Which school will be next to get a P5 invite?

[ctchamps]

You don't have to convince me on BC. Terrible move by the ACC. Again, hindsight, Uconn over BC would have been the better move. However, ESPN is paying us something for BC being in the conference and ESPN believes that they get the ACC in the NE market. With BC already in, Uconn would have to add even more to the pie which I dont believe that they do.

Every year shows get canceled from every network providing content. They may be in every market but if no one is tuning into the show advertisers don't pay. It isn't just being in a market that gives a university value. People have to want to tune in. Being in NE with BC is not terrific for ESPN if all ESPN is getting are NE crickets. People in this forum are postulating that the best chance for BC to get viewership to take advantage of the NE region is to give BC a potential rival. The additive of BC and UConn far outweighs what each individually could bring. We're arguing the same with Rutgers in the B!G.

 

[larryredbull]

Holy cow, you made the same mistake again. SNY is tier 3!!! Not total rights. You just flushed UConn's national games right down the toilet. UConn men's bball alone is on 16 times on ESPN, CBS and ESPN2. More than any of the schools mentioned in this discussion (Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt, etc.). That's not even counting the ESPNU and CBS SN games. We're talking a handful of games for SNY, that's it.

And the Hartford Courant reporter was wrong. There are multiple games on SNY.

Ok, through the AAC your getting a fat $2mill a year for your 16 games. Thats about $18 mill short!!

I have no doubt that Uconn is worth more than $2mill and the reason you have 16 games is out of the new AAC, Uconn and cincy are the only real valuable teams for TV. That still doesnt convince me that Uconn is worth more than $20mil to that ACC.

Obviously since the ACC, B1G, and ESPN isnt knocking down Uconn's door to sign them up, they are of the same opinion.

 

[specialisthusky]

Ok, through the AAC your getting a fat $2mill a year for your 16 games. Thats about $18 mill short!!

I have no doubt that Uconn is worth more than $2mill and the reason you have 16 games is out of the new AAC, Uconn and cincy are the only real valuable teams for TV. That still doesnt convince me that Uconn is worth more than $20mil to that ACC.

Obviously since the ACC, B1G, and ESPN isnt knocking down Uconn's door to sign them up, they are of the same opinion.

Convenient excuse and completely ignores the fact Acc targeted UCONN with Syracuse. I give you credit for sticking to your argument, but you are wrong on this one.

 

[larryredbull]

Convenient excuse and completely ignores the fact Acc targeted UCONN with Syracuse. I give you credit for sticking to your argument, but you are wrong on this one.

So far Im right. If Uconn gets added to the ACC or B1G, then you will be right.

The caveat would be if ND decides to join the ACC (or B1G) or the Big12 implodes. Uconn would be a viable 16th candidate. Its my belief that the ACC wont move unless one of those 2 things happen.

 

[upstater]

Ok, through the AAC your getting a fat $2mill a year for your 16 games. Thats about $18 mill short!!

I have no doubt that Uconn is worth more than $2mill and the reason you have 16 games is out of the new AAC, Uconn and cincy are the only real valuable teams for TV. That still doesnt convince me that Uconn is worth more than $20mil to that ACC.

Obviously since the ACC, B1G, and ESPN isnt knocking down Uconn's door to sign them up, they are of the same opinion.

Who cares what convinces you?

I'm giving you real stats. Not fantasies.

 

[d1reality]

I love these definitive statements as if you know something... Realignment was done when ND left the BE (supposedly).
As long as a conference can make more money per school through addition, they will expand. That means schools need to be available that can raise the per diem.

Nobody knows what the next steps are, or when the next chips will fall. I would venture to say that change is the only constant.

What I do know is that there is no expansion talk by the B1G and ACC. The SEC isn't even sniffing.

""As long as a conference can make more money per school through addition, they will expand. That means schools need to be available that can raise the per diem."" Exactly my point!

