Who’s #1? (Merged)

[Bald Husky]

It's interesting, the difference between men's and women's rankings. The two-time defending National Champion UConn men started the season at #3. Yeah, they lost guys to the NBA but they had the previous year, too, and still had a dominating season last year.

The media just loves Kansas.

 

[Tonyc]

Well Im looking at this a little differently. UCLA shot over 47% from trey with one player going 5 for 5. UCLA overall shot the ball very well. This is one game and its early in the season. Many teams arent up to speed yet. On other point UCLA had 17 TOs. Betts controlled the middle and SC did not have a big that could match her as they did in previous seasons. UCLA played team ball and had everybody involved. IMO SC did not look to have a go to player to help bail them out.

In the ND USC game as I said in another thread both teams looked sloppy. Alot of ill advised shots. Hidalgo and Miles were the offense. Not alot of team ball. Alot of one on one play. USC was dependent on Juju and Hidalgo made things tuff for Juju who had a size advantage. Early on it seemed like Juju was the offense and imo trying to do to much. One other point ND's Westbeld is out with and injury.

There is alot of talk about how UConn will do against UCLA and ND. Well UCLA is not on our schedule so we may face them in the NCAA tournament. As far as ND. We play them in a couple of weeks @ ND. First though Texas is at ND. As we have seen in the past playing at ND is not an easy task.

There is alot of talk about how UConn will slow down Hidalgo and Miles who appeared to be NDs offense.. Well my question is how is ND going to slow down Paige Azzi and Sarah? I think that is our answer. Ice is looking good and Jana is coming along just fine. UConn plays unselfish team ball. As good as ND and UCLA looked that was one game. For me being early in the season had alot to do with the play of all 4 teams. SC and USC appeared not to be ready which suggests to me that arent as bad as they looked and their opponents arent as good as they looked. When you play a good team and have an bad game the tendency is to look worse then you are and better then you are.

UConn beat UNC on the road and pretty much had the game under control. Azzi's first game back was against FDU and she got her feet wet for the first time in about a year. She will get better over the next few weeks and should be playing better when we face ND. With that said against ranked teams UConn ND and UCLA all won handily by double digits with UConn and ND on the road. Most of us agree Paige and Azzi are the best guard combos in WCBB. That doesnt change in just one game. Paige and Azzi do alot more then just score. Now add Sarah in the mix. How are defenses gonna slow down all three?

IMO UConn now has 3 great scoring options in Paige Azzi and Sarah. Our next games are against Oregon St (today). OleMiss/Boston, Holy Cross, and LVille before we face ND. We will see where we are and where ND is at. One thing is for sure its gonna be one heck of a game. As far as this weeks polls imo UConn has done nothing loose their position in the polls. ND and UCLA havent earned the right to move up 4/5 positions in the polls because of one game. Texas ND and UCLA are ranked 4,5,6 in last weeks polls. Until UConn is beaten they remain number 1

1. UConn
2. ND
3. UCLA
4. Texas
5. SC

 

[Zonepress]

I think I understand the motivation behind anointing UCLA is the number one team in the country. After all, they just played South Carolina the undisputed number one team in the country and beat them soundly.

However, it's always helpful to check one's premises.

Why does everyone agree that South Carolina is the undisputed number one team before yesterday? It's very common for the prior seasons national champion to be considered for the number one spot, and not get that position if a substantial portion of the team is graduated or left. They only lost one player of note, Cardoso, but maybe this game demonstrates her loss was much more significant than presumed. In other words, perhaps the initial rating of number one for South Carolina was too high. UCLA still won convincingly but if they beat the number two or number three team, would anybody still be seriously arguing they deserve to be number one?

Another potential factor is that South Carolina had a bad game for some reason. Two clear examples:
1. Chloe Kitts entered the game as the team's leading scorer, averaging 14 points per game. She played only 12 minutes and scored two points. Why?
2. MiLaysia Fulwiley was last year's wunderkind, and the teams third leading scorer. She played three minutes and scored zero points. Why?

