Which school will be next to get a P5 invite?

[larryredbull]

Seriously you are so far out of your depth on this, it's puzzling. Syracuse is in Central NY. BC gets beat by rodeo in Boston when it's playing football (no, that's not a joke). UConn's market (I'm not talking NY or Mass.) is 20th in the country.

Ok, below is the coverage map for the ACC network circa 2012

http://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2012/09/acc-network-tv-coverage-maps.html

In addition to this we also added the Yes and MSG networks which also adds broadcasting in CT and NJ. In addition, we also have games on the ESPN networks so we pretty much have the Northeast covered with TV sets without Uconn. Yes Uconn may get on on additional channels in the NE but I doubt the networks would pay the ACC enough to cover both the extra mouth to feed and raise the payout to the other ACC members which would be required.

Please tell me how I am "out of my depth" with this.

Uconn's only hope to be added to the ACC at this point is for either someone to leave or Notre Dame to join and we would need a 16th.

 

[JayRU09]

I actually believe that BYU has a standing invite from the Big XII whenever BYU is ready to fold on its dreams of being independent.

 

[upstater]

Ok, below is the coverage map for the ACC network circa 2012

http://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2012/09/acc-network-tv-coverage-maps.html

In addition to this we also added the Yes and MSG networks which also adds broadcasting in CT and NJ. In addition, we also have games on the ESPN networks so we pretty much have the Northeast covered with TV sets without Uconn. Yes Uconn may get on on additional channels in the NE but I doubt the networks would pay the ACC enough to cover both the extra mouth to feed and raise the payout to the other ACC members which would be required.

Please tell me how I am "out of my depth" with this.

Uconn's only hope to be added to the ACC at this point is for either someone to leave or Notre Dame to join and we would need a 16th.

You're out of your depth on this. ESPN is what counts. Eyeballs is what counts.

We've already gone over this on this CR board in threads at the top right now. SNY is charging $2.50 per subscriber in Connecticut right now largely because of UConn sports. There are a lot of people in this area for whom UConn is the best thing going, better than pro sports, better than TV shows. That doesn't apply to the other schools. This is why UConn's licensing and Tier3 revenues are so high.

 

[Rogerd1]

The day will come when ND will be "forced" to join a conference. However, I believe it will be the B1G.

Why does UConn need to be an AAU member while ND does not.

 

[larryredbull]

You're out of your depth on this. ESPN is what counts. Eyeballs is what counts.

We've already gone over this on this CR board in threads at the top right now. SNY is charging $2.50 per subscriber in Connecticut right now largely because of UConn sports. There are a lot of people in this area for whom UConn is the best thing going, better than pro sports, better than TV shows. That doesn't apply to the other schools. This is why UConn's licensing and Tier3 revenues are so high.

I think you are out of your depth. If ESPN is what counts, then we are covered since ESPN holds the entire ACC contract!! At 2.50 a subscriber and with the ACC projected to move to $20 mill per team payout with Notre Dame and Louisville coming on, adding Uconn would have to bring in an additional 8 million subscribers just to keep the payout equal. When you add a team you want to increase the payout so Uconn would have to bring more. I dont see that happening since we are already pretty well covered.

SNY is a mets station and overlaps coverage areas with YES which the ACC is on so again, we are already on in the same area as SNY is shown.

 

[upstater]

I think you are out of your depth. If ESPN is what counts, then we are covered since ESPN holds the entire ACC contract!! At 2.50 a subscriber and with the ACC projected to move to $20 mill per team payout with Notre Dame and Louisville coming on, adding Uconn would have to bring in an additional 8 million subscribers just to keep the payout equal. When you add a team you want to increase the payout so Uconn would have to bring more. I dont see that happening since we are already pretty well covered.

SNY is a mets station and overlaps coverage areas with YES which the ACC is on so again, we are already on in the same area as SNY is shown.

Oh my God, what are you talking about? SNY is for 3rd tier rights, not total rights. Jeez.

I'm pointing out to you how much people pay to watch UConn in the state of Connecticut. The amount of money UConn is worth in TV dollars dwarfs what BC and Syracuse bring to the table. We know the ACC and Swofford may not be so interested in that, given the types of schools they've added while Delany absolutely ate their lunch with Rutgers and Maryland.

