Waters Signed With LSU

[QDOG5]

This has the feel of a 10+ pager.

 

[boog204]

Geography is pretty damn important in recruiting, and while there are certainly plenty of kids who would prefer to get away from home, there remains a significant correlation between the two and the fact that so many local recruits are seemingly apathetic about playing here - despite all of the success - is concerning.

It's not something you can blame on KO, but it's not like this everywhere. Without any proof to back it up, I'd wager that say, Arizona, is not losing top 40 recruits from Arizona to LSU.

Never said geography was not important. If we were not getting any consideration from local kids then we would be screwed. But that is not the case. We did not get Waters because we have two better point guards on the roster already and he wants to be the guy. It's pretty simple. We did not get Diallo b/c the most prestigious basketball school in the country wanted him. We're not, at least in our current situation, winning that one. We did not get Heron because there was (supposedly) some super shady stuff going on and he had no interest in us. We do not have the greatest track record of dominating New England preps. I feel like we have lost far more than we've won in that regard. Guys like Ed Cota, Randall Jackson, Wenyen Gabriel, Abu, Omari Spellman, Chukwu, etc. come to mind.

In fact, in my boredom I looked up the Gatorade CT player of the year list. Since 1990, there have been 19 High D1 POYs from CT --> (Anthony Harris (Cuse), Marcus Camby (UMass), Kendrick Moore (Mizzou), Rash Jones, Earl Johnson (Rutgers), Edmund, Brooks Sales (Nova), Marcus Cox, Jeff McMillan (USC), Mark Konecny (Cuse), David McClure (Duke), Craig Austrie, Doug Wiggins, Mathew Bryan Amaning (Wash), Allan Chaney (Florida), Andre Drummond, Kris Dunn (PC), Steven Enoch, Tremont) We are 7 for 19. From memory: Harris had little interest in us; we definitely recruited/were beat for Camby, Dunn, Chaney, Wiggins (initially), Konecny, Amaning; we wanted McMillan but something shady happened on his visit; and I'm pretty sure we did not recruit Sales, Johnson, McClure (he committed very early), or Moore.

So we're 7 for 19 including Waters. Not all of those guys were top, top guys but from memory Dunn, Chaney, Harris, and Camby were definitely top 50ish. This doesn't Heron or others who I have forgotten about who were highly ranked.

Hate to break this to you, but we are not Arizona so that comparison is useless. But we have lost in-state talent to Florida, UMass, Cuse, and PC.

But to play the fun game... Using various sources that popped up from the google...

Of the top 30 recruits from:
2013, 8 stayed "home."
2014, 4 stayed "home."
2015, 7 stayed "home."
2016, 7 stayed "home."
2017, 4 stayed "home."

What was the whole point of this? I'm not exactly sure. But I'm not in panic mode over losing Waters. If you go here --> http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/rankings/new-england-class-of-2007 and then change the year you can see how few "top" New England guys we have actually gotten.

 

[UC56CAFF]

I HATE HIM.I HATE HIS DADDY.

Now that is not POLITICALLY CORRECT bwahahaha or as they say PC! Come on man!! PC????? That still means Providence College. I despise them both, thank you for opening up the real World brotato chip!

 

[Fan4ever]

It's not only a matter of losing Waters (which is a dissappointment), its the fact that we have become irrelevant Nationally. Does any recruit mention UCONN on the recruting trail any longer with the vigor of 4 NC's in the last 18 years? With that kind of track record, it should be self-promoting at a minimum with a coaching and recruiting staff to augment/excelerate. Nationally we hear...crickets. I guess we need better traction Internationally.

 

[CL82]

It's not only a matter of losing Waters (which is a dissappointment), its the fact that we have become irrelevant Nationally. Does any recruit mention UConn on the recruting trail any longer with the vigor of 4 NC's in the last 18 years? With that kind of track record, it should be self-promoting at a minimum with a coaching and recruiting staff to augment/excelerate. Nationally we hear...crickets. I guess we need better traction Internationally.

Do you think that might be due to the fact we are scrambling at the 11th hour to fill gaps created by the loss of 4 players? That's an uphill climb.

I love that somebody will mention a guy that we aren't recruiting and then when he goes somewhere else all of sudden the sky is falling. How does that make any sense?

