Week of 1/1/24 Other Games

[nelsonmuntz]

Watch it again. It was pretty hard and the elbow connected. He flops, but that wasn’t one. Still very close to being a “basketball move”. Game was officiated very evenly, I watched the whole thing. TCU gets away with a lot of reach ins and wrist slaps, just like teams do against us.

My soundbar must have gone out for a moment. I didn't hear the bazooka shot that hit Dickinson.

 

[superjohn]

If Somebody elbowed Clingan in the face and you’d all scream bloody murder (me too). It was a close call. This has been a great game.

You can't be taken seriously if you think that was a good call.

He made the clean steal and the contact was obviously inadvertent. Stopping the play when TCU had #'s didn't seem right, calling a flagrant and giving Kansas the game is just gross.

Good Kansas fans call out the bull.

 

[navery12]

If Somebody elbowed Clingan in the face and you’d all scream bloody murder (me too). It was a close call. This has been a great game.

It was not close, it could not have been more obvious it was accidental and minimal contact

 

[gtcam]

69*-

If Somebody elbowed Clingan in the face and you’d all scream bloody murder (me too). It was a close call. This has been a great game.

If it was a real and intentional elbow I would agree with you but 5 of us sitting here have seen the replay at least a dozen times and it was a no call and play on. Not even a close play at all- the TCU player was naturally moving his arm in a motion to secure the ball and move forward. Dickenson is the softest big man in college basketball - he never mixes it up under the boards and plays LeBron centerfield defense. Adding insult to injury- the basket he scored to put them ahead - he shuffled his feet twice- he traveled.

 

[Jumpman62114]

Terrible call, refs pretty much decided the game. Refs need to grow a spine when calling games in Allen Fieldhouse.

 

[gtcam]

Watch it again. It was pretty hard and the elbow connected. He flops, but that wasn’t one. Still very close to being a “basketball move”. Game was officiated very evenly, I watched the whole thing. TCU gets away with a lot of reach ins and wrist slaps, just like teams do against us.

Sorry - you are way off on this one

 

[REB1094]

Flagrant aside, Dickinson pushed off (2 arms extended into the defender's back) and traveled (caught the ball, pivoted, hopped, then dribbled) on the last shot

I'm fine with the push off going uncalled because that seems like a weak call to end the game, but definitely shuffled his feet before the shot

 

[HuskyHawk]

You can't be taken seriously if you think that was a good call.

He made the clean steal and the contact was obviously inadvertent. Stopping the play when TCU had #'s didn't seem right, calling a flagrant and giving Kansas the game is just gross.

Good Kansas fans call out the bull.

It was not close, it could not have been more obvious it was accidental and minimal contact

Then the review would have gone the other way. I think it was a marginal call. Some angles looked worse than others. It was not minimal contact, but inadvertent, sure. The only reason I thought they might call it is that his right arm was moving away from the ball, not towards it.

TCU is good again this year, they don’t get talked about much but Dixon is doing a good job there.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Flagrant aside, Dickinson pushed off (2 arms extended into the defender's back) and traveled (caught the ball, pivoted, hopped, then dribbled) on the last shot

I'm fine with the push off going uncalled because that seems like a weak call to end the game, but definitely shuffled his feet before the shot

And the TCU guy pushed off on Jackson on his shot to put them up 2 before the flagrant. Thats just how the game was called.

 

[Hunt for 7]

This is the reason Kansas looses so many times early in the tourney. Unless they are playing 8 on 5 they can’t win. That call was a disgrace to the game of basketball. We all know Dickinson is a major flop per. The reason he probably chose Kansas is other than Duke, it is the only school where his flopping is not called. Not saying he flopped on this one but it was still a terrible call. Makes me feel like I was watching an NFL game. I cant believe Dixon did not lose it he does not have the same fire anymore. When he coached Pitt he was much more animated.

 

[HitDog]

Samuel knows Hunter’s game.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

As ridiculous as that call was, it helps UConn. Kansas stays a Top 10 opponent and boosts our power ratings. Kansas is not a great team this year, and is going to lose some games where the Big 12 refs will not be able to rescue them. I will take this one.

