Which schools actually belong in Division 1?

[shizzle787]

2022 is going to be a transformative year in college sports. It is very possible by July 1, players will be getting paid for the 2022-23 school year, and a lot of schools will have to difficult decisions to make. Also-as I heard on Matt Brown's podcast-we could see a world where AQ bids go away in basketball which could cut the wheat from the chaff.

In my opinion the following types of schools should be in Division 1
A) Any state flagship that is already Division 1 (e.g. no Alaska-Fairbanks)
B) Most land grants that are already Division 1 (Oregon State, Oklahoma State, etc.)
C) Any major technical school (Georgia Tech, Texas Tech, Virginia Tech)
D) Any major city school (Pittsburgh, Louisville, Cincy, etc.)
E) Any major state directional (UCF, ECU, USF, etc.)
F) The Ivies and service academies if they should so choose
G) Major private institutions
H) Academically well-known privates
I) Other schools that have sustained success in basketball

Here are the schools by state that I think should remain Division 1 (I'm going to offend all of you so here goes):

Alabama: Alabama, UAB, Auburn
Arizona: Arizona, Arizona State
Arkansas: Arkansas, Arkansas State
California: California, UCLA, Fresno State, Loyola Marymount, Pepperdine, St. Mary's, San Diego State, San Francisco, San Jose State, Santa Clara, USC, Stanford
Colorado: Colorado, Colorado State, Denver, Air Force
Connecticut: Connecticut, Yale
Delaware: Delaware
District of Columbia: George Washington, Georgetown, Howard
Florida: UCF, Florida, Florida State, Miami, South Florida
Georgia: Georgia, Georgia Tech, Georgia State
Hawaii: Hawaii
Idaho: Boise State, Idaho
Illinois: Bradley, DePaul, Illinois, Illinois State, Loyola, Northern Illinois, Northwestern, Southern Illinois
Indiana: Butler, Indiana, Indiana State, Notre Dame, Purdue
Iowa: Drake, Iowa, Iowa State, Northern Iowa
Kansas: Kansas, Kansas State, Wichita State
Kentucky: Kentucky, Louisville, Murray State, Western Kentucky
Louisiana: Grambling State, Louisiana, LSU, LaTech, Southern, Tulane
Maine: Maine
Maryland: Loyola, Maryland, Navy
Massachusetts: BC, BU, Harvard, Holy Cross, UMass, Northeastern
Michigan: Michigan, Michigan State
Minnesota: Minnesota
Mississippi: Jackson State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Southern Miss
Missouri: Missouri, Missouri State, St. Louis
Montana: Montana, Montana State
Nebraska: Creighton, Nebraska
Nevada: Nevada, UNLV
New Hampshire: Dartmouth, New Hampshire
New Jersey: Monmouth, Princeton, Rutgers, Seton Hall
New Mexico: New Mexico, New Mexico State
New York: Buffalo, Columbia, Cornell, Fordham, Hofstra, Iona, St. Bonaventure, St. John's, Stony Brook, Syracuse, Army
North Carolina: Appalachian State, Davidson, Duke, East Carolina, UNC, Charlotte, NC State, Wake Forest
North Dakota: North Dakota, North Dakota State
Ohio: Cincinnati, Dayton, Ohio, Ohio State, Xavier
Oklahoma: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Tulsa
Oregon: Oregon, Oregon State
Pennsylvania: Drexel, Penn, Penn State, Pittsburgh, St. Joseph's, Temple, Villanova
Rhode Island: Brown, Providence, Rhode Island
South Carolina: College of Charleston, Clemson, Coastal Carolina, South Carolina
South Dakota: South Dakota, South Dakota State
Tennessee: Belmont, Memphis, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Texas: Baylor, Houston, Rice, SMU, Stephen F. Austin, Texas A&M, Texas, TCU, UTEP, Texas Tech
Utah: BYU, Utah, Utah State
Vermont: Vermont
Virginia: George Mason, Hampton, James Madison, Liberty, Old Dominion, Richmond, Virginia, VCU, Virginia Tech, William & Mary
Washington: Gonzaga, Washington, Washington State
West Virginia: Marshall, West Virginia
Wisconsin: Marquette, Wisconsin
Wyoming: Wyoming

Close but no cigar: FAU, FIU, Evansville, Valparaiso, Morehead State, Towson, Bucknell, Winthrop, North Texas, Quinnipiac

Just made it in: San Jose State, NIU, SIU, UNI, College of Charleston

Total schools remaining in Division 1: 187. March Madness would still exist in its current form:

Division 1-A schools: 113 (12-team playoff)
Division 1-AA schools: 42 (8-team playoff)
Non-football schools: 32

 

[storrsroars]

The Michigan directionals don't make the cut? Seems they're more deserving than some in your D1 list.

