Who made the dumb decision ?

[UConnJim]

This is a ridiculous question.

In the fall of 2016, it looked it was possible that Ollie would go to the NBA to coach and he had managed a team through probation, won an NCAA title, and had made the NCAA Tournament in two out of the 3 years eligible. UConn won an exciting AAC tournament in 2016. His record was 97-44 and he had just signed the #8 recruiting class. I don't remember many people objecting to the new contract at the time.

Unfortunately, that was the peak for Kevin Ollie. Something changed after the contract was signed and UConn's men's basketball has been in a decline since.

I don't blame anybody for the Ollie contract as I would have extended him as well based on his performance through the Fall of 2016.

 

[John]

one of the worst things about our current tricky predicament is all the revisionist history being thrown around here.

 

[RJScootin]

It's simply how these things work. Bobby Hurley just got an extension at Arizona State after going 15-17 and 15-18 in his first two seasons and a good start to this season. He hasn't even made the NIT and he got extended.

Hurley was at bottom of pay for PAC 10 coaches, Ollie at top of coaches salaries in AAC as well as country at time of extension.

Arizona St. ranked 25th going in a positive direction, Ollie well... not so much at time, but who could have predicted it would get this ugly.

That being sad this isn't simple how it works. Most coaches get fired after two losing seasons, not an extension. As will Ollie after this season.

 

[noeynox]

This is a ridiculous question.

In the fall of 2016, it looked it was possible that Ollie would go to the NBA to coach and he had managed a team through probation, won an NCAA title, and had made the NCAA Tournament in two out of the 3 years eligible. UConn won an exciting AAC tournament in 2016. His record was 97-44 and he had just signed the #8 recruiting class. I don't remember many people objecting to the new contract at the time.

Unfortunately, that was the peak for Kevin Ollie. Something changed after the contract was signed and UConn's men's basketball has been in a decline since.

I don't blame anybody for the Ollie contract as I would have extended him as well based on his performance through the Fall of 2016.

This post makes so much sense, but without P5 money to bail us out of a worst case scenario, we're better off taking our chances at having our coaches poached going forward. Diaco and Ollie buyouts have been case studies in how to not run an AD without P5 TV money.

 

[Jimdish255]

He already got a new contract paying $3MM a year after national championship. He was given an extension in 2016. He was already locked up. Once again this wasn’t his payday after NC, this was a premature extension.

"Ollie's previous contract was set to expire May 31, 2019"
We gave him the extension in Nov 2016 (during the season), 5 months after extending Diaco's (Dec 2015 negotiations May 2016 extension) contract.

There would seem to be enough good reasons to hold off until last year was in the books. You would still have had another 2 1/2 seasons before the end of the contract (last year partial, this year AND next). Given our financial situation there seems to be plenty of reasons to take another year to evaluate the trajectory of the program before locking yourself into a big buyout situation you CANNOT AFFORD. During that time they would have also experienced the fallout from Diaco's extension and most certainly would have factored that in.

It was (not just in retrospect) a questionable move. I would prefer we offer generous incentive bonuses at the outset and make it plain to any coach coming in that we will not renegotiate with more than 1 year left on any contract.

 

[John]

"Ollie's previous contract was set to expire May 31, 2019"
We gave him the extension in Nov 2016 (during the season), 5 months after extending Diaco's (Dec 2015 negotiations May 2016 extension) contract.

There would seem to be enough good reasons to hold off until last year was in the books. You would still have had another 2 1/2 seasons before the end of the contract (last year partial, this year AND next). Given our financial situation there seems to be plenty of reasons to take another year to evaluate the trajectory of the program before locking yourself into a big buyout situation you CANNOT AFFORD. During that time they would have also experienced the fallout from Diaco's extension and most certainly would have factored that in.

It was (not just in retrospect) a questionable move.

except supposedly NBA footsy was being played during the time of the KO extension and there was an imminent threat of him leaving, so the school couldn't wait.

 

[Jimdish255]

That was the 2014 contract:
Ollie puts heart into signing new UConn deal

except supposedly NBA footsy was being played during the time of the KO extension and there was an imminent threat of him leaving, so the school couldn't wait.

