Week 12 - Jan 22 to 28

[nwhoopfan]

@jdote33 according to the commentators it sounds like Coach Roberts is REALLY not a fan of mid range shots. She wants her players taking 3s or something close to the bucket, nothing else. I know I've seen Pili hit 10-15 foot jump shots, but apparently her coach discourages that.

Pili got off to a slow start. I thought she was pushing too hard to try to make an impact, some of her shots were very forced, had zero chance of going in. She's usually so efficient, it was very strange seeing her have a game like that.

I hear you about length bothering her, but she had a monster game against South Carolina, and they have about as much length as anybody.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Thursday is my birthday, and I am contemplating attending the NC State/Clemson game that evening; it's about an hour drive for me to Littlejohn. Weather forecast is for showers and thunderstorms...and I'm at an age now I don't feel 100% comfortable driving on wet roads, especially the poorly-maintained and poorly-lighted rural roads. Will be monitoring and will make a decision Thursday afternoon... but this is the closest I'll get to actually seeing NC State play live this season. I've attended the last two games when NC State traveled down here. I couldn't think of a better birthday present than having NC State play at a high level while I'm in attendance, and getting a road W.

The downside is...if I go, then I'll miss all of the hoopla (pardon the pun) about South Carolina's much-anticipated visit to Baton Rouge...and even if I record the game, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to go the whole evening without score updates being announced in Littlejohn.

Littlejohn is your best chance of avoiding the score if it's going well for the Gamecocks.

 

[TheFarmFan]

I had some questions about Betts during the Ohio St. game, and I have even more now. I'm not sure that there's much more to her than just being tall. She's putting up good numbers and she's efficient, but I'm not sure about her pro prospects down the road. I think she needs to add a lot to her game.

I mean look, I realize I risk a serious accusation of sour grapes here, but there’s a reason I just wasn’t that devastated that she transferred. If anyone wants to make the case for why she should have started over Brink or Iriafen on our squad, I’m waiting… and from her mother’s embarrassingly half-anonymous posts on our fan board made clear, her transfer was predicated on expecting to start this season and leaving when she wouldn’t be given that guarantee.

 

[Bone Dog]

I had some questions about Betts during the Ohio St. game, and I have even more now. I'm not sure that there's much more to her than just being tall. She's putting up good numbers and she's efficient, but I'm not sure about her pro prospects down the road. I think she needs to add a lot to her game.

I've had the same thoughts about Betts for a while now -- as far back as her last appearance in the FIBA games. She has a good shooting touch around the rim and seems to have good hands. She is also painfully slow, lumbering even. Kamila is much quicker running the floor and moving her feet in the paint. And in tonight's game she looked somehow even slower, so much so that Close took her out in the final minutes and in OT. Clearly the coach sees her as a liability in clutch situations. I wonder if this decline is indicative of an undisclosed injury. If so, she might recover later this season and become again the pivotal player UCLA needs. But as she is now, I'm not sure they can beat Stanford, much less be competitive against SC.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

I've had the same thoughts about Betts for a while now -- as far back as her last appearance in the FIBA games. She has a good shooting touch around the rim and seems to have good hands. She is also painfully slow, lumbering even. Kamila is much quicker running the floor and moving her feet in the paint. And in tonight's game she looked somehow even slower, so much so that Close took her out in the final minutes and in OT. Clearly the coach sees her as a liability in clutch situations. I wonder if this decline is indicative of an undisclosed injury. If so, she might recover later this season and become again the pivotal player UCLA needs. But as she is now, I'm not sure they can beat Stanford, much less be competitive against SC.

Betts has always looked like that which is why I’ve always been flummoxed by how unhappy she seemed to be with her minutes at Stanford. No way should she starting over Brink and Kiki has made it obvious why she wasn’t starting over her as well. I’m skeptical of Close’s player development so I feel she would have been much better off at Stanford than potentially staying the same at UCLA but with more minutes.

 

[bbsamjj]

I've never been exactly wowed by Betts either but let's have some perspective:

She just had a 20pt, 13 rebound game at Colorado.
She had 17pts and 11 rebounds at Ohio St.
She had 22 pts and 18 rebounds at Fl St.
She had 13pts and 7 rebounds vs UConn.
In two games against USC she's gone for 10pts and 3 rebounds (L) and 15pts and 8 rebounds (W).

