Which schools actually belong in Division 1? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Which schools actually belong in Division 1?

billybud said:
Though it seems perception’s gone awry,

fundamental principles apply.

Healthy minds subsist on what they’re fed:

Garbage In spills Garbage Out ahead.
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The Conference Realignment board has been a decade long exercise in throwing poo against the wall and inviting others to examine it as if it were the Mona Lisa.

What exactly are you expecting?
 
Maybe..just less of the WVU Dude type fantasy....

Call me obsolete and, if you must,
set me on a shelf to gather dust,
clinging to my Pollyanna view.
that there is an order even in a zoo.
 
shizzle787 said:
William & Mary is a prestigious ex-Ivy.
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Bill & Mary never was Ivy, but the nation's 2nd oldest university certainly is well regarded. 8 Ivy League schools, now and always only located in CT, NY (2), PA, NH, NJ, RI, and MA.
 
Vowelguy said:
They don’t want to be.

Same with NESCAC
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I don't know if it's necessarily that the UAA programs don't want to be D1. They just aren't. But the NESCAC, no. No chance.
 
Start with the Elite. That number - I think the upswell is there's too many Me too's getting fed the big bucks - would be 30-40 if Texas had the veto power. There's just a element of this world that thinks they shouldn't be pulling along a bunch of these never do wells.

On the other side - Football mindset - you've just had 15 programs elevate in the last 12 years. Like Coastal Carolina, Charlotte, UTSA, App State, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, South Alabama. See where I am going. The Public drummed in by dollars and eyeballs will make the cuts and the 135 current is a fluid number.

There's a pack of dogs circling a bowl of food. The top dozen want both what's in their bowl ... and also the scrappings from the smaller portions in the other bowls. And to grow the sport so their portion is ever increasing. That is the Econ 101 of an Oligarchy. Cheating and grabbing portions beyond your due.
 
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Beyond your due?

Maybe, just maybe..those teams that have spent a century building a brand, that draw national interest, should make the money.

I love South Alabama and Georgia Southern but when they invest another 50 or more years into program building, build huge fan bases, build national interest, build competitive programs, they too, will draw enough national interest to warrant the media dollars that an Alabama or Ohio State can command. I love the dominance of South Dakota State, and that they know that they would just be another Buffalo in the higher classification.

True, the present conference system has skirt riders. A program like Indiana gets paid like Ohio State. And that is primarily a result of college football fandom and tradition. I wonder if NFL fans pull as hard for other teams in their division/league as do NCAA fans. Or place as much emphasis on cross league games.

132 teams is a ridiculous league. You can not have any semblance of parity. In strength, in interest, in resources....it must be condensed.

There is a reason that the NFL has 32 teams, not 100.

I am old enough to remember the pro football minor leagues. Heck, the older UConn goats may remember the Hartford Charter Oaks.

There were many pro minor league attempts...they all failed. The spot light gets smaller on the big stage.
 
Kenny Stabler was a local boy of sorts (town 30 miles away from mine). He played for the Spokane Shockers, a then farm team of the Oakland Raiders.
 
Pudge said:
For instance, WHY shouldn't Towson be included in your list ... as the Number 2 Public in a important state.
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I tossed it because of the name. Towson State? I'm more impressed with Framingham State.
 
Waquoit said:
I tossed it because of the name. Towson State? I'm more impressed with Framingham State.
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They must not have advertised this publicly because I thought it was still "state". Besides that, it's comparable to CCSU.

On July 1, 1997, another name change took effect. Towson dropped the designation "state" from its name and became Towson University. The new name recognized shifts in funding and the development and growth of Towson as a metropolitan university.
 
Waquoit said:
I tossed it because of the name. Towson State? I'm more impressed with Framingham State.t
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TOWSON. It actually is an impressive upscale community in Baltimore; leads into all that nice acreage north to the Pennsylvania border - like Hunt Valley. As a school it has risen quite dramatically. But my point: WHY ... CFB FBS now has all these Publics in Alabama, Georgia, NC with more to come. And here we are in the Northeast with only a handful in all of NY & NE; few in PA + NJ and Only Maryland. Equal to ALL of Alabama or NC.

We dismissively say - that kid only got recruited by FCS. We have more population demo going from DC through NE on I95 & then what is Alabama or NC?
 
.-.
Kolumbo said:
You know who should be D1 hoops? The UAA. NYU, Chicago, Emory...they all have endowments in the billions.
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Chicago was a founding member of the B-10 (called the Western Conference at the time). During the second world war an enormous amount of military government funded research was conducted there (as basically every other comparable school in the country was on one of the two coasts, making then an easier target for bombing) and to secure research funding during and beyond the war the school felt it better to minimize athletics.

They were a unique case where not having a high athletic profile was worth what today would be billions.
 
shizzle787 said:
2022 is going to be a transformative year in college sports. It is very possible by July 1, players will be getting paid for the 2022-23 school year, and a lot of schools will have to difficult decisions to make. Also-as I heard on Matt Brown's podcast-we could see a world where AQ bids go away in basketball which could cut the wheat from the chaff.

In my opinion the following types of schools should be in Division 1
A) Any state flagship that is already Division 1 (e.g. no Alaska-Fairbanks)
B) Most land grants that are already Division 1 (Oregon State, Oklahoma State, etc.)
C) Any major technical school (Georgia Tech, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech)
D) Any major city school (Pittsburgh, Louisville, Cincy, etc.)
E) Any major state directional (UCF, ECU, USF, etc.)
F) The Ivies and service academies if they should so choose
G) Major private institutions
H) Academically well-known privates
I) Other schools that have sustained success in basketball

Here are the schools by state that I think should remain Division 1 (I'm going to offend all of you so here goes):

Texas: Baylor, Houston, Rice, SMU, Stephen F. Austin, Texas A&M, Texas, TCU, UTEP, Texas Tech
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I'm going to end up being angry with myself do as asking but...