 

[upstater]

Why does UConn need to be an AAU member while ND does not.

Football.

 

[Rogerd1]

Football.

I guess that explains Nebraska as well.

 

[upstater]

I guess that explains Nebraska as well.

Yes, indeed it does.

 

[larryredbull]

Oh my God, what are you talking about? SNY is for 3rd tier rights, not total rights. Jeez.

I'm pointing out to you how much people pay to watch UConn in the state of Connecticut. The amount of money UConn is worth in TV dollars dwarfs what BC and Syracuse bring to the table. We know the ACC and Swofford may not be so interested in that, given the types of schools they've added while Delany absolutely ate their lunch with Rutgers and Maryland.

Great explain to me how adding Uconn brings in excess of $20million a year to the ACC? You may not think much of BC or Cuse but apparently ESPN did to give the ACC a increase in rights fees and get the ACC network covered throughout the Northeast and thats a fact not a opinion that you have.

Maybe Uconn would have brought more money than BC or Cuse but the fact is that both of those teams are currently in the ACC, we arent kicking them out so to add Uconn in addition to those 2 means that Uconn will have to add more than $20 million a year in revenue to the ACC to both pay for their equal share and to increase it above and beyond what they are already guaranteed to get. THATS THE ARGUMENT!

The B1G's addition of Rutgers and UMD is a bet. If cable stays bundled and they get the B1G added in those areas, yes the B1G will have made a smart move and get more revenue than the ACC. If cable goes a la carte, the B1G made a stupid move because those schools wont pay for themselves. Time will tell on that move but its really premature to say that the B1G has eaten our lunch yet.

 

[specialisthusky]

Can you stop referring to the Acc network as if its an actual thing that generates money like the big ten network? The Acc Network isthe result of a collection of sublicensing deals to regional channels and is exactly what the big east network was. If the Acc included UCONN it would receive more for the tier 3 rights games sublicensed to these regional networks. Demand will increase among yes sny and nesn thus sublicensing contracts will increase.

 

[upstater]

Great explain to me how adding Uconn brings in excess of $20million a year to the ACC? You may not think much of BC or Cuse but apparently ESPN did to give the ACC a increase in rights fees and get the ACC network covered throughout the Northeast and thats a fact not a opinion that you have.

Maybe Uconn would have brought more money than BC or Cuse but the fact is that both of those teams are currently in the ACC, we arent kicking them out so to add Uconn in addition to those 2 means that Uconn will have to add more than $20 million a year in revenue to the ACC to both pay for their equal share and to increase it above and beyond what they are already guaranteed to get. THATS THE ARGUMENT!

The B1G's addition of Rutgers and UMD is a bet. If cable stays bundled and they get the B1G added in those areas, yes the B1G will have made a smart move and get more revenue than the ACC. If cable goes a la carte, the B1G made a stupid move because those schools wont pay for themselves. Time will tell on that move but its really premature to say that the B1G has eaten our lunch yet.

We already know the story of BC (and the fact that no one watches them, and the fact that Swofford thought he was doing something in Boston by grabbing them) and how they worked to keep UConn out. No big news there.

SNY went from 1.60 per subscriber to 2.50 per subscriber in CT after they added UConn's tier 3 sports. AND, they went from being offered on a sports package to BASIC cable on all systems. The penetration of UConn sports in the market (29th DMA nationally, but 1/3rd are included in NYC's DMA, which would make it the 20th nationally) is very high, much higher than the other schools you added. UConn's licensing and Third Tier revenue is $24.8 million, double Cuse, Rutgers, Pitt, and higher than Louisville's $16m. Here are other things to consider. Look at this:

http://syracusefan.com/threads/looks-like-the-prov-game-will-be-tape-delayed.40752/

AND:

 

[larryredbull]

Can you stop referring to the Acc network as if its an actual thing that generates money like the big ten network? The Acc Network isthe result of a collection of sublicensing deals to regional channels and is exactly what the big east network was. If the Acc included UCONN it would receive more for the tier 3 rights games sublicensed to these regional networks. Demand will increase among yes sny and nesn thus sublicensing contracts will increase.

