Why no talk of death penalty for Penn State?

[nelsonmuntz]

If the NCAA does not give Penn State the death penalty for this, I think the NCAA is dead as an organization, and it will be every school for itself. If the NCAA will not step in here, when will it step in? And why should any other school play by the rules when Penn State can do this and get away wit it?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I would suggest that some of you voluntarily ban your paychecks this.month because, let's be honest, you've spent a lot of company time on the boneyard this month, let alone what you do in the lavatory....eeesh.

I'm fascinated by then relentless call to punish innocent people in order make yourselves feel better by venting outrage at what is essentially corporate letterhead. If you believe the Freeh Report, those involved have been removed to the jurisdiction of the.justice system.

If your concern is that PSU the organization should suffer some.monetary penalty, the civil court system will surely see to that.

If your concern is to prevent this from happening again, then not playing football games does nothing to advance that goal, nor does it send any 'message' to anyone.

If your concerned that the NCAA should have something say about one of it's member organizations behaving so reprehensibly, then finally we can agree.

As I've posted elsewhere, the NCAA should place the entire University on two years probation, to implement the governance reforms outlined in the Freeh Report to sufficiently assure that no small group of people can commit future crimes of this magnitude in the name of the university. Failure to do so would result in a ban from participation in all NCAA sponsored activities until compliance is achieved. The two year window is to prevent a hastily thrown together response.

Anyone else have anything productive they'd like to see result from this other than blind vengeance?


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Posting on the Boneyard = raping children? Really?

Penn State does not have a right to a powerhouse football program. Guess what happens when Penn State gets the death penalty: someone else will win those games, and take Penn State's place. Hopefully a school that did not sanction the rape of children.

 

[SubbaBub]

FIring underlings -----people, is not enough. The guy that was in charge of it all Spanier, is still sitting in his office.

You might want to do a little more research before continuing in this discussion. Spanier was fired the same night as Paterno. The fact that he has tenure is another story entirely. I do believe he has an indictment in his near future as having acknowledged in writing his awareness of the reporting requirements and failing to do so along with a good amount of lying.

To me, he's the biggest coward in this mess. He alone could have set the whole thing straight. You can make, a weak as it is, a case that Paterno didn't what to be the one to condemn a friend, Curley as a FB lackey with no real power, Schultz following whatever the company line is but, Spanier absolutely knew his responsibilities under the Cleary Act and could have told a defiant Paterno that it was Sandusky or the both of them and he would have come out on top.

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[Waquoit]

And the message has been more than sent for the future.

What message was sent besides "don't get caught"? The statue still stands.

 

[Carl Spackler]

You might want to do a little more research before continuing in this discussion. Spanier was fired the same night as Paterno. The fact that he has tenure is another story entirely. I do believe he has an indictment in his near future as having acknowledged in writing his awareness of the reporting requirements and failing to do so along with a good amount of lying.

To me, he's the biggest coward in this mess. He alone could have set the whole thing straight. You can make, a weak as it is, a case that Paterno didn't what to be the one to condemn a friend, Curley as a FB lackey with no real power, Schultz following whatever the company line is but, Spanier absolutely knew his responsibilities under the Cleary Act and could have told a defiant Paterno that it was Sandusky or the both of them and he would have come out on top.

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Does Upstater have a multiple personality thing?

You're right, I don't know who's in office where, and who's been fired and who hasn't. I thought Spanier was still on campus and had work responsibilities.

You might want to do a little more research before continuing in this discussion. Spanier was fired the same night as Paterno. The fact that he has tenure is another story entirely. I do believe he has an indictment in his near future as having acknowledged in writing his awareness of the reporting requirements and failing to do so along with a good amount of lying.

To me, he's the biggest coward in this mess. He alone could have set the whole thing straight. You can make, a weak as it is, a case that Paterno didn't what to be the one to condemn a friend, Curley as a FB lackey with no real power, Schultz following whatever the company line is but, Spanier absolutely knew his responsibilities under the Cleary Act and could have told a defiant Paterno that it was Sandusky or the both of them and he would have come out on top.