 

[upstater]

What I do know is that there is no expansion talk by the B1G and ACC. The SEC isn't even sniffing.

""As long as a conference can make more money per school through addition, they will expand. That means schools need to be available that can raise the per diem."" Exactly my point!

Per diem does not mean what people think it means.

 

[billybud]

The Big 12 has said it as clear as it can be said....

Bob Bowlsby Big 12 Commissioner..

"If expansion occurs, Bowlsby said officials would prefer to target members that could generate the same $26 million per school in revenues that the Big 12 is projected to distribute in June from bowls, TV revenues and NCAA Tournament appearances. How many schools can do that?
"Not very many," Bowlsby said."

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/0...could-be-on-big-12-horizon.html#storylink=cpy​

 

[upstater]

The Big 12 has said it as clear as it can be said....

Bob Bowlsby Big 12 Commissioner..

"If expansion occurs, Bowlsby said officials would prefer to target members that could generate the same $26 million per school in revenues that the Big 12 is projected to distribute in June from bowls, TV revenues and NCAA Tournament appearances. How many schools can do that?
"Not very many," Bowlsby said."

​

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/0...could-be-on-big-12-horizon.html#storylink=cpy​

And this has what to do with what?

if you're putting this up here to back up the troll, your positions have a fundamental contradiction and inconsistency.

You're saying schools get added because of the bottom line. Yet the troll is denigrating BC here while also touting how the conference made more money in increased contracts. You can't have it both ways. Schools with lesser media penetration get added, and the contract goes up. CLEARLY, the paradigm people are citing is missing several variables.

 

[billybud]

And this has what to do with what?

OK...a waste of time. Can't discuss sports with folks who willfully choose to be belligerent.

I do not believe that you are not understanding my post in the context of the posts having to do with a conference needing to add programs that TV partners are willing to pay enough for so that there is not a net reduction in individual program payouts.

 

[larryredbull]

The Big 12 has said it as clear as it can be said....

Bob Bowlsby Big 12 Commissioner..

"If expansion occurs, Bowlsby said officials would prefer to target members that could generate the same $26 million per school in revenues that the Big 12 is projected to distribute in June from bowls, TV revenues and NCAA Tournament appearances. How many schools can do that?
"Not very many," Bowlsby said."


Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/0...could-be-on-big-12-horizon.html#storylink=cpy

This has been my point as well and this article just backs it up. ESPN, the ACC and the B1G dont currently think Uconn can add money to the pot.

 

[upstater]

OK...a waste of time. Can't discuss sports with folks who willfully choose to be belligerent.

I do not believe that you are not understanding my post in the context of the posts having to do with a conference needing to add programs that TV partners are willing to pay enough for so that there is not a net reduction in individual program payouts.

What does that have to do with UConn?

And, it's plainly obvious given this discussion that the troll believes two contradictory things:

1. That a school's value determines payouts
2. That BC has little value--yet the contract went up after adding them.

So which is it?

Why?

 

[larryredbull]

OK...a waste of time. Can't discuss sports with folks who willfully choose to be belligerent.

I do not believe that you are not understanding my post in the context of the posts having to do with a conference needing to add programs that TV partners are willing to pay enough for so that there is not a net reduction in individual program payouts.

Bingo.

 

[upstater]

This has been my point as well and this article just backs it up. ESPN, the ACC and the B1G dont currently think Uconn can add money to the pot.

Then why did the ACC try to add them 2 years ago?

The B1G looks for AAU schools. Whole other discussion.

Seriously, you two trolls don't know much about TV and conference contracts. For heaven's sake, you don't even know the difference between tier 3 rights and other rights.

Which is no surprise since you're an ACC fan. Your commissioner peddles those to his son at Raycom for pennies and gets away with it because no one in your entire conference can differentiate between 1, 2 and 3.

 

[larryredbull]

Then why did the ACC try to add them 2 years ago?

The B1G looks for AAU schools. Whole other discussion.

