Weight room

[intlzncster]

You are on the wrong side of history again. KO has now acknowledged I was right about the team needing to get physically stronger. Travis is a PhD and has his professional theories and they are light on the importance of brute force strength in basketball. I have given him credit on flexibility training - I do think that has reduced injuries and the conditioning program is ok. But, Brimah running steps is not stopping him from being knocked on his butt.
Truth is I was 100% right about this and only an angry person without the ability of objective reason would dispute that after the KU game.

As for my friendship with Clyde - I won't apologize for that. I also don't apologize for saying BC should have hired JC a couple years ago - they messed up. I don't dislike Glen Miller - I have known and liked him for years. I think he is a good and competent coach. He is not a Big Man's coach and doesn't even actively assume that role during the games. You never see him actively coaching a Big up during a game - the best time to have their attention. I also have a different view of his love of zone defenses. Unless you are very committed to consistently practicing zones which if you have been able to go to a few practices this season - you know they haven't - it won't work. KO called Glen's zone off after one play when KU hit the foul line jumper - that's not a commitment to it. Perhaps if Glen was a head coach somewhere he would consistently practice his beloved zones and they would work. I have been at games this year when we switch to a match up zone and we confuse ourselves more than the other team. KO has said he likes the idea of having this in his toolbox - but he has too much Calhoun influence in him to really buy into it.

And yet we won a NC with Travis. The players, who know far, far, far better than you or I, directly credit Travis's work in the offseason as the reason they were able to win in the tournament. They were in superior shape to UK.

What you are saying RE power/strength about Travis isn't founded on anything.

Every single person connected to UCONN basketball in anyway realizes we need to get stronger. It's not a revelation. The problem is the guys we have aren't made for it. Brimah is not going to fill out until maybe his late 20s, if at all. His body and frame simply aren't built that way. Facey and Hamilton as well. They are just thin guys. Let's see if Enoch fills out. Zach Brown. Those guys have the frame for it.

Power, strength, and flexibility go hand in hand. One accentuates the other. It's not an either or proposition.

 

[ctchamps]

I know that this is just another one of your Chiefean arguments, like the co-ed scrimmage, that people like to laugh at while you think they're agreeing with you, but even accepting your premise is idiotic.

Even if we assumed for a second that the gymnastics thing is relevant -which it's not - what is it about that sport that makes you think the focus is "flexibility and conditioning"? Have you ever seen a gymnast? Conditioning? For when they're required to do 3 miles of backflips?

If there's one thing that gymnasts don't lack it's "power strength," whatever that means. They tend to be built like brick sh_thouses. It's like you're confusing gymnastics with distance running or something.

But of course the gymnastics thing is irrelevant, it's just another bizarre thing that makes you the lovable Boneyard psychopath.

Illian is literally a Ph D in this s__t. He knows what he's doing. That you, the guy who makes up stories about hanging out with people who are literally in a different state, can't comprehend that a guy who previously worked with one set of athletes can work with another doesn't mean it's not true.

Your argument could have begun and ended with the guys doing rings and pummel horses.
Have to be some of the strongest dudes out there.

 

[Pudge]

It would be nice if Kentan could, I don't know, improve his game just a tick for next year? Whether that's in the weight room, jump shot, rebounding, defense or all of the above. It's like he plateaued at the age of 17.

I disagree. Actually, Kentan Facey has improved ... fairly noticeably since Nov. 2014 when we first put him in the starting lineup. He is more polished and useful. Can he start next year if given the shot? Maybe. At that POINT, he could get passed by Enoch or Mamadou may prove to be a more effective fit.

 

[Gurleyman]

Quite frankly, I think Chief is using "analysis" as a front for him to air his grievances against staffers he has personal problems with. It's clear that Clyde was a close friend of his, and that he has a bad personal relationship with Illian and G. Miller. Part of me is fascinated to hear about the origins of his beef with those two.

Funny you should bring this up. "Chief's Beefs" was the next phase of our branding strategy. Look for the rollout coming soon!

 

[mauconnfan]

I disagree. Actually, Kentan Facey has improved ... fairly noticeably since Nov. 2014 when we first put him in the starting lineup. He is more polished and useful. Can he start next year if given the shot? Maybe. At that POINT, he could get passed by Enoch or Mamadou may prove to be a more effective fit.

He has improved as an offensive rebounder due to the fact he just goes to get it and can fly. As a defensive rounder he is still caught late with back to the basket as he's fighting for position or to box out, late a lot due to not reading the shooter. But he did some nice things coming off the bench, but I think if he's starting it's not a great sign for us.