I haven't read any explanations for either those two players (admittedly haven't looked hard) but when two of your top three scores basically don't show up, but doesn't mean UCLA did win but it arguably means that the win is as much on South Carolina as it is on UCLA.

Putting UCLA ahead of UConn in the rankings would be surprising. I reviewed the last eight years and haven't found an example where the top team loses and someone other than the next best team moved up.

Rankings are meaningless, except one at the end of the year
That being said, I go by the eye test and UCLA
Based on Yesterdays performance is the best team I’ve seen and certainly looks like a contender for national championship
The other side is that they played an average Louisville team, and barely won
Regarding South Carolina they played the last 4
Years with a dominant center: the wide-open uncontested three-pointers that they seemed to get at will last year or not coming. So easy.
Imho Coach Staley(obviously a tremendous coach ). has been more of a defensive minded coach, and I’ve never until last year seen much fluid offense
They have great athleticism ,great depth, but that’s not enough when you go against a team that has similar athletes ,superior size and is playing at home
for those who are doubting UCLA Betts and Barker dominated and outclassed
Both Watkins and Joyce Edwards something no other team in the country can do
As I said, I go by the eye test and UCLA is extraordinarily talented

 

[Reypl21]

I'm in the camp that the rankings are:
1- UCLA, 2 ranked wins over South Carolina (dominant) and Louisville
2- ND, dominant road win against USC
3- UConn, dominant road win again UNC
4-Texas, nothing of note yet, they honestly have a LSU-esque OOC. Only one ranked opponent that wasn't scheduled by them. Disappointing.
After that not sure.

I can see UConn raising up to number 1 because that's how the polls work sometimes. They didn't lose so the voters don't want them to fall. But UCLA/ND have the better wins on their resumes. I think they deserve to be higher. Excited for the ND-UConn game.

 

[Phil]

1. Kitts was making poor decisions. Kept driving on Betts and getting blocked spectacularly/taking midranges she isn't comfortable with. Needed to be pulled immediately.

I have no problem with yanking a player, even your top scorer, if they are making bad decisions, but 12 minutes? Yank her, talk to her put her back in and see if she can correct it.

 

[Dillon77]

To each their own but I'm trying to figure out why it matters at this time in the season........the rankings are likely to change on a weekly basis with every top ten team win or loss so who's ranked number one right now is of little consequence.......as we come down the stretch towards the conference tournaments that's when they'll have my attention.....

Truth, Charlie.
ND has TCU, Utah, Texas and UConn, then gets to "relax" with a trip to 'Cuse and Dome (where they hate to play). I'm as happy as any Domer about Saturday, but there's a lot of tough hoops and, besides, I'm just waiting for Maddy Westbeld to get back on the court. Then, the Irish will be fully much at full spped and I'll be into it....

 

[Phil]

for those who are doubting UCLA Betts and Barker dominated and outclassed
Both Watkins and Joyce Edwards something no other team in the country can do

I'm going to gently push back on this. While obviously there's more to performance than simply points let's look at how UCLA managed to shut down Watkins and Edwards:

UCLA versus SC
Watkins 8
Edwards 6

No one else in the country?
Even though NC State lost by 14 points to South Carolina is how those two did:

NC State versus SC
Watkins 6
Edwards 8

You could not get much closer to identical.

addendum:

Watkins and Edwards scored 14 points combined against UCLA, and 14 points combined against NC State. Against Coppin State, they combined for 13 points.

I'm not arguing that UCLA was not a good team or that wasn't an impressive performance, I'm just puzzled that you would emphasize holding two players to 14 points as evidence of dominance when two lesser teams have done as well or better

 

[Phil]

Regarding South Carolina they played the last 4
Years with a dominant center: the wide-open uncontested three-pointers that they seemed to get at will last year or not coming. So easy.

I do agree this is an insightful take away.

