When the history of Big East Basketball is written....

[whaler11]

This history book will look great in between my volumes on the WHA and ABA.

 

[Hi-Low]

With all due respect to UConn's post season achievements, which are clearly the best of the lot, the conference history is just that, the history of the entire conference, not just starting when UConn became good. Syracuse IS the face of the Big East, on a national level and from start to finish, its best program.
The Big East survived the first defections, it could not survive Syracuse leaving. The greatest programs in the HISTORY of the BE are SU, GT, UConn, Pitt and Nova. No one else really comes close to any length of success or great national prominence ( the Mullin teams were good for SJU, but since then, ?)
I for one will miss the Big East, and as a basketball guy I rue the American culture that worships football and has brought about the destruction of the BE. I hope you guys land on your feet.

The fact is postseason is how teams are judged....and it's not even close between Syracuse and UConn as Big East members.
Besides the 3 National Titles vs 1, UConn has made 9 Elite Eights to 5 for Syracuse. NCAA tourney record for UConn is 48-16, Syracuse 47-26. I would say Georgetown has a much better case for #2 then Syracuse with their 8 Elite Eights. As far as their "length of success" Syracuse was fairly ordinary in the tourney during the 80's as they missed it or lost by their second game 7 times and made 1 final 4. From 1990 on UConn dwarfs everyone else. There is nothing wrong with being #3 in the Big East but that is how "HISTORY" will remember Syracuse.

 

[omniorange]

The fact is postseason is how teams are judged....and it's not even close between Syracuse and UConn as Big East members.
Besides the 3 National Titles vs 1, UConn has made 9 Elite Eights to Syracuse's 5, tourney record for UConn is 48-16, Syracuse 47-26. I would say Georgetown has a much better case for #2 then Syracuse with their 8 Elite Eights. As far as "length of success" Syracuse was fairly ordinary in the tourney during the 80's as they missed it or bowed out in their second game 7 times, and made 1 final 4. From 1990 on UConn dwarfs everyone else. There is nothing wrong with being #3 in the Big East but that is how history will remember Syracuse.

And if tourney success is your one sole criteria, then I concede, UConn has been better.

But, if I choose to factor in overall success within the conference in my criteria, then the ONLY factor keeping UConn ahead of SU is 3 to 1. If, and that is a huge IF, we were fortunate enough to win a second NC this year then (and only then) SU's overall success in the conference is enough to push the Orange ahead of the Huskies, imho.

And that is not an unreasonable stance to take.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Hi-Low]

And if tourney success is your one sole criteria, then I concede, UConn has been better.

But, if I choose to factor in overall success within the conference in my criteria, then the ONLY factor keeping UConn ahead of SU is 3 to 1. If, and that is a huge IF, we were fortunate enough to win a second NC this year then (and only then) SU's overall success in the conference is enough to push the Orange ahead of the Huskies, imho.

And that is not an unreasonable stance to take.

Cheers,
Neil

You have the right to think whatever you want but the 3 titles aren't the ONLY factor. Syracuse was better than UConn in the 80's, but what did those 10 years get you besides more loses in the tourney and 0 national titles. Also how can Syracuse be considered the best overall BE team when Georgetown was the best team in the 80's and UConn was the best team in the 90's and 00's? If you win a title this year you can be #2....congrats! It's my list I make the rules.

 

[omniorange]

You have the right to think whatever you want but the 3 titles aren't the ONLY factor. Syracuse was better than UConn in the 80's, but what did those 10 years get you besides more loses in the tourney and 0 national titles. Also how can Syracuse be considered the best overall BE team when Georgetown was the best team in the 80's and UConn was the best team in the 90's and 00's? If you win a title this year you can be #2....congrats! It's my list I make the rules.

Looking at this solely within conference:

Georgetown was the best conference team in the 80s, with Syracuse and St. Johns vying for second and third.
UConn was clearly the best team in the conference in the 90s, with Syracuse clearly second.
Pitt was the best team in the conference in the 21st century winning 4 regular season titles and 2 BET with UConn and SU nip and tuck for second and third.

Which team was there each and every decade?

Now when you factor in the NCAAs, UConn goes to the top. But if we win the title this year, we go to the top because 3 vs 1 isn't as big a deal as 3 vs 2. It just isn't.

It's the same reason why whenever we win our 2nd NC, if UConn still only has 3 we leap-frog you in terms of all-time programs due to our regular season wins record. And there are some who believe even with the 3 vs 1, we are the better all-time program now. But I give more weight to the 3 vs 1.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Peacefrog]

With all due respect to UConn's post season achievements, which are clearly the best of the lot, the conference history is just that, the history of the entire conference, not just starting when UConn became good. Syracuse IS the face of the Big East, on a national level and from start to finish, its best program.
The Big East survived the first defections, it could not survive Syracuse leaving. The greatest programs in the HISTORY of the BE are SU, GT, UConn, Pitt and Nova. No one else really comes close to any length of success or great national prominence ( the Mullin teams were good for SJU, but since then, ?)
I for one will miss the Big East, and as a basketball guy I rue the American culture that worships football and has brought about the destruction of the BE. I hope you guys land on your feet.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree that Syracuse is the "face" of the Big East. Travel the country a bit and you'll find your answer. I am on planes every week and end up talking to college basketball fans from all over. Also, I live in college basketball country in NC. There really is little doubt that when impartial fans think of The Big East, UConn is the first program that comes to mind.

