you find all over college campuses now, security phones, etc.....are all because of it.

The law went into effect in 1990. I was at UConn at the time, I remember it was a big deal. Every dorm RA, every student, living on campus and off had to go through training. I'm pretty sure that security procedures and reporting crime and how to do it, are a normal part of the introduction to college life at UConn.

It's crystal clear, that even though everybody at PSU knew about it, they had faith in their leadership that didn't require federally mandated training on how to deal with a criminal like Jerry Sandusky. And it goes back to 1990-1991.

According to Freeh - no training regarding the Clery Act was put in place at PSU until 2007.

Any coincidence that it was at that time, that the Jerry Sandusky started to have any sort of case built against him?

 

[mattp]

i looked it up and it says the penalties are up to 27,500 per offense and possible suspension from federal aid programs. i wonder if each conviction would be an offense, or each individual that didn't do what they were supposed to do, or maybe the two numbers multiplied figuring each person is responsible for each offense. that number could get very large either way, but would be nothing compared to PSU being stricken from excepting federally backed loan money. i'm pretty sure well over half of college undergrads receive federal aid whether it be grants or loans and i could see the extent of this coverup as qualifying PSU for that punishment. that could put PSU out of business much less their football program

 

[businesslawyer]

i looked it up and it says the penalties are up to 27,500 per offense and possible suspension from federal aid programs. i wonder if each conviction would be an offense, or each individual that didn't do what they were supposed to do, or maybe the two numbers multiplied figuring each person is responsible for each offense. that number could get very large either way, but would be nothing compared to PSU being stricken from excepting federally backed loan money. i'm pretty sure well over half of college undergrads receive federal aid whether it be grants or loans and i could see the extent of this coverup as qualifying PSU for that punishment. that could put PSU out of business much less their football program

I think the chances that the Feds inflicting a punishment that would put Penn State out of business is 0.00000%. That is not in anyone's interest. Closing the University has implications for the state and its population way, way, way beyond those of shutting the football program down for a few years.

 

[HartfordHank]

I think the chances that the Feds inflicting a punishment that would put Penn State out of business is 0.00000%. That is not in anyone's interest. Closing the University has implications for the state and its population way, way, way beyond those of shutting the football program down for a few years.

Legally who, if anyone, has the right to impose a death penalty on Penn State?

 

[CTMike]

The Clery Act was named after Jeanne Clery.

A freshman girl at Lehigh university, that went to bed one night in her dorm room in 1986, and was later that night, raped and murdered by a stranger to her.

In the few years prior to that happening, something like two dozen different rapes, assaults, and crimes had happened on the Lehigh campus, but no students, parents, anybody really knew, and security was definitely lax.

The parents of that girl, changed the college campus world. the things you find all over college campuses now, security phones, etc.....are all because of it.

The law went into effect in 1990. I was at UConn at the time, I remember it was a big deal. Every dorm RA, every student, living on campus and off had to go through training. I'm pretty sure that security procedures and reporting crime and how to do it, are a normal part of the introduction to college life at UConn.

It's crystal clear, that even though everybody at PSU knew about it, they had faith in their leadership that didn't require federally mandated training on how to deal with a criminal like Jerry Sandusky. And it goes back to 1990-1991.

According to Freeh - no training regarding the Clery Act was put in place at PSU until 2007.

Any coincidence that it was at that time, that the Jerry Sandusky started to have any sort of case built against him?

Having spent my frosh/soph years at Lehigh (Fall 96-Spring 98)... I never knew this. Wow.

As for PSU... Throw every applicable book at them.

 

[ktuck911]

The Clery Act was named after Jeanne Clery.

A freshman girl at Lehigh university, that went to bed one night in her dorm room in 1986, and was later that night, raped and murdered by a stranger to her.

In the few years prior to that happening, something like two dozen different rapes, assaults, and crimes had happened on the Lehigh campus, but no students, parents, anybody really knew, and security was definitely lax.

The parents of that girl, changed the college campus world. the things you find all over college campuses now, security phones, etc.....are all because of it.

The law went into effect in 1990. I was at UConn at the time, I remember it was a big deal. Every dorm RA, every student, living on campus and off had to go through training. I'm pretty sure that security procedures and reporting crime and how to do it, are a normal part of the introduction to college life at UConn.

It's crystal clear, that even though everybody at PSU knew about it, they had faith in their leadership that didn't require federally mandated training on how to deal with a criminal like Jerry Sandusky. And it goes back to 1990-1991.

According to Freeh - no training regarding the Clery Act was put in place at PSU until 2007.