I don't know if it was the altitude, the way Utah was guarding her, or she just had a bad game, but she's been a fairly reliable weapon for UCLA in its biggest games.

 

[Bone Dog]

I've never been exactly wowed by Betts either but let's have some perspective:

She just had a 20pt, 13 rebound game at Colorado.
She had 17pts and 11 rebounds at Ohio St.
She had 22 pts and 18 rebounds at Fl St.
She had 13pts and 7 rebounds vs UConn.
In two games against USC she's gone for 10pts and 3 rebounds (L) and 15pts and 8 rebounds (W).

I don't know if it was the altitude, the way Utah was guarding her, or she just had a bad game, but she's been a fairly reliable weapon for UCLA in its biggest games.

I don’t read those numbers the same way I guess. 13/7 against UConn looks like a red flag to me. What sort of resistance could Edwards and Brady have posed to an effective big flanked by two other quality bigs? The real question mark is defense. She’s a good rim protector but too slow to guard much more than a few feet from the rim. That was clear last night. I think this was why Close took her out for much of the 4th and the OT.

The other numbers are respectable but don’t leap off the page for me, especially having watched a few Colorado games. Miller and Vonleh don’t look like they can pose much of a challenge to Betts. They’re smaller and no quicker. Same for Fl St. The tOSU game may have been her best performance. I expect she’ll put up good numbers against that sort of opposition, but not against the top teams, certainly not against SC and maybe not even against Stanford if Brink is healthy.

 

[cancontent]

I mean look, I realize I risk a serious accusation of sour grapes here, but there’s a reason I just wasn’t that devastated that she transferred. If anyone wants to make the case for why she should have started over Brink or Iriafen on our squad, I’m waiting… and from her mother’s embarrassingly half-anonymous posts on our fan board made clear, her transfer was predicated on expecting to start this season and leaving when she wouldn’t be given that guarantee.

Doesn't come across as sour grapes to me. Unfortunately, we're in a generation where this attitude exists among a lot of players, regardless of their ranking. In the end, it was best that she move on to where she feels appreciated. Better for the morale of Stanford in my opinion.

 

[cancontent]

Now I haven't seen the game, but KSU beating Baylor without Lee doesn't surprise me for some reason. If there was skepticism about the team being able to compete without Lee, I believe this game is an indication that they have some grit.

 

[bbsamjj]

I don’t read those numbers the same way I guess. 13/7 against UConn looks like a red flag to me. What sort of resistance could Edwards and Brady have posed to an effective big flanked by two other quality bigs? The real question mark is defense. She’s a good rim protector but too slow to guard much more than a few feet from the rim. That was clear last night. I think this was why Close took her out for much of the 4th and the OT.

The other numbers are respectable but don’t leap off the page for me, especially having watched a few Colorado games. Miller and Vonleh don’t look like they can pose much of a challenge to Betts. They’re smaller and no quicker. Same for Fl St. The tOSU game may have been her best performance. I expect she’ll put up good numbers against that sort of opposition, but not against the top teams, certainly not against SC and maybe not even against Stanford if Brink is healthy.

Who are the other two quality bigs on UCLA flanking Betts? Dugalic is a very solid player but not exactly a world beater (and she was 1-7 against UConn).

I didn't watch the UCLA vs UConn matchup like many here; but Betts only took 7 shots (5-7). Meanwhile, Edwards and Brady went a combined 2-17 from the field and had a combined 5pts and 9 rebounds. Was that because of Betts or they just had terrible games? Probably a combo of both.

We will see how she fares against Stanford, and UCLA gets home games against both CO and Utah coming up. But not exactly sure how many other top teams she needs to play against to prove her worth. If the bar is "She's not as good as Cardoso or Brink"--don't think anyone is really arguing that.

 

[TheFarmFan]

Who are the other two quality bigs on UCLA flanking Betts? Dugalic is a very solid player but not exactly a world beater (and she was 1-7 against UConn).

I didn't watch the UCLA vs UConn matchup like many here; but Betts only took 7 shots (5-7). Meanwhile, Edwards and Brady went a combined 2-17 from the field and had a combined 5pts and 9 rebounds. Was that because of Betts or they just had terrible games? Probably a combo of both.

We will see how she fares against Stanford, and UCLA gets home games against both CO and Utah coming up. But not exactly sure how many other top teams she needs to play against to prove her worth. If the bar is "She's not as good as Cardoso or Brink"--don't think anyone is really arguing that.