In this case, Waters had no interest in playing for UConn, that was readily apparent. Probably because he'd be behind to many other guys here. Not a big deal really.

FWIW IMO, MAL was the big error by the staff (and really by KO.) As for the rest of our departure, I suspect that one player poisoned the well for our bigs by suggesting that their lack of success was due to our being a guard oriented team, rather than there lack of performance. I could be wrong, of course, but that's how I see it.

 

[Fan4ever]

CL82, I can understand your rationale, however if our Bigs were feeling neglected to the point that they unilaterally decide to leave, should that be a surprise? Who is monitoring the program (the players are basically your workforce), what were the Bigs told before they came? Can you blame them if they feel underused, underdeveloped...I know I would. If management is not "anticipating" then they are not doing their job. Lately, we have recruits changing their mind both before they come in (MAL, Ali, Turtle) and after they arrive at an alarming rate.

 

[CL82]

CL82, I can understand your rationale, however if our Bigs were feeling neglected to the point that they unilaterally decide to leave, should that be a surprise? Who is monitoring the program (the players are basically your workforce), what were the Bigs told before they came? Can you blame them if they feel underused, underdeveloped...I know I would. If management is not "anticipating" then they are not doing their job. Lately, we have recruits changing their mind both before they come in (MAL, Ali, Turtle) and after they arrive at an alarming rate.

Mmm, Ali at least was over recruited. His reaction is understandable and perhaps a mutual parting of the ways. I don't remember the Turtle circumstances.

I agree that ultimately the loss of bigs, is on the staff. Who else would it be on, right? They recruited them, they coached them. Sometimes one bad apple ruins the whole bunch, that's why you consider attitude and parents when you recruit, but no one bats 1000. Sometimes you get a guy who taints the well. Even the great Jim Calhoun wasn't immune to that.

 

[Coach J]

Do we still have any crystal balls on this one?

Tre Not!

 

[superjohn]

It's not only a matter of losing Waters (which is a dissappointment), its the fact that we have become irrelevant Nationally. Does any recruit mention UConn on the recruting trail any longer with the vigor of 4 NC's in the last 18 years? With that kind of track record, it should be self-promoting at a minimum with a coaching and recruiting staff to augment/excelerate. Nationally we hear...crickets. I guess we need better traction Internationally.

We are mentioned with a ton of top recruits but we can't close on a single one. It's wait and see mode right now, Ollie got his arse kicked the past year or so in recruiting and brought in Chillious to right the ship. Both of their jobs depend on their haul for 2018, they both better be grinding and closing like they never have before.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

I was one of those kids. Mostly cause like 20% of my graduating class went there and I never wanted to see them again, sooooo not a good place to start.

Same, I grew up right down the road in Coventry, but at a huge school like UConn, you'd be surprised how infrequently you run into those people unless they're actually in your program.

Basically, if you weren't in Engineering, I never saw you.

 

[UCweCONN]

Sadly, I suspect this won't be the last time we hear about Waters. Once a school jumper, always a school jumper.

 

[gtcam]

I love that somebody will mention a guy that we aren't recruiting and then when he goes somewhere else all of sudden the sky is falling. How does that make any sense?

No it doesn't, neither does it make sense when folks hear that a kid lists us on his list and then cuts it down - that is the fault of the staff they claim.
MAL, while it hurts that he was a oral commitment, was in the same boat as Waters. These guys want to step into a starting role and maybe/perhaps he thought JA was going to enter the draft. Just speculating.
I really don't want kids who don't want to be UConn Huskies. I also cringe at the 1 and done guys/grad xfers but do realize that sometimes they make a lot of sense.
My personal belief is that KO, while he feels he owes the program the need to pursue the 5*s, needs to relook at the strategy and start looking at the big strong high 3*s and low 4*s for bigs/wings and continue with getting the best PGs and SGs available. Recruiting 1 or 2 pure shooters every other year won't hurt and that will decrease the walk-on positions. There's a lot of kids who are dead eye shooters but maybe not as athletic as a true D1 starter - they can be great role players. The suburb HSs are full of them - nearly every midwest team has 1 or 2. UConn is known as a guard school and I honestly feel it still is very much thought that way. Of course, if there are 5* bigs/wings who are interested - go after them but don't waste time and energy on those who are using UConn as bartering material. My guess is that KO and staff can feel and get the inside info fairly quickly about where the recruits vision and heart lie.
Need to recruit to your strength and develop the rest BUT make sure the kid wants to be a UConn Husky without a hint of doubt (I know, easier said than done)

 

[Tenspro2002]

Mmm, Ali at least was over recruited. His reaction is understandable and perhaps a mutual parting of the ways. I don't remember the Turtle circumstances.