Any coincidence that it was at that time, that the Jerry Sandusky started to have any sort of case built against him?

I was on campus back then ( 1990 ) too.. remember that well..

As far as the training part goes when it comes to the Sandusky debacle, does anyone really need training for that? You go and tell authority... screw JoePa! ( excuse the french )... and if nothing gets done at that level you keep pushing til something gets done about it.. Put your own family in that situation.. What would you do?

 

[businesslawyer]

Legally who, if anyone, has the right to impose a death penalty on Penn State?

The NCAA has the right to tell Penn State that it is barred from competing in one or more sports as an NCAA member for a period of one or more seasons. that is what is referred to as the "death penalty."

The NCAA can't tell Penn State it can't play football. Penn State can join the NAIA, barnstorm through Europe or play in the NFL. But it can prevent it from playing as an NCAA member (which prevents other NCAA members from playing it).

 

[Nostical]

Legally who, if anyone, has the right to impose a death penalty on Penn State?

Without getting picky on how you define "death penalty", the suspension of football for a period can be imposed by The University (they can certainly impose it on themselves), The Governor and Legislature can impose it (PSU being a state school). The NCAA, if they can find sufficient grounds to do so, can impose it. And the US Dept of Education can impose a huge fine under Clery, conditioned on football being suspended, thereby providing a defacto right (like DOT can suspend fed highway funding if states don't comply with certain rules).

I fully expect a suspension of the program for a period of time. The public will demand it.

 

[Scoe]

Without getting picky on how you define "death penalty", the suspension of football for a period can be imposed by The University (they can certainly impose it on themselves), The Governor and Legislature can impose it (PSU being a state school). The NCAA, if they can find sufficient grounds to do so, can impose it. And the US Dept of Education can impose a huge fine under Clery, conditioned on football being suspended, thereby providing a defacto right (like DOT can suspend fed highway funding if states don't comply with certain rules).

I fully expect a suspension of the program for a period of time. The public will demand it.

PSU should have their football program banned for 5 years, give the players the right to transfer and an extra year of eligibility, allow the coaches to move on to other programs and be paid by PSU throughout the duration of their contracts. Clean all skeletons out of the closet.

 

[Scoe]

I would say 5 years of no football and 3 years of no bowl bid, so 8 years in total of the program of not having postseason play.

 

[Jimdish255]

I certainly seems the NCAA is leaning towards imposing some type of sanctions on the program regarding this matter. At the least they are leaving their options open. What complicates things is the applicability of their current laws, the sheer scope and severity of the transgressions, and the fact that there is still more information coming in or possibly yet to be discovered. How long do you wait with the season starting in just over a month? 12 Teams are out there waiting to see if they have a hole in their schedules. But if they were going to back away on jurisdictional grounds we probably would have seen signs pointing to that by now. The most recent statement doesn't indicate that.

 

[Nostical]

For those of you who believe the NCAA may not act here, I believe the seeds for action were sown in their 2011 letter to PSU. In the face of other sanctions doled out for (by comparison) minor infractions, there is no way they won't act with severity here.

http://www.ncaa.com/content/ncaa-letter-penn-state

 

[businesslawyer]

I certainly seems the NCAA is leaning towards imposing some type of sanctions on the program regarding this matter. At the least they are leaving their options open. What complicates things is the applicability of their current laws, the sheer scope and severity of the transgressions, and the fact that there is still more information coming in or possibly yet to be discovered. How long do you wait with the season starting in just over a month? 12 Teams are out there waiting to see if they have a hole in their schedules. But if they were going to back away on jurisdictional grounds we probably would have seen signs pointing to that by now. The most recent statement doesn't indicate that.

It would not be for this season. No one would even suggest that as a possibility. The process will take a while, will certainly allow for a PSU appeal and may have to run through the courts.

 

[UCername]

It would not be for this season. No one would even suggest that as a possibility. The process will take a while, will certainly allow for a PSU appeal and may have to run through the courts.

100% agree especially because it would harm existing opponents. However not a chance they are bowl eligible.

 

[Nostical]

tear it down. That's a start.

Just turn the statue around so that Joe can continue to look the other way.

 

[UCFBfan]

I certainly seems the NCAA is leaning towards imposing some type of sanctions on the program regarding this matter. At the least they are leaving their options open. What complicates things is the applicability of their current laws, the sheer scope and severity of the transgressions, and the fact that there is still more information coming in or possibly yet to be discovered. How long do you wait with the season starting in just over a month? 12 Teams are out there waiting to see if they have a hole in their schedules. But if they were going to back away on jurisdictional grounds we probably would have seen signs pointing to that by now. The most recent statement doesn't indicate that.