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Well, technically, he resigned voluntarily.......but that aside. I have no reason to think that when he leaves his house in the morning, and goes to his "office" that it's not an office space on the campus at PSU. But go ahead, choose to attack me, and minutiae,

instead of the actual subject matter, which is my response as to why you said that you didn't understand why people would feel the need to punish the innocents at PSU, by venting rage at what is essentially letterhead now.

THe culture of PSU that allowed for how Jerry Sandusky was handled for 14+ years - is just letter head now? Really? I disagree.

I'll say it again, the innocent players and coaches, woudl have the inconvenience of relocating. The support staff, might very well lsoe their jobs. The surrounding community, that somebody wrote is so financially tied to the 8 fall weekends a year of home football games? Well they'd have an economic down turn. But you know what, when it comes back, they'd be a lot more effective in monitoring their leadership, so that they're operating with the COMMUNITY's best interests, and not their own for the future, rather than the blind faith they did have in their king and royalty.

The innocent fans? Yeah they'd suffer too.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Btw - you know who else was no longer "on staff" at PSU, but still had an office for the last 14 years?

 

[SubbaBub]

Without getting into a long diatribe about culpability of corporations, or in this case a university vs. the people who run them. The "are they people" nonsense.

They way you prevent things like this whether it's a bank, corporation, charity, union, university or whatever, is to provide for accountability of those directing and committing the nefarious actions in question. Those people need to be held to account.

An example. Not long ago there was a locally famous case of a contractor defrauding the state. At the end of the day, the state personnel responsible for oversight were reassigned, the vendor responsible for inspection of the work was sued and reached a settlement, the staff was involved fired, suffered a drop in business. Sounds about what should happen, right? The contractor actually responsible?, sold all his assets, declared bankruptcy and reopened under another name.

The lesson, you can't punish faceless entities, only the people who run them. Focus the hatred and venom where it belongs and try not to let it spill over. Good intentions don't justify hurting innocents. That's all I'll say.

One last one for my friends in the cesspool. Nobody discussed shutting down the Catholic Church? Just holding the high clergy accountable.

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[upstater]

I understood your message to mean that a major reason why faculty are secure in speaking out against their administration is because of tenure. I understand the difference between tenure and non-tenure, I think you skipped over that part of my message convenitently.

My point is this - and you do emphasize it by referencing other institutions where faculty, alumni and students have created change in the culture of their leadership.

AT PSU, tHere should be no fear from any faculty member at PSU, today July 2012, tenured or non-tenured, T.A. to tenure Ph.D, as I wrote before....to speak up and say WTF is Spanier still doing in his office? Among all the other things you ahve written about, not football related. Now is the time to rise up and create change, if that student body, facutly and alumni trully want it.

If those faculty members at PSU, at whatever level on track, have knowledge of sketchy things, there is no reason why anyone should have fear of speaking up about anything to create change at the highest levels of the university right now. If ever there was a time to question yuour leadership within an institution, about anything and everything.....now at PSU, is the time.

The things you describe, the faculty, alumni, students creating change at other institutions - why isn't this happening at Penn State? Are you trying to tell me it is? If you are, I don't believe you and I disagree. I see a BOT that's concerned with the image of Joe Paterno, and his legacy. I see a BOT, that by your own info, is completely corrupt, well beyond this incredibly disgusting scandal. (and to me that's no surprise, b/c to be capable of how they managed SAndusky, it is complete expected to find the kinds of things you discuss in other aspects of their business)

I think the culture of fear, and absolute power is real, and it pervades the entire community, and that's the answer to the question as to why a guy like Spanier, who should be long gone, is still there.

The stakes are going to be about the transfer of power.

We know that there will not be simply a President and Veep deciding on such issues in the future.

Who decides?

Will the BOT retain that oversight? Will faculty be added to that closed circuit (and we know it will be a closed circuit because this will not be a transparent thing; the HR people and the committees appointed will not be accusing people of crimes openly until the moment they decide to report to police)?

Beyond that, what other powers will the BOT garner? We have a BOT that's very tight with a Gov. who wants to deemphasize PSU's current structure (as a top flight university) and to organize it more in line with the 2-year colleges across the state.