 

[Centerstream]

Notre Dame

UCLA

No Idea, any order probably works:

UCONN

SC

Texas



I can't see SC right under UCLA because of how badly they were beaten. But UCONN hasn't seemed number 3 ready yet either, even with the win over UNC. Texas hasn't played anyone ranked yet, so really, 1 and 2 are the only valid spots. 3-5 remain open to anyone of those three.

Rationally, it should be UCONN, SC, then Texas. But I've watched all of them gameplay wise, and SC looks messy rotation wise. UCONN is still having front court issues, and Texas just hasn't played anyone good yet.

Do you, or anyone here on the BY, actually think that the average AP voter spends a lot of time each weekend analyzing each and every team that is ranked in the Top 25? I don't. I believe that they have their favorites, no idea what it is based on, and vote accordingly based upon the game scores.

 

[yhun89]

Do you, or anyone here on the BY, actually think that the average AP voter spends a lot of time each weekend analyzing each and every team that is ranked in the Top 25? I don't. I believe that they have their favorites, no idea what it is based on, and vote accordingly based upon the game scores.

Uh, no, I was just saying my opinion on how I think they should be ranked. AP probably uses AI at this point.

 

[Centerstream]

I'm in the camp that the rankings are:
1- UCLA, 2 ranked wins over South Carolina (dominant) and Louisville
2- ND, dominant road win against USC
3- UConn, dominant road win again UNC
4-Texas, nothing of note yet, they honestly have a LSU-esque OOC. Only one ranked opponent that wasn't scheduled by them. Disappointing.
After that not sure.

Not sure who you mean by this, but they do play the Golden Domers a week before we go to South Bend.
But won't Texas be defined by their SEC schedule, not their OOC schedule?

 

[Rixxx]

Betts exposed a big problem that SC has... it was like a Woman against a Child... Kitts couldn't do anything.

Kitts does mix it up in the paint. However, any offensive effort resulted in a stuff by UCLA unfortunately.

 

[DEpup]

If a dominant (mostly) 20 point win over the #1 team early in the year isn’t enough to get a team to #1 then I don’t know what the voters are doing.

I think the challenge is that SC was #1 because the won it all last year, not because they were impressive so far this year.

 

[CL82]

? In the past week UConn MBB has risen from 3 to 2 in both the AP & Coaches polls, behind #1 Kansas. Former # 2 Alabama dropped several spots after losing last week to Purdue.

You are correct. I'm not sure what I "misremembered" to make me think otherwise.

 

[Dillon77]

I have no problem with yanking a player, even your top scorer, if they are making bad decisions, but 12 minutes? Yank her, talk to her put her back in and see if she can correct it.

Kind of felt the same way, particularly because she could probably help in the paint. Makes one wonder if that one game "academic-based" suspension might be a bit more....

 

[Zonepress]

I'm going to gently push back on this. While obviously there's more to performance than simply points let's look at how UCLA managed to shut down Watkins and Edwards:

UCLA versus SC
Watkins 8
Edwards 6

No one else in the country?
Even though NC State lost by 14 points to South Carolina is how those two did:

NC State versus SC
Watkins 6
Edwards 8

You could not get much closer to identical.

addendum:

Watkins and Edwards scored 14 points combined against UCLA, and 14 points combined against NC State. Against Coppin State, they combined for 13 points.

I'm not arguing that UCLA was not a good team or that wasn't an impressive performance, I'm just puzzled that you would emphasize holding two players to 14 points as evidence of dominance when two lesser teams have done as well or better

Well, if you go by the eye test and no statistics
Both Edwards and Watkins we’re not factors in the game
They couldn’t get to the off glass which is a big part of South Carolina’s offense everything for South Carolina, seem to be a jumpshot closely guarded
They couldn’t guard the big players inside, and never capitalized when Betts /Barker played health, Defense
And while I wasn’t in attendance from what I saw on the screen, they looked completely intimidated
Honestly I thought if UCLA had not substituted so much in the second half and gone with the original starters, they would’ve won the game by 30+
South Carolina is going to win almost all their games through superior athleticism and t
Depth they had neither against UCLA

 

[Vowelguy]

I think the challenge is that SC was #1 because the won it all last year, not because they were impressive so far this year.

