Week 7 - Dec 16 to 22

[nwhoopfan]

That's more like it. Washington with a big first quarter lead against Furman, this time they continued to build on it throughout the game. Plenty of minutes for the bench players, most production they've gotten from non starters in quite a while. 71-43 final. 28 bench points, including what I'm assuming is a career high 15 from Fr. Devin Coppinger.

 

[nwhoopfan]

8-2 Stephen F. Austin vs. 10-1 San Diego St. might be a barn burner. SFA up 41-38 at the half.

 

[newfrontier]

While true, which program has had more success over the last 5-10 years? Michigan State hasn't won a Big10 title in over 10 years themselves. The program hasn't gotten past the first round in the tournament for a while. Michigan during this same timeframe made it to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8.

And regarding whether their recruiting class is over rated, time will tell however they seem to be holding up just fine. The program has exceeded expectations so far this season. Whether it continues during conference play, who knows? But they aren't wilting against tougher competition just yet.

I am making an unbiased comparison of Michigan State versus Michigan WBB by looking at the entire big picture history of the 2 schools in the Big10 WBB conference. You on the other hand, are biased by intentionally cherry picking a very narrow time frame where you can twist the argument into something more favorable to Michigan. I understand, I really do. You don't like my irrefutable conclusion, so you want to re-direct and argue something different. Nice Try.
Heck, MSU was dominant over Michigan last season. I like this time frame better than your last 5-10 year time frame because it is even more recent and more narrowly focused on last season alone. Based on your implication that more recent means more relevant, I guess I am right again. MSU WBB program is better than Michigan's.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Arky loses again, this time to Troy who was 5-6 coming into the game. Hogs are not only losing, they are getting tagged w/ some bad losses. Now 6-8.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Dayton put a scare into Vandy in the 3rd quarter, but the Dores pulled away in Q4.

 

[nwhoopfan]

8-2 Stephen F. Austin vs. 10-1 San Diego St. might be a barn burner. SFA up 41-38 at the half.

Man, it's a bummer this isn't being broadcast. ESPN+ has so many games, but not this one. Now going to 2OT.

 

[nwhoopfan]

LSU is flirting so hard with losing. Stretched the lead a little bit at halftime, but letting UIC hang around...who is 2-5 with only 1 win against a D1 team.

 

[Stagnant]

LSU is going to lose at least 6 games in their conference.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Stephen F. Austin blew it wide open in the 2nd OT, 89-80 final.

 

[cancontent]

I am making an unbiased comparison of Michigan State versus Michigan WBB by looking at the entire big picture history of the 2 schools in the Big10 WBB conference. You on the other hand, are biased by intentionally cherry picking a very narrow time frame where you can twist the argument into something more favorable to Michigan. I understand, I really do. You don't like my irrefutable conclusion, so you want to re-direct and argue something different. Nice Try.
Heck, MSU was dominant over Michigan last season. I like this time frame better than your last 5-10 year time frame because it is even more recent and more narrowly focused on last season alone. Based on your implication that more recent means more relevant, I guess I am right again. MSU WBB program is better than Michigan's.

Unbiased or triggered? The tone of your post came across like one who has a chip on their shoulder because someone noted a different perspective.

My point was far from biased. It pointed out facts including current history especially with the NCAA being a league where recent results matter. Sure Michigan State won the series last season. Who won the previous one? Michigan. The previous two seasons they split. So what?

As others said, no one disagrees with the historical fact that Michigan State has had more success overall. However, you're omitting the fact that it's been well over a decade since Merchant got the program close to a conference title. Sure Michigan hasn't either, but they've been more successful recently.

 

[newfrontier]

Unbiased or triggered? The tone of your post came across like one who has a chip on their shoulder because someone noted a different perspective.

My point was far from biased. It pointed out facts including current history especially with the NCAA being a league where recent results matter. Sure Michigan State won the series last season. Who won the previous one? Michigan. The previous two seasons they split. So what?

As others said, no one disagrees with the historical fact that Michigan State has had more success overall. However, you're omitting the fact that it's been well over a decade since Merchant got the program close to a conference title. Sure Michigan hasn't either, but they've been more successful recently.

Well, I was simply pointing out the obvious big, whole story (which includes down periods for MSU) picture that MSU is still the historically better program. The 2 last wins in a row of MSU over Michigan may not suggest a new trend to you that MSU is back, but 2 more wins by MSU over Michigan this season will solidify it for me. As far as Merchant retiring or resigning, I only read it was her decision based on serious health issues. The WBB program was definitely down in her later years and her health may have had a direct cause and effect and not just a correlation to the team's decline.

 

[azfan]

Tough loss in Fresno for the Jacks as the Dogs bite hard and often. NAU so tough when they hit their threes and not so tough when they don't. NAU held to 55 points. Fresno State pulls away after NAU closed to within 5 midway through the 3rd. 66-55 as NAU falls to 9-3.

Looking ahead to Dec. 29, Jacks will have their hands full in Phoenix against Grand Canyon.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I gotta stop paying attention to W-L records. Oregon St. whupped 8-1 Western Kentucky, but WKU hadn't really played anybody.

 

[Stagnant]

Arkansas is another one like Arizona state. Need to make a coaching change. Sticking with it would be proof that the athletic director doesn’t care about women’s basketball.

 

[cancontent]

Well, I was simply pointing out the obvious big, whole story (which includes down periods for MSU) picture that MSU is still the historically better program. The 2 last wins in a row of MSU over Michigan may not suggest a new trend to you that MSU is back, but 2 more wins by MSU over Michigan this season will solidify it for me. As far as Merchant retiring or resigning, I only read it was her decision based on serious health issues. The WBB program was definitely down in her later years and her health may have had a direct cause and effect and not just a correlation to the team's decline.