 

[Palatine]

Both Brimah and Facey need to get stronger. Yeah, they are stronger than when they started here. But their needs are different.

Brimah used to lose the ball every time he got bumped. For him, the upper body needs work especially his hands and arms. He needs to be able to be able to hold the ball. Control it on rebounds. Be able to snatch the ball and put it away. He could add a little weight but that's not what will make him better.

Facey needs to improve his base. Guys go right through him. He has to build up his legs and butt. He needs strength and pounds. Weight means more to him. He should also work on his explosion. Once again that is a below the waist issue.

Yes, both will naturally benefit by being a year older and stronger. Facey is actually older than Brimah by a few months but both are in their early 20's and have some filling out to do. It will happen. But to address their strength needs, they need to work on different things.

 

[Chief00]

He has improved as an offensive rebounder due to the fact he just goes to get it and can fly. As a defensive rounder he is still caught late with back to the basket as he's fighting for position or to box out, late a lot due to not reading the shooter. But he did some nice things coming off the bench, but I think if he's starting it's not a great sign for us.

Facey missed box outs as the inside guy on foul shots in each of the last two games - JC would have iced him on the bench for that.

 

[sledog]

I got a lot of crap for suggesting AB do a big boy camp last year - and, QED..

On his footwork, wasn't he touted has having great footwork due to his soccer experience? what's with that?

This year? Better late than never, or is it too late.

 

[Chief00]

The problem is when you bring in stringbeans it's pretty hard for them to put on serious weight and muscle that lasts all season. With a pretty serious off season weight program you can put on weight and muscle but once the season starts you are going to lose some of those gains with all the constant running and traveling. Just maybe focus on bringing in a couple bruisers sometimes. Enoch and Diarra should be a start.

I am having fun taking on all these arguments.
NEXT: The string bean body type can't develop.

Quite frankly, people forget Kirk King, Hilton and Emeka all had a skinny body types on day one - but they consistently lifted barbell weights like men do and got much bigger and tougher. Ben Gordon also changed his body type to much more muscular. The current guys are not self motivated enough in this area and the position coach and strength coach are not providing the proper guidance or motivation.

 

[Chief00]

I got a lot of crap for suggesting AB do a big boy camp last year - and, QED..

On his footwork, wasn't he touted has having great footwork due to his soccer experience? what's with that?

This year? Better late than never, or is it too late.

Yeah, I agree soccer is not a usually a crossover sport with basketball.

 

[intlzncster]

I got a lot of crap for suggesting AB do a big boy camp last year - and, QED..

Who the hell gave you crap for that? Someone actually recommended against a Big Man camp?

 

[Dave]

Kirk King had a skinny body type? Really?? I must be mis remembering.

 

[intlzncster]

I am having fun taking on all these arguments.
NEXT: The string bean body type can't develop.

Quite frankly, people forget Kirk King, Hilton and Emeka all had a skinny body types on day one - but they consistently lifted barbell weights like men do and got much bigger and tougher. Ben Gordon also changed his body type to much more muscular. The current guys are not self motivated enough in this area and the position coach and strength coach are not providing the proper guidance or motivation.

Chief, it has to do with frame. All those guys had frames made for filling out. If you think everyone's physical potential for filling out is the same, you are completely out of your mind. Like Bonkers.

Same reason only some guys can be professional weight lifters. If everybody in the world lifted the same amount, there would be just as great a variation in body types as now (not at the margins).

These guys all lift weights. There were reports of Amida spending a lot of time in the weight room: he still didn't fill out.

 

[Chief00]

Chief, it has to do with frame. All those guys had frames made for filling out. If you think everyone's physical potential for filling out is the same, you are completely out of your mind. Like Bonkers.

Same reason only some guys can be professional weight lifters. If everybody in the world lifted the same amount, there would be just as great a variation in body types as now (not at the margins).

These guys all lift weights. There were reports of Amida spending a lot of time in the weight room: he still didn't fill out.

I understand the frame thing but hanging out in the weight room and actually lifting barbells and not the sissy toner stuff makes a difference - Facey and Hamilton definitely could fill out some.

 

[Stainmaster]

Who the hell gave you crap for that? Someone actually recommended against a Big Man camp?

No, people gave crap for the sheer volume of "Brimah needs to go to big boy camp" posts he made. @tcf15 composed a nice little summary.

 

[Horatio]

Chief, it has to do with frame. All those guys had frames made for filling out. If you think everyone's physical potential for filling out is the same, you are completely out of your mind. Like Bonkers.