Which is what ESPN pays the ACC for. Yes I have agreed demand will increase, my argument is that it won't increase enough to add another member.

Since we are planning to start an ACC network, it might be real in the future.

 

[larryredbull]

We already know the story of BC (and the fact that no one watches them, and the fact that Swofford thought he was doing something in Boston by grabbing them) and how they worked to keep UConn out. No big news there.

SNY went from 1.60 per subscriber to 2.50 per subscriber in CT after they added UConn's tier 3 sports. AND, they went from being offered on a sports package to BASIC cable on all systems. The penetration of UConn sports in the market (29th DMA nationally, but 1/3rd are included in NYC's DMA, which would make it the 20th nationally) is very high, much higher than the other schools you added. UConn's licensing and Third Tier revenue is $24.8 million, double Cuse, Rutgers, Pitt, and higher than Louisville's $16m. Here are other things to consider. Look at this:

http://syracusefan.com/threads/looks-like-the-prov-game-will-be-tape-delayed.40752/

AND:

No argument on BC. They are leaches on the ACC.

http://courantblogs.com/uconn-footb...es/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

From your on site, it looks like SNY isnt showing Uconn games any more. Even if 100% of the population of CT (3.59 mil) was paying $2.50 to see Uconn on TV, that would only be $8.97 mill, not enough to cover the $20 million break even point.

Again, adding Uconn doesnt bring enough money to the table to justify another addition.

 

[specialisthusky]

Which is what ESPN pays the ACC for. Yes I have agreed demand will increase, my argument is that it won't increase enough to add another member.

Since we are planning to start an ACC network, it might be real in the future.

So every school in the Acc commands 20 million? I'd venture to say that is an average being brought down by schools like wake ncst bc Pitt etc. an addition has to increase the average payout which UCONN would have no problem doing.

 

[ctchamps]

So every school in the Acc commands 20 million? I'd venture to say that is an average being brought down by schools like wake ncst bc Pitt etc. an addition has to increase the average payout which UCONN would have no problem doing.

Add in Duke! BB equivalent to UConn. Football equivalent to UConn maybe less. Besides larry's argument is just cable subscription. He's missing ad revenues.

 

[larryredbull]

So every school in the Acc commands 20 million? I'd venture to say that is an average being brought down by schools like wake ncst bc Pitt etc. an addition has to increase the average payout which UCONN would have no problem doing.

Wake and ncst are charter members, not sure what would happen if they were picked today. Since ncst was rumored to be a target for the SEC so I assume they are carrying heir weight. I doubt if conferences were redrafted that wake would be in the ACC but conferences don't usually kick out members. I have already told you how I feel about BC. Pitt put us into the PA region that we weren't really in before so yes, I would expect that Pitt is paying their way.

Again BC and Cuse already put us in the NE TV sets, yes Uconn would bring additional viewers in CT but there just arent enough paying customers in CT to add enough value to add another team.

In hindsight I beleive that Swoff would have added Uconn instead of BC if he were able to do it again but we cant kick BC out.

 

[larryredbull]

Add in Duke! BB equivalent to UConn. Football equivalent to UConn maybe less. Besides larry's argument is just cable subscription. He's missing ad revenues.

Again, a charter member. We arent redrafting conferences. The ACC has to work with what its got. Duke isnt a slouch either their BB team is more of a national brand than Uconn.

 

[NickyNewark]

Good thing for us ND is never coming in at 15 I guess. USF over UCONN to the Acc would make even less sense than Rutgers finding a life raft before us. I find that hard to believe. At a certain point Uva and unc are going to want flagships not the 5th best Florida state school whose football program is even worse than ours.

I don't think the other Florida school would want to have another instate school as a recruiting rival?Sorta like why would OSU want to bring Cinncy into the B1G?UConn stands on their own merits athletically and academically!

 

[specialisthusky]

Wake and ncst are charter members, not sure what would happen if they were picked today. Since ncst was rumored to be a target for the SEC so I assume they are carrying heir weight. I doubt if conferences were redrafted that wake would be in the ACC but conferences don't usually kick out members. I have already told you how I feel about BC. Pitt put us into the PA region that we weren't really in before so yes, I would expect that Pitt is paying their way.