There is fear everywhere. I have been told at numerous universities that athletics are a sacred cow. Do not discuss. I've mentioned this in the past on the board regarding not only places like U Miami where I've talked about the culture with insiders (a Dean told me how they organize classes for athletes). In retrospect, the things that shocked me about Miami (i.e. one week bogus classes in the intersession) are now not only normal, but preferred by the NCAA and the APR. But my own university treats athletics as a sacred cow. When every other department experiences cuts of between 10-25%, the money for sports goes up--at a loss. Look at Rutgers. So... again, I'm sure people have more of a moral base to speak up on crimes then the 4 stooges did, but no, people likely won't speak out on power grabs unless they wield significant weight already.

It's the job of senior faculty, normally, and junior faculty are protected.

Remember, the BOT will be hiring the next President and Provost.

The bottom line is that we don't know what changes have been made. The BOT hasn't decided yet. Reportedly, they were meeting after the release of the Freeh report to do so. Those discussions are going to be incredibly rancorous because many of the BOT will see an opportunity here.

If you've ever heard the saying, "Never waste a crisis," then you can imagine what the mindset of the BOT is.

 

[Carl Spackler]

If you've ever heard the saying, "Never waste a crisis," then you can imagine what the mindset of the BOT is.

I have heard it, and I also know we'll go round and round forever. Rutgers? Excellent example in how to do things in a way that's not ideal. I think it was in this discussion, but I also posted the Naval Academy structure, which is a better way to do things with athletics and the relationship to the university academics/finances - I think, but still not without it's own transgressions. IN 2010, the naval academy cleaned house in the superintendants' office, and leadership on down the chain in management and leadership due to the discovery of slush fund that was being used to pay for all kinds of without any accoutnability

, a bank account that was started in 2007 with the earnings from the 2006 Meineke bowl as the initial deposit. In 2011, 14 middies were expelled for marijuana use.

People are people, no matter if it's the USNA football, PSU football, or a D Il soccer program in Atlanta.

It's a matter of being accountable, when transgressions, when rules are broken. I agree with you, it's all about transfer of power for PSU. Accountability.

It's quite clear, that people aren't being properly held accountable for breaking rules at Penn State.

You know, Paterno had everybody fooled. I believed, all those years, that PSU was the standard of a clean program. I have no doubt, that every single broken rule, and transgression that becomes public, and accountability enforced at other insitutions around football over the years, most definitely also happened at PSU, but it was just covered up - really well.

 

[Waquoit]

If those faculty members at PSU, at whatever level on track, have knowledge of sketchy things, there is no reason why anyone should have fear of speaking up about anything to create change at the highest levels of the university right now.

They should be more fearful than ever. PSU isn't interested in change, they just want to put this in the rear-view as fast as possible and move on. They are following the Vatican playbook step-by-step.

 

[Carl Spackler]

You must be talking about the I-84 construction bw Southington and Waterbury.

Anyway, I disagree. I told you we would.

Good intentions don't justify hurting innocents? Good intentions also pave the road to hell, so they say.

Intentions are the reality. The good or bad part is relative, and is related to consequences, both intended and unintended.

We all agree, mostly, I think that some course of action to create change at PSU is necessary. Intention is there - create change at PSU. We all agree on that right?

But we differ elsewhere. By what you've been saying, you absolutely want to see the individuals punished for their roles, but the intent to create change at PSU is unrelated to that punishment. You don't think the culture deserves to be punished. It's that simple. That's what you're saying. You want the individuals punished, and you want to create the change in the culture by some other means, unrelated to punishment. Let the culture go unpunished to save the innocents grief, and either hope for the best that it corrects itself, or you don't think that the culture is at fault at all. If you don't think the culture is at fault, your position is valid IMO. And we're not talking life and death here to innocents BTW.

I think that culture at PSU is at fault though, as well as the individuals. In such case, punishment to both indivdual and culture, is integral in creating the change. When you get into the realm of punishing or damaging an entire culture, collateral damage to innocents is fact.