Same reason only some guys can be professional weight lifters. If everybody in the world lifted the same amount, there would be just as great a variation in body types as now (not at the margins).

These guys all lift weights. There were reports of Amida spending a lot of time in the weight room: he still didn't fill out.

Exactly. Amida and Facey did get more muscular but adding weight is another story. Plus, if you factor in the amount of running that these guys do and the amount of weight they probably lose during practice and games , it's probably
Impossible for them to put on weight. It's body type. Maybe we need to recruit at least one kid that looks like this kid. Lol

 

[tcf15]

Who the hell gave you crap for that? Someone actually recommended against a Big Man camp?

No, people gave crap for the sheer volume of "Brimah needs to go to big boy camp" posts he made. @tcf15 composed a nice little summary.

http://the-boneyard.com/threads/summer-camps-for-dham-brimah-jalen-adams.78050/page-3#post-1358018

 

[JMick]

View attachment 12721

Exactly. Amida and Facey did get more muscular but adding weight is another story. Plus, if you factor in the amount of running that these guys do and the amount of weight they probably lose during practice and games , it's probably
Impossible for them to put on weight. It's body type. Maybe we need to recruit at least one kid that looks like this kid. Lol

Then the nutritionist is not doing their jobs. I'm sorry, it is not that hard to put on weight and put on muscle over the span of three years when you're supposed to have access to top shelf nutritionists and top shelf weight training programs. Either the food program is bad, the weight program is bad, or the players aren't dedicated enough. Maybe it's a mix of all three. But anyone can gain mass and muscle and it has nothing to do with body type. You can't grow broad shoulders but you can grow mass with what you have to work with.

 

[Horatio]

Then the nutritionist is not doing their jobs. I'm sorry, it is not that hard to put on weight and put on muscle over the span of three years when you're supposed to have access to top shelf nutritionists and top shelf weight training programs. Either the food program is bad, the weight program is bad, or the players aren't dedicated enough. Maybe it's a mix of all three. But anyone can gain mass and muscle and it has nothing to do with body type. You can't grow broad shoulders but you can grow mass with what you have to work with.

Ok. Fair points and I'm sure KO and the staff will develop and put work into that area.

 

[intlzncster]

http://the-boneyard.com/threads/summer-camps-for-dham-brimah-jalen-adams.78050/page-3#post-1358018

lmao. text book def of belaboring a point.

 

[pnow15]

If Brimah and Facey are sent to summer camps, I hope there are a lot of cute girls around, 'cause that is the only way these two are going to score regularly and they may learn to rebound from a broken heart. Otherwise, we need a graduate transfer for next season.
The problem has always been between the ears and there is no weight program for that. DHam gets plenty of rebounds and he is the skinniest kid on the team.

 

[huskyharry]

Yep, people are acting like you are going to turn Facey into Jeff Adrien. What Facey and Brimah have is pretty close to what you'll get, for the next couple of years anyway (metabolism eventually changes). These kids are string beans genetically.

You can't turn a grey hound into a bulldog by sticking him in the weight room.

Last year, I deployed to the Middle East with a Marine unit. We had several Marines who started the deployment with Facey-type physiques and had no illicit PEDs....only protein powder type stuff, but hit the weight room everyday. By the end of 7 months they looked more like Omar Calhoun-physiques.
Matt Barnes was a string bean in college and does not look like a body builder either but he gained the strength he needed and never gets pushed around the way our guys were this season.
I'm really pulling for our guys, but they need to put in the work to get the results!

 

[intlzncster]

Last year, I deployed to the Middle East with a Marine unit. We had several Marines who started the deployment with Facey-type physiques and had no illicit PEDs....only protein powder type stuff, but hit the weight room everyday. By the end of 7 months they looked more like Omar Calhoun-physiques.
Matt Barnes was a string bean in college and does not look like a body builder either but he gained the strength he needed and never gets pushed around the way our guys were this season.
I'm really pulling for our guys, but they need to put in the work to get the results!

So you are cherry picking a few people you knew, and one player, and saying that disproves the point? Young Reggie Miller or Tayshaun Prince are closer to our guys bulk than Barnes. Why didn't they fill out early too? Did they not put in the work? And how many of your marines were 7' tall? I'm willing to bet none. It's way, way, way harder to stack on weight and muscle in that type of frame. The amount of calories required alone is staggering, not even taking into account the ridiculous conditioning.