Again BC and Cuse already put us in the NE TV sets, yes Uconn would bring additional viewers in CT but there just arent enough paying customers in CT to add enough value to add another team.

In hindsight I beleive that Swoff would have added Uconn instead of BC if he were able to do it again but we cant kick BC out.

You are not grasping basic economics and deflecting any points being made to counter your rediculous statement that UConn needs to bring in an additional 20 million dollars through tier three rights to have enough value for the ACC. No one is talking about kicking people out, no one is talking about rewriting expansion history. Simply put, UConn DOES have enough value in the ACC's revenue model.

 

[ctchamps]

Again, a charter member. We arent redrafting conferences. The ACC has to work with what its got. Duke isnt a slouch either their BB team is more of a national brand than Uconn.

Point is that by your evaluation of value (cable subscription) most of the ACC schools aren't carrying their own weight. So why is ESPN paying them the monies? It's because cable subscription is only part of the revenues ESPN generates.

UConn has all of CT, a good chunk of Mass and RI and a decent share of downstate NY. It competes easily with eyeballs in comparison with most of the ACC teams who have viewership divided with the SEC in the SEC's prohibitive favor or in the two states they are not in competition with the SEC, between themselves. You will have to take our word that BC was a little sister to UConn even when it was in the BE.

 

[larryredbull]

You are not grasping basic economics and deflecting any points being made to counter your rediculous statement that UConn needs to bring in an additional 20 million dollars through tier three rights to have enough value for the ACC. No one is talking about kicking people out, no one is talking about rewriting expansion history. Simply put, UConn DOES have enough value in the ACC's revenue model.

Yes I am. Your inflating why Uconn is valuable to the ACC. If ESPN only pays us $15 mill more a year for adding Uconn, then the avg payout per team drops because Uconn would get a equal share. Thats basic economics. $20 mill is the new number that the ACC will get hence, the ACC needs ESPN to at least pay us $20 mill more a year to break even.

Kicking temas out? Other posters are questioning how wake ncst, and Duke are paying their way. All of these are charter members and arent leaving the ACC. We are talking about new additions.

 

[larryredbull]

Point is that by your evaluation of value (cable subscription) most of the ACC schools aren't carrying their own weight. So why is ESPN paying them the monies? It's because cable subscription is only part of the revenues ESPN generates.

UConn has all of CT, a good chunk of Mass and RI and a decent share of downstate NY. It competes easily with eyeballs in comparison with most of the ACC teams who have viewership divided with the SEC in the SEC's prohibitive favor or in the two states they are not in competition with the SEC, between themselves. You will have to take our word that BC was a little sister to UConn even when it was in the BE.

You don't have to convince me on BC. Terrible move by the ACC. Again, hindsight, Uconn over BC would have been the better move. However, ESPN is paying us something for BC being in the conference and ESPN believes that they get the ACC in the NE market. With BC already in, Uconn would have to add even more to the pie which I dont believe that they do.

 

[upstater]

No argument on BC. They are leaches on the ACC.

http://courantblogs.com/uconn-footb...es/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

From your on site, it looks like SNY isnt showing Uconn games any more. Even if 100% of the population of CT (3.59 mil) was paying $2.50 to see Uconn on TV, that would only be $8.97 mill, not enough to cover the $20 million break even point.

Again, adding Uconn doesnt bring enough money to the table to justify another addition.

Holy cow, you made the same mistake again. SNY is tier 3!!! Not total rights. You just flushed UConn's national games right down the toilet. UConn men's bball alone is on 16 times on ESPN, CBS and ESPN2. More than any of the schools mentioned in this discussion (Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt, etc.). That's not even counting the ESPNU and CBS SN games. We're talking a handful of games for SNY, that's it.

And the Hartford Courant reporter was wrong. There are multiple games on SNY.

 

[upstater]

You don't have to convince me on BC. Terrible move by the ACC. Again, hindsight, Uconn over BC would have been the better move. However, ESPN is paying us something for BC being in the conference and ESPN believes that they get the ACC in the NE market. With BC already in, Uconn would have to add even more to the pie which I dont believe that they do.

You're not grasping the differences between tier 3 and tier 1 and 2 rights. You're just not getting it.

Look at UConn's licensing revenues and tier 3 money, and compare them to the schools we're talking about.