If you bought that. Agents have a way of floating all kinds of rumors. Bottom line we negotiated a contract we couldn't afford. Build in incentives without mortgaging your future and closing off your options.

 

[Hogoff]

Obviously I don't know Ollie well enough for this to be anything more than armchair psychiatry speculation, but he appears to show signs of serious depression. That can be pretty incapacitating in any line of work.

I agree. And he is at an age where depression tends to set in on men.

 

[Jaybird65]

It is not uncommon to make sure a coach has a 4 year life on a contract at all times to help with recruiting. This whole situation evolved with the manner in which he was hired in the 1st place with the manner in which JC retired. Recruiting would have been difficult during that 1st year if KO only had the 1 year contract. If a true search was able to be held, the new hire would have gotten a 4-5 year contract to start off & probably would have gotten an extension if they had won a national championship which would put us on about the same timeline as we are now. If we're going to look back at who made the "dumb" decision to give the extension, we have to look the whole way back to KO's 1st hiring as HC. KO had a couple year period in which everything he touched worked which has now changed significantly to other way.

Folks keep referring to the fact that he is the highest paid head coach in the AAC; at the time of the extension UConn & he were still shining pretty brightly & I'm sure we all thought at the time that whoever the UConn head coach was should be the highest paid head coach in the AAC....

 

[UConnJim]

"Ollie's previous contract was set to expire May 31, 2019"
We gave him the extension in Nov 2016 (during the season), 5 months after extending Diaco's (Dec 2015 negotiations May 2016 extension) contract.

There would seem to be enough good reasons to hold off until last year was in the books. You would still have had another 2 1/2 seasons before the end of the contract (last year partial, this year AND next). Given our financial situation there seems to be plenty of reasons to take another year to evaluate the trajectory of the program before locking yourself into a big buyout situation you CANNOT AFFORD. During that time they would have also experienced the fallout from Diaco's extension and most certainly would have factored that in.

It was (not just in retrospect) a questionable move. I would prefer we offer generous incentive bonuses at the outset and make it plain to any coach coming in that we will not renegotiate with more than 1 year left on any contract.

Jimdish - Unfortunately, that is not the way it works in college sports anymore as it negatively impacts recruiting. Typically, coaches will have at least 4 years remaining on their contracts to show recruits that the school is committed to the coach for the duration of their college career. You will never get a high 4 star or 5 star basketball recruit if the coach has only 1 or 2 years left on their contract.

Here are some examples:

PC: In 2013, Cooley signed through 2021. In 2016, he signed a "contract for life."
Syracuse: Boeheim is signed through 2021/2022 season.
Kentucky: Calipari is signed through 2023/2024 season.
Texas: Shaka Smart is signed through 2022/2023 season.
Xavier: Mack is signed through 2022/2023 season.
Cincinnati: In 2014, Cronin signed a 7 year contract through 2020/2021 season.

How could a UConn men's basketball coach on a 1 or 2 year contract recruit against coaches that their school's have shown a LT commitment?

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Everyone seems to have forgotten the clause in KO's 2014 contract which eliminated the buyout he would owe the school (for leaving while under contract) is the AD left. Once Warde left we needed to quickly and decisively make a determination on KO'S contract. At the time the new contract did not appear to be an unreasonable move on our part.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Unfortunately, that narrative is not accurate at all. There was no contract set in place upon Warde's departure.

I’ve heard that before but something doesn’t seem right with it.
He had a contract with the school not a personal contract with Warde
How can that be terminated on your AD departure?

 

[Stainmaster]

I’ve heard that before but something doesn’t seem right with it.
He had a contract with the school not a personal contract with Warde
How can that be terminated on your AD departure?

The November 2016 extension was drawn up by Benedict, not Warde.

Warde did not leave an extension framework in place after heading to Michigan. It was 100% a Benedict project.

 

[CL82]

He won a national championship with a roster that probably doesn't rank in the top dozen in program history based on pure talent. He also won that title by out-coaching Tom Izzo, Billy Donovan and Calipari (okay, the last isn't a special feat) in succession. He also proved he could bring in big recruits (five-star kids like Hamilton and Adams).

