Warde on Record: 10,000 More Seats (Hartford Business Journal)

[FfldCntyFan]

Need people NOT seats.

We need both or we may as well give up now.

I realize that we need to be far closer to where we were (in terms of attendance) eight years ago than we had been the past few seasons but it would be far too Hathaway-esque to wait until we do reach those attendance levels before we consider discussing expansion.

 

[UConnJim]

WE are


This trend has been going on even during the Fiesta Bowl years. Fill this up for two years then somebody is interested. otherwise we won't expand.

Look at the average attendance. It was basically 38k per season +\- from 2006 to 2010, then PP hit. AND, the attendance would have been higher if we had a bigger stadium and sold more seats to the sold out games. AND there were 29 sold out games up until 2011. You are leaving money on the table and you have interest rates at historical lows.

If you don't expand the stadium, forget about a P5 bid and you are risking your whole athletic program. Given low interest rates and the stadium being built to expand easily, it is the righ time to do it.

 

[Waquoit]

the attendance would have been higher if we had a bigger stadium and sold more seats to the sold out games. AND there were 29 sold out games up until 2011. You are leaving money on the table and you have interest rates at historical lows.

Excellent point that gets lost in the discussion.

 

[BlueMAB]

WE are


This trend has been going on even during the Fiesta Bowl years. Fill this up for two years then somebody is interested. otherwise we won't expand.

Debbie: This trend has been going on across the country.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2014/02/17/Colleges/Attendance.aspx

Rutgers expanded, then got the invite. Louisville expanded, then got the invite. TCU expanded, then got the invite first from the Big East, then Big 12. Of course there were other factors, but name one school that got an invite to a P5 conference and THEN upgraded.

 

[UConnJim]

Look at Rutgers. They spent $102 million and increased the seating capacity by 10k. Have they ever sold the tickets? The answer is no. For example, in 2009, Rutgers gave away 24% of tickets. In 2011, the complementary tickets grew to 41% of tickets. In other words, in 2011, Rutgers sold an average of 25.7k tickets and gave away about 18k. (Stadium capacity is 52.5k) Season tickets sold in 2012 were 18.8k, in 2013 22k, and they expect 26k in 2014 playing in the Big 10. (I think we could top those #s.)

Should Rutgers have expanded the stadium and goosed attendance by giving away tickets? ABSOLUTELY! In the long run, it got them into the Big 10 as they created the illusion that they are a big time football school with good fan support. (And we all know the history of Rutgers football.) By spending $102 million, they will probably generate an additional $30 mill+ in additional revenues per year and landed their athletic programs in a safe place.

Clearly, the Big 10 is taking a major risk with adding Rutgers as they don't have a history of success or large fan support. As UConn fans, we want Rutgers to succeed to prove that Northeastern additions to the Big 10 can add value.

Everyone needs to stop thinking small time and we need to expand to make us more attractive to P5 conferences. Interest rates are much lower today than when Rutgers expanded and our stadium was designed to be expanded easily at a much lower cost.

 

[Palatine]

The stadium needs to be big enough for the biggest games, the games that generate enormous profit. That's how you make money.

 

[UConnJim]

The stadium needs to be big enough for the biggest games, the games that generate enormous profit. That's how you make money.

Exactly! And, big name schools are not going to easily come to a 40k seat stadium which is another reason we need to expand.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

The stadium needs to be big enough for the biggest games, the games that generate enormous profit. That's how you make money.

The brief cases of SH and WM should have copies of an irrevocable (no future "plug pulling." I don't trust Politicians.) legal document signed by what/whom ever has the power to make a State Document irrevocable, that says that construction on an n-seat Rent expansion begins within a specified number of days from receipt of a legally binding invitation. A legally binding, albatross-free commitment.