It's the luxury of living in a place like the United States, that so many educated people can so easily support the so called "innocents" in a situation like we are discussion regarding PSU and something like shutting down the football program.

We are not talking about war among culturres and societies and life and death.

But the principle, is the same. Collateral damage is going to part of punishing ANY culture. If youdon't think cultures are responsible for anything, and only individuals should ever be held accountable for wrongdoing? Then that's a different discussion.

 

[upstater]

I have heard it, and I also know we'll go round and round forever. Rutgers? Excellent example in how to do things in a way that's not ideal. I think it was in this discussion, but I also posted the Naval Academy structure, which is a better way to do things with athletics and the relationship to the university academics/finances - I think, but still not without it's own transgressions. IN 2010, the naval academy cleaned house in the superintendants' office, and leadership on down the chain in management and leadership due to the discovery of slush fund that was being used to pay for all kinds of without any accoutnability

, a bank account that was started in 2007 with the earnings from the 2006 Meineke bowl as the initial deposit. In 2011, 14 middies were expelled for marijuana use.

People are people, no matter if it's the USNA football, PSU football, or a D Il soccer program in Atlanta.

It's a matter of being accountable, when transgressions, when rules are broken. I agree with you, it's all about transfer of power for PSU. Accountability.

It's quite clear, that people aren't being properly held accountable for breaking rules at Penn State.

You know, Paterno had everybody fooled. I believed, all those years, that PSU was the standard of a clean program. I have no doubt, that every single broken rule, and transgression that becomes public, and accountability enforced at other insitutions around football over the years, most definitely also happened at PSU, but it was just covered up - really well.

I agree on the top part, can only go by what I knew personally on the bottom. I think he ruled it like Triponey said he did. He'd been there for 50 years. The idea that Triponey was going to come in and tell him how to discipline football players is farfetched. Yet I know he disciplined people for minor infractions--as in the Enis and Jurevicius cases. The thing in the Triponey article that is incorrect about the violent fight the football players were involved in is that 4 of them were thrown off the team, including Phil Taylor who went to Baylor and Connecticut's own Chris Baker who went to Hampton. So, thought that was weird. But yes, it is bad for the coach to wield this much power.

I don't think the academic stuff was BS because I taught classes there and I was even mildly annoyed by the football program which required weekly reports from me. PITA. I wasn't getting paid to babysit, I was hardly being paid. But they tracked academic progress and forced players to take real courses in majors.

Paterno had old school softness for alcohol drinking and fights. "Boys will be boys." Thefts and fraud were his bugaboos. Nonetheless, look up the case of EZ Smith. Paterno publicly called his year-long suspension ludicrous. I don't know how they got that one over on Paterno but Smith was kicked out for a year for 2 open-container alcohol violations in the dorms in the same year.

Read this first: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/bigten/2005-04-09-penn-state-arrows_x.htm

Note Paterno's attitude. The university punishes, but Paterno decides. Is it hidden? Or out in the open? This was one crotchety old Brooklyn SOB. He was going to have his input. No doubt he bullied Triponey. Occasionally he lost, EZ Smith was off campus for a year because of student affairs (i.e. Triponey)

Read this quote: In 2004, after several incidents involving football players, Mr. Paterno told the Allentown Morning Call newspaper that the players weren't misbehaving any more than usual, but that such news was now more public. "I can go back to a couple guys in the '70s who drove me nuts," he said. "The cops would call me, and I used to put them in bed in my house and run their rear ends off the next day. Nobody knew about it. That's the way we handled it."

 

[businesslawyer]

One last one for my friends in the cesspool. Nobody discussed shutting down the Catholic Church? Just holding the high clergy accountable.

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Good god. Did the Catholic church join a membership organization that gave the organization the power to punish each member if they did not maintain adequate controls over their athletic departments? If yes, I apologize for what i'm about to say. If not, it's a ridiculous comparison.

 

[Vowelguy]

The PSU football culture has already been changed. Coach fired, AD fired, assistant coaches fired, and lots of negative press. People that want to see the death penalty are sadistic or opportunistic.