Seriously, you two trolls don't know much about TV and conference contracts. For heaven's sake, you don't even know the difference between tier 3 rights and other rights.

Which is no surprise since you're an ACC fan. Your commissioner peddles those to his son at Raycom for pennies and gets away with it because no one in your entire conference can differentiate between 1, 2 and 3.

So far my argument jives with ESPN the ACC and the B1G. and yes, I have a good understanding of tier3 rights.

You clearly overestimate Uconn's current value but your free to keep thinking what you would like. I'm not trolling, I'm providing a view from the other side.

 

[billybud]

And this has what to do with what?

if you're putting this up here to back up the troll, your positions have a fundamental contradiction and inconsistency.

You're saying schools get added because of the bottom line. Yet the troll is denigrating BC here while also touting how the conference made more money in increased contracts. You can't have it both ways. Schools with lesser media penetration get added, and the contract goes up. CLEARLY, the paradigm people are citing is missing several variables.

"Media penetration"?

Market has a meaning if your model is driven by obtaining carriage fees whether of not you watch a team play (BTN, SECN for instance)....

ESPN has a different model. ESPN is nationally carried. They get their fees and they additionally want eyeballs actually watching games. They sell advertising and the Neilsens are important for setting rates.

When you really get down to fan TV watching nationally...Here is a metered market picture of 2011:

Top 25 Markets for 2011
No. 1 Birmingham: 5.9 rating
No. 2 Oklahoma City: 4.3 rating
Columbus: 4.3 rating
No. 4 Greenville: 4.1 rating
No. 5 New Orleans: 3.4 rating
Atlanta: 3.4 rating
No. 7 Jacksonville: 3.3 rating
Tulsa: 3.3 rating
No. 9 Las Vegas: 3.2 rating
No. 10 Knoxville: 3.0 rating
No. 11 Dayton: 2.8 rating
No. 12 Greensboro: 2.7 rating
Austin: 2.7 rating
Charlotte: 2.7 rating
Fort Myers: 2.7 rating
No. 16 Pittsburgh: 2.5 rating
Nashville: 2.5 rating
Norfolk: 2.5 rating
Memphis: 2.5
No. 20 Cleveland: 2.4
No. 21 Orlando: 2.3
No. 22 Raleigh-Durham: 2.2
West Palm Beach: 2.2
Detroit: 2.2
No. 25 Cincinnati: 2.0
Richmond: 2.0
Portland 2.0
Kansas City: 2.0
Tampa-St. Petersburg: 2.0

 

[upstater]

So far my argument jives with ESPN the ACC and the B1G. and yes, I have a good understanding of tier3 rights.

You clearly overestimate Uconn's current value but your free to keep thinking what you would like. I'm not trolling, I'm providing a view from the other side.

You don't have a good understanding, as evidenced in this thread by your calculations of SNY's take as somehow being the extent of UConn's value. After I explained tier 3 rights to you, you made the same mistake again. Clearly, you're out of your depth.

 

[billybud]

Then why did the ACC try to add them 2 years ago?

The B1G looks for AAU schools. Whole other discussion.

Seriously, you two trolls don't know much about TV and conference contracts. For heaven's sake, you don't even know the difference between tier 3 rights and other rights.

Which is no surprise since you're an ACC fan. Your commissioner peddles those to his son at Raycom for pennies and gets away with it because no one in your entire conference can differentiate between 1, 2 and 3.

I am an FSU guy...I don't think of myself as an ACC fan necessarily...Clemson is the only ACC rivalry that FSU has developed, and that only lately.

Calling someone a "Troll" because they have a differing opinion is the fan equivalent of screaming "racist". It shuts down intelligent conversation. Do please put me on ignore if that suits you.

 

[upstater]

"Media penetration"?

Market has a meaning if your model is driven by obtaining carriage fees whether of not you watch a team play (BTN, SECN for instance)....

ESPN has a different model. ESPN is nationally carried. They get their fees and they additionally want eyeballs actually watching games. They sell advertising and the Neilsens are important for setting rates.

