Which school will be next to get a P5 invite?

[specialisthusky]

Can you stop referring to the Acc network as if its an actual thing that generates money like the big ten network? The Acc Network isthe result of a collection of sublicensing deals to regional channels and is exactly what the big east network was. If the Acc included UCONN it would receive more for the tier 3 rights games sublicensed to these regional networks. Demand will increase among yes sny and nesn thus sublicensing contracts will increase.

 

[upstater]

Great explain to me how adding Uconn brings in excess of $20million a year to the ACC? You may not think much of BC or Cuse but apparently ESPN did to give the ACC a increase in rights fees and get the ACC network covered throughout the Northeast and thats a fact not a opinion that you have.

Maybe Uconn would have brought more money than BC or Cuse but the fact is that both of those teams are currently in the ACC, we arent kicking them out so to add Uconn in addition to those 2 means that Uconn will have to add more than $20 million a year in revenue to the ACC to both pay for their equal share and to increase it above and beyond what they are already guaranteed to get. THATS THE ARGUMENT!

The B1G's addition of Rutgers and UMD is a bet. If cable stays bundled and they get the B1G added in those areas, yes the B1G will have made a smart move and get more revenue than the ACC. If cable goes a la carte, the B1G made a stupid move because those schools wont pay for themselves. Time will tell on that move but its really premature to say that the B1G has eaten our lunch yet.

We already know the story of BC (and the fact that no one watches them, and the fact that Swofford thought he was doing something in Boston by grabbing them) and how they worked to keep UConn out. No big news there.

SNY went from 1.60 per subscriber to 2.50 per subscriber in CT after they added UConn's tier 3 sports. AND, they went from being offered on a sports package to BASIC cable on all systems. The penetration of UConn sports in the market (29th DMA nationally, but 1/3rd are included in NYC's DMA, which would make it the 20th nationally) is very high, much higher than the other schools you added. UConn's licensing and Third Tier revenue is $24.8 million, double Cuse, Rutgers, Pitt, and higher than Louisville's $16m. Here are other things to consider. Look at this:

http://syracusefan.com/threads/looks-like-the-prov-game-will-be-tape-delayed.40752/

AND:

 

[larryredbull]

Can you stop referring to the Acc network as if its an actual thing that generates money like the big ten network? The Acc Network isthe result of a collection of sublicensing deals to regional channels and is exactly what the big east network was. If the Acc included UCONN it would receive more for the tier 3 rights games sublicensed to these regional networks. Demand will increase among yes sny and nesn thus sublicensing contracts will increase.

Which is what ESPN pays the ACC for. Yes I have agreed demand will increase, my argument is that it won't increase enough to add another member.

Since we are planning to start an ACC network, it might be real in the future.

 

[larryredbull]

We already know the story of BC (and the fact that no one watches them, and the fact that Swofford thought he was doing something in Boston by grabbing them) and how they worked to keep UConn out. No big news there.

SNY went from 1.60 per subscriber to 2.50 per subscriber in CT after they added UConn's tier 3 sports. AND, they went from being offered on a sports package to BASIC cable on all systems. The penetration of UConn sports in the market (29th DMA nationally, but 1/3rd are included in NYC's DMA, which would make it the 20th nationally) is very high, much higher than the other schools you added. UConn's licensing and Third Tier revenue is $24.8 million, double Cuse, Rutgers, Pitt, and higher than Louisville's $16m. Here are other things to consider. Look at this:

http://syracusefan.com/threads/looks-like-the-prov-game-will-be-tape-delayed.40752/

AND:

No argument on BC. They are leaches on the ACC.

http://courantblogs.com/uconn-footb...es/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

From your on site, it looks like SNY isnt showing Uconn games any more. Even if 100% of the population of CT (3.59 mil) was paying $2.50 to see Uconn on TV, that would only be $8.97 mill, not enough to cover the $20 million break even point.

Again, adding Uconn doesnt bring enough money to the table to justify another addition.

 

[specialisthusky]

Which is what ESPN pays the ACC for. Yes I have agreed demand will increase, my argument is that it won't increase enough to add another member.

Since we are planning to start an ACC network, it might be real in the future.

So every school in the Acc commands 20 million? I'd venture to say that is an average being brought down by schools like wake ncst bc Pitt etc. an addition has to increase the average payout which UCONN would have no problem doing.

 

[ctchamps]

So every school in the Acc commands 20 million? I'd venture to say that is an average being brought down by schools like wake ncst bc Pitt etc. an addition has to increase the average payout which UCONN would have no problem doing.

Add in Duke! BB equivalent to UConn. Football equivalent to UConn maybe less. Besides larry's argument is just cable subscription. He's missing ad revenues.

 

[larryredbull]

So every school in the Acc commands 20 million? I'd venture to say that is an average being brought down by schools like wake ncst bc Pitt etc. an addition has to increase the average payout which UCONN would have no problem doing.

