Which schools actually belong in Division 1?

[Slasher]

In all seriousness, I think the biggest oversight is the MAC. Some of those schools have a lot of history and held in much higher regard then all those random NY schools and Iowa and Illinois schools.

Toledo, Miami (OH), Central Michigan >>> Drake, Iona, Bradley, etc.

 

[billybud]

Which are absolutely crap academic profiles ... next to a Vermont. Or a URI. The interesting thing is the budgets and largesse throughout small farm town State schools in the Southeast. Sure there's growth. But we all know that UVM - Vermont - is one of the most desirable publics in the northeastern US.

They have sports programs though ?

Maybe i think that academics doesn't move the media needle....



But Heck...make Division I..... the UNWR top ranked 60 National Universities.

What a mix...Schools like Princeton, Harvard, MIT, Dartmouth, NYU, Brown, Cornell, Emory, William and Mary, Georgetown, BU, Lehigh, Northeastern, Rennslauer Polytech, Rice, Pepperdine, Villanova, Santa Clara, Rockchester, Case Western etc...

alongside... Cal, Michigan, Georgia, Florida, FSU, Notre Dame, USC, Virginia, UNC, Duke, Wake, BC, GT, Texas, Wisconsin, Illinois, Ohio State, Purdue, Miami, Syracuse, Maryland, Pitt, Washington. Rice, Tulane

Notables not in the academic Top 60 Division I....Penn State, Rutgers, UConn, Indiiana, Alabama, Texas A&M, SMU, Minnesota, Baylor, Clemson, VT, BYU, Gonzaga, NC State, Michigan State, Iowa, TCU, Auburn, Colorado, Oregon, Utah, USF, Tennessee, South Carolina....and Vermont (# 117).

 

[Chin Diesel]

Putting Hofstra, Fordham and Iona on a list of schools who should be D1 puts the whole list in to question. Then adding UNH, UVM and Maine makes it worse. South Dakota and North Dakota both get two schools? Ouch.

Using men's basketball as the sole arbiter of whether a school can or should support top level athletics is a bad metric which is why it's a bad list.

I'm fairly certain if each of us had to draw up a set of criteria and then fill the schools which met those criteria, we'd all have something different.

The problem with the OP's list is the criteria. Based on a flawed set of requirements, the list is good. But it's GIGO all day long.

 

[billybud]

Though it seems perception’s gone awry,

fundamental principles apply.

Healthy minds subsist on what they’re fed:

Garbage In spills Garbage Out ahead.

 

[Kolumbo]

In all seriousness, I think the biggest oversight is the MAC. Some of those schools have a lot of history and held in much higher regard then all those random NY schools and Iowa and Illinois schools.

Toledo, Miami (OH), Central Michigan >>> Drake, Iona, Bradley, etc.

Agreed, the MAC belongs. All large public U's and I'm biased toward public U's, especially over the likes of tiny private schools like St. Bonnie or Davidson. "The conference ranks highest among all ten NCAA Division I FBS conferences for graduation rates.[1]"

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Though it seems perception’s gone awry,

fundamental principles apply.

Healthy minds subsist on what they’re fed:

Garbage In spills Garbage Out ahead.

The Conference Realignment board has been a decade long exercise in throwing poo against the wall and inviting others to examine it as if it were the Mona Lisa.

What exactly are you expecting?

 

[billybud]

Maybe..just less of the WVU Dude type fantasy....

Call me obsolete and, if you must,
set me on a shelf to gather dust,
clinging to my Pollyanna view.
that there is an order even in a zoo.

 

[Vowelguy]

You know who should be D1 hoops? The UAA. NYU, Chicago, Emory...they all have endowments in the billions.

They don’t want to be.

Same with NESCAC

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

William & Mary is a prestigious ex-Ivy.

Bill & Mary never was Ivy, but the nation's 2nd oldest university certainly is well regarded. 8 Ivy League schools, now and always only located in CT, NY (2), PA, NH, NJ, RI, and MA.

 

[Kolumbo]

They don’t want to be.

Same with NESCAC

I don't know if it's necessarily that the UAA programs don't want to be D1. They just aren't. But the NESCAC, no. No chance.

 

[Pudge]

Start with the Elite. That number - I think the upswell is there's too many Me too's getting fed the big bucks - would be 30-40 if Texas had the veto power. There's just a element of this world that thinks they shouldn't be pulling along a bunch of these never do wells.

On the other side - Football mindset - you've just had 15 programs elevate in the last 12 years. Like Coastal Carolina, Charlotte, UTSA, App State, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, South Alabama. See where I am going. The Public drummed in by dollars and eyeballs will make the cuts and the 135 current is a fluid number.

There's a pack of dogs circling a bowl of food. The top dozen want both what's in their bowl ... and also the scrappings from the smaller portions in the other bowls. And to grow the sport so their portion is ever increasing. That is the Econ 101 of an Oligarchy. Cheating and grabbing portions beyond your due.

 

[billybud]

Beyond your due?

Maybe, just maybe..those teams that have spent a century building a brand, that draw national interest, should make the money.

I love South Alabama and Georgia Southern but when they invest another 50 or more years into program building, build huge fan bases, build national interest, build competitive programs, they too, will draw enough national interest to warrant the media dollars that an Alabama or Ohio State can command. I love the dominance of South Dakota State, and that they know that they would just be another Buffalo in the higher classification.