I agree that ultimately the loss of bigs, is on the staff. Who else would it be on, right? They recruited them, they coached them. Sometimes one bad apple ruins the whole bunch, that's why you consider attitude and parents when you recruit, but no one bats 1000. Sometimes you get a guy who taints the well. Even the great Jim Calhoun wasn't immune to that.

Ali was not mutual in any way shape or form, nor was he recruited over. That's pollyanna revisionist history. Ali blew up at an AAU event and seemed to decide he wanted a bigger stage, hence UConn being out and UCLA being in.

That we happened to get Jalen Adams later in the year was a very nice consolation prize, but we did not tell Ali to hit the road because we were bringing in Adams.

Jackson was mutual -- basically the opposite experience of Ali. He was getting exposed and it was becoming apparent he was overrated when we signed him. The staff likely indicated that they would prioritize other guys, and Jackson chose to go elsewhere. No problem there.

MAL, who knows. Maybe it was about playing time? But losing a top 40 local kid to a program with a far inferior track record and history is worrisome.

And the fact that another top 40 local kid (Waters) wouldn't even give us the time of day is disconcerting as well, regardless of how bizarre his recruitment was.

Diallo played the staff badly.

The pattern is not good. They have 12 months to show they can turn it around or they're gone. See Matta, Thad.

 

[CL82]

Ali was not mutual in any way shape or form, nor was he recruited over. That's pollyanna revisionist history. Ali blew up at an AAU event and seemed to decide he wanted a bigger stage, hence UConn being out and UCLA being in.

That we happened to get Jalen Adams later in the year was a very nice consolation prize, but we did not tell Ali to hit the road because we were bringing in Adams.

My recollection is different. I do recollect not being particularly concerned about Ali's departure because it seemed like we had better options. I'll see what everyone recollects and maybe do a quick Google tonight. I could easily be wrong though. Those are just my vague impressions.

 

[superjohn]

I love that somebody will mention a guy that we aren't recruiting and then when he goes somewhere else all of sudden the sky is falling. How does that make any sense?

No it doesn't, neither does it make sense when folks hear that a kid lists us on his list and then cuts it down - that is the fault of the staff they claim.
MAL, while it hurts that he was a oral commitment, was in the same boat as Waters. These guys want to step into a starting role and maybe/perhaps he thought JA was going to enter the draft. Just speculating.
I really don't want kids who don't want to be UConn Huskies. I also cringe at the 1 and done guys/grad xfers but do realize that sometimes they make a lot of sense.
My personal belief is that KO, while he feels he owes the program the need to pursue the 5*s, needs to relook at the strategy and start looking at the big strong high 3*s and low 4*s for bigs/wings and continue with getting the best PGs and SGs available. Recruiting 1 or 2 pure shooters every other year won't hurt and that will decrease the walk-on positions. There's a lot of kids who are dead eye shooters but maybe not as athletic as a true D1 starter - they can be great role players. The suburb HSs are full of them - nearly every midwest team has 1 or 2. UConn is known as a guard school and I honestly feel it still is very much thought that way. Of course, if there are 5* bigs/wings who are interested - go after them but don't waste time and energy on those who are using UConn as bartering material. My guess is that KO and staff can feel and get the inside info fairly quickly about where the recruits vision and heart lie.
Need to recruit to your strength and develop the rest BUT make sure the kid wants to be a UConn Husky without a hint of doubt (I know, easier said than done)

So basically you want us to be UMass.

 

[gtcam]

Ali was not mutual in any way shape or form, nor was he recruited over. That's pollyanna revisionist history. Ali blew up at an AAU event and seemed to decide he wanted a bigger stage, hence UConn being out and UCLA being in.

That we happened to get Jalen Adams later in the year was a very nice consolation prize, but we did not tell Ali to hit the road because we were bringing in Adams.