That wasn't pointing out, it was shouting. And yes Michigan State looks to be back which is great for the BIG10 and the in state rivalry.

With respect to trends, my point was to illustrate the recent history of the series has been a mixed bag. It's been a coin toss really except the past two seasons. This season's series should be interesting either way, regardless who wins or if the teams split the series. The rivalry continues to be an entertaining one when these teams meet.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

Anyone else have Creighton taking out UCLA with a barrage of 3s?

 

[Stagnant]

Anyone else have Creighton taking out UCLA with a barrage of 3s?

No. I watched the Kansas state/Creighton game. I expect this one to be similar. I am curious to know if Betts is playing tonight or not though.

 

[cancontent]

Anyone else have Creighton taking out UCLA with a barrage of 3s?

Better question is, if it were to happen, how many of us will be awake to see it live?

 

[TheFarmFan]

Anyone else have Creighton taking out UCLA with a barrage of 3s?

Better question is, if it were to happen, how many of us will be awake to see it live?

I will be there in person, so hopefully I'll manage to stay awake.

 

[Stagnant]

Based on this picture. I would tend to speculate that Betts is out again

 

[azfan]

Arkansas is another one like Arizona state. Need to make a coaching change. Sticking with it would be proof that the athletic director doesn’t care about women’s basketball.

Not so much.

Arkansas represents the type of expectation and support that elite programs share. While there is clearly a decline in Fayetteville there has been success during Neighbors time there.

In Tempe during the Adair disaster there's been nothing but unrelenting, soul crushing failure

As an ASU fan I take Neighbors every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I would happily pay 10 times whatever buyout he has at Arkansas pay 10 times the cost to have Coach Adair go back to Delaware and personally cut Mike Neighbor's yard during the summer.

Similarities

1. Hiring schools were consistently successful with 20 win seasons and participation at the NCAA prior to the arrival of Adair/Neighbors.

2. Decline is with current coach

3. Similar age and experience in coaching.

Differences

1. Made sense at the time.

Coaching experience and expectations. The Neighbors hire made sense with a coach with experience at P4 level returning home. The Adair higher made no sense. A coach with no P4 experience deeply rooted in the Mid-Atlantic region with no connection to the Pac-12 or the West Coast and no experience recruiting athletes required in a P4 conference nor a demonstrated ability to manage a big time program.

2. Magnitude of the decline

There's just no similarity here as I indicate below. No argument that Neighbors has been a disappointment and the performance of the team reflects that. There is a however a difference between a decline and a precipitous, consistent, unrelenting level of horribleness. Neighbors could very well have another job at the P4 level. Adair will never ever ever coach again at the elite level and women's college basketball.

Adair tenure
Year Overall. Conference
2022 8-20. 1-17
2023 11-20. 3-15
2024. 5-6



Adair has not taken the Sun Devils to post-season action and never ever will even if the AD and real estate developer decide to leave her in this job the next 20 years she will never go to postseason with a P4 School.


Neighbors at Arkansas
Year Overall Conference
2017 18-13. 3-13
2018. 22-15. 6-10
2019 24-8. 10-6
2020 19-9. 9-6
2021. 18-13 7-9
2023 24 -13. 7-9
2023 18-15. 6-10
2024 6-8



Two appearances NCAA, two appearances WNIT, 1 appearance WBIT

3.Timing of firing.

I wasn't sure whether to put this as a similarity or not as I would be surprised if Neighbors is still coaching at Arkansas in 3 years. I'm not sure how long ihs contract is. While Arizona State has demonstrated a malignant neglect of the women's basketball program I don't think even that incompetence would tolerate Adair continuing another 20 loss year. So fingers crossed that she's gone from Tempe by the end of March 2025. I'm suspecting Neighbors may well still be employed as of that day at Arkansas.

 

[Plebe]

Arkansas represents the type of expectation and support that elite programs share. ...

1. Hiring schools were consistently successful with 20 win seasons and participation at the NCAA prior to the arrival of Adair/Neighbors.

Most of your analysis is spot on, but the Arkansas program cannot be described as having been "consistently successful with 20 win seasons" prior to Neighbors.

The Jimmy Dykes hire in 2014 made even less sense than hiring Adair. He did get them (barely) into the NCAA tournament in his first year, but in none of his 3 seasons did they reach 20 wins.

Before that, Tim Collen had only modest success, getting to 2 NCAA tournaments in a 7-year tenure. The Susie Gardner tenure before that was just bad. Arkansas did have some decent teams under Gary Blair in the late 90s (including a flukish run to the Final Four in 1998), but that's a pretty distant memory.

Neighbors seemed to have Arkansas turned around, but the success went away as quickly as it arrived. Their best team was in 2021, when they were an NCAA #4 seed, but lost in the first round to Wright State. They were only a 10 seed in 2022 and went to the WNIT in 2023. Arkansas under Neighbors has hit 20 wins only 3 teams in Neighbor's tenure.

 

[stwainfan]

I guess the Tennessee press was better than the Texas press against Richmond.

 

[nwhoopfan]

North Carolina Central actually won a game! And not against someone like Chicago St. either. 76-71 victory over Winthrop, who was 6-5 entering the game. Oof that is a terrible loss for the Eagles.

 

[TheFarmFan]

Based on this picture. I would tend to speculate that Betts is out again

Maybe she has an aversion to stepping foot on the same court as her prior team - she also mysteriously was out the week of the UCLA game @Stanford last season, and she didn't even travel with the team.