When you really get down to fan TV watching nationally...Here is a metered market picture of 2011:

Top 25 Markets for 2011
No. 1 Birmingham: 5.9 rating
No. 2 Oklahoma City: 4.3 rating
Columbus: 4.3 rating
No. 4 Greenville: 4.1 rating
No. 5 New Orleans: 3.4 rating
Atlanta: 3.4 rating
No. 7 Jacksonville: 3.3 rating
Tulsa: 3.3 rating
No. 9 Las Vegas: 3.2 rating
No. 10 Knoxville: 3.0 rating
No. 11 Dayton: 2.8 rating
No. 12 Greensboro: 2.7 rating
Austin: 2.7 rating
Charlotte: 2.7 rating
Fort Myers: 2.7 rating
No. 16 Pittsburgh: 2.5 rating
Nashville: 2.5 rating
Norfolk: 2.5 rating
Memphis: 2.5
No. 20 Cleveland: 2.4
No. 21 Orlando: 2.3
No. 22 Raleigh-Durham: 2.2
West Palm Beach: 2.2
Detroit: 2.2
No. 25 Cincinnati: 2.0
Richmond: 2.0
Portland 2.0
Kansas City: 2.0
Tampa-St. Petersburg: 2.0

Oh my god, this is becoming beyond preposterous at this point. What does ESPN's ratings have to do with a discussion of UConn, Cuse, Pitt, Ville and BC? Yes, of course carriage fees are very important. This is the whole reason that Florida St.'s Chairman of the Board threw a hissy fit at Tobacco Road a few months ago.

 

[upstater]

I am an FSU guy...I don't think of myself as an ACC fan necessarily...Clemson is the only ACC rivalry that FSU has developed, and that only lately.

Calling someone a "Troll" because they have a differing opinion is the fan equivalent of screaming "racist". It shuts down intelligent conversation. Do please put me on ignore if that suits you.

I know you're not a troll. But you are supporting the troll's ludicrous points in this case.

 

[larryredbull]

You don't have a good understanding, as evidenced in this thread by your calculations of SNY's take as somehow being the extent of UConn's value. After I explained tier 3 rights to you, you made the same mistake again. Clearly, you're out of your depth.

I dont work for ESPN, Fox or any other media company and clearly neither do you. I have laid out a clear argument as to why I don't believe that Uconn adds enough value to the ACC for them to add Uconn and backed it up with examples. You are free to think what you like but clearly my differing opinion has upset you.

You havent explained anything to me and haven't provided anything to sway my opinion.

 

[larryredbull]

I know you're not a troll. But you are supporting the troll's ludicrous points in this case.

Yep someone else see's what I see must be ludicrous....

 

[upstater]

I dont work for ESPN, Fox or any other media company and clearly neither do you. I have laid out a clear argument as to why I don't believe that Uconn adds enough value to the ACC for them to add Uconn and backed it up with examples. You are free to think what you like but clearly my differing opinion has upset you.

You havent explained anything to me and haven't provided anything to sway my opinion.

LOL. Clear as mud. Can't even get SNY and tier 3 rights.

 

[larryredbull]

LOL. Clear as mud. Can't even get SNY and tier 3 rights.

I'm done with this. You are free to believe whatever you want.

 

[upstater]

I'm done with this. You are free to believe whatever you want.

Belief doesn't come into what I'm saying at all.

I used numbers and that's it.

1. UConn's licensing and tier3 revenue: $24.8m
2. SNY's jump in Connecticut from $1.60 per subscriber to $2.50 after adding UConn
3. All the state's cable systems adding SNY to Basic cable after adding UConn.

I also gave you a link showing how the UConn women bumped a Syracuse men's bball game against Providence off of SNY. There's a lot of other anecdotal stuff like that, like UConn sports events being the highest rated shows not only on cable, but also broadcast television as well during primetime.