 

[shizzle787]

The Michigan directionals don't make the cut? Seems they're more deserving than some in your D1 list.

They were on the bubble. My problem with them is that they are state directionals that don't have well-known brands nationally (USF, UCF, ECU, etc.). To be fair, I left North Texas out and FIU and FAU as well. The MAC IMO should have never been FBS to begin with.

 

[Pudge]

From memory, there are 11 FBS schools in Texas now; 8 in Alabama & Ohio & Florida. 7 in California & NC. The last 10 years has created a distinct mishmosh of loads in the Southeast and narrowing in other regions - Coastal and bigger demo's.

For instance, WHY shouldn't Towson be included in your list ... as the Number 2 Public in a important state. When you have so many in NC? VA? The Privates are gonna have a hard time keeping up unless they have something special. Which pulls you into this discussion: Fanbase. This is what starts a criteria. Why should D1 Hoop teams that cannot draw 3000 (even though their arena holds 14000) stay.

The other thing that irks me about this kinda look? You don't have any notion of the future. Where these schools are gonna be in 2035. Some schools - Publics - are growing from 8000 enrollment to 20000 and you have never heard of them. Frankly, that's why USF and UCF rose so quick. Suddenly they were Giants.

 

[shizzle787]

From memory, there are 11 FBS schools in Texas now; 8 in Alabama & Ohio & Florida. 7 in California & NC. The last 10 years has created a distinct mishmosh of loads in the Southeast and narrowing in other regions - Coastal and bigger demo's.

For instance, WHY shouldn't Towson be included in your list ... as the Number 2 Public in a important state. When you have so many in NC? VA? The Privates are gonna have a hard time keeping up unless they have something special. Which pulls you into this discussion: Fanbase. This is what starts a criteria. Why should D1 Hoop teams that cannot draw 3000 (even though their arena holds 14000) stay.

This was a thought provoking exercise for sure. Some states were very easy (see the last four on the list). Others were more difficult (like Maryland, Michigan, Texas, California, and a few others). Towson was on the bubble btw.

 

[Pudge]

This was a thought provoking exercise for sure. Some states were very easy (see the last four on the list). Others were more difficult (like Maryland, Michigan, Texas, California, and a few others). Towson was on the bubble btw.

I am not telling State legislatures how to act. But there are anomalies. My mind cannot get past the SUNY discussion whereby by State Law there could be no athletic scholarships before 1988. Think how that pushed their ADs to this very day as the Governor announces Stony Brook & Buffalo as Flagships - which comes with new found capital to improve everything including BRAND. Which means Sports marketing. Capital Spending and Improvements. Then how Syracuse was assisted to that stature for decades. The State helped fund the Carrier Dome in 1974. That ain't happening again.

There are AAU research institutions that don't make your list that are Publics - SUNY and UC. So you have podunk farm community State U Sam Houston State from Texas elevating or Jacksonville State in Alabama ... but NOT top notch full research Universities. Prestige academics should matter: other Universities want to associate with them.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

I am not telling State legislatures how to act. But there are anomalies. My mind cannot get past the SUNY discussion whereby by State Law there could be no athletic scholarships before 1988. Think how that pushed their ADs to this very day as the Governor announces Stony Brook & Buffalo as Flagships - which comes with new found capital to improve everything including BRAND. Which means Sports marketing. Capital Spending and Improvements. Then how Syracuse was assisted to that stature for decades. The State helped fund the Carrier Dome in 1974. That ain't happening again.

There are AAU research institutions that don't make your list that are Publics - SUNY and UC. So you have podunk farm community State U Sam Houston State from Texas elevating or Jacksonville State in Alabama ... but NOT top notch full research Universities. Prestige academics should matter: other Universities want to associate with them.

So wouldn't they associate with them in AAU, etc but not NCAA?

 

[billybud]

I don't know about the cut lines...

Why would not FAU and FIU be on the list while Hampton and William and Mary (who has never played in the NCAA Tournament) or Davidson are? Or why not Gulf Coast University (a sweet 16 team seven tournaments back).

 

[shizzle787]

I don't know about the cut lines...

Why would not FAU and FIU be on the list while Hampton and William and Mary (who has never played in the NCAA Tournament) or Davidson are? Or why not Gulf Coast University (a sweet 16 team seven tournaments back).