 

[UConnJim]

The brief cases of SH and WM should have copies of an irrevocable (no future "plug pulling." I don't trust Politicians.) legal document signed by what/whom ever has the power to make a State Document irrevocable, that says that construction on an n-seat Rent expansion begins within a specified number of days from receipt of a legally binding invitation. A legally binding, albatross-free commitment.

Some people just don't get it. The objective is to PROVE your attractiveness, not PROMISE your attractiveness. There is not one school that has chosen the "promise" route to try to get an invite. Louisville? Nope. Rutgers? Nope. TCU? Nope. Utah? Nope. They were all proactive. And you have other schools investing to become more attractive like Cincinnati, Houston, and UCF. Even Tulane is building a new stadium. And, I don't understand how people don't see we are at historically low interest rates. If you wait to expand, the interest cost could be double what we would pay now.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

Debbie: This trend has been going on across the country.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2014/02/17/Colleges/Attendance.aspx

Rutgers expanded, then got the invite. Louisville expanded, then got the invite. TCU expanded, then got the invite first from the Big East, then Big 12. Of course there were other factors, but name one school that got an invite to a P5 conference and THEN upgraded.

We did.

 

[FAIRTIDES]

Some people just don't get it. The objective is to PROVE your attractiveness, not PROMISE your attractiveness. There is not one school that has chosen the "promise" route to try to get an invite. Louisville? Nope. Rutgers? Nope. TCU? Nope. Utah? Nope. They were all proactive. And you have other schools investing to become more attractive like Cincinnati, Houston, and UCF. Even Tulane is building a new stadium. And, I don't understand how people don't see we are at historically low interest rates. If you wait to expand, the interest cost could be double what we would pay now.

Have you ever been in an empty, or even half-empty venue? Stadium, movie house, restaurant, factory, Amusement Park? The emptiness can't be hidden. They are depressing. They taint everything they come in contact with; people, programs, institutions.

That being said, if there is reasonable (there are never guarantees) data to suggest that we can fill 50-60K seats for ECU, Memphis, Tulane, etc. Then, go for it. I spent a good portion of my corporate life being chided about using shareholder money on seemingly risky ventures. Believe me, I was the aggressive one in the room; the one who induced the eye rolls. The problem I have is that our present situation makes bringing Michigan type games to the Rent more than problematic. I think the proper affiliation would allow us to, occasionally, fill 70K seats. I'm that optimistic. Moreover, I think that prospect can be sold. The problem I have is that an unfortunate, ill-timed expansion would have the effect of possibly killing more than UCONN FB. Even the most aggressive of us are taught to avoid the mistake from which there is no recovery.

Of course this is all moot. I'm one who believes that conference affiliation and stadium size have already been determined. Just awaiting an announcement.

 

[UConnJim]

Have you ever been in an empty, or even half-empty venue? Stadium, movie house, restaurant, factory, Amusement Park? The emptiness can't be hidden. They are depressing. They taint everything they come in contact with; people, programs, institutions.

That being said, if there is reasonable (there are never guarantees) data to suggest that we can fill 50-60K seats for ECU, Memphis, Tulane, etc. Then, go for it. I spent a good portion of my corporate life being chided about using shareholder money on seemingly risky ventures. Believe me, I was the aggressive one in the room; the one who induced the eye rolls. The problem I have is that our present situation makes bringing Michigan type games to the Rent more than problematic. I think the proper affiliation would allow us to, occasionally, fill 70K seats. I'm that optimistic. Moreover, I think that prospect can be sold. The problem I have is that an unfortunate, ill-timed expansion would have the effect of possibly killing more than UCONN FB. Even the most aggressive of us are taught to avoid the mistake from which there is no recovery.

Of course this is all moot. I'm one who believes that conference affiliation and stadium size have already been determined. Just awaiting an announcement.

OK. Now I see that you are optimistic. But, you don't get many opportunities to borrow money for next to nothing, so you have to take the plunge.

By the way, what is more depressing than a half empty stadium is being stuck in the AAC.

 

[BlueMAB]

We did.

