Where is my daily Knicks update?

[ihatepants]

I'm sorry, but Jeremy Lin is highly overrated man. If it weren't for James Harden he would have flopped being the focal point of the offense and having everyone play off of him.

I have to disagree here. Jeremy Lin is still one of the best in the NBA at running the pick and roll (even if he can only go right - top 5 in all of NBA according to Morey) and a very good scorer near the rim. The issue is that this season, because James Harden has the ball and is initiating the plays 80% of the time, Lin was turned primarily into a spot shooting 2guard for the Rockets, which wasn't anywhere near his strength.

Lin needs the ball in his hands to be effective, but he basically spent the season spotting up for threes he couldn't make. I believe he was averaging only about 14 points per 48 when Harden was on the floor, but 25+ when Harden was on the bench. And although he started the season poorly, he actually got better as the season progressed. Whether that was due to recovering from his previous injury & surgery or not, we'll see. Also, he had a better season than Felton.

 

[JaYnYcE]

I have to disagree here. Jeremy Lin is still one of the best in the NBA at running the pick and roll (even if he can only go right) and a very good scorer near the rim. The issue is that this season, because James Harden has the ball and is initiating the plays 80% of the time, Lin was turned primarily into a spot shooting 2guard for the Rockets, which wasn't anywhere near his strength. Lin needs the ball in his hands to be effective, but he basically spent the season spotting up for threes he couldn't make. I believe he was averaging only about 14 points per 48 when Harden was on the floor, but 25+ when Harden was on the bench. And although he started the season poorly, he actually got better as the season progressed. Whether that was due to recovering from his previous injury & surgery or not, we'll see. Also, he had a better season than Felton.

I'm pretty sure Felton's numbers were better than Lin this season. He too battled injuries. Lin has female parts and I lost all respect for him when he made that ridiculous 85% ready to play comment a year ago then sits out of a playoff game this year due to a bruised chest. Guy has no heart. And if Lin needs the ball in his hands a high percentage of the time, how do you change the offense to go through a second year player who comes out of nowhere?


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[willie99]

I am a Giants fan at least.

 

[ihatepants]

I'm pretty sure Felton's numbers were better than Lin this season. He too battled injuries.

Their per-game numbers were pretty similar:
Felton - 13.9 points (42.7%/36.0%/78.9%), 2.9 boards, 5.5 assists, 0.2 blocks, 1.4 steals, 2.3 turnovers in 68 games
Lin - 13.4 points (44.1%/33.9%/78.5%), 3.0 boards, 6.1 assists, 0.4 blocks, 1.6 steals, 2.9 turnovers in 82 games

But when you get into analytics, Felton did worse than Lin. Despite handling the ball more (22.21 USG vs 20.74), Felton's possessions would lead to less assists (25.4 assist rate vs 28.4). Isn't that what you would want from a drive and kick point guard that isn't the first scoring option? He also had a much lower TS% than Lin (50.5 TS% vs 53.8), and was well below league average in that regard (53.5). He does, however have many less turnovers (10.6 turnover rate vs 13.5), as that's been Lin's main weakness thus far in his career.

And this is all despite Houston playing away from Lin's strengths.

And if Lin needs the ball in his hands a high percentage of the time, how do you change the offense to go through a second year player who comes out of nowhere?

They don't need to change the offense for him. Lin was a good pick up for the team until they got Harden; and Harden is one of the best players in the game, so they're doing the right thing by focusing their offense around him. But after the trade, I think that Lin no longer has a proper place on that team and they should look to move him unless he can show improvement in his jump shooting.

 

[JaYnYcE]

Their per-game numbers were pretty similar:
Felton - 13.9 points (42.7%/36.0%/78.9%), 2.9 boards, 5.5 assists, 0.2 blocks, 1.4 steals, 2.3 turnovers in 68 games
Lin - 13.4 points (44.1%/33.9%/78.5%), 3.0 boards, 6.1 assists, 0.4 blocks, 1.6 steals, 2.9 turnovers in 82 games

But when you get into analytics, Felton did worse than Lin. Despite handling the ball more (22.21 USG vs 20.74), Felton's possessions would lead to less assists (25.4 assist rate vs 28.4). Isn't that what you would want from a drive and kick point guard that isn't the first scoring option? He also had a much lower TS% than Lin (50.5 TS% vs 53.8), and was well below league average in that regard (53.5). He does, however have many less turnovers (10.6 turnover rate vs 13.5), as that's been Lin's main weakness thus far in his career.

And this is all despite Houston playing away from Lin's strengths.



They don't need to change the offense for him. Lin was a good pick up for the team until they got Harden; and Harden is one of the best players in the game, so they're doing the right thing by focusing their offense around him. But after the trade, I think that Lin no longer has a proper place on that team and they should look to move him unless he can show improvement in his jump shooting.

I appreciate you looking up the stats of both players. Felton averaged closer to 2 TO's per game to Lin's closer to 3. That's always been his problem and Felton taking care of the ball was a big reason why NY lead the league in fewest TO's per game. A huge jump with being last or second to last in that category a year ago.