FAU and FIU have no brand. FGCU is a branch school. Davidson is a well-known private. William & Mary is a prestigious ex-Ivy.

 

[billybud]

LOL Have no brand?

Depends on where you are....

And if you are talking basketball only...

 

[shizzle787]

LOL Have no brand?

Depends on where you are....

Nationally

 

[billybud]

Any conference formation in the future will be based on football....

I'd restrict FBS to a manageable Tier I of 64 (four conferences of 16)....

Let the Honchos make the choices based on brand, athletic budget, etc.

Have a Tier II of 64...four conferences of 16..

Tier I Playoff...Tier II Playoff, FCS Playoff.

 

[billybud]

I did not even know that Vermont had a sports program, or Rhode Island (tongue somewhat in cheek)...down here in the deep south, we'd be more aware of Valdosta State or Georgia Southern.

 

[shizzle787]

Any conference formation in the future will be based on football....

I'd restrict FBS to a manageable Tier I of 64 (four conferences of 16)....

Let the Honchos make the choices based on brand, athletic budget, etc.

Have a Tier II of 64...four conferences of 16..

Tier I Playoff...Tier II Playoff, FCS Playoff.

Disagree. The fight is about NCAA tournament money distribution. Your division is determined by where you play basketball. Every other sport falls in place after that.

 

[billybud]

I could see the reapportioning of Tournament money. But teams will not be relegated to all-sports divisions based on basketball.

Base the amount distributed as it is now, to teams/conferences based on their rolling win count in the tournament..(after deduction of tournament expenses).

 

[Viet Vet]

Philadelphia's Big Five without La Salle? Ouch!

 

[Kolumbo]

I am not telling State legislatures how to act. But there are anomalies. My mind cannot get past the SUNY discussion whereby by State Law there could be no athletic scholarships before 1988. Think how that pushed their ADs to this very day as the Governor announces Stony Brook & Buffalo as Flagships - which comes with new found capital to improve everything including BRAND. Which means Sports marketing. Capital Spending and Improvements. Then how Syracuse was assisted to that stature for decades. The State helped fund the Carrier Dome in 1974. That ain't happening again.

There are AAU research institutions that don't make your list that are Publics - SUNY and UC. So you have podunk farm community State U Sam Houston State from Texas elevating or Jacksonville State in Alabama ... but NOT top notch full research Universities. Prestige academics should matter: other Universities want to associate with them.

Great list and effort, fo shizzle.

NY is the most intriguing. 4th most populous state. Professional sports abound. 11 universities on this list and only one from the sewer known as syracuse gets a piece of the football pie. The SUNY system certainly missed out on the public college payday. su gets all that p5 money and its two flagships get butkus.

 

[UConnJim]

Your list is based on history and not on the present and future. Many schools in the South and West are growing rapidly while some schools in the North and East are not growing. Your list excludes 12 of the top 50 US colleges based on enrollment. (Not all of them want to be D1.) Why should they be excluded? Athletics on many of these campuses are growing or are about to grow. Look at Grand Canyon (25k on campus, 115k total) and averages 7.2k for basketball.

 

[ecasadoSBU]

This is gonna be tough. And a lot fans are gonna be hurt.

Its sad that the NCAA is on the verge of drastic changes. They had to happen. But its sad anyway. The NCAA is a victim of its own success. Once the money grew the association became increasingly unstable. Oh well

 

[SubbaBub]

You must be talking about BB. In FB there should be about 50 teams who can support a program without the big-time media money. That should be your test.

Getting it right would literally take an act of Congress.

 

[Kolumbo]

You know who should be D1 hoops? The UAA. NYU, Chicago, Emory...they all have endowments in the billions.

 

[Pudge]

I did not even know that Vermont had a sports program, or Rhode Island (tongue somewhat in cheek)...down here in the deep south, we'd be more aware of Valdosta State or Georgia Southern.]

Which are absolutely crap academic profiles ... next to a Vermont. Or a URI. The interesting thing is the budgets and largesse throughout small farm town State schools in the Southeast. Sure there's growth. But we all know that UVM - Vermont - is one of the most desirable publics in the northeastern US.

 

[Purple Stein]

CCSU isn’t a major directional? The humanity!

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

CCSU isn’t a major directional? The humanity!

I know you had sarc on, but isn't central the definition of non-directional? ~

 

[Slasher]

What do you have against the MAC? You basically just gutted the MACTION!