The Big East is a P5 conference? Last I checked Big East Football didn't exist.

UConn was also already in the Big East

Apples to oranges.

 

[rich1122]

Excellent point that gets lost in the discussion.

Dream on boys.

 

[Carl Spackler]

The Big East is a P5 conference? Last I checked Big East Football didn't exist.

UConn was also already in the Big East

Apples to oranges.

Duncan is right. UCONN football is unique in the landscape across the country. USF is another complete outlier, in that they went straight from nothing - NO program - into the Big Money club of big boy football. UCONN had been playing football for over a century before joining the big money club of big boy football.

There is no other 1-AA football program that got the golden ticket like we did. Boise State, Marshall, among others have upgraded successfully from 1-AA, to big boy football, and done well but nobody other than UCONN was at that 1-AA level, and given the opportunity to go straight to the Big Money club, of big boy football.

The fact that UCONN was in the Big East, for everything except Big East football from 1979-2003, and then joined Big East football is the ONLY reason it happened.

VIllanova is the only other 1-AA program that could be similar to the path UCONN has taken, as they were extended the same offer - but they balked - for 13 years, with IMNSHO, the last balk in 2010-2011 being so badly executed and pitiful, that it was the final straw for the entire conference.

Other programs, like Cincinatti, Louisville, and Temple, really being the only ones - all having to do with their relationships with the Big East conference....have been playing at the big boy football all along, and have bounced either in or out of the big money club of big boy football.

UCONN is the only program to upgrade from 1-AA and have been bounced in and out of the big money club.

 

[BlueMAB]

Duncan is right.

Really? Because everything that follows that sentence supports my point.

 

[BlueMAB]

Dream on boys.

Thanks Jeff, but Warde is running the show now.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Really? Because everything that follows that sentence supports my point.

The Big East WAS a power conference. The Big East was one of the founding 6 conferences in 1991-1992 of what became the BCS-AQ post season bowl system, that created the huge money divide that exists in college football now out of the demise of the CFA (college football association). The CFA ceased doing business in 1997 around college football television money, and the BCS began in 1998. Between 1991-1997 there were a few iterations/evolutions of it all as the CFA was dying and the BCS was growing. The Big East was part of the group that would be called now - the Power 6 (P6) conferences.

The term P5 conferences was coined by ESPN writers in the past 2 years, because the Big East no longer exists, as does the BCS with revolved around those six conferences (now 5) no longer exists.

IF you're going to argue semantics - so be it - but UCONN is the only school in the country that fits the profile of a 1-AA program being invited to upgrade into a "power" conference, before they actually upgraded. (upgrading was a given condition, involving the invite to the conference)

I agree semantics though, since the demise of Big East football in 2012, there has been no 1-AA program extended and invite to a P5 conference.

 

[BlueDogs]

A 50,000 seat stadium is a no brainer, and there is plenty of room for 10,000 seat with minimal structural changes required. I agree now is the time to finance the build. It is cheap borrowed money. The stadium swallowed 5K seats during the Michigan game like it was nothing. The question is can we will fill it with low draw teams. We have a pretty solid schedule this year with some attractive match ups, but I don't see how we sustain with Tulane, Houston, SMU, Memphis and ECU on tap. There are not only mid-major programs, they also are so far removed from our region it seems unlikely to catch regional interest with "regular" fans. Of course, winning solves a lot of problems.

 

[BlueMAB]

The Big East WAS a power conference. The Big East was one of the founding 6 conferences in 1991-1992 of what became the BCS-AQ post season bowl system, that created the huge money divide that exists in college football now out of the demise of the CFA (college football association). The CFA ceased doing business in 1997 around college football television money, and the BCS began in 1998. Between 1991-1997 there were a few iterations/evolutions of it all as the CFA was dying and the BCS was growing. The Big East was part of the group that would be called now - the Power 6 (P6) conferences.