Wake and ncst are charter members, not sure what would happen if they were picked today. Since ncst was rumored to be a target for the SEC so I assume they are carrying heir weight. I doubt if conferences were redrafted that wake would be in the ACC but conferences don't usually kick out members. I have already told you how I feel about BC. Pitt put us into the PA region that we weren't really in before so yes, I would expect that Pitt is paying their way.

Again BC and Cuse already put us in the NE TV sets, yes Uconn would bring additional viewers in CT but there just arent enough paying customers in CT to add enough value to add another team.

In hindsight I beleive that Swoff would have added Uconn instead of BC if he were able to do it again but we cant kick BC out.

 

[larryredbull]

Add in Duke! BB equivalent to UConn. Football equivalent to UConn maybe less. Besides larry's argument is just cable subscription. He's missing ad revenues.

Again, a charter member. We arent redrafting conferences. The ACC has to work with what its got. Duke isnt a slouch either their BB team is more of a national brand than Uconn.

 

[NickyNewark]

Good thing for us ND is never coming in at 15 I guess. USF over UCONN to the Acc would make even less sense than Rutgers finding a life raft before us. I find that hard to believe. At a certain point Uva and unc are going to want flagships not the 5th best Florida state school whose football program is even worse than ours.

I don't think the other Florida school would want to have another instate school as a recruiting rival?Sorta like why would OSU want to bring Cinncy into the B1G?UConn stands on their own merits athletically and academically!

 

[specialisthusky]

Wake and ncst are charter members, not sure what would happen if they were picked today. Since ncst was rumored to be a target for the SEC so I assume they are carrying heir weight. I doubt if conferences were redrafted that wake would be in the ACC but conferences don't usually kick out members. I have already told you how I feel about BC. Pitt put us into the PA region that we weren't really in before so yes, I would expect that Pitt is paying their way.

Again BC and Cuse already put us in the NE TV sets, yes Uconn would bring additional viewers in CT but there just arent enough paying customers in CT to add enough value to add another team.

In hindsight I beleive that Swoff would have added Uconn instead of BC if he were able to do it again but we cant kick BC out.

You are not grasping basic economics and deflecting any points being made to counter your rediculous statement that UConn needs to bring in an additional 20 million dollars through tier three rights to have enough value for the ACC. No one is talking about kicking people out, no one is talking about rewriting expansion history. Simply put, UConn DOES have enough value in the ACC's revenue model.

 

[ctchamps]

Again, a charter member. We arent redrafting conferences. The ACC has to work with what its got. Duke isnt a slouch either their BB team is more of a national brand than Uconn.

Point is that by your evaluation of value (cable subscription) most of the ACC schools aren't carrying their own weight. So why is ESPN paying them the monies? It's because cable subscription is only part of the revenues ESPN generates.

UConn has all of CT, a good chunk of Mass and RI and a decent share of downstate NY. It competes easily with eyeballs in comparison with most of the ACC teams who have viewership divided with the SEC in the SEC's prohibitive favor or in the two states they are not in competition with the SEC, between themselves. You will have to take our word that BC was a little sister to UConn even when it was in the BE.

 

[larryredbull]

You are not grasping basic economics and deflecting any points being made to counter your rediculous statement that UConn needs to bring in an additional 20 million dollars through tier three rights to have enough value for the ACC. No one is talking about kicking people out, no one is talking about rewriting expansion history. Simply put, UConn DOES have enough value in the ACC's revenue model.

Yes I am. Your inflating why Uconn is valuable to the ACC. If ESPN only pays us $15 mill more a year for adding Uconn, then the avg payout per team drops because Uconn would get a equal share. Thats basic economics. $20 mill is the new number that the ACC will get hence, the ACC needs ESPN to at least pay us $20 mill more a year to break even.

Kicking temas out? Other posters are questioning how wake ncst, and Duke are paying their way. All of these are charter members and arent leaving the ACC. We are talking about new additions.

 

[larryredbull]

Point is that by your evaluation of value (cable subscription) most of the ACC schools aren't carrying their own weight. So why is ESPN paying them the monies? It's because cable subscription is only part of the revenues ESPN generates.

UConn has all of CT, a good chunk of Mass and RI and a decent share of downstate NY. It competes easily with eyeballs in comparison with most of the ACC teams who have viewership divided with the SEC in the SEC's prohibitive favor or in the two states they are not in competition with the SEC, between themselves. You will have to take our word that BC was a little sister to UConn even when it was in the BE.

You don't have to convince me on BC. Terrible move by the ACC. Again, hindsight, Uconn over BC would have been the better move. However, ESPN is paying us something for BC being in the conference and ESPN believes that they get the ACC in the NE market. With BC already in, Uconn would have to add even more to the pie which I dont believe that they do.