+1. Yes, wholly agree she's a great post and deserves to start at nearly any D1 program. She's got a feathery touch for a 6'7" post and manages to avoid the problem ONO long suffered from of containing her extraordinarily long arms to avoid foul calls while going for rebounds. But at least last season, she'd get stripped of the ball with shocking frequency after initially getting the rebound, and her full court movement was really lacking. Calling her a step slow was generous. And whereas Brink and Iriafen are often leading the fast break (literally, it's often Brink bringing the ball up to do it!), having Betts means you're entirely dependent on your guards to execute a quick turnaround play.

Again, she's a great player and as they say, "you can't teach height." But I just didn't see the argument for why it was so ludicrous she might be third in our bigs rotation behind Brink and Kiki.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

I mean look, I realize I risk a serious accusation of sour grapes here, but there’s a reason I just wasn’t that devastated that she transferred. If anyone wants to make the case for why she should have started over Brink or Iriafen on our squad, I’m waiting… and from her mother’s embarrassingly half-anonymous posts on our fan board made clear, her transfer was predicated on expecting to start this season and leaving when she wouldn’t be given that guarantee.

It's not sour grapes to me at all. Last year I think Betts was buried behind two very capable post players and two substitute post players who were seniors. The fact two of those were gone and she left anyway struck me as she was unhappy with something in addition to PT. It seemed to me something was going on with the team last year that possibly contributed to their earlier than expected exit but just my own thoughts.

In my limited viewings of her she is talented but still raw. She doesn't come off as actually slow but her footwork and positioning could be better. She's strong with a nice touch though and sure enough you can't teach her size.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

Who are the other two quality bigs on UCLA flanking Betts? Dugalic is a very solid player but not exactly a world beater (and she was 1-7 against UConn).

I didn't watch the UCLA vs UConn matchup like many here; but Betts only took 7 shots (5-7). Meanwhile, Edwards and Brady went a combined 2-17 from the field and had a combined 5pts and 9 rebounds. Was that because of Betts or they just had terrible games? Probably a combo of both.

We will see how she fares against Stanford, and UCLA gets home games against both CO and Utah coming up. But not exactly sure how many other top teams she needs to play against to prove her worth. If the bar is "She's not as good as Cardoso or Brink"--don't think anyone is really arguing that.

When you are the number 1 ranked recruit in high school, I think the bar is Cardoso and Brink. Not saying shes not good compared to the rest of D1 players but I don't think she's as good as billed coming out of high school and as good as some of her family's social media comments in the offseason would have you believe.

 

[visitingcock]

When you are the number 1 ranked recruit in high school, I think the bar is Cardoso and Brink. Not saying shes not good compared to the rest of D1 players but I don't think she's as good as billed coming out of high school and as good as some of her family's social media comments in the offseason would have you believe.

And Lee? And Kitley? Angel Reese?

After a year and a half experience, she is 29th in blocked shots and 73rd in rebounds. Scoring at 15.4 per game is pretty good.

There was no way she was gonna be close to Brink in her freshman year, like her family apparently believed,

 

[hoopsnloops32]

And Lee? And Kitley? Angel Reese?

After a year and a half experience, she is 29th in blocked shots and 73rd in rebounds. Scoring at 15.4 per game is pretty good.

There was no way she was gonna be close to Brink in her freshman year, like her family apparently believed,

I'm not saying those aren't good numbers, certainly as a UConn fan I would LOVE to have Betts or a player with those number. I am just saying there is the reality of the player she is and the social media hype that was fanned by her family over the summer really negatively against Tara and Stanford when its always been obvious to me she isn't on Brink or Kiki's level. She's a good but not generational center who is a key role player right now but not a star on the level of the bigs mentioned above. Maybe as a junior or a senior she will get there but its not where she is now.

 

[LETTERL]

Now I haven't seen the game, but KSU beating Baylor without Lee doesn't surprise me for some reason. If there was skepticism about the team being able to compete without Lee, I believe this game is an indication that they have some grit.

I went to bed last night, and Baylor appeared on its way to a win.

That is a major win for Kansas State, especially without Ayoka Lee.

 

[bbsamjj]

And Lee? And Kitley? Angel Reese?

After a year and a half experience, she is 29th in blocked shots and 73rd in rebounds. Scoring at 15.4 per game is pretty good.