The term P5 conferences was coined by ESPN writers in the past 2 years, because the Big East no longer exists, as does the BCS with revolved around those six conferences (now 5) no longer exists.

IF you're going to argue semantics - so be it - but UCONN is the only school in the country that fits the profile of a 1-AA program being invited to upgrade into a "power" conference, before they actually upgraded. (upgrading was a given condition, involving the invite to the conference)

I agree semantics though, since the demise of Big East football in 2012, there has been no 1-AA program extended and invite to a P5
conference.

I like you Carl, but not every post requires a history lesson. You're so busy assuming nobody else knows the history of what happened that you often miss the fun-hating point.

Since you want to argue I'll give you UConn's invite to a dying conference over 10 years ago.

However, Rutgers, Louisville, and TCU all upgraded BEFORE they got invites.

One last time:

A) We were already part of the conference (apples to oranges).
B) It's another example of the failure of the Big East. Trying to survive football realignment by asking two 1AA programs to upgrade.
C) The Big East kicked Temple out, then added them back, and has basically turned itself into Conference USA. Does anyone really think the B1G will operate in the same manner as the Big East? Because that has to be your conclusion if you want to argue this stuff and agree with Rich that we shouldn't upgrade unless and until we get an invite.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I like you Carl, but not every post requires a history lesson. You're so busy assuming nobody else knows the history of what happened that you often miss the point.

Since you want to argue I'll give you UConn's invite to a dying conference over 10 years ago.

However, Rutgers, Louisville, and TCU all upgraded BEFORE they got invites.

One last time:

A) We were already part of the conference (apples to oranges).
B) It's another example of the failure of the Big East. Trying to survive football realignment by asking two 1AA programs to upgrade.
C) The Big East kicked Temple out, then added them back, and has basically turned itself into Conference USA. Does anyone really think the B1G will operate in the same manner as the Big East? Because that has to be your conclusion if you want to argue this stuff and agree with Rich that we shouldn't upgrade unless and until we get an invite.

You're wrong for disagreeing with Duncan, and the only real thing to argue there is the semantics of it. That's what I pointed out. UCONN is actually the example you asked for when you wrote the statement including: "name one......" in a post above. We are actually the ONLY one to ever make the move(s) that we did.

I write my history lessons repeatedly most for the continuing stream of new readers this website generates to spread the word about what UCONN really is.

I have been a vocal proponent of expanding the stadium for many years. The stadium was initially designed for a 50k capacity, and I was against the two stage building project that was eventually arrived it, I wanted it built all at once - for exactly the reasons we have not yet expanded. As a tenant and not an owner, UCONN doesn't actually make the call on such a matter. The ideal circumstances to expand and build out to the originally designed specs, and complete the project - was in 2008-2009 fiscally, with momentum of the program and ticket sales. By then, Lew Perkins was 4 years removed, and Hathaway/Austin et.al. were sitting around with their thumbs in the bunghole.

As it is now, Rentschler field in 2014, remains an uncompleted state construction project that is over a decade old now. It's not a matter of expansion yet - semantics really, and truthfully as well - as it is completing the originally designed structure.

And you are completely mistaken if you think, that UCONN does not need to have a proper 'alignment' of success, ticket sales, revenue generation through hard cash means, to get the momentum going necessary for the actual decision makers involved - to get the stadium completed.

IF UCONN owned the facility, I believe it would have been completed and finished out to 50,000 at least before the 2013 season and the Michigan game. It would definitely be in the process of completion under the current president/AD leadership of the school. But we don't own it. So we have to sell completing the project to the state, and the management contractors of the facility.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

Rutgers Louisville and TCU's expansions all came on the heels of winning or having that breakout season. TCU was averaging 11 wins a season for 7 years before announcing expansion. I would love to have a 65K stadium but talking up CR and winning will go a long way for the stadium proponents to get this thing over the hump. I'm glad Warde is putting it out there, its the start.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Rutgers Louisville and TCU's expansions all came on the heels of winning or having that breakout season. TCU was averaging 11 wins a season for 7 years before announcing expansion. I would love to have a 65K stadium but talking up CR and winning will go a long way for the stadium proponents to get this thing over the hump. I'm glad Warde is putting it out there, its the start.

