Weight room

[pnow15]

If Brimah and Facey are sent to summer camps, I hope there are a lot of cute girls around, 'cause that is the only way these two are going to score regularly and they may learn to rebound from a broken heart. Otherwise, we need a graduate transfer for next season.
The problem has always been between the ears and there is no weight program for that. DHam gets plenty of rebounds and he is the skinniest kid on the team.

 

[huskyharry]

Yep, people are acting like you are going to turn Facey into Jeff Adrien. What Facey and Brimah have is pretty close to what you'll get, for the next couple of years anyway (metabolism eventually changes). These kids are string beans genetically.

You can't turn a grey hound into a bulldog by sticking him in the weight room.

Last year, I deployed to the Middle East with a Marine unit. We had several Marines who started the deployment with Facey-type physiques and had no illicit PEDs....only protein powder type stuff, but hit the weight room everyday. By the end of 7 months they looked more like Omar Calhoun-physiques.
Matt Barnes was a string bean in college and does not look like a body builder either but he gained the strength he needed and never gets pushed around the way our guys were this season.
I'm really pulling for our guys, but they need to put in the work to get the results!

 

[intlzncster]

Last year, I deployed to the Middle East with a Marine unit. We had several Marines who started the deployment with Facey-type physiques and had no illicit PEDs....only protein powder type stuff, but hit the weight room everyday. By the end of 7 months they looked more like Omar Calhoun-physiques.
Matt Barnes was a string bean in college and does not look like a body builder either but he gained the strength he needed and never gets pushed around the way our guys were this season.
I'm really pulling for our guys, but they need to put in the work to get the results!

So you are cherry picking a few people you knew, and one player, and saying that disproves the point? Young Reggie Miller or Tayshaun Prince are closer to our guys bulk than Barnes. Why didn't they fill out early too? Did they not put in the work? And how many of your marines were 7' tall? I'm willing to bet none. It's way, way, way harder to stack on weight and muscle in that type of frame. The amount of calories required alone is staggering, not even taking into account the ridiculous conditioning.

Barnes got older, his metabolism slowed, his body allowing him to pick up weight. And he's a professional who spends all of his time, when not beating up Derek Fisher, training. He's got access to the best nutrition and supplements (potentially drugs) on the planet. The best trainers, cooks, equipment, etc. It's a 24/7 job. It's not for these kids.

I'm not saying it's not possible, but certain guys have way more potential than others. Both Facey and Brimah have put on some weight since they got here; it's just they didn't start with much at all and therefore doesn't show. And unfortunately, running up and down the court 7 days a week for 6 months a year burns a lot off. Coupled with classes/studying instead of 24/7 training....a tall thin rail is at a real disadvantage.

 

[7774]

Virtually every game (except vs the low level teams) for many years has looked like its men vs boys
Its the body type that UConn recruits/attracts - the Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton wing types
UConn needs to go after the REAL big guys - if you are going after a stringbean project like AB, why not make it a project that looks like a D1 center?
Physically - Many teams look like they recruit from a mens league while UConn looks like they raid the CYO league

Yeah, we've only won 4 national championships in the last 20 years with our approach. We should definitely do what those other teams are doing.

 

[kemba]

Then the nutritionist is not doing their jobs. I'm sorry, it is not that hard to put on weight and put on muscle over the span of three years when you're supposed to have access to top shelf nutritionists and top shelf weight training programs. Either the food program is bad, the weight program is bad, or the players aren't dedicated enough. Maybe it's a mix of all three. But anyone can gain mass and muscle and it has nothing to do with body type. You can't grow broad shoulders but you can grow mass with what you have to work with.

It is pretty tough when you are close to 7 feet tall, when you also have to remain in great cardiovascular shape, and have to work on your game too. Couple that with the fact that most players lose weight during the season because of how intense the schedule is, so its not like weight gain is linear.

 

[Horatio]

So you are cherry picking a few people you knew, and one player, and saying that disproves the point? Young Reggie Miller or Tayshaun Prince are closer to our guys bulk than Barnes. Why didn't they fill out early too? Did they not put in the work? And how many of your marines were 7' tall? I'm willing to bet none. It's way, way, way harder to stack on weight and muscle in that type of frame. The amount of calories required alone is staggering, not even taking into account the ridiculous conditioning.