Jackson was mutual -- basically the opposite experience of Ali. He was getting exposed and it was becoming apparent he was overrated when we signed him. The staff likely indicated that they would prioritize other guys, and Jackson chose to go elsewhere. No problem there.

MAL, who knows. Maybe it was about playing time? But losing a top 40 local kid to a program with a far inferior track record and history is worrisome.

And the fact that another top 40 local kid (Waters) wouldn't even give us the time of day is disconcerting as well, regardless of how bizarre his recruitment was.

Diallo played the staff badly.

The pattern is not good. They have 12 months to show they can turn it around or they're gone. See Matta, Thad.

JA was known to be coming to UConn well before Ali uturned to UCLA
He left because JA was priority #1 and UCLA had an opening for a PG due to losing one to xfer and another to academics - yes he wanted a bigger stage (in his mind) - KO had nothing to do with this - if he had stayed he would have experienced 10 times the PT he has been getting
MAL - I agree but again PT was/is a factor - if Vital left, MAL would be here
Waters - he was a local kid who had no desire to attend UConn with 3 guards already there - all 3 most likely better than he

Diallo was ridiculous - the kid showed his true colors - so be it - he deserves The Squid - if he doesn't improve his shooting as well as gain a desire to defend he will have a short stay there and look for an apartment in Europe - a world of talent but a warped vision.

The pattern would be bad if there was no factors involved and just poor relationships with KO - that's just not the case.
I fully disagree with your 12 month theory

 

[Danzz]

Absolutely right.

There is a lot to be said for living in another part of the country for 4 years. I chose to south and learned I never want to live there but have no regrets.

 

[SECONN]

JA was known to be coming to UConn well before Ali uturned to UCLA
He left because JA was priority #1 and UCLA had an opening for a PG due to losing one to xfer and another to academics - yes he wanted a bigger stage (in his mind) - KO had nothing to do with this - if he had stayed he would have experienced 10 times the PT he has been getting
MAL - I agree but again PT was/is a factor - if Vital left, MAL would be here
Waters - he was a local kid who had no desire to attend UConn with 3 guards already there - all 3 most likely better than he

Diallo was ridiculous - the kid showed his true colors - so be it - he deserves The Squid - if he doesn't improve his shooting as well as gain a desire to defend he will have a short stay there and look for an apartment in Europe - a world of talent but a warped vision.

The pattern would be bad if there was no factors involved and just poor relationships with KO - that's just not the case.
I fully disagree with your 12 month theory

But there were three transfers and it is hard to ignore that in an assessment of the program. I think he needs to win or his recruiting will take another hit. That said I agree with the 12 month theory.

 

[the Q]

Same, I grew up right down the road in Coventry, but at a huge school like UConn, you'd be surprised how infrequently you run into those people unless they're actually in your program.

Basically, if you weren't in Engineering, I never saw you.

Yeah I think I over-estimated that possibility.

Call it the spotlight effect and that I was a stupid 18 year old kid.

 

[intlzncster]

Sadly, I suspect this won't be the last time we hear about Waters. Once a school jumper, always a school jumper.

Where'd you get that? Boat stuck around for us...

 

[Waquoit]

Where'd you get that? Boat stuck around for us...

I believe that was pulled out of his anal crevice.

 

[champs99and04]

Never said geography was not important. If we were not getting any consideration from local kids then we would be screwed. But that is not the case. We did not get Waters because we have two better point guards on the roster already and he wants to be the guy. It's pretty simple. We did not get Diallo b/c the most prestigious basketball school in the country wanted him. We're not, at least in our current situation, winning that one. We did not get Heron because there was (supposedly) some super shady stuff going on and he had no interest in us. We do not have the greatest track record of dominating New England preps. I feel like we have lost far more than we've won in that regard. Guys like Ed Cota, Randall Jackson, Wenyen Gabriel, Abu, Omari Spellman, Chukwu, etc. come to mind.