So are you arguing that if a program does a lot of bad things it should be able to escape sanction just by firing the coaches, AD, etc?

Ultimately this comes down to whether you believe this occurred merely because of a few rogue agents who made bad decisions, or something much deeper within the institution and its culture that led these people to look the other way. Without a doubt in my mind, it was the latter.

 

[Vuce]

Anyone else have anything productive they'd like to see result from this other than blind vengeance?


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Blind vengeance seems like reason enough for me. Sometimes you just have to set an example. The school must be punished, harshly. Football should not be played in that stadium for a few years - if for nothing else than respect for all the victims. And make no mistake, there will be more coming out. No way did this start in 1998.

 

[Jimdish255]

For which guys? Paterno? Spanier? Sandusky? Curley? Schultz?
Fired/dead. Fired. Jail for life. Fired/lung cancer. Retired.

And when you mention the death penalty, for which athletic programs? I don't see why football would be singled out - guess you would have to give the death penalty for all sports teams.

Ignoring the straw man, I would have to say if you can't figure out the second part it's hard to take your post seriously. I'm sorry PSU let you down like this. They let us all down, but to remain in denial isn't going to change the fact that the only logical reason for this systemic cover-up was to protect primarily the FB program. The FB program which was the genesis location and enabler of the activity continuing for many years. The criminal and perpetrator must pay, but those representing the AD and the FB program were practically co-conspirators. Now we're supposed to believe that building up that very same program is the only way for us to "heal" and move on? Maybe not your words but those of people claiming to speak for the university. It's total BS! But that's just my opinion.


.

 

[Jimdish255]

I would suggest that some of you voluntarily ban your paychecks this.month because, let's be honest, you've spent a lot of company time on the boneyard this month, let alone what you do in the lavatory....eeesh.

I'm fascinated by then relentless call to punish innocent people in order make yourselves feel better by venting outrage at what is essentially corporate letterhead. If you believe the Freeh Report, those involved have been removed to the jurisdiction of the.justice system.

If your concern is that PSU the organization should suffer some.monetary penalty, the civil court system will surely see to that.

If your concern is to prevent this from happening again, then not playing football games does nothing to advance that goal, nor does it send any 'message' to anyone.

If your concerned that the NCAA should have something say about one of it's member organizations behaving so reprehensibly, then finally we can agree.

As I've posted elsewhere, the NCAA should place the entire University on two years probation, to implement the governance reforms outlined in the Freeh Report to sufficiently assure that no small group of people can commit future crimes of this magnitude in the name of the university. Failure to do so would result in a ban from participation in all NCAA sponsored activities until compliance is achieved. The two year window is to prevent a hastily thrown together response.

Anyone else have anything productive they'd like to see result from this other than blind vengeance?


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Is that regular probation or double-secret probation?

 

[UCFBfan]

I just want to know what happens if nobody steps in, PSU continues football, goes 10-0 to start the season, and is in the BCS Title hunt. What then? How will the media respond? Will ESPN have Tom Rinaldi do some heart felt story on how PSU has overcome this horrible tragedy and triumphed? Or will the media outlets do what is right and call out how it's wrong that PSU is playing football and how they shouldn't be able to even be in that position?

I think we can all agree that unless someone from the outside steps in, NCAA or someone else, Penn State will not suspend their football operations. I just feel that they don't get it and feel that if they can just win then it will all be better....

 

[orangehomer]

Note Paterno's attitude. The university punishes, but Paterno decides. Is it hidden? Or out in the open? This was one crotchety old Brooklyn SOB. He was going to have his input. No doubt he bullied Triponey. Occasionally he lost, EZ Smith was off campus for a year because of student affairs (i.e. Triponey)

Read this quote: In 2004, after several incidents involving football players, Mr. Paterno told the Allentown Morning Call newspaper that the players weren't misbehaving any more than usual, but that such news was now more public. "I can go back to a couple guys in the '70s who drove me nuts," he said. "The cops would call me, and I used to put them in bed in my house and run their rear ends off the next day. Nobody knew about it. That's the way we handled it."

isn't this the whole point, it highlights a culture where joe punished within his program as he saw fit, without regard for university policies. why is there any reason that it stopped with players, and didn't apply to sandusky? that is what scares the hell out of people.

