Warde Manual ... this ain't UBuffalo

[upstater]

FCF, we clearly disagree. But now answer my question. How long are you willing to wait for Ollie to produce? I'll even say as long as he finishes a game over .500 this year, he'll be extended. But keeping in mind that Williams won 30 games his second year, how many years are you willing to give Ollie before: A. He gets to the NCAA tournament; and B: His team makes a deep run?

The real question is what do you expect given that he has to recruit with one hand tied behind his back.

 

[freescooter]

He hasn't coached a game and the excuses are already starting...and you guys don't think if he goes 18-14 3 years from now upstater won't be posting " We can't fire hime. He's just a year away?"

 

[HuskyHawk]

We're not as cunning as Big12 schools. They need to be able to compete with the UTs and OUs of the world. How else do you sell living in Kansas for a few years?

Partly by having people visit. Lawrence KS is, among other things, a much nicer place to live than Storrs. I've lived in both. Your parochial ignorance, common to New Englanders, is not surprising. I had the role of interviewing potential law professors my third year at KU law. Recall one from DC (worked for DOJ) who fell in love with Lawrence immediately and just raved about the place. Couldn't wait to move his family from the DC area.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want to live in Norman, OK.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The real question is what do you expect given that he has to recruit with one hand tied behind his back.

I don't think the one year contract is much of a handicap. Calhoun had to recruit for a program that was in the basement of the Big East and played in the Field House. Somehow he managed. Would KO be better off with a longer contract...maybe a tiny bit. Is he still better positioned to recruit than 95% of the other coaches in D1? Yes, absolutely.

I'm not really worried about his recruiting, that's the one thing he's actually done. I want to see if he can run a program, if he can coach in a game, if he can motivate the kids, recover from a tough stretch, get them to rise for big games. I want to see if he can get them to improve. I want to see what his X's and O's look like. I want to see what defense he will run and what kind of offense. Those are the things that will determine whether he's still here a year from now or not. Not recruiting. Calhoun's legacy is not based on great recruiting. It's based on coaching up his kids. Getting the most out of them, and making them better players than anyone expected.

By the way, I have high hopes that Kevin can do this. Now we just need to see it.

 

[Pudge]

Interim sucks.

That's the basic answer. I totally dismiss the post above this. You cannot get much traction at all with a One Year. I get why Warde Manual did this. But ... if Kevin Ollie comes out with an aggressive Team that plays hard & Kevin Ollie continues to get rave notice about who likes him amongst upcoming prospects & Kevin Ollie handles the media/Public responsibilities of the UConn job ... you need to make an assessment by February what you are doing.

As much as you think you'll get a solid Calhoun replacement, my point is that you're not. You are going to take a Leap of Faith with a second tier guy. Is that a higher probability of success, at this time, than Kevin Ollie ... ABSOLUTELY. But, it's never going to be near 100% to get near our past 20 years. In fact, the likely scenario is Villanova or something. Ollie enthuses me (as a family member) ... until he doesn't.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Interim sucks.

That's the basic answer. I totally dismiss the post above this. You cannot get much traction at all with a One Year. I get why Warde Manual did this. But ... if Kevin Ollie comes out with an aggressive Team that plays hard & Kevin Ollie continues to get rave notice about who likes him amongst upcoming prospects & Kevin Ollie handles the media/Public responsibilities of the UConn job ... you need to make an assessment by February what you are doing.

As much as you think you'll get a solid Calhoun replacement, my point is that you're not. You are going to take a Leap of Faith with a second tier guy. Is that a higher probability of success, at this time, than Kevin Ollie ... ABSOLUTELY. But, it's never going to be near 100% to get near our past 20 years. In fact, the likely scenario is Villanova or something. Ollie enthuses me (as a family member) ... until he doesn't.

JC caused the situation. He could have and should have retired in the Spring. At this point in the season, it is irresponsible to do anything but appoint an interim coach.

As for Kevin Ollie, I think it's pretty simple. I don't think the fact that potential recruits do or don't like him is particularly relevant. Instead, I think the AD and administration will be looking at how he runs practices, how the kids do in class (and whether they go), what kind of game coach he is, how he handles ups and downs of the season and how he handles the media. It's his job to keep or lose. If he seems overmatched, and is getting out-coached left and right, and if he can't handle the stress of the media and of trying to keep the players in line, in class etc, then he'll be pronounced "not ready". Either Kevin Ollie is up for this job or he's not. It will be obvious to all of us by February, which is the case.

You all make way too much out of the one year thing. I don't think it has any effect on recruiting whatsoever. Every coach can be fired, and in Calhoun's case, he's been a year to year coach who could retire any time for at least the last couple of years. What's the difference? They are signing to come to UConn. If the coach in 13-14 isn't KO, he still won't be a bum.

 

[upstater]

He hasn't coached a game and the excuses are already starting...and you guys don't think if he goes 18-14 3 years from now upstater won't be posting " We can't fire hime. He's just a year away?"

Have you even been paying attention? I've been totally critical of the admin. for not giving him a longer contract. No one does that.

 

[upstater]

JC caused the situation. He could have and should have retired in the Spring. At this point in the season, it is irresponsible to do anything but appoint an interim coach.

As for Kevin Ollie, I think it's pretty simple. I don't think the fact that potential recruits do or don't like him is particularly relevant. Instead, I think the AD and administration will be looking at how he runs practices, how the kids do in class (and whether they go), what kind of game coach he is, how he handles ups and downs of the season and how he handles the media. It's his job to keep or lose. If he seems overmatched, and is getting out-coached left and right, and if he can't handle the stress of the media and of trying to keep the players in line, in class etc, then he'll be pronounced "not ready". Either Kevin Ollie is up for this job or he's not. It will be obvious to all of us by February, which is the case.

You all make way too much out of the one year thing. I don't think it has any effect on recruiting whatsoever. Every coach can be fired, and in Calhoun's case, he's been a year to year coach who could retire any time for at least the last couple of years. What's the difference? They are signing to come to UConn. If the coach in 13-14 isn't KO, he still won't be a bum.

Bunk. Calhoun went from the greatest coach ever in 2011 to coaching a fiasco last year.
You also seem to forget he busted his hip.

In any endeavour, you want to give yourself every chance to succeed. Half-arsing it is going to yield half-arsed results.

 

[huskymedic]

As for Kevin Ollie, I think it's pretty simple. I don't think the fact that potential recruits do or don't like him is particularly relevant. Instead, I think the AD and administration will be looking at how he runs practices, how the kids do in class (and whether they go), what kind of game coach he is, how he handles ups and downs of the season and how he handles the media. It's his job to keep or lose. If he seems overmatched, and is getting out-coached left and right, and if he can't handle the stress of the media and of trying to keep the players in line, in class etc, then he'll be pronounced "not ready". Either Kevin Ollie is up for this job or he's not. It will be obvious to all of us by February, which is the case.

THIS^^^^ Less about wins and losses and more about a professional program representing the university.

 

[freescooter]

Have you even been paying attention? I've been totally critical of the admin. for not giving him a