Out of curiosity how did you reach the conclusion that SFA was more deserving than UTSA?
 
FfldCntyFan said:
I'm going to end up being angry with myself do as asking but...

Out of curiosity how did you reach the conclusion that SFA was more deserving than UTSA?
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As we saw with Mike Aresco and his AAC, he valued the big demographic markets more than football traditional history or culture. So ... a Charlotte with a few years; UTSA with less than a decade; UAB in a metro area; North Texas - Florida Atlantic - Rice > than Southern Miss in Hattiesburg or Marshall in Huntington WV or Georgia Southern in Statesville.

That - I think - is a valid feasibility test over the arc of time.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
I'm going to end up being angry with myself do as asking but...

Out of curiosity how did you reach the conclusion that SFA was more deserving than UTSA?
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If there is a split in the NCAA, it will be by basketball. What division you are in is determined by basketball. Everything falls in place after that. SFA is a name that comes off the page because they are tournament regulars. UTSA is about the #11 football brand in Texas and they play in a high school basketball gym.
 
Basketball is already Division 1....with 350 schools in 32 Division 1 conferences.

There will be a much, much smaller pool of Division 1 P6 schools in football.

Maybe as few as 64 in four conferences.

I could see a cull in basketball as well....not as deep.
 
.-.
billybud said:
I did not even know that Vermont had a sports program, or Rhode Island (tongue somewhat in cheek)...down here in the deep south, we'd be more aware of Valdosta State or Georgia Southern.
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Florida State played Vermont in the NCAA tournament in 2019. (Ironically, at the XL Center in Hartford.)

 
Eavesdrop said:
Florida State played Vermont in the NCAA tournament in 2019. (Ironically, at the XL Center in Hartford.)

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Thanks....

Football is a club sport up there.....thus I had not run across the Catamounts in football.

There are many decent basketball programs where the athletic dpartment does not field an FBS/FCS football squad.
 
A couple of things here…Georgia Tech and Virginia Tech are major public universities. VaTech is I believe, the land grant university in Virginia.

You are including Howard, but not the MAC schools? Utter silliness.

You are basing this on basketball? Uh, not happening. Any new divisions will be based on football.
 
billybud said:
Beyond your due?

Maybe, just maybe..those teams that have spent a century building a brand, that draw national interest, should make the money.

I love South Alabama and Georgia Southern but when they invest another 50 or more years into program building, build huge fan bases, build national interest, build competitive programs, they too, will draw enough national interest to warrant the media dollars that an Alabama or Ohio State can command. I love the dominance of South Dakota State, and that they know that they would just be another Buffalo in the higher classification.

True, the present conference system has skirt riders. A program like Indiana gets paid like Ohio State. And that is primarily a result of college football fandom and tradition. I wonder if NFL fans pull as hard for other teams in their division/league as do NCAA fans. Or place as much emphasis on cross league games.

132 teams is a ridiculous league. You can not have any semblance of parity. In strength, in interest, in resources....it must be condensed.

There is a reason that the NFL has 32 teams, not 100.

I am old enough to remember the pro football minor leagues. Heck, the older UConn goats may remember the Hartford Charter Oaks.

There were many pro minor league attempts...they all failed. The spot light gets smaller on the big stage.
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The Charter Oaks? They were owned by Savin, IIRC!
 
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Waquoit said:
A friend of mine's cousin flunked out of Framingham.
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Funny...My childhood friend flunked out of Manchester Community College...(I flunked PoliSci in 1976 at MCC. I told the professor that I'll vote for whom I want and you can't force me to vote for Mr. Peanut. She told me never to come back.)
 
If you can meet the requirements then you should be there. It’s that simple.
 
What about Hobart? They compete in D1 lacrosse but are D3 in everything else.

Or Colorado College that competes in D1 Hockey.

Even though I respect the thought experiment your system is just a caste system. What if some school in D2 decided to spend some money and blew their peers out of the water?

If some private school with a 2000 person enrollment can swing the requirements and compete then more power to them.
 
"If can swing requirements"


It is the requirements that make the difference...GIGO.
 
billybud said:
"If can swing requirements"


It is the requirements that make the difference...GIGO.
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What level of competition you compete in shouldn’t depend on things like enrollment or meaningless “flagship” status.

The football team lost to a school with an enrollment of 3000 last year and I’m not talking about West Point.

If you raise the bar in such a way that it’s designed to only include certain types of schools then that’s probably going to be illegal.
 
billybud said:
Beyond your due?

Maybe, just maybe..those teams that have spent a century building a brand, that draw national interest, should make the money.

I love South Alabama and Georgia Southern but when they invest another 50 or more years into program building, build huge fan bases, build national interest, build competitive programs, they too, will draw enough national interest to warrant the media dollars that an Alabama or Ohio State can command. I love the dominance of South Dakota State, and that they know that they would just be another Buffalo in the higher classification.

True, the present conference system has skirt riders. A program like Indiana gets paid like Ohio State. And that is primarily a result of college football fandom and tradition. I wonder if NFL fans pull as hard for other teams in their division/league as do NCAA fans. Or place as much emphasis on cross league games.

132 teams is a ridiculous league. You can not have any semblance of parity. In strength, in interest, in resources....it must be condensed.

There is a reason that the NFL has 32 teams, not 100.

I am old enough to remember the pro football minor leagues. Heck, the older UConn goats may remember the Hartford Charter Oaks.

There were many pro minor league attempts...they all failed. The spot light gets smaller on the big stage.
Expand ...

No spending a century doesn’t entitle you to anything that you can’t negotiate for.

This is America not England.
 
.-.
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