Exactly. Building out the stadium.... It needs to be part of the consciousness. So to say. I'd like to see it motioned and moved on and put out there in the public for what it truthfully is.

Because it's technically not 'expansion' yet, which the term itself will generate negative ninny blowback. What Rentschler Field truly is right now - is an unfinished project.

What UCONN should really be pushing for, is the completion of the originally designed project at minimal cost.

Just my two cents - I think that kind of approach, given all the conference shifiting, and the rest of the stuff as back drop, is an approach that can work.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Hey, I've been advocating to expand for years now. But as tenants, there's only so much UConn can do in a state with way too many Ken Krayeskes out there.

 

[UConnJim]

Rutgers Louisville and TCU's expansions all came on the heels of winning or having that breakout season. TCU was averaging 11 wins a season for 7 years before announcing expansion. I would love to have a 65K stadium but talking up CR and winning will go a long way for the stadium proponents to get this thing over the hump. I'm glad Warde is putting it out there, its the start.

If most on this board looked at Louisville's attendance when they announced the expansion to 55k, they would have argued not to do it. Thankfully for Louisville, they had an AD with foresight and they took the risk to expand and then figured out a way to sell more seats.

Papa John's had a capacity of 42.5k and their attendance from 2005 to 2008 when they announced the expansion was 41.1k, 41.5k, 39.9k, 39.7k. The season before the expansion opened, 2009, Louisville averaged 32.5k fans. They had been Kragthorped like UConn was PP'd.

What happened after they expanded? Here are the 4 years of attendance: 50.6k, 48.5k, 50k, 52.9k. So, Louisville went from not selling out the 42.5k seat stadium to increasing attendance beyond the old capacity, although not selling out the new seats. Think about this, in the first year of expansion, they went from an average attendance of 32.5k to 50.6k. Clearly, the pressure was on the Louisville AD to hire a good coach to replace Kragthorpe and to fill the stadium. And, he did it! Not only did he put people in the seats, the expansion lead Louisville into the ACC.

I want the pressure on UConn's AD to fill an expanded football stadium! I don't want talk, I want action! Hire the right coach. Market to the fans. Bring in good opponents.

Bottom line, with interest rates this low, JUST EXPAND THE STADIUM!

 

[rich1122]

Get 3

Debbie: This trend has been going on across the country.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2014/02/17/Colleges/Attendance.aspx

Rutgers expanded, then got the invite. Louisville expanded, then got the invite. TCU expanded, then got the invite first from the Big East, then Big 12. Of course there were other factors, but name one school that got an invite to a P5 conference and THEN upgraded.

In 2012 RU had avg attendance of almost 50K while we had attendance of 35K. The last year of PP was even worse. In 2013 RU was 47K and UCONN 31K. If we get 28K ST this year then I say we have to begin to think about it. Otherwise we just have to wait for the fan momentum.

 

[BlueMAB]

Get 3

In 2012 RU had avg attendance of almost 50K while we had attendance of 35K. The last year of PP was even worse. In 2013 RU was 47K and UCONN 31K. If we get 28K ST this year then I say we have to begin to think about it. Otherwise we just have to wait for the fan momentum.

What would their attendance have been if they didn't upgrade the stadium in 2009?

 

[BlueMAB]

You're wrong for disagreeing with Duncan, and the only real thing to argue there is the semantics of it. That's what I pointed out. UCONN is actually the example you asked for when you wrote the statement including: "name one." in a post above. We are actually the ONLY one to ever make the move(s) that we did.

I write my history lessons repeatedly most for the continuing stream of new readers this website generates to spread the word about what UCONN really is.