In fact, in my boredom I looked up the Gatorade CT player of the year list. Since 1990, there have been 19 High D1 POYs from CT --> (Anthony Harris (Cuse), Marcus Camby (UMass), Kendrick Moore (Mizzou), Rash Jones, Earl Johnson (Rutgers), Edmund, Brooks Sales (Nova), Marcus Cox, Jeff McMillan (USC), Mark Konecny (Cuse), David McClure (Duke), Craig Austrie, Doug Wiggins, Mathew Bryan Amaning (Wash), Allan Chaney (Florida), Andre Drummond, Kris Dunn (PC), Steven Enoch, Tremont) We are 7 for 19. From memory: Harris had little interest in us; we definitely recruited/were beat for Camby, Dunn, Chaney, Wiggins (initially), Konecny, Amaning; we wanted McMillan but something shady happened on his visit; and I'm pretty sure we did not recruit Sales, Johnson, McClure (he committed very early), or Moore.

So we're 7 for 19 including Waters. Not all of those guys were top, top guys but from memory Dunn, Chaney, Harris, and Camby were definitely top 50ish. This doesn't Heron or others who I have forgotten about who were highly ranked.

Hate to break this to you, but we are not Arizona so that comparison is useless. But we have lost in-state talent to Florida, UMass, Cuse, and PC.

But to play the fun game... Using various sources that popped up from the google...

Of the top 30 recruits from:
2013, 8 stayed "home."
2014, 4 stayed "home."
2015, 7 stayed "home."
2016, 7 stayed "home."
2017, 4 stayed "home."

What was the whole point of this? I'm not exactly sure. But I'm not in panic mode over losing Waters. If you go here --> http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/rankings/new-england-class-of-2007 and then change the year you can see how few "top" New England guys we have actually gotten.

You can explain away every individual recruitment with one excuse or another. That's the point. Eventually, the sample becomes large enough to where you can label it a problem. The research that you did, I think, corroborates that. UConn's success recruiting regional talent does not correspond to their success on the court. We can all venture a guess as to why this is, but ultimately it is still a problem, especially in an era where we're transitioning from an all-time great coach and competing in a second rate conference.

UConn has a brand problem and it is obvious. The fact that you scoff at the Arizona comparison - and look, I understand they're in a much more stable situation right now - is indicative of that. We're a storied program three years removed from a national championship with a head coach NBA stars fawn over and a newly minted practice facility. There are plenty of reasons to not come here, but they are more than outweighed by the other stuff. We should command the attention of every recruit in the country and we should have a monopoly over the East coast. Instead, we have Cal casting his d*** anywhere he damn pleases without the slightest bit of resistance and we lose the left-overs to St. Johns, LSU, and Providence.

Being "considered" doesn't move the needle, and I don't care what Kentucky has over us - this program has been great enough for long enough for an entire generation of recruits to have watched us on the national stage. We just can't hook them, and ultimately we lose them for the same reason we can't get into a damn conference. There's something about the school that just isn't...cool enough? This isn't Louisville where we're down the road from Kentucky and it isn't N.C. State where we're down the road from N.C. State and Duke. We have struck the perfect combination of existing within a saturated recruiting ground and being unrivaled within that base.

 

[upstater]

We lose the left-overs to St. Johns, LSU, and Providence.

Just remember the names Mo Harkless, Brandon Bass and Kris Dunn though.

Calhoun was on top of the world, riding NCs, playing in the BE at its height. And UConn's brand lost out to St. John's, LSU and Providence.

I worry about the players who are here much, much, much more than the players that don't land here.

I guess I do remember the Jamal Sampsons, Ike Diogus, Doron Lambs of the world, and I wish I didn't, but the knowledge of the many stud players that come through always reassures me, even if they are players that UConn settles for.

I want to see the coaches help the current players be successful. Between Cobb, Carlton, Onuorah and Diarra, it is not out of the question that they can provide the team what Olander, Nolan and Brimah did in 2014. I can't see how anyone would argue otherwise.

The big concern is that almost no one on this team has played together outside of Vital and Adams. Now that is a problem. But this is why you have coaches.

 

[boog204]

UConn has a brand problem and it is obvious. The fact that you scoff at the Arizona comparison - and look, I understand they're in a much more stable situation right now - is indicative of that. We're a storied program three years removed from a national championship with a head coach NBA stars fawn over and a newly minted practice facility. There are plenty of reasons to not come here, but they are more than outweighed by the other stuff. We should command the attention of every recruit in the country and we should have a monopoly over the East coast. Instead, we have Cal casting his d*** anywhere he damn pleases without the slightest bit of resistance and we lose the left-overs to St. Johns, LSU, and Providence.