There was no way she was gonna be close to Brink in her freshman year, like her family apparently believed,

The thing is...Lee, Kitley, Reese, Brink, Cardoso are all seniors. Betts is still just a sophomore.

I can't speak to how good all of the above were as sophomores, but she still has plenty of time to develop into a force.

 

[visitingcock]

The thing is...Lee, Kitley, Reese, Brink, Cardoso are all seniors. Betts is still just a sophomore.

I can't speak to how good all of the above were as sophomores, but she still has plenty of time to develop into a force.

Agreed I picked them on purpose. And there is no way she is better - at this time - and NO WAY she was close to BRINK last year. When she is a senior? We'll see. Maybe then, but not now.

 

[bbsamjj]

Also, yes, Betts was the #1 player in her class, but thus far that class is looking just...fine: 2022 HoopGurlz Recruiting Rankings - espnW 100 - ESPN

Some very good talent, but no one who is playing like an All American yet.

For comparison, you have...this year's freshmen class.

And then there was 2020:

1. Paige
2. Angel
3. Cameron
4. Caitlin
5. Kamila

 

[cancontent]

Also, yes, Betts was the #1 player in her class, but thus far that class is looking just...fine: 2022 HoopGurlz Recruiting Rankings - espnW 100 - ESPN

Some very good talent, but no one who is playing like an All American yet.

For comparison, you have...this year's freshmen class.

And then there was 2020:

1. Paige
2. Angel
3. Cameron
4. Caitlin
5. Kamila

Great point. One thing I also wonder is whether Cardoso would be where she is now had Syracuse not have imploded.

Similar to what's being said about Betts, Cardoso was very raw as a freshman. Her development has grown dramatically under Coach Staley. Don't know if that would have been the case with Hillsman. Gut feeling is no.

 

[GamecockFam]

Also, yes, Betts was the #1 player in her class, but thus far that class is looking just...fine: 2022 HoopGurlz Recruiting Rankings - espnW 100 - ESPN

Some very good talent, but no one who is playing like an All American yet.

For comparison, you have...this year's freshmen class.

And then there was 2020:

1. Paige
2. Angel
3. Cameron
4. Caitlin
5. Kamila

Yeah that 2022 class is looking very mid tier as of this point in their careers. Watkins, Latson, and Flau'jae Johnson are the names that stick out to me. But, it's still early and things can change in a heartbeat

 

[maple]

Great point. One thing I also wonder is whether Cardoso would be where she is now had Syracuse not have imploded.

Similar to what's being said about Betts, Cardoso was very raw as a freshman. Her development has grown dramatically under Coach Staley. Don't know if that would have been the case with Hillsman. Gut feeling is no.

Hillsman would have done nothing. That program was trending downwards since 2016 and the culture was awful.

Coach FLJ probably could have developed her well, but IMO not as well as Staley.

 

[CompSci87]

When you are the number 1 ranked recruit in high school, I think the bar is Cardoso and Brink. Not saying shes not good compared to the rest of D1 players but I don't think she's as good as billed coming out of high school and as good as some of her family's social media comments in the offseason would have you believe.

When a recruit ranked #1 doesn't seem to be quite that good, but still is very good, I like to say "it's not their fault they're ranked #1" -- meaning, don't judge them too harshly just because someone else's opinion set your expectations very high.

However, by the same token, the family of a #1 player (and the player herself) needs to realize that rankings are just someone's opinion and are based partly on potential future development. They don't mean the player has already made it. One phrase for this mistake is "believing your own press clippings."

 

[bbsamjj]

Yeah that 2022 class is looking very mid tier as of this point in their careers. Watkins, Latson, and Flau'jae Johnson are the names that stick out to me. But, it's still early and things can change in a heartbeat

This class thus far is giving potential "All Conference First Team" but not "First Team All American."

 

[BRS24]

When a recruit ranked #1 doesn't seem to be quite that good, but still is very good, I like to say "it's not their fault they're ranked #1" -- meaning, don't judge them too harshly just because someone else's opinion set your expectations very high.

However, by the same token, the family of a #1 player (and the player herself) needs to realize that rankings are just someone's opinion and are based partly on potential future development. They don't mean the player has already made it. One phrase for this mistake is "believing your own press clippings."

And HS rankings are just that - ranking players while they are in HS. There’s no guarantee that it will translate to the collegiate level.