Barnes got older, his metabolism slowed, his body allowing him to pick up weight. And he's a professional who spends all of his time, when not beating up Derek Fisher, training. He's got access to the best nutrition and supplements (potentially drugs) on the planet. The best trainers, cooks, equipment, etc. It's a 24/7 job. It's not for these kids.

I'm not saying it's not possible, but certain guys have way more potential than others. Both Facey and Brimah have put on some weight since they got here; it's just they didn't start with much at all and therefore doesn't show. And unfortunately, running up and down the court 7 days a week for 6 months a year burns a lot off. Coupled with classes/studying instead of 24/7 training....a tall thin rail is at a real disadvantage.

Metabolism is the key. People should look at the " weight" that Donyell Marshall gained in the pros. How did that turn out. Or, did Rip, Durant , iverson, etc. actually get that much bigger in the pro's or did their metabolism slow down. It varies from person to person . That
Rapid weight gain, weight lifting stuff leads to increased injuries for some people . Again, Facey and Brimah have gotten more muscular and fill out their jerseys better then when they got here. Jeremy even put on muscle and a little weight his second year but at their age if your recruited as a string bean , after 1-2 or 3 years , your just gonna be a more muscular string bean.

 

[dennismenace]

So you are cherry picking a few people you knew, and one player, and saying that disproves the point? Young Reggie Miller or Tayshaun Prince are closer to our guys bulk than Barnes. Why didn't they fill out early too? Did they not put in the work? And how many of your marines were 7' tall? I'm willing to bet none. It's way, way, way harder to stack on weight and muscle in that type of frame. The amount of calories required alone is staggering, not even taking into account the ridiculous conditioning.

Barnes got older, his metabolism slowed, his body allowing him to pick up weight. And he's a professional who spends all of his time, when not beating up Derek Fisher, training. He's got access to the best nutrition and supplements (potentially drugs) on the planet. The best trainers, cooks, equipment, etc. It's a 24/7 job. It's not for these kids.

I'm not saying it's not possible, but certain guys have way more potential than others. Both Facey and Brimah have put on some weight since they got here; it's just they didn't start with much at all and therefore doesn't show. And unfortunately, running up and down the court 7 days a week for 6 months a year burns a lot off. Coupled with classes/studying instead of 24/7 training....a tall thin rail is at a real disadvantage.

This is an interesting subject. I played sports (mainly soccer) and worked on a farm (heavy labor) and lifted weights in HS. Was in good shape at about 140 -145 through HS.
After college went into the military and in basic training in KY in July and August (very hot) I gained about 23lbs to 168 in 10 weeks. Muscle is heavy. Constant marching (often 14 miles a day) with field packs, rifles etc. running, calisthenics (especially pushups, their favorite) and eating 3 large meals a day and not too much sleep. What was interesting was that we had guys who were like 110 lbs to 270lbs. At the end of training everyone was pretty much between 145-185. In order to complete the regimen you would have to burn off fat and pack on muscle or you would be recycled. My nephew is a s and c guy with a D1 school and he said the military, through trial and error had pretty much figured it out to get what they wanted in a soldier physically. The other thing that makes a difference is the level of testosterone an individual possesses (naturally) that can help increase
muscle mass. It can be boosted naturally so much. The rest is hereditary I guess. I would think that the metabolic rate of someone who is 21 or so is pretty high and I am told that strength peaks in the 27-30 range so it can be very hard to put on weight with a basketball regimen. It would be interesting to find out if the athletes at UConn are TRACKED as to their diet as well as their workout routines in the gym. Many D1 programs do this to be sure they are following the plan to get them to the desired weights goals. Don't want to sound like a politician but there is truth to both sides of this debate!

 

[intlzncster]

This is an interesting subject. I played sports (mainly soccer) and worked on a farm (heavy labor) and lifted weights in HS. Was in good shape at about 140 -145 through HS.
After college went into the military and in basic training in KY in July and August (very hot) I gained about 23lbs to 168 in 10 weeks. Muscle is heavy. Constant marching (often 14 miles a day) with field packs, rifles etc. running, calisthenics (especially pushups, their favorite) and eating 3 large meals a day and not too much sleep. What was interesting was that we had guys who were like 110 lbs to 270lbs. At the end of training everyone was pretty much between 145-185. In order to complete the regimen you would have to burn off fat and pack on muscle or you would be recycled. My nephew is a s and c guy with a D1 school and he said the military, through trial and error had pretty much figured it out to get what they wanted in a soldier physically. The other thing that makes a difference is the level of testosterone an individual possesses (naturally) that can help increase
muscle mass. It can be boosted naturally so much. The rest is hereditary I guess. I would think that the metabolic rate of someone who is 21 or so is pretty high and I am told that strength peaks in the 27-30 range so it can be very hard to put on weight with a basketball regimen. It would be interesting to find out if the athletes at UConn are TRACKED as to their diet as well as their workout routines in the gym. Many D1 programs do this to be sure they are following the plan to get them to the desired weights goals. Don't want to sound like a politician but there is truth to both sides of this debate!