Also, I don't feel it is that The Big East couldn't survive the loss of Syracuse as much as it couldn't survive the sum of all the defections. If UConn was leaving instead of SU the result would be the same.

 

[Buzzyboy]

With all due respect to UConn's post season achievements, which are clearly the best of the lot, the conference history is just that, the history of the entire conference, not just starting when UConn became good. Syracuse IS the face of the Big East, on a national level and from start to finish, its best program.
The Big East survived the first defections, it could not survive Syracuse leaving. The greatest programs in the HISTORY of the BE are SU, GT, UConn, Pitt and Nova. No one else really comes close to any length of success or great national prominence ( the Mullin teams were good for SJU, but since then, ?)
I for one will miss the Big East, and as a basketball guy I rue the American culture that worships football and has brought about the destruction of the BE. I hope you guys land on your feet.

Syracuse and Georgetown were consistently good throughout their Big East but UConn from 1990 on was GREAT!!!!!!!!!! Syracuse was very often underachievers despite having better talent than any team througout the history of the Big East. What little they did with SO MUCH makes them anything but the best team in Big East history. The conference dominance that UConn had, the amount of conference championships, Big East tournament championships is amazing, particularly when you take into account their less than stellar first 10 years. They still manage to have more overall conference and tournament championships than Syracuse and with no where near the level of talent of Syracuse. More stars were DEVELOPED at UConn than at Syracuse by a long shot. A lot of storied high school talent went to Syracuse and never developed and that says volumes for the differences in the two schools. UConn is easily the best of the best in Big East history.

 

[babysheep]

HAHAHAHA using the regular season. That's like trying to argue that Peyton Manning is a better quarterback than Tom Brady. And even if Peyton won another championship, there still wouldn't be a debate.

, Cuse fans are pathetic.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

UConn Syracuse, head to head since the 1979/1980 inaugural Big East Basketball season.

Big East Regular Season Championships: UConn 10 - Syracuse 10;
Big East Tournament Championships: UConn 7 - Syracuse 5

National Championships: UConn 3 - Syracuse 1
Final 4s: UConn 4 - Syracuse 3
Elite 8s: UConn 9 - Syracuse 5
Sweet 16s: Syracuse 14 - UConn 13
NCAA Appearances: Syracuse 26 - UConn 18

Just look at the numbers. Show these numbers to any unbiased college basketball fan and ask them point blank which program was better since 1979/1980.

 

[Hume]

You also have to consider Big East Champions. Uconn has 7 vs 5 for Syracuse in Big East Championships. They both have 10 regular season titles and Uconn has 3 versus 1 NCAA Championships. So even if Syracuse wins the regular season title, Big East Championship and National Championship, they will trail in 2 of the 3 categories, with only regular season championships being in their advantage. However, when people look up the records Big East Championships, like National Championships are decided in the respective tournaments. So even if, which considering Syracuse's history is a very big if, they did win both they would still be behind Uconn 7 to 6 and 3 to 2 respectively. So no matter how you look at it Uconn is #1. I know of no sport where they say the best team is the one that wins the most regular season games (not even college football anymore). You become the best by winning the most championships. By your standards most regular season wins, then Temple and St. Johns are better programs than UCLA and Indiana as they have more wins.

 

[Ts5034]

I cant stand it when people try to diminish UConn's accomplishments. The fact that UConn is the only Big East team to win multiple national championships puts them on another level. Its not even up for debate.

 

[jleves]

So even if Syracuse wins the regular season title, Big East Championship and National Championship, they will trail in 2 of the 3 categories, with only regular season championships being in their advantage.

Ummm - It's Syracuse we're talking about, so while they might get the regular season title, the other two are pretty much out of the question.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Looking at the record books from the inception of Big East play in 1979 until now, UConn is the most accomplished team among its peers by any statistical measure. More importantly to my pride in the program, UConn has also been the most compelling national story in the conference for most of that history - from The Shot in '90 to The Streak in '11. UConn stole the show, b!tches.

 

[jleves]

Looking at this solely within conference:

Georgetown was the best conference team in the 80s, with Syracuse and St. Johns vying for second and third.
UConn was clearly the best team in the conference in the 90s, with Syracuse clearly second.
Pitt was the best team in the conference in the 21st century winning 4 regular season titles and 2 BET with UConn and SU nip and tuck for second and third.

We'll give GT the 80s.
We agree on UConn for the 90s.
As for Pitt the best since 2000, well we'll disagree. Both had 4 regular season titles and 2 BET - that's a wash. Pitt had 5 sweet 16's, UConn 6. Pitt had 1 Elite 8, UConn 5. Pitt had, well, zero and NCs, UConn had 3 & 2.