 

[ZooCougar]

1. This whole belief that you can't come down hard on Penn State Football because innocent people will suffer just does not hold water to me. This is a great example why leaders should be ethical and held to the highest standards. Their poor decision making and conduct can adversely impact many people to include so called innocents. In this case it could be, faculty, alumni, fans, students, student athletes, children of the faculty, the pets of the faculty etc... Where do you draw the line?

2. By the logic of some, you can only punish the individuals directly related to the offense. Of course this works out great if you're sympathetic to Penn State, because most of these people are fired, moved on, graduated etc. This is ridiculous, because these individuals, acting on behalf of the University willfully and deliberately chose to not act out of the fear that acting would damage the University. Aside from the punishments to be levied against Spanier and Co. the University still has some sort of debt.

3. Will alot of people that had nothing to do with Jerry Sandusky and the University's deliberate decision to not act suffer. Of couse. And that is the whole point. Part of the purpose of a punishment is to be a deterrent. If you just punish a bunch of people who are going to be punished anyways then you do not have a deterrent, you have told everyone that as long as you can parse out responsibility to a few people then you can continue with no real repercussions.

4. I really have a hard time feeling sorry for the players or the fans. I definitely don't feel sorry for the current coaches. The student athletes' scholarships at PSU will surely be honored, I am certain the NCAA will allow those that choose to do so to transfer without penalty. They should even grant them an extra year of eligibility depending on the timing.
The coaches should have known the risks when they signed up.

5. Fans... Who cares. Read the PSU boards, look at the riots last fall. So what if they can't root for their favorite team for a few seasons. Life goes on, really bad offenses should have far reaching and meaningful consequences. We call these things punishments. This is not blind blind vengeance, this wide eyed, sober application of of a penalty for a terrible pattern of behavior.

 

[ZooCougar]

Penn State before Sandusky... Remember this Outside the Lines from 2008? As we now know that Penn State has been a renegade program for quite some time, it wasn't like the warning signs weren't there.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7229980

 

[upstater]

isn't this the whole point, it highlights a culture where joe punished within his program as he saw fit, without regard for university policies. why is there any reason that it stopped with players, and didn't apply to sandusky? that is what scares the hell out of people.

It did apply to Sandusky. Spanier ran things the same way and clearly came to an agreement with Paterno. We are talking about institutional structures here and powerful people within those structures. Syracuse and Boeheim run things the exact same way.

 

[SubbaBub]

1. This whole belief that you can't come down hard on Penn State Football because innocent people will suffer just does not hold water to me. This is a great example why leaders should be ethical and held to the highest standards. Their poor decision making and conduct can adversely impact many people to include so called innocents. In this case it could be, faculty, alumni, fans, students, student athletes, children of the faculty, the pets of the faculty etc... Where do you draw the line?

I still haven't heard a tangible benefit to penalizing a bunch of students who did nothing wrong. Leaders should be ethical and just and objective and compassionate. They should also be held accountable for their actions. There is a difference between leadership action which adversely affect innocent people and targeting innocent people for the actions of leadership.

2. By the logic of some, you can only punish the individuals directly related to the offense. Of course this works out great if you're sympathetic to Penn State, because most of these people are fired, moved on, graduated etc. This is ridiculous, because these individuals, acting on behalf of the University willfully and deliberately chose to not act out of the fear that acting would damage the University. Aside from the punishments to be levied against Spanier and Co. the University still has some sort of debt.

Did I just leave America? Perhaps we should hold the future generations of these men's families accountable as well. Punish those responsible. One weakness of the Freeh report is that it only points at these four men. I don't buy that, but do the work to find the others, make your case, and deal with them accordingly.

3. Will alot of people that had nothing to do with Jerry Sandusky and the University's deliberate decision to not act suffer. Of couse. And that is the whole point. Part of the purpose of a punishment is to be a deterrent. If you just punish a bunch of people who are going to be punished anyways then you do not have a deterrent, you have told everyone that as long as you can parse out responsibility to a few people then you can continue with no real repercussions.