Barnes got older, his metabolism slowed, his body allowing him to pick up weight. And he's a professional who spends all of his time, when not beating up Derek Fisher, training. He's got access to the best nutrition and supplements (potentially drugs) on the planet. The best trainers, cooks, equipment, etc. It's a 24/7 job. It's not for these kids.

I'm not saying it's not possible, but certain guys have way more potential than others. Both Facey and Brimah have put on some weight since they got here; it's just they didn't start with much at all and therefore doesn't show. And unfortunately, running up and down the court 7 days a week for 6 months a year burns a lot off. Coupled with classes/studying instead of 24/7 training....a tall thin rail is at a real disadvantage.

 

[7774]

Virtually every game (except vs the low level teams) for many years has looked like its men vs boys
Its the body type that UConn recruits/attracts - the Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton wing types
UConn needs to go after the REAL big guys - if you are going after a stringbean project like AB, why not make it a project that looks like a D1 center?
Physically - Many teams look like they recruit from a mens league while UConn looks like they raid the CYO league

Yeah, we've only won 4 national championships in the last 20 years with our approach. We should definitely do what those other teams are doing.

 

[kemba]

Then the nutritionist is not doing their jobs. I'm sorry, it is not that hard to put on weight and put on muscle over the span of three years when you're supposed to have access to top shelf nutritionists and top shelf weight training programs. Either the food program is bad, the weight program is bad, or the players aren't dedicated enough. Maybe it's a mix of all three. But anyone can gain mass and muscle and it has nothing to do with body type. You can't grow broad shoulders but you can grow mass with what you have to work with.

It is pretty tough when you are close to 7 feet tall, when you also have to remain in great cardiovascular shape, and have to work on your game too. Couple that with the fact that most players lose weight during the season because of how intense the schedule is, so its not like weight gain is linear.

 

[Horatio]

So you are cherry picking a few people you knew, and one player, and saying that disproves the point? Young Reggie Miller or Tayshaun Prince are closer to our guys bulk than Barnes. Why didn't they fill out early too? Did they not put in the work? And how many of your marines were 7' tall? I'm willing to bet none. It's way, way, way harder to stack on weight and muscle in that type of frame. The amount of calories required alone is staggering, not even taking into account the ridiculous conditioning.

Barnes got older, his metabolism slowed, his body allowing him to pick up weight. And he's a professional who spends all of his time, when not beating up Derek Fisher, training. He's got access to the best nutrition and supplements (potentially drugs) on the planet. The best trainers, cooks, equipment, etc. It's a 24/7 job. It's not for these kids.

I'm not saying it's not possible, but certain guys have way more potential than others. Both Facey and Brimah have put on some weight since they got here; it's just they didn't start with much at all and therefore doesn't show. And unfortunately, running up and down the court 7 days a week for 6 months a year burns a lot off. Coupled with classes/studying instead of 24/7 training....a tall thin rail is at a real disadvantage.

Metabolism is the key. People should look at the " weight" that Donyell Marshall gained in the pros. How did that turn out. Or, did Rip, Durant , iverson, etc. actually get that much bigger in the pro's or did their metabolism slow down. It varies from person to person . That
Rapid weight gain, weight lifting stuff leads to increased injuries for some people . Again, Facey and Brimah have gotten more muscular and fill out their jerseys better then when they got here. Jeremy even put on muscle and a little weight his second year but at their age if your recruited as a string bean , after 1-2 or 3 years , your just gonna be a more muscular string bean.

 

[dennismenace]

So you are cherry picking a few people you knew, and one player, and saying that disproves the point? Young Reggie Miller or Tayshaun Prince are closer to our guys bulk than Barnes. Why didn't they fill out early too? Did they not put in the work? And how many of your marines were 7' tall? I'm willing to bet none. It's way, way, way harder to stack on weight and muscle in that type of frame. The amount of calories required alone is staggering, not even taking into account the ridiculous conditioning.

Barnes got older, his metabolism slowed, his body allowing him to pick up weight. And he's a professional who spends all of his time, when not beating up Derek Fisher, training. He's got access to the best nutrition and supplements (potentially drugs) on the planet. The best trainers, cooks, equipment, etc. It's a 24/7 job. It's not for these kids.

I'm not saying it's not possible, but certain guys have way more potential than others. Both Facey and Brimah have put on some weight since they got here; it's just they didn't start with much at all and therefore doesn't show. And unfortunately, running up and down the court 7 days a week for 6 months a year burns a lot off. Coupled with classes/studying instead of 24/7 training....a tall thin rail is at a real disadvantage.