No, absolutely. I wasn't totally discounting what the others were saying. But I would point out again, that there were probably no 7 footers in your platoon(?). Your range of heights was definitely smaller than a basketball team's.

Also, you said, "we had guys who were like 110 lbs to 270lbs. At the end of training everyone was pretty much between 145-185. ". The drop for the heavier guys would be because of the conditioning. Basketball players get that conditioning, but are expected to keep that heavy weight (through muscle). It's a tough balance. Very difficult to do for those ectomorphs (for lack of a better term).

 

[JMick]

Metabolism is the key. People should look at the " weight" that Donyell Marshall gained in the pros. How did that turn out. Or, did Rip, Durant , iverson, etc. actually get that much bigger in the pro's or did their metabolism slow down. It varies from person to person . That
Rapid weight gain, weight lifting stuff leads to increased injuries for some people . Again, Facey and Brimah have gotten more muscular and fill out their jerseys better then when they got here. Jeremy even put on muscle and a little weight his second year but at their age if your recruited as a string bean , after 1-2 or 3 years , your just gonna be a more muscular string bean.

Metabolism is not the key, as it's been shown in scientific studies that "quicker" metabolisms burn only about 100 more calories per day then their "slower" metabolism counterparts. These are guys working out and running so often that they probably need 6000-8000 calories per day in order to put on mass. If they're not gaining weight while working out vigorously it's because they're not eating enough. Michael Phelps had to eat 10000 calories/day in order to gain weight. Genetics and testosterone levels will effect where mass is gained and how quickly it is gained, but we're talking about 3 years guys...

 

[dennismenace]

When athletes are trying to gain mass and weight don't they normally schedule this activity in the off season vs during regular in season training?
This then would also require the training and monitoring of the workouts and diet to reach the plan, correct? So for football this would be in the spring and
basketball in the summer I would guess?

 

[JMick]

When athletes are trying to gain mass and weight don't they normally schedule this activity in the off season vs during regular in season training?
This then would also require the training and monitoring of the workouts and diet to reach the plan, correct? So for football this would be in the spring and
basketball in the summer I would guess?

Most D1 athlete's are pretty much on campus all year round outside of the odd week or two.

 

[jibsey]

For anyone who thinks a summer of weight training with Brimah and Facey are going to produce the Rock I've got a nice little bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. The 3 summers before didn't produce it so why would it nagically happen this summer?

 

[JMick]

For anyone who thinks a summer of weight training with Brimah and Facey are going to produce the Rock I've got a nice little bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. The 3 summers before didn't produce it so why would it nagically happen this summer?

Nail meet hammer. Couldn't agree more. I am honestly shocked that the two of them have not gotten measurably bigger over three years, and I see no reason for them to get measurably bigger this season outside of working with Balis for the next 7 months. People can say all they want, but something is amiss in our weight training program or nutrition program. There is no reason Facey shouldn't be 235-240lbs right now. If you go by listed measurements, Facey has gained 27lbs in 3 years. That's absolutely terrible for a guy that came in at 6'8" 190.

 

[huskyharry]

So you are cherry picking a few people you knew, and one player, and saying that disproves the point? Young Reggie Miller or Tayshaun Prince are closer to our guys bulk than Barnes. Why didn't they fill out early too? Did they not put in the work? And how many of your marines were 7' tall? I'm willing to bet none. It's way, way, way harder to stack on weight and muscle in that type of frame. The amount of calories required alone is staggering, not even taking into account the ridiculous conditioning.

Barnes got older, his metabolism slowed, his body allowing him to pick up weight. And he's a professional who spends all of his time, when not beating up Derek Fisher, training. He's got access to the best nutrition and supplements (potentially drugs) on the planet. The best trainers, cooks, equipment, etc. It's a 24/7 job. It's not for these kids.