You haven't done anything, but just in case you might, we are going to punish you. Really? The deterrent is, if you make sure those who do, pay.

4. I really have a hard time feeling sorry for the players or the fans. I definitely don't feel sorry for the current coaches. The student athletes' scholarships at PSU will surely be honored, I am certain the NCAA will allow those that choose to do so to transfer without penalty. They should even grant them an extra year of eligibility depending on the timing.
The coaches should have known the risks when they signed up.

You seriously underestimate the cost and effort of finding a new school. Maybe it has to be at the FCS level, maybe you can't get a scholarship at the new school. Maybe your major doesn't quite match up. Who cares about an extra year of eligibility. How did the MBB transfers work out? Can you say any of them ended up in a better situation? Haven't we all been screaming that they shouldn't suffer for earlier players skipping school?

The NCAA can do whatever they want and they have on many occasions. I would prefer they use common sense and use their authority to improve the situation rather that grab a couple headlines. I'm sure their are people at PSU worrying about a potential ban. I would like to keep them in that state until they get their act together. Once you ban FB, it's over. I'm not ready for.this to be swept under the rug just yet. There are still too many questions.

5. Fans... Who cares. Read the PSU boards, look at the riots last fall. So what if they can't root for their favorite team for a few seasons. Life goes on, really bad offenses should have far reaching and meaningful consequences. We call these things punishments. This is not blind blind vengeance, this wide eyed, sober application of of a penalty for a terrible pattern of behavior.

That's inside the box thinking, and the NCAA is a crappy box to begin with. This is not about the fans and their football. I was talking about real non-university people whose livelihoods depend on 100,000 people coming into town 8 times a year. It'd be like shutting down a factory in a small town. And yes, I get the obvious FB factory joke, but as a local economic staple, it applies.

Make sure the firing squad is aiming at the right target.

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[ZooCougar]

1. Again, what do you not understand about about transferring without penalty?

2. We need about a dozen firing squads.

3. I don't care if the death penalty damages the local economy. I guess Penn State should have considered the risks when they let Joe Paterno basically run a large portion of the school with no meaningful checks or balances.

4. Tangible benefit? You don't need one because it isn't the students that are being punished. They still get to go to school, but if they want to play football they can transfer. Playing football isn't an entitlement. If you are a college student and your Dad commits murder and goes to jail, you might have to transfer to a school you can afford because your Dad has no income. You don't keep Dad out of jail just for the kids' benefit.

 

[SubbaBub]

1. Again, what do you not understand about about transferring without penalty?

2. We need about a dozen firing squads.

3. I don't care if the death penalty damages the local economy. I guess Penn State should have considered the risks when they let Joe Paterno basically run a large portion of the school with no meaningful checks or balances.

4. Tangible benefit? You don't need one because it isn't the students that are being punished. They still get to go to school, but if they want to play football they can transfer. Playing football isn't an entitlement. If you are a college student and your Dad commits murder and goes to jail, you might have to transfer to a school you can afford because your Dad has no income. You don't keep Dad out of jail just for the kids' benefit.

1. I do understand that you don't just show up with your backpack at a new college.

2. Ready, Fire, Aim.

3. NCAA action here or type thereof is not an automated function. There is a place for deliberation.

4. If your Dad commits murder, should I then kick you out of school as punishment if you can afford to stay?

The direct punishment here is the criminal and civil penalties that are forthcoming. The NCAA stuff is a separate and distinct add-on. I am suggesting that rather than make a show that does nothing to prevent this from happening again. Use the enforcement power to do something that will and is in the best interests if the NCAA, assure a governance structure that works where the current structure failed.

By their noteriery, affect on donors, and visibility, there will always powerful sports programs and coaches. What's needed here are equally powerful administrations and trustees. I'll take that over a, "boy did we hammer them good," and, I'm suggesting the NCAA hammer to get it by strengthing the ombudsmans office, requiring a more diverse board of trustees that includes outsiders and a professional support staff separate from the administration, including an independent compliance officer.

This is not new ground we are covering.here. Use what works.



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