This is an interesting subject. I played sports (mainly soccer) and worked on a farm (heavy labor) and lifted weights in HS. Was in good shape at about 140 -145 through HS.
After college went into the military and in basic training in KY in July and August (very hot) I gained about 23lbs to 168 in 10 weeks. Muscle is heavy. Constant marching (often 14 miles a day) with field packs, rifles etc. running, calisthenics (especially pushups, their favorite) and eating 3 large meals a day and not too much sleep. What was interesting was that we had guys who were like 110 lbs to 270lbs. At the end of training everyone was pretty much between 145-185. In order to complete the regimen you would have to burn off fat and pack on muscle or you would be recycled. My nephew is a s and c guy with a D1 school and he said the military, through trial and error had pretty much figured it out to get what they wanted in a soldier physically. The other thing that makes a difference is the level of testosterone an individual possesses (naturally) that can help increase
muscle mass. It can be boosted naturally so much. The rest is hereditary I guess. I would think that the metabolic rate of someone who is 21 or so is pretty high and I am told that strength peaks in the 27-30 range so it can be very hard to put on weight with a basketball regimen. It would be interesting to find out if the athletes at UConn are TRACKED as to their diet as well as their workout routines in the gym. Many D1 programs do this to be sure they are following the plan to get them to the desired weights goals. Don't want to sound like a politician but there is truth to both sides of this debate!

 

[intlzncster]

This is an interesting subject. I played sports (mainly soccer) and worked on a farm (heavy labor) and lifted weights in HS. Was in good shape at about 140 -145 through HS.
After college went into the military and in basic training in KY in July and August (very hot) I gained about 23lbs to 168 in 10 weeks. Muscle is heavy. Constant marching (often 14 miles a day) with field packs, rifles etc. running, calisthenics (especially pushups, their favorite) and eating 3 large meals a day and not too much sleep. What was interesting was that we had guys who were like 110 lbs to 270lbs. At the end of training everyone was pretty much between 145-185. In order to complete the regimen you would have to burn off fat and pack on muscle or you would be recycled. My nephew is a s and c guy with a D1 school and he said the military, through trial and error had pretty much figured it out to get what they wanted in a soldier physically. The other thing that makes a difference is the level of testosterone an individual possesses (naturally) that can help increase
muscle mass. It can be boosted naturally so much. The rest is hereditary I guess. I would think that the metabolic rate of someone who is 21 or so is pretty high and I am told that strength peaks in the 27-30 range so it can be very hard to put on weight with a basketball regimen. It would be interesting to find out if the athletes at UConn are TRACKED as to their diet as well as their workout routines in the gym. Many D1 programs do this to be sure they are following the plan to get them to the desired weights goals. Don't want to sound like a politician but there is truth to both sides of this debate!

No, absolutely. I wasn't totally discounting what the others were saying. But I would point out again, that there were probably no 7 footers in your platoon(?). Your range of heights was definitely smaller than a basketball team's.

Also, you said, "we had guys who were like 110 lbs to 270lbs. At the end of training everyone was pretty much between 145-185. ". The drop for the heavier guys would be because of the conditioning. Basketball players get that conditioning, but are expected to keep that heavy weight (through muscle). It's a tough balance. Very difficult to do for those ectomorphs (for lack of a better term).

 

[JMick]

Metabolism is the key. People should look at the " weight" that Donyell Marshall gained in the pros. How did that turn out. Or, did Rip, Durant , iverson, etc. actually get that much bigger in the pro's or did their metabolism slow down. It varies from person to person . That
Rapid weight gain, weight lifting stuff leads to increased injuries for some people . Again, Facey and Brimah have gotten more muscular and fill out their jerseys better then when they got here. Jeremy even put on muscle and a little weight his second year but at their age if your recruited as a string bean , after 1-2 or 3 years , your just gonna be a more muscular string bean.

Metabolism is not the key, as it's been shown in scientific studies that "quicker" metabolisms burn only about 100 more calories per day then their "slower" metabolism counterparts. These are guys working out and running so often that they probably need 6000-8000 calories per day in order to put on mass. If they're not gaining weight while working out vigorously it's because they're not eating enough. Michael Phelps had to eat 10000 calories/day in order to gain weight. Genetics and testosterone levels will effect where mass is gained and how quickly it is gained, but we're talking about 3 years guys...

 

[dennismenace]

When athletes are trying to gain mass and weight don't they normally schedule this activity in the off season vs during regular in season training?
This then would also require the training and monitoring of the workouts and diet to reach the plan, correct? So for football this would be in the spring and
basketball in the summer I would guess?