Somehow, the Big East is only .02 behind the SEC in KenPom from being the #2 conference. As the preseason factors lose their weighting in KenPom, the Big East gets better.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Watch it again. It was pretty hard and the elbow connected. He flops, but that wasn’t one. Still very close to being a “basketball move”. Game was officiated very evenly, I watched the whole thing. TCU gets away with a lot of reach ins and wrist slaps, just like teams do against us.

Way off on this one.

 

[Hunt for 7]

And the TCU guy pushed off on Jackson on his shot to put them up 2 before the flagrant. Thats just how the game was called.

Dickson pushed off on the last entry pass so we can go on and on, but what can’t be argued is that when you play in that building it is 8 on 5. Always has been always will be.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Way off on this one.

It looks like Dickinson got hit with a sledgehammer.

 

[Leebo]

I agree that it shouldn't have been a flagrant.
I was also not surprised that it was called a flagrant.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

It looks like Dickinson got hit with a sledgehammer.

Truly have no idea what you’re looking at.

 

[REB1094]

I agree that it shouldn't have been a flagrant.
I was also not surprised that it was called a flagrant.

Classic example of it being the right call according to the rules, which means the rules should be looked at

TCU guy clearly swings his arm out and hits Hunter's face. Doesn't matter at that point if it's a forearm or an elbow, an arm was swung and made contact with the face. That is almost always called a flagrant

Maybe the rule needs to be reviewed to include intention. Because it's obvious there was no intention to hit the guy in the face. Also maybe if the victim flopped or not should be taken into consideration..

 

[Conquistador]

That was probably the worst call of the entire basketball season. What made it worse was they REVIEWED it and came up with that. It was literally a 6 point swing with 50 seconds left. Took away a TCU steal where they had a wide open dunk then gave Kansas 2 FT’s and the ball. Absolutely brutal to watch.

One of the worst I’ve seen! That was worthy of a Bobby Knight chair throwing! Man, I don’t understand how the TCU coach didn’t go nuts!!

 

[Fan1978]

Terrible call, refs pretty much decided the game. Refs need to grow a spine when calling games in Allen Fieldhouse.

Worst call ever, totally incidental contact. Dickenson was not hurt. Action should have not been stopped and no tech. Totally decided the game. The commentators agreed on both counts. Dickenson amazingly looked fine on free throws and following plays. These are the flops discussed prior to UConn game.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Classic example of it being the right call according to the rules, which means the rules should be looked at

TCU guy clearly swings his arm out and hits Hunter's face. Doesn't matter at that point if it's a forearm or an elbow, an arm was swung and made contact with the face. That is almost always called a flagrant

Maybe the rule needs to be reviewed to include intention. Because it's obvious there was no intention to hit the guy in the face. Also maybe if the victim flopped or not should be taken into consideration..

Exactly. It’s like we all forget, but I remember there was a game last year where Sanogo or Clingan was called for a very similar foul, possibly even less contact than this one.

A flagrant 1 foul (men's) or unsportsmanlike foul (women's) involves excessive or severe contact during a live ball, including especially when a player "swings an elbow and makes illegal, non-excessive contact with an opponent above the shoulders".

 

[Tenspro2002]

That was probably the worst call of the entire basketball season. What made it worse was they REVIEWED it and came up with that. It was literally a 6 point swing with 50 seconds left. Took away a TCU steal where they had a wide open dunk then gave Kansas 2 FT’s and the ball. Absolutely brutal to watch.

They literally gifted Kansas about 40% win probability, from down 2 without the ball to tied with the ball.

 

[superjohn]

I agree that it shouldn't have been a flagrant.
I was also not surprised that it was called a flagrant.

The announcers sounded shocked and the official they talked to said it obviously was a play on/inadvertent contact but everyone who follows college basketball knew there was a decent chance they would call it because it was Kansas in that building.

 

[Tenspro2002]

I agree that it shouldn't have been a flagrant.
I was also not surprised that it was called a flagrant.

Only because of who was playing and where.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Flagrant aside, Dickinson pushed off (2 arms extended into the defender's back) and traveled (caught the ball, pivoted, hopped, then dribbled) on the last shot

I'm fine with the push off going uncalled because that seems like a weak call to end the game, but definitely shuffled his feet before the shot

Absolutely.