I was wondering the same thing in regards to when this would occur. I just can't imagine what it will be like when they play their home opener versus Ohio in September. What will the reaction be? Will TV carry the game? How will the media react? I agree with others that it's too late to cancel their season now but I just can't imagine what it will be like for them. I remember watching the Nebraska game after it was first reported and I've never seen anything like that game. I just have to wonder what it will be like for them this season.....

 

[UCFBfan]

Two articles on CFN taking two angles on this. Don't agree with all of it but it's interesting.

Pro Death Penalty: http://cfn.scout.com/2/1202914.html

Anti Death Penalty: http://cfn.scout.com/2/1202912.html

 

[phillionaire]

Just turn the statue around so that Joe can continue to look the other way.

I made that joke on the first page. Little late.

 

[Waquoit]

I made that joke on the first page. Little late.

Some people just can't tell a joke.

 

[Bestiarius]

Whenever a crime is committed, there is always collateral damage. There is no consideration for the family of the guilty party who might lose the breadwinner to a jail term.
In this case, the organism that is Penn State protected the criminal and must be punished without regard to innocent parties that might suffer. What incentive would the University have to make sure everything is on the up and up if all they needed to do is expel the guilty individuals while the football train keeps rolling down the track with new individuals? Let’s place the blame if innocents suffer where it belongs, on Penn State – not on the NCAA who might impose penalties.
It appears that many individuals in Happy Valley knew of Sandusky’s proclivities. They also knew Joe Paterno was top man whose word was law. Most in Happy Valley gave tacit approval to this arrangement and reaped the benefits. If the community realized they personally might suffer in the fallout from Jerry’s acts, someone might have stepped up and taken some action much sooner.
Penn State must be severely punished so that others will realize that they are part of the organism that comprises a community and are ultimately responsible to some degree.

 

[mattp]

I think the chances that the Feds inflicting a punishment that would put Penn State out of business is 0.00000%. That is not in anyone's interest. Closing the University has implications for the state and its population way, way, way beyond those of shutting the football program down for a few years.

i agree it's in nobody's interests to close down a college, and i can't imagine a scenario where PSU is shut down, but if the lawsuits add up like they some have predicted, and they can no longer accept any kind of federal aid, they're going to have a really tough time maintaining their academic prestige. the other day i heard about 3 alleged victims going back to the 70s and 80s so there's no telling how much they could get sued for. their endowment could get almost obliterated and at a time when states are cutting back their financial support of universities. at the same time they'll have a hard time attracting the same quality of candidates when you throw out students that are going to require federal financial aid. this could really set the university back in ways that extend a lot farther than football.

 

[ZooCougar]

Or Penn State could just do the right thing, sanction themselves and announce that after this season, they will suspend football for at least one season and take a few years off being on TV in order to regain the academic and educational focus. This saves the NCAA alot of time and energy in that they won't pay a team of 100 lawyers to find a way to justify giving them the death penalty, and then the football side of this can just move on.

This doesn't address the fact that the victims will and should continue to sue the pants off of the school for basically putting them in harm's way.

At this point it just seems that their strategy is to wait this thing out and hope it blows over. Reshufflling the University's wire diagram and conduct ethics reviews and panels is just BS.

 

[ZooCougar]

Whenever a crime is committed, there is always collateral damage. There is no consideration for the family of the guilty party who might lose the breadwinner to a jail term.
In this case, the organism that is Penn State protected the criminal and must be punished without regard to innocent parties that might suffer. What incentive would the University have to make sure everything is on the up and up if all they needed to do is expel the guilty individuals while the football train keeps rolling down the track with new individuals? Let’s place the blame if innocents suffer where it belongs, on Penn State – not on the NCAA who might impose penalties.
It appears that many individuals in Happy Valley knew of Sandusky’s proclivities. They also knew Joe Paterno was top man whose word was law. Most in Happy Valley gave tacit approval to this arrangement and reaped the benefits. If the community realized they personally might suffer in the fallout from Jerry’s acts, someone might have stepped up and taken some action much sooner.
Penn State must be severely punished so that others will realize that they are part of the organism that comprises a community and are ultimately responsible to some degree.

I was trying to say this to Subbadub yesterday, but you just did it better than I could. Forcing a football player who is getting full ride to transfer to another school where he will get another full ride is no tragedy. It's an inconvenience.

The number of people who knew, or saw something that didn't add up doesn't number in the dozens, but probably hundreds.