Cuse is actually arguably the 2nd best since 2000 with 4 regular season titles, 1 BET, 6 sweet 16's, 2 elite 8's, 1 ff and 1 NC. (clearly better than Pitt, but not quite UConn)

So if you think being the 2nd or 3rd best team for three decades makes you the face of the Big East compared to a team that has dominated for two decades with more National Championships, more BETs and the same number of regular season titles, sleep well with that. I'll take the big wins over the small one's all day long.

 

[orangehomer]

at the end of the day, no one gives an F. like it or not, syracuse was the face of the conference and now the conference is dead. that's it. move on and write whatever you want about it.

 

[upstater]

at the end of the day, no one gives an F. like it or not, syracuse was the face of the conference and now the conference is dead. that's it. move on and write whatever you want about it.

Everywhere around the country I travel, UConn is the blue blood, not Cuse. Sorry, Boeheim is known everywhere as the guy who coached for generations and only managed to win once. That's what people think of Cuse. The BE is not known for underperforming. And that's Syracuse's MO.

 

[OkaForPrez]

at the end of the day, no one gives an F. like it or not, syracuse was the face of the conference and now the conference is dead. that's it. move on and write whatever you want about it.

He's right guys. We're talking about national perception here. And as we all know, the entire country stops watching after the sweet 16, because at that point only the luckiest team wins. People really remember consistent regular season wins and #1 rankings. Especially if you sell T shirts.

 

[Jerry1714]

at the end of the day, no one gives an F. like it or not, syracuse was the face of the conference and now the conference is dead. that's it. move on and write whatever you want about it.

Thank you for coming over and embarrassing yourself. Just another example of how unintelligent syracuse fans are.

 

[Huskies4ever]

at the end of the day, no one gives an F. like it or not, syracuse was the face of the conference and now the conference is dead. that's it. move on and write whatever you want about it.

Silly. Syracuse was the face of the conference over 20 years ago, maybe. That's it. Move on and write whatever you want about it.

 

[Huskies4ever]

We'll give GT the 80s.
We agree on UConn for the 90s.
As for Pitt the best since 2000, well we'll disagree. Both had 4 regular season titles and 2 BET - that's a wash. Pitt had 5 sweet 16's, UConn 6. Pitt had 1 Elite 8, UConn 5. Pitt had, well, zero and NCs, UConn had 3 & 2.

Cuse is actually arguably the 2nd best since 2000 with 4 regular season titles, 1 BET, 6 sweet 16's, 2 elite 8's, 1 ff and 1 NC. (clearly better than Pitt, but not quite UConn)

So if you think being the 2nd or 3rd best team for three decades makes you the face of the Big East compared to a team that has dominated for two decades with more National Championships, more BETs and the same number of regular season titles, sleep well with that. I'll take the big wins over the small one's all day long.

Very well put, jleves. Even if you were to give Syracuse the '80's, UConn gets 1990-2011. Let's factor in NBA players during these three decades, and it is not even close. Syracuse is like that 50 year old woman who wears Pink pants, and has a nose ring, and is like 30 years removed from attractiveness, trying to recapture their youth.

BTW, I don't understand where Pitt came into the equation as the best in the last decade?

 

[ConnHuskBask]

at the end of the day, no one gives an F. like it or not, syracuse was the face of the conference and now the conference is dead. that's it. move on and write whatever you want about it.

Yeah, and the Boston Red Sox are the face of the American League.

As much as our conference situation sucks, I take solace in the fact that I know deep down it absolutely burns every single Syracuse fan to the core that UConn has 3 National Championships and they only have 1.

 

[caw]

Cuse has been the most consistent, not ever the best. I don't think you can name a decade Cuse was ever the best.

They have been consistently 2nd, 3rd or 4th though.

In terms of national perception. UConn falls just behind Duke, UK, KU, UNC, UCLA and Indiana in terms of being elite in men's basketball, perception. Cuse is slightly lower, behind MSU, UL and maybe one or two others, but clearly somewhere 10-15 at the worst.

In terms of conference, UConn spotted Cuse 10 years and still has more conference titles (combined, tied for regular season and 2 ahead for tournament). Cuse was never the face of the BE.

Cuse, consistently good, one time/year great, never truly elite.

There is a huge gap between programs that have won zero NC and 1, there is a big gap between those that have 1 and 2. There is even a bigger gap between those who have won 2 and those who have 3+.

 

[caw]

Yeah, and the Boston Red Sox are the face of the American League.

As much as our conference situation sucks, I take solace in the fact that I know deep down it absolutely burns every single Syracuse fan to the core that UConn has 3 National Championships and they only have 1.

Red Sox win more often than Cuse.

 

[Huskies4ever]

We'll give GT the 80s.
We agree on UConn for the 90s.
As for Pitt the best since 2000, well we'll disagree. Both had 4 regular season titles and 2 BET - that's a wash. Pitt had 5 sweet 16's, UConn 6. Pitt had 1 Elite 8, UConn 5. Pitt had, well, zero and NCs, UConn had 3 & 2.

Now that I think about it jleves, this is the logic of a Cuse fan.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Red Sox win more often than Cuse.

Don't forget the Helms National Titles from 1918 and 1926!