Classic example of it being the right call according to the rules, which means the rules should be looked at

TCU guy clearly swings his arm out and hits Hunter's face. Doesn't matter at that point if it's a forearm or an elbow, an arm was swung and made contact with the face. That is almost always called a flagrant

Maybe the rule needs to be reviewed to include intention. Because it's obvious there was no intention to hit the guy in the face. Also maybe if the victim flopped or not should be taken into consideration..

I came here with this question, which has been unmentioned until the above.

I honestly do not know if the rule has been adjusted in the past 2-3 years, but I thought that it had then been at the standard that any direct contact above the shoulder was required to be called a flagrant, irrespective of whether it was malicious, intentional, etc.

Some further disclosure:
The elbow was visually flat, and it did strike Dickinson.
It looked like an unnecessary if not uncommon, volitional 'extra' by Udeh, though my understanding is that such determination is outside of the equation. I bring this up because some might consider it an unfortunate unforced error by Udeh.
I don't like particularly Dickinson, so I can relate to the enmity here.
I don't like that Kansas regularly enjoys what looks like friendly AFH reffing.
I do think that the KU win is helpful to UConn.

Is anyone here able and willing to weigh in as to whether there has been any recent evolution with how the rule is currently written?

 

[REB1094]

Absolutely.

I came here with this question, which has been unmentioned until the above.

I honestly do not know if the rule has been adjusted in the past 2-3 years, but I thought that it had then been at the standard that any direct contact above the shoulder was required to be called a flagrant, irrespective of whether it was malicious, intentional, etc.

Some further disclosure:
The elbow was visually flat, and it did strike Dickinson.
It looked like an unnecessary if not uncommon, volitional 'extra' by Udeh, though my understanding is that such determination is outside of the equation. I bring this up because some might consider it an unfortunate unforced error by Udeh.
I don't like particularly Dickinson, so I can relate to the enmity here.
I don't like that Kansas regularly enjoys what looks like friendly AFH reffing.
I do think that the KU win is helpful to UConn.

Is anyone here able and willing to weigh in as to whether there has been any recent evolution with how the rule is currently written?

Because I'm a nerd, from the NCAA rulebook for this year -

Flagrant 1 personal foul. A flagrant 1 personal foul is a personal foul that is deemed excessive in nature (unwarranted or too much) and/or unnecessary (avoidable, uncalled for or not required by the circumstances of the play), but is not based solely on the severity of the act. Examples include, but are not limited to:
a) Causing excessive or unnecessary contact with an opponent;
b) Contact with an opponent that is not a legitimate attempt to play the ball or player;
c) Pushing or holding a player from behind to prevent a score. Depending on the severity of the contact and the potential for injury, this type of foul could rise to the level of a flagrant 2 foul;
d) Fouling a player clearly away from the ball who is not directly involved with the play, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting;
e) Contact with a player making a throw-in;
f) Illegal contact caused by swinging of an elbow that is deemed excessive or unnecessary but does not rise to the level of a flagrant 2 personal foul (See Rule 4-18.7);
g) Illegal contact caused by a player hooking an opponent over or under the arm and which may lead the official to believe the contact was caused by the opponent. Depending on the nature of the contact, or the result of the contact, this foul could be considered a flagrant 2
foul; and
h) Contact with an opponent that is not the result of a normal basketball play. “Normal basketball play” is defined as any activity by a player, including incidental contact, which is generally accepted as that which occurs in a basketball game when the player is attempting
to make a legal offensive or defensive play.

 

[HooperScooper]

Don’t know what you said but I think he’s overrated. Whole team is.

I just said he's a chucker and a ball stopper. He just doesn't seem very efficient. Click on the link I provided where some posters provided some analytics that seem to suggest he's good.

 

[his dudeness]

Less contact than Elmarko Jackson's game-saving "steal" where he hacked Diarra literally above the elbow. Refs should be replaced by AI drones and converted into biofuel.

 

[Travelman6]

Less contact than Elmarko Jackson's game-saving "steal" where he hacked Diarra literally above the elbow. Refs should be replaced by AI drones and converted into biofuel.

Somehow missed that, that's abysmal, what a disgrace.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Somehow missed that, that's abysmal, what a disgrace.

Horrible call.