Also I don't like TS%. I think it's flawed and doesn't tell the true story, no pun intended.


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[Pudge]

The Knicks daily update?

They sucked in the end. a REAL TEAM played TEAM basketball and beat the Knicks. The New York Knickerbockers had a good year, for them, with a deft coaching job by Mike Woodson.

 

[aceboon]

This board is crazy, Lin as a 2nd option to Melo? Lmao, you are not winning with Lin as your 2nd best player/2nd scoring option.

 

[James]

I'm not a Knicks fan but Lin is merely a trading chip for the rockets. Nice sized contract and highly replaceable. he is really not top 5 anything, but niether is Felton. In another news boheim is in the media today ripping the knickerbockers, not melo tho (rightfully so).

 

[Scoe]

Beverly played PG way better then Lin for the Rockets.

 

[Jerry1714]

As long as the "team" is built around Melo this will be their story every year.

 

[caw]

I appreciate you looking up the stats of both players. Felton averaged closer to 2 TO's per game to Lin's closer to 3. That's always been his problem and Felton taking care of the ball was a big reason why NY lead the league in fewest TO's per game. A huge jump with being last or second to last in that category a year ago.

Also I don't like TS%. I think it's flawed and doesn't tell the true story, no pun intended.


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The difference was 2.3 versus 2.9. I get you are trying to make a point, but rounding down and up respectively is really absurd here. It would make more sense to say the difference was .5 TO's per game. Or about 41 TO's over the course of an 82 game season.

As for TS%, I somewhat agree. Felton was a lot by his better from 3, Lin was much better inside the arc.

Lin and Felton were very close statistically this year.

Back to Melo, he is a very good iso-player but he doesn't make anyone better. Great shooter, decent rebounder, lax-defender, horrible at keeping his teammates involved. He really should never be the focal point for a NBA championship aspiring team.

 

[Husky25]

As long as the "team" is built around Melo by James Dolan or anyone he appoints, this will be their story every year.

There. That's better.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

The difference was 2.3 versus 2.9. I get you are trying to make a point, but rounding down and up respectively is really absurd here. It would make more sense to say the difference was .5 TO's per game. Or about 41 TO's over the course of an 82 game season.

As for TS%, I somewhat agree. Felton was a lot by his better from 3, Lin was much better inside the arc.

Lin and Felton were very close statistically this year.

Back to Melo, he is a very good iso-player but he doesn't make anyone better. Great shooter, decent rebounder, lax-defender, horrible at keeping his teammates involved. He really should never be the focal point for a NBA championship aspiring team.

Exactly. I get that he doesn't have a great supporting cast in NY. He certainly doesn't have a Wade or Bosh. But he does have some pieces and being the "superstar" of the team, isn't it up to him to make up for some of the teams deficiencies? That's what the great players do. He sees himself as a top 3-5 player in the league. He can pick up some of the slack. Does he do that? Lets see:

Knicks are undersized and getting killed on the glass by a much bigger Indiana team. So does 6'8 Carmelo who is playing PF go ahead and bang down low and grab at least 10 boards to help his team? No he gets 6 a game.

Ok so the Knicks aren't a great defensive team. Fine. They need some big stops especially in the 4th. Does Carmelo pick up the slack? Umm nope, he gets torched by Lance Stephenson to a career high 26, roughly 20 pts above his average.

Ok fine, so the Knicks don't exactly have a world class PG and their offense can get stagnant. Does Carmelo the superstar pick up the slack and make a point to get his teamates some open looks to get them going? No he has 7 assists in 6 games!!

Does nobody else see this? Sure he doesn't have the greatest supporting cast, but he sees himself as the superstar. He does nothing to make up for any of the teams deficiencies. Nothing at all. Defense and rebounding are all about effort and energy. Maybe hes not a great passer but for such a lethal offensive threat he should be able to find an open man once in a while.

 

[James]

Look @ the remaining 4 teams in the playoffs. they all have atleast 2 star level CONSISTENT players. what is Carmelo's number 2? jr smith ? A glorified bench gunner? It's proof Felton stinks when he can't complete a field goal in an elimination game.
you can't ask melo to be lebron-- a top 5 player ever--, he's an all world scorer whose proven can win. gold medals and all. Knicks management is a mess.

 

[JaYnYcE]

It's Patrick Ewing and company all over again.


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[Scoe]

It's Patrick Ewing and company all over again.


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No the Ewing teams would destroy this Knicks team and would get to the ECF. Ewing is the greatest Knick of alltime and he would get it done at 40 percent. Your right in the sense that Ewing never had a number 2, until he was very late into his career when he had Spree and Houston. Oakley was probably Ewing's best number 2 most of his career and Oakley was mainly a rebounder, a specialist like Chandler. Those knicks teams had over achievers like Starks and Mase. Ewing had Mark Jackson earlier in his career. Melo is more talented then Ewing as great as Ewing was he was never considered a top 5 player and Melo is closer to that then Ewing ever was (it was a tougher era back then).

It would not be pretty if the 90s knicks were playing todays Knicks ill tell ya that. The 90s team poured blood onto the court every night.