I have been a vocal proponent of expanding the stadium for many years. The stadium was initially designed for a 50k capacity, and I was against the two stage building project that was eventually arrived it, I wanted it built all at once - for exactly the reasons we have not yet expanded. As a tenant and not an owner, UCONN doesn't actually make the call on such a matter. The ideal circumstances to expand and build out to the originally designed specs, and complete the project - was in 2008-2009 fiscally, with momentum of the program and ticket sales. By then, Lew Perkins was 4 years removed, and Hathaway/Austin et.al. were sitting around with their thumbs in the bunghole.

As it is now, Rentschler field in 2014, remains an uncompleted state construction project that is over a decade old now. It's not a matter of expansion yet - semantics really, and truthfully as well - as it is completing the originally designed structure.

And you are completely mistaken if you think, that UCONN does not need to have a proper 'alignment' of success, ticket sales, revenue generation through hard cash means, to get the momentum going necessary for the actual decision makers involved - to get the stadium completed.

IF UCONN owned the facility, I believe it would have been completed and finished out to 50,000 at least before the 2013 season and the Michigan game. It would definitely be in the process of completion under the current president/AD leadership of the school. But we don't own it. So we have to sell completing the project to the state, and the management contractors of the facility.

The way that you continue to point out that the Big East was the only BCS conference that actually wanted 1AA teams to upgrade and join...

and you STILL don't get the point about the way the B1G operates is mind-numbing.

I said P5 conferences for a reason. The Big East no longer exists for a reason. That you guys insist UConn got an invite to a P5 conference isn't semantics. It's the point you're missing. The Big East had a small time mind set. UConn had a small time mindset. The programs that have proven themselves to behave like the big boys, are sitting with the big boys. If we want a seat at that table we have to drag this state there, not pray at the altar of Diaco. We can't afford to wait on a bunch of fair-weather, front-running fans to start buying season tickets when they can get tickets to for $20 in the parking lot.

We've shown the ability to sell out the big games. We've shown that when we have a winning team, we'll sell out more than half our games. We have to assume we're going to have a winning team, that's always the goal, isn't it? While Diaco starts winning games, we have to control the narrative that we must expand to survive. If you aren't growing, you're dying. If we get ourselves in a B1G conference, the ticket sales will follow. Just like they did when we upgraded from Memorial to the Rent.

 

[rich1122]

What would their attendance have been if they didn't upgrade the stadium in 2009?

43K I checked.

So you guys mean to tell me that we are going to go from 31K to 50K where the biggest game of the year had 50% of the opposing team's fans. Show me the money. 28K ST this year and I am all in, otherwise I do not trust our fan base.

Don't take me wrong guys. I have never missed a Home Game and I am hoping every second that I am wrong, but it will take 5 years to get to another conference.

 

[BlueMAB]

43K I checked.

So you guys mean to tell me that we are going to go from 31K to 50K where the biggest game of the year had 50% of the opposing team's fans. Show me the money. 28K ST this year and I am all in, otherwise I do not trust our fan base.

Don't take me wrong guys. I have never missed a Home Game and I am hoping every second that I am wrong, but it will take 5 years to get to another conference.

1) you checked, and still miss the point. Had they not expanded, that's 7k, and 4k tickets they would have left on the table the last two years.
2) Nobody said we were going to go from 31 to 50k. Expansion is not done for what happens the year after it's completed. It's for what will happen for the few decades after it's been completed.
3) No way Michigan had 50% of the fans there, I was there too, you're full of it. You're also ignoring the 38 other sellouts. Did all of those teams fill half the stadium too?
4) Yes, it will likely take 3-5 years to get to another conference. Which is why you start beating the drum for expansion now. We already waited too long, waiting again could be the nail in the coffin. If the AD and Pres don't push expansion, they aren't doing everything they can to save the program. That's not hyperbole (unlike your Michigan attendance comment) that's the truth.

Thank God our AD doesn't share this small time thinking.