 

[upstater]

No argument on BC. They are leaches on the ACC.

http://courantblogs.com/uconn-footb...es/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

From your on site, it looks like SNY isnt showing Uconn games any more. Even if 100% of the population of CT (3.59 mil) was paying $2.50 to see Uconn on TV, that would only be $8.97 mill, not enough to cover the $20 million break even point.

Again, adding Uconn doesnt bring enough money to the table to justify another addition.

Holy cow, you made the same mistake again. SNY is tier 3!!! Not total rights. You just flushed UConn's national games right down the toilet. UConn men's bball alone is on 16 times on ESPN, CBS and ESPN2. More than any of the schools mentioned in this discussion (Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt, etc.). That's not even counting the ESPNU and CBS SN games. We're talking a handful of games for SNY, that's it.

And the Hartford Courant reporter was wrong. There are multiple games on SNY.

 

[upstater]

You don't have to convince me on BC. Terrible move by the ACC. Again, hindsight, Uconn over BC would have been the better move. However, ESPN is paying us something for BC being in the conference and ESPN believes that they get the ACC in the NE market. With BC already in, Uconn would have to add even more to the pie which I dont believe that they do.

You're not grasping the differences between tier 3 and tier 1 and 2 rights. You're just not getting it.

Look at UConn's licensing revenues and tier 3 money, and compare them to the schools we're talking about.

 

[ctchamps]

You don't have to convince me on BC. Terrible move by the ACC. Again, hindsight, Uconn over BC would have been the better move. However, ESPN is paying us something for BC being in the conference and ESPN believes that they get the ACC in the NE market. With BC already in, Uconn would have to add even more to the pie which I dont believe that they do.

Every year shows get canceled from every network providing content. They may be in every market but if no one is tuning into the show advertisers don't pay. It isn't just being in a market that gives a university value. People have to want to tune in. Being in NE with BC is not terrific for ESPN if all ESPN is getting are NE crickets. People in this forum are postulating that the best chance for BC to get viewership to take advantage of the NE region is to give BC a potential rival. The additive of BC and UConn far outweighs what each individually could bring. We're arguing the same with Rutgers in the B!G.

 

[larryredbull]

Holy cow, you made the same mistake again. SNY is tier 3!!! Not total rights. You just flushed UConn's national games right down the toilet. UConn men's bball alone is on 16 times on ESPN, CBS and ESPN2. More than any of the schools mentioned in this discussion (Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt, etc.). That's not even counting the ESPNU and CBS SN games. We're talking a handful of games for SNY, that's it.

And the Hartford Courant reporter was wrong. There are multiple games on SNY.

Ok, through the AAC your getting a fat $2mill a year for your 16 games. Thats about $18 mill short!!

I have no doubt that Uconn is worth more than $2mill and the reason you have 16 games is out of the new AAC, Uconn and cincy are the only real valuable teams for TV. That still doesnt convince me that Uconn is worth more than $20mil to that ACC.

Obviously since the ACC, B1G, and ESPN isnt knocking down Uconn's door to sign them up, they are of the same opinion.

 

[specialisthusky]

Ok, through the AAC your getting a fat $2mill a year for your 16 games. Thats about $18 mill short!!

I have no doubt that Uconn is worth more than $2mill and the reason you have 16 games is out of the new AAC, Uconn and cincy are the only real valuable teams for TV. That still doesnt convince me that Uconn is worth more than $20mil to that ACC.

Obviously since the ACC, B1G, and ESPN isnt knocking down Uconn's door to sign them up, they are of the same opinion.

Convenient excuse and completely ignores the fact Acc targeted UCONN with Syracuse. I give you credit for sticking to your argument, but you are wrong on this one.

 

[larryredbull]

Convenient excuse and completely ignores the fact Acc targeted UCONN with Syracuse. I give you credit for sticking to your argument, but you are wrong on this one.

So far Im right. If Uconn gets added to the ACC or B1G, then you will be right.

The caveat would be if ND decides to join the ACC (or B1G) or the Big12 implodes. Uconn would be a viable 16th candidate. Its my belief that the ACC wont move unless one of those 2 things happen.

 

[upstater]

Ok, through the AAC your getting a fat $2mill a year for your 16 games. Thats about $18 mill short!!

I have no doubt that Uconn is worth more than $2mill and the reason you have 16 games is out of the new AAC, Uconn and cincy are the only real valuable teams for TV. That still doesnt convince me that Uconn is worth more than $20mil to that ACC.

Obviously since the ACC, B1G, and ESPN isnt knocking down Uconn's door to sign them up, they are of the same opinion.

Who cares what convinces you?

I'm giving you real stats. Not fantasies.

 

[d1reality]

I love these definitive statements as if you know something... Realignment was done when ND left the BE (supposedly).
As long as a conference can make more money per school through addition, they will expand. That means schools need to be available that can raise the per diem.