True, the present conference system has skirt riders. A program like Indiana gets paid like Ohio State. And that is primarily a result of college football fandom and tradition. I wonder if NFL fans pull as hard for other teams in their division/league as do NCAA fans. Or place as much emphasis on cross league games.

132 teams is a ridiculous league. You can not have any semblance of parity. In strength, in interest, in resources....it must be condensed.

There is a reason that the NFL has 32 teams, not 100.

I am old enough to remember the pro football minor leagues. Heck, the older UConn goats may remember the Hartford Charter Oaks.

There were many pro minor league attempts...they all failed. The spot light gets smaller on the big stage.

 

[billybud]

Kenny Stabler was a local boy of sorts (town 30 miles away from mine). He played for the Spokane Shockers, a then farm team of the Oakland Raiders.

 

[Waquoit]

For instance, WHY shouldn't Towson be included in your list ... as the Number 2 Public in a important state.

I tossed it because of the name. Towson State? I'm more impressed with Framingham State.

 

[Kolumbo]

I tossed it because of the name. Towson State? I'm more impressed with Framingham State.

They must not have advertised this publicly because I thought it was still "state". Besides that, it's comparable to CCSU.

On July 1, 1997, another name change took effect. Towson dropped the designation "state" from its name and became Towson University. The new name recognized shifts in funding and the development and growth of Towson as a metropolitan university.

 

[HuskyDogArt]

I tossed it because of the name. Towson State? I'm more impressed with Framingham State.

I hope you're joking..

 

[Pudge]

I tossed it because of the name. Towson State? I'm more impressed with Framingham State.t

TOWSON. It actually is an impressive upscale community in Baltimore; leads into all that nice acreage north to the Pennsylvania border - like Hunt Valley. As a school it has risen quite dramatically. But my point: WHY ... CFB FBS now has all these Publics in Alabama, Georgia, NC with more to come. And here we are in the Northeast with only a handful in all of NY & NE; few in PA + NJ and Only Maryland. Equal to ALL of Alabama or NC.

We dismissively say - that kid only got recruited by FCS. We have more population demo going from DC through NE on I95 & then what is Alabama or NC?

 

[FfldCntyFan]

You know who should be D1 hoops? The UAA. NYU, Chicago, Emory...they all have endowments in the billions.

Chicago was a founding member of the B-10 (called the Western Conference at the time). During the second world war an enormous amount of military government funded research was conducted there (as basically every other comparable school in the country was on one of the two coasts, making then an easier target for bombing) and to secure research funding during and beyond the war the school felt it better to minimize athletics.

They were a unique case where not having a high athletic profile was worth what today would be billions.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

2022 is going to be a transformative year in college sports. It is very possible by July 1, players will be getting paid for the 2022-23 school year, and a lot of schools will have to difficult decisions to make. Also-as I heard on Matt Brown's podcast-we could see a world where AQ bids go away in basketball which could cut the wheat from the chaff.

In my opinion the following types of schools should be in Division 1
A) Any state flagship that is already Division 1 (e.g. no Alaska-Fairbanks)
B) Most land grants that are already Division 1 (Oregon State, Oklahoma State, etc.)
C) Any major technical school (Georgia Tech, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech)
D) Any major city school (Pittsburgh, Louisville, Cincy, etc.)
E) Any major state directional (UCF, ECU, USF, etc.)
F) The Ivies and service academies if they should so choose
G) Major private institutions
H) Academically well-known privates
I) Other schools that have sustained success in basketball

Here are the schools by state that I think should remain Division 1 (I'm going to offend all of you so here goes):

Texas: Baylor, Houston, Rice, SMU, Stephen F. Austin, Texas A&M, Texas, TCU, UTEP, Texas Tech

I'm going to end up being angry with myself do as asking but...

Out of curiosity how did you reach the conclusion that SFA was more deserving than UTSA?

 

[Pudge]

I'm going to end up being angry with myself do as asking but...

Out of curiosity how did you reach the conclusion that SFA was more deserving than UTSA?

As we saw with Mike Aresco and his AAC, he valued the big demographic markets more than football traditional history or culture. So ... a Charlotte with a few years; UTSA with less than a decade; UAB in a metro area; North Texas - Florida Atlantic - Rice > than Southern Miss in Hattiesburg or Marshall in Huntington WV or Georgia Southern in Statesville.

That - I think - is a valid feasibility test over the arc of time.

 

[shizzle787]

I'm going to end up being angry with myself do as asking but...

Out of curiosity how did you reach the conclusion that SFA was more deserving than UTSA?

If there is a split in the NCAA, it will be by basketball. What division you are in is determined by basketball. Everything falls in place after that. SFA is a name that comes off the page because they are tournament regulars. UTSA is about the #11 football brand in Texas and they play in a high school basketball gym.

 

[billybud]

Basketball is already Division 1....with 350 schools in 32 Division 1 conferences.

There will be a much, much smaller pool of Division 1 P6 schools in football.

Maybe as few as 64 in four conferences.

I could see a cull in basketball as well....not as deep.

 

[Waquoit]

I hope you're joking..

What do you have against Framingham?

 

[HuskyDogArt]

What do you have against Framingham?

Nothing...A friend of mine played for Framingham in soccer back in the late 70s.

 

[Waquoit]

Nothing...A friend of mine played for Framingham in soccer back in the late 70s.

A friend of mine's cousin flunked out of Framingham.