Wow! I wish we could get someone like that in Storrs!

 

[CL82]

The November 2016 extension was drawn up by Benedict, not Warde.

Warde did not leave an extension framework in place after heading to Michigan. It was 100% a Benedict project.

You know this how Stair? That wasn't my understanding until very recently.

 

[Stainmaster]

You know this how Stair? That wasn't my understanding until very recently.

PM me.

 

[sledog]

what are his external options after the last 2-3 yr clustrfk??

 

[whaler11]

Everyone seems to have forgotten the clause in KO's 2014 contract which eliminated the buyout he would owe the school (for leaving while under contract) is the AD left. Once Warde left we needed to quickly and decisively make a determination on KO'S contract. At the time the new contract did not appear to be an unreasonable move on our part.

A clause that should have been illegal and had them all in front of an ethics board.

 

[8893]

A clause that should have been illegal and had them all in front of an ethics board.

I remember seeing that in there at the time and thinking it was a very unusual clause. And @FfldCntyFan is absolutely right we were stripped of that “protection” once Warde left, hence the need to have a new contract to lock Ollie down, because that’s what the conventional wisdom was at the time.

No doubt that clause played a key role and it is curious that it was there to begin with. Without knowing more I’d just say good negotiating by KO and his people and really bad negotiating by whoever was doing our bidding, but I’m not seeing anything illegal or unethical about it. Are you being hyperbolic or do you see something more than just ineptitude?

 

[whaler11]

I remember seeing that in there at the time and thinking it was a very unusual clause. And @FfldCntyFan is absolutely right we were stripped of that “protection” once Warde left, hence the need to have a new contract to lock Ollie down, because that’s what the conventional wisdom was at the time.

No doubt that clause played a key role and it is curious that it was there to begin with. Without knowing more I’d just say good negotiating by KO and his people and really bad negotiating by whoever was doing our bidding, but I’m not seeing anything illegal or unethical about it. Are you being hyperbolic or do you see something more than just ineptitude?

I don’t know if it’s illegal but it should be.

A state employee provided leverage for himself inside a contract he negotiated with an underling.

Why should Warde Manuel be able to provide himself job security and leverage through Ollie’s contract when he is the one responsible for Ollie’s contact.

The state ethics board is on Corey Edsall’s jock and let that loser write himself leverage into Ollie’s deal.

That is full fledged insanity.

It’s a disgrace to state government and should have had Manuel, SuzieLax and every lawyer in Storrs getting grilled in Hartford.

I’ve been saying this forever - and look at the mess it created.

 

[4UConn]

At the end of the day, as much as I love and respect Jim Calhoun, he made a problematic decision regarding his successor. We've all made bad personnel decisions; the key is how quickly and effectively you remedy the error.

 

[8893]

I don’t know if it’s illegal but it should be.

A state employee provided leverage for himself inside a contract he negotiated with an underling.

Why should Warde Manuel be able to provide himself job security and leverage through Ollie’s contract when he is the one responsible for Ollie’s contact.

The state ethics board is on Corey Edsall’s jock and let that loser write himself leverage into Ollie’s deal.

That is full fledged insanity.

It’s a disgrace to state government and should have had Manuel, SuzieLax and every lawyer in Storrs getting grilled in Hartford.

I’ve been saying this forever - and look at the mess it created.

I’d like to hear answers to why that clause was in there. The way you phrased it—which seems accurate—it sounds like potential self-dealing and/or conflict of interest for Manuel. Was there anyone else whose departure was a trigger for the removal of KO’s buyout? Herbst?

 

[whaler11]

I’d like to hear answers to why that clause was in there. The way you phrased it—which seems accurate—it sounds like potential self-dealing and/or conflict of interest for Manuel. Was there anyone whose departure was a trigger for the removal of KO’s buyout? Herbst?

The funny part being Manuel probably thought it would go the opposite way.

Ollie would win more and have NBA suitors and he would just print money for himself.