 

[JaYnYcE]

No the Ewing teams would destroy this Knicks team and would get to the ECF. Ewing is the greatest Knick of alltime and he would get it done at 40 percent. Your right in the sense that Ewing never had a number 2, until he was very late into his career when he had Spree and Houston. Oakley was probably Ewing's best number 2 most of his career and Oakley was mainly a rebounder, a specialist like Chandler. Those knicks teams had over achievers like Starks and Mase. Ewing had Mark Jackson earlier in his career. Melo is more talented then Ewing as great as Ewing was he was never considered a top 5 player and Melo is closer to that then Ewing ever was (it was a tougher era back then).

It would not be pretty if the 90s knicks were playing todays Knicks ill tell ya that. The 90s team poured blood onto the court every night.

It was a different era. Those 90's Knicks were tough SOBs. I'm glad you saw my point as I wasn't comparing Ewing and Melo side by side. Ewing was a warrior and came to work everyday. I don't feel that way about Melo, or anyone in today's NBA for that matter with the exception of maybe Tim Duncan. It's funny, the Knicks could have had Chris Paul right about now but screwed it up when they signed Chandler.


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[Waquoit]

It's Patrick Ewing and company all over again.

What happened in 1999 when Ewing was injured? Oh yeah, they made it to the Finals.

 

[hthusky74]

I appreciate you looking up the stats of both players. Felton averaged closer to 2 TO's per game to Lin's closer to 3. That's always been his problem and Felton taking care of the ball was a big reason why NY lead the league in fewest TO's per game. A huge jump with being last or second to last in that category a year ago.

Also I don't like TS%. I think it's flawed and doesn't tell the true story, no pun intended.


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The only stat that matters is when is the last time the Knicks won the championship? When you consider they are one of the top 3 teams wealth wise, that is pathetic.

 

[JaYnYcE]

What happened in 1999 when Ewing was injured? Oh yeah, they made it to the Finals.

Come on man, that was an eight seed who caught fire and ran into the twin towers of Duncan and Robinson. That was a great run but those Knicks were greatly overmatched.


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[JaYnYcE]

The only stat that matters is when is the last time the Knicks won the championship? When you consider they are one of the top 3 teams wealth wise, that is pathetic.

Your attempt at trying to be cute is pathetic. 1973 isn't a statistic.


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[hthusky74]

Your attempt at trying to be cute is pathetic. 1973 isn't a statistic.


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Like I said, when big city big money teams like the Yankees, Dodgers, Lakers, Knicks etc. go 40 years without a title it is a pathetic situation. What is the Knick's excuse?

 

[JaYnYcE]

Like I said, when big city big money teams like the Yankees, Dodgers, Lakers, Knicks etc. go 40 years without a title it is a pathetic situation. What is the Knick's excuse?

Larry Bird, Michael Jordan and now Lebron James.


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[8893]

Larry Bird, Michael Jordan and now Lebron James.

James Dolan and Isaiah Thomas.

 

[JaYnYcE]

James Dolan and Isaiah Thomas.

That Dolan, the incompetent son, came later on. He wasn't around for the early to mid 90's Knicks. Just look at the list off of the top of my head of the hall of famers that MJ prevented from getting a ring:

Ewing
Barkley
Karl Malone
Stockton
Drexler
Reggie Miller


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[traitor71]

James Dolan and Isaiah Thomas.

Don't forget Hakeem Olajuwon.

 

[8893]

That Dolan, the incompetent son, came later on. He wasn't around for the early to mid 90's Knicks.

Understood, but if you're accounting for all the years since their last championship and identifying those most responsible, at a minimum you have to attribute the years between the end of Jordan's dominance and last season to Dolan and Thomas. And it wouldn't be unfair to lay the blame at their feet for the fact that LeBron never even seriously considered the Knicks, because these two clowns made the franchise look like a joke with no easy path to a championship. In that sense, they are still the ones most responsible.

 

[hthusky74]

Understood, but if you're accounting for all the years since their last championship and identifying those most responsible, at a minimum you have to attribute the years between the end of Jordan's dominance and last season to Dolan and Thomas. And it wouldn't be unfair to lay the blame at their feet for the fact that LeBron never even seriously considered the Knicks, because these two clowns made the franchise look like a joke with no easy path to a championship. In that sense, they are still the ones most responsible.

You can account for it anyway you want, but they are arguably the richest franchise in the NBA and haven't won a championship in 40 years. They suck, their owners sucks, their management sucks, their coaching sucks, their players suck, or some combination of the above. My only point is they are pathetic.

 

[Jerry1714]

Larry Bird, Michael Jordan and now Lebron James.


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wow this made me laugh. At you. Not with you.

 

[JaYnYcE]

You can account for it anyway you want, but they are arguably the richest franchise in the NBA and haven't won a championship in 40 years. They suck, their owners sucks, their management sucks, their coaching sucks, their players suck, or some combination of the above. My only point is they are pathetic.

Hey it beats the 80 years of "bad luck" the Red Sox went through prior to 2004. Wait, no the "curse" I meant. Didn't that have something to do with a piano? That wasn't pathetic at all.


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