Being "considered" doesn't move the needle, and I don't care what Kentucky has over us - this program has been great enough for long enough for an entire generation of recruits to have watched us on the national stage. We just can't hook them, and ultimately we lose them for the same reason we can't get into a damn conference. There's something about the school that just isn't...cool enough? This isn't Louisville where we're down the road from Kentucky and it isn't N.C. State where we're down the road from N.C. State and Duke. We have struck the perfect combination of existing within a saturated recruiting ground and being unrivaled within that base.

I agree with all of this - but to me, it is no different than it has always been. Even when we were winning 30 a year and being a consistent top 10 team, we did not recruit at the level of a UNC, Duke, 'Zona, UK, etc. We tended to get their backup guy (Ben Gordon, for example) and then every few years pop in a stud. I'm not sure if we want to call it a "brand" issue or if it's that players just did not want to play here, but you are right that was/is a consistent issue.

From an experiential background, I attended UConn from 98-02. Best time of my life. But I have to admit, that when I visited my buddy who attended the Univ of Maryland, the experience was just "better." Maybe it was a grass is greener or just new experience, but it was always more exciting, there was more going on, more options for everything. Attending games at Cole Field House made our games feel like a high school game; and this was when we were still selling every game out and a national power. I actually stopped getting season tickets my senior year as it was more fun to to party w/ my friends at my apt and watch the games then actually attend.

The point of my post was that our recruiting, especially regionally, has not changed. There absolutely is a problem and life would be much easier if we could dominate the Northeast recruiting scene but we have never done that. Even in our heyday, we did not recruit like Arizona.

 

[mauconnfan]

I'm not sure but is there any chance, in a thread about a kid who UConn didn't recruit someone can mention YET AGAIN, that 2018 is a very important recruiting year for KO as if we didn't know this already.

I swear people gloat in failure, it amazes me.

 

[MSGSeven]

Calhoun was one of the greatest recruiters ever to the tune of 4 NC's (2014 were almost all his recruits). We can't expect KO to be on his level especially being in the AAC. However, Adams should be one of the best players in the country next season and Gilbert and Larrier might not be too far behind.

 

[mauconnfan]

Calhoun was one of the greatest recruiters ever to the tune of 4 NC's (2014 were almost all his recruits). We can't expect KO to be on his level especially being in the AAC. However, Adams should be one of the best players in the country next season and Gilbert and Larrier might not be too far behind.

KO had one of those 3 NC's but no doubt he has a couple really good players on this team and if they stay healthy success should return to Storrs. Hopefully the pieces, some of which are unknown, fit in where required.

 

[boog204]

I'm not sure but is there any chance, in a thread about a kid who UConn didn't recruit someone can mention YET AGAIN, that 2018 is a very important recruiting year for KO as if we didn't know this already.

I swear people gloat in failure, it amazes me.

2018 is a really important recruiting year for KO...

 

[mauconnfan]

2018 is a really important recruiting year for KO...

I know I know boog it's been duly noted from some posters about 1,000 times.

I agree it is but to correlate it with a weird recruiting event like Waters is so stupid. I mean it's been discussed so many times anyone who brings it up on a thread about a kid who really shouldn't even have a thread, is just ridiculous. We get it, even a "Polyanna" like myself understands the impact of 2018 and 2019's recruiting classes but I doubt I need to remind anyone at this point.

 

[boog204]

I know I know boog it's been duly noted from some posters about 1,000 times.

I agree it is but to correlate it with a weird recruiting event like Waters is so stupid. I mean it's been discussed so many times anyone who brings it up on a thread about a kid who really shouldn't even have a thread, is just ridiculous. We get it, even a "Polyanna" like myself understands the impact of 2018 and 2019's recruiting classes but I doubt I need to remind anyone at this point.

Yep, the correlation with Waters is spurious. The Waters recruitment is as weird a saga as I can ever remember. From what they supposedly wanted out of a school (Duke, Yale, GTown, Stanford) to the hazy decommitment, several confir_ed moments, "we might get him by default" moments, strange "picking up steam" moments from WKU and Creighton and then ultimately signing with that bastion of academia, LSU. Kasongo'd is nothing compared to this.