Ya know I think I may just retire but a 500k raise would probably change my mind!

 

[whaler11]

I’d like to hear answers to why that clause was in there. The way you phrased it—which seems accurate—it sounds like potential self-dealing and/or conflict of interest for Manuel. Was there anyone whose departure was a trigger for the removal of KO’s buyout? Herbst?

Just another symptom of just how inept the admin is. We learn nothing about nothing - the Kremlin in Storrs isn’t exactly interested in transparency... wonder why?

 

[BPT2Storrs]

Think Ollie regrets not jumping for the NBA?

Do we know if he truly wanted this job long - term? Could it be a possibility that Ollie wanted a HC job to get on his resume to use as a stepping stone for an NBA position? He had early success with the National Championship and was getting PAID. As we know, the NBA came calling, but why leave the $ the State is paying especially when you enjoyed immediate success? A storied program like UConn, easy recruiting (due to him being an NBA veteran with numerous connections to the pros), a national title in his first two seasons, new facilities on campus and a ridiculous contract with some nice perks. Not to mention, in a state with no pro teams, he would be idolized.

Would it be dumb to say that maybe Ollie thought he would skate the rest of his career....which could have lead to ego, laziness, etc. Now he's dug himself a hole and he's not sure how to get out. I've got to imagine there is only one of two ways...take a position in the NBA or coach the rest of the season to save his job. Not sure other colleges are going to come calling if he's let go. Problem is, I think the players have all but given up.

 

[Sonova]

At the end of the day, as much as I love and respect Jim Calhoun, he made a problematic decision regarding his successor. We've all made bad personnel decisions; the key is how quickly and effectively you remedy the error.

By “problematic” you mean that annoying 2014 National Championship?

 

[4UConn]

By “problematic” you mean that annoying 2014 National Championship?

Yes, won with Calhoun's players and system. It's hard to be an apologist for Ollie, but I guess that's your best argument, weak as it is.

 

[Jaker]

so, 3 pages later, did we figure it out yet????

 

[Hi-Low]

so, 3 pages later, did we figure it out yet????

I think KO gave himself the extension and nobody noticed until they checked his file & now...........

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Yes, won with Calhoun's players and system. It's hard to be an apologist for Ollie, but I guess that's your best argument, weak as it is.

What system was that and tell me about all these Calhoun Players
What the heck does winning with someone else players really mean .
Is there a rational human being that says UConn won their first NIT in 1987 ,but did it with Perno’s players. If Ollie is fired and in three years the new coach mange’s to keep
The incoming recruits Gilbert Whaley ,Carlton ,Polley together and somehow get to a ZfF will you say “ ya but he did it with Ollie’s players “
You can hate Ollie but try to be honest. Rational is a stretch.
Saying he won with Calhoun players is exactly what the UConn haters have been saying for years. The reason they say that is the use it to hurt our recruiting . UConn fans who repeat that stupid mantra give aid and comfort to the enemy.
Or as Uncle Joe Stalin use to call you “useful idiots”
Let’s examine this team of superstars.
He had two good undersized guards neither considered an NBA player. and he was the guard coach. Bazz was two emotional and confrontational to ever be a successful leader.
DD was a KO recruit and in his one year under JC his numbers were non existent.
The Great Giffey average 2 points a game his two full seasons under JC and was so deep in coaches doghouse a coaching change gave him a new lease on life.
What he accomplished with this misfit cast plus the addition of Brimah ,Kromah ,TSam
Not a blueblood in the lot . Was one if not the best coaching jobs in UConn history and I go back to Hugh Greer.
First just keeping that core together under suspension, relagation to the AAC ,and awful press was an accomplishment .
Fan desertion , and a short term contract that killed an entire recruiting season didn’t help.
2014 when the emotion of the Ollie hatred subsides and is reviewed by rational people could be one of the alltime great NCAA basketball stories. The story is that good It’s a modern day Hoosiers story . (2011 the team had an NBA all-star PG and a young but Uber talented bunch.)
To take one once of credit from that job the coach did that year is criminal.
Especially if you insist your a UConn fan. Trolls just keep trolling.