I'm not saying it's not possible, but certain guys have way more potential than others. Both Facey and Brimah have put on some weight since they got here; it's just they didn't start with much at all and therefore doesn't show. And unfortunately, running up and down the court 7 days a week for 6 months a year burns a lot off. Coupled with classes/studying instead of 24/7 training....a tall thin rail is at a real disadvantage.

I never said I was cherry picking a few people I knew.
I was the Senior Medical Officer for 2500 Marines and sailors and my observations are the observations of a physician, who also saw them in the gym daily. None were 6'9" to 6'11" but several were in the 6'3"-6'6". All were also required to do a lot of cardiovascular work in temperatures up to 120.
But since you are fart ing in my general direction, I must acknowledge you as the expert here ; )

I would also point at that the slug Marines who did as little as they could made no appreciable improvement.
Being an ectomorph body type is certainly a disadvantage, but effort is very important as well.

 

[mauconnfan]

Facey and Brimah are plenty "strong" to work the inside even at a weight disadvantage. If you watch closely they never hit first and are always late reacting to find their guy to box, as well as never holding a sturdy base with their legs. I realize a DeBerry is a load for these guys but he is for most, but if you are thinking the game and reacting timely you can still box out and beat people to the ball. While I would love to see more weight on them I would prefer some more numbers on their basketball IQ's.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Facey and Brimah are plenty "strong" to work the inside even at a weight disadvantage. If you watch closely they never hit first and are always late reacting to find their guy to box, as well as never holding a sturdy base with their legs. I realize a DeBerry is a load for these guys but he is for most, but if you are thinking the game and reacting timely you can still box out and beat people to the ball. While I would love to see more weight on them I would prefer some more numbers on their basketball IQ's.

I agree with this.

Weight and muscle obviously helps, but in the case of our bigs, improvement in awareness and fundamentals would show much greater dividends.

 

[jibsey]

No you are right it's a dual problem maybe even 3 pronged, weight and strength, basketball IQ, hands. Other than that all's well. My question, will Enoch and the new recruits be enough?

 

[Chief00]

I know this may surprise some coming from me - but Stewie is another example - she came in as a Freshwoman pretty skinny and weak and the last two years she has functional strength - her body definitely is noticeably bigger and stronger and you can also see it in contested rebounds and post plays - her strength now is an asset not a liability.

With the men since Travis came - I just don't see that progress. I really think they need to reexamine some of his stubborn academic theories about the field and how they apply to basketball. While conditioning and flexibility are important - pure explosive strength and size matters too. At this point I would prefer implementing some theories of the football strength guy.
After the KU game KO seemed for the first time to be publicly admitting it's an issue. Travis was a hire of his so he is very invested in him but that's what leadership is all about - establishing a vision and goals - and identifying and correcting problem that obstruct the path to success.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Yeah forget all that new-fangled training. Back to what works:

 

[Chief00]

Last year, I deployed to the Middle East with a Marine unit. We had several Marines who started the deployment with Facey-type physiques and had no illicit PEDs....only protein powder type stuff, but hit the weight room everyday. By the end of 7 months they looked more like Omar Calhoun-physiques.
Matt Barnes was a string bean in college and does not look like a body builder either but he gained the strength he needed and never gets pushed around the way our guys were this season.
I'm really pulling for our guys, but they need to put in the work to get the results!

Right on target! Thanks for doing what you do. We appreciate it in this troubled World.

 

[jibsey]

How would it be possible with our new multimillion dollar basketball center and top flight training facility, and each player having a personalized program maximized to focus on their weaknesses, to not be doing the weight training and supplements correctly? I can not imagine that these guys go in there and just lift like they are at LAFitness. Everything in our program is first class and our trainer is not?

 

[dennismenace]

How would it be possible with our new multimillion dollar basketball center and top flight training facility, and each player having a personalized program maximized to focus on their weaknesses, to not be doing the weight training and supplements correctly? I can not imagine that these guys go in there and just lift like they are at LAFitness. Everything in our program is first class and our trainer is not?

Who knows? I would think a lot has to do with the philosophy and methods of the S and C coach. I've noticed that our bigs are great at running the fast break (Brimah, Facey) but is that what you want in bigs? We can't know this because we don't have access to plans and adherence to it. To simply say more weight lifting leads to injuries is an oversimplification. Injuries come from improper weight training.
It is not unreasonable to set goals for nutrition (how many chicken breasts, eggs etc as well as prescribed exercises ) and monitor them on a daily basis (computer based).