They were #1 because they returned something like 7 of their top 8 from an undefeated team.

 

[hoopsfan22]

I often wonder if the voters actually do their jobs and actually assess what the teams are doing. Do they only look at final scores of games? If so, UConn will almost never get a true reading as Geno seems to not like to blow out teams. UConn was dominating UNC until the second half when Geno started playing with combinations and not using Paige much if at all until it tightened up a bit. UCLA kept pounding at SC until the end (I didn't really think either team looked very good except for Betts dominance). USC looked very disjointed even in their wins. ND did look quite good but think their opponent was not as good as their ranking. UConn is a final 4 team from last year that is currently undefeated and unlike most others this early are not playing 200-300 level teams. Is UConn as good as it can be yet - not a chance but I am astonished by many on this supposedly UConn board who seem to have no faith in them.

UConn doesn't blow out teams because they can't anymore, at least not as frequently as they used to. The talent gap has narrowed quite a bit since the Stewie days.

 

[Rowdy831]

Watching the games this weekend I would rank ND above UCLA and USC. They have a fantastic guard combo and as much hype as Hildago gets I still think Miles as good as it gets in college basketball. She is so smooth and her game is like watching a chess master setting up her opponent when she is attacking the basket. ND also has a couple bigger girls to defend the paint and they hustle.

Where does that put UConn? I think UConn has better players top to bottom but they don't have any size in the game right now and that will be an issue. Janna and Ice both need to be on the floor to match up with the likes of UCLA and KK will have to be ready when they play ND. In the end though I think UConn will be the best team.

Finally I really didn't expect much from South Carolina this season. In the past couple years they were loaded and had great size. The team this weekend didn't even look similar to what they have had lately and I think they will be lucky to be a top 2 seed when the tournament roles around.

 

[Zinethar]

UConn doesn't blow out teams because they can't anymore, at least not as frequently as they used to. The talent gap has narrowed quite a bit since the Stewie days.

I totally disagree with you. F\UConn has a health Paige who seemingly can score at will who basically so far sits for about 15 monutes of a 40 minute game so that UConn can get the rest of the players up to speed. If the starters played most of the whole game like many other contenders do you would likely see 40 point wins most games. In fact you still do see 30-40 point wins. Maybe I'm wrong and UNC really get the game close on their own but I think it could have been a blowout if Geno wanted it to be.

 

[Zonepress]

UConn doesn't blow out teams because they can't anymore, at least not as frequently as they used to. The talent gap has narrowed quite a bit since the Stewie days.

I don’t think it’s clear yet. How good a team in uconn is
They seem to have all the pieces in place
They’ve only played one game that was competitive, and I would say their performance was uneven
Will certainly find out how good they are over the next four or five weeks
What is fair to say is that the Huskies? I are probably a 6-7 teams that could win a national championship
The evolution of the women’s game with more talented players than they were doing the Stuart years, the transfer portal, and nil have made it virtually impossible for one or two teams to dominate the game
If you look at the final four in 2016, where would you put Washington and Syracuse the two teams the Huskies played relative to teams out there now
They would be top 20 teams nothing more
I’m excited to see how to season plays out for this
Team as there are a very likable group and fun to watch

 

[Phil]

Wow, not a single number one vote for South Carolina.

My prediction it would be UConn was obviously wrong.

 

[Phil]

Vaulting a team ahead of the number 2 team into the number one spot hasn't happened in the last 10 years.

 

[Vowelguy]

Vaulting a team ahead of the number 2 team into the number one spot hasn't happened in the last 10 years.

How many times has a #3-5 team beaten the #1 team in the last 10 years?

 

[Phil]

How many times has a #3-5 team beaten the #1 team in the last 10 years?

On February 1, 2021, fourth-ranked NC State beat number one ranked Louisville, but NC State was not moved to the top position in fact they didn't even move up a single spot. South Carolina was moved to the top position. Does this qualify as an example?