Nobody knows what the next steps are, or when the next chips will fall. I would venture to say that change is the only constant.

What I do know is that there is no expansion talk by the B1G and ACC. The SEC isn't even sniffing.

""As long as a conference can make more money per school through addition, they will expand. That means schools need to be available that can raise the per diem."" Exactly my point!

 

[upstater]

What I do know is that there is no expansion talk by the B1G and ACC. The SEC isn't even sniffing.

""As long as a conference can make more money per school through addition, they will expand. That means schools need to be available that can raise the per diem."" Exactly my point!

Per diem does not mean what people think it means.

 

[billybud]

The Big 12 has said it as clear as it can be said....

Bob Bowlsby Big 12 Commissioner..

"If expansion occurs, Bowlsby said officials would prefer to target members that could generate the same $26 million per school in revenues that the Big 12 is projected to distribute in June from bowls, TV revenues and NCAA Tournament appearances. How many schools can do that?
"Not very many," Bowlsby said."

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/0...could-be-on-big-12-horizon.html#storylink=cpy​

 

[upstater]

The Big 12 has said it as clear as it can be said....

Bob Bowlsby Big 12 Commissioner..

"If expansion occurs, Bowlsby said officials would prefer to target members that could generate the same $26 million per school in revenues that the Big 12 is projected to distribute in June from bowls, TV revenues and NCAA Tournament appearances. How many schools can do that?
"Not very many," Bowlsby said."

​

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/0...could-be-on-big-12-horizon.html#storylink=cpy​

And this has what to do with what?

if you're putting this up here to back up the troll, your positions have a fundamental contradiction and inconsistency.

You're saying schools get added because of the bottom line. Yet the troll is denigrating BC here while also touting how the conference made more money in increased contracts. You can't have it both ways. Schools with lesser media penetration get added, and the contract goes up. CLEARLY, the paradigm people are citing is missing several variables.

 

[billybud]

And this has what to do with what?

OK...a waste of time. Can't discuss sports with folks who willfully choose to be belligerent.

I do not believe that you are not understanding my post in the context of the posts having to do with a conference needing to add programs that TV partners are willing to pay enough for so that there is not a net reduction in individual program payouts.

 

[larryredbull]

The Big 12 has said it as clear as it can be said....

Bob Bowlsby Big 12 Commissioner..

"If expansion occurs, Bowlsby said officials would prefer to target members that could generate the same $26 million per school in revenues that the Big 12 is projected to distribute in June from bowls, TV revenues and NCAA Tournament appearances. How many schools can do that?
"Not very many," Bowlsby said."


Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/0...could-be-on-big-12-horizon.html#storylink=cpy

This has been my point as well and this article just backs it up. ESPN, the ACC and the B1G dont currently think Uconn can add money to the pot.

 

[upstater]

OK...a waste of time. Can't discuss sports with folks who willfully choose to be belligerent.

I do not believe that you are not understanding my post in the context of the posts having to do with a conference needing to add programs that TV partners are willing to pay enough for so that there is not a net reduction in individual program payouts.

What does that have to do with UConn?

And, it's plainly obvious given this discussion that the troll believes two contradictory things:

1. That a school's value determines payouts
2. That BC has little value--yet the contract went up after adding them.

So which is it?

Why?

 

[larryredbull]

OK...a waste of time. Can't discuss sports with folks who willfully choose to be belligerent.

I do not believe that you are not understanding my post in the context of the posts having to do with a conference needing to add programs that TV partners are willing to pay enough for so that there is not a net reduction in individual program payouts.

Bingo.

 

[upstater]

This has been my point as well and this article just backs it up. ESPN, the ACC and the B1G dont currently think Uconn can add money to the pot.

Then why did the ACC try to add them 2 years ago?

The B1G looks for AAU schools. Whole other discussion.

Seriously, you two trolls don't know much about TV and conference contracts. For heaven's sake, you don't even know the difference between tier 3 rights and other rights.

Which is no surprise since you're an ACC fan. Your commissioner peddles those to his son at Raycom for pennies and gets away with it because no one in your entire conference can differentiate between 1, 2 and 3.

 

[larryredbull]

Then why did the ACC try to add them 2 years ago?

The B1G looks for AAU schools. Whole other discussion.

Seriously, you two trolls don't know much about TV and conference contracts. For heaven's sake, you don't even know the difference between tier 3 rights and other rights.

Which is no surprise since you're an ACC fan. Your commissioner peddles those to his son at Raycom for pennies and gets away with it because no one in your entire conference can differentiate between 1, 2 and 3.

So far my argument jives with ESPN the ACC and the B1G. and yes, I have a good understanding of tier3 rights.

You clearly overestimate Uconn's current value but your free to keep thinking what you would like. I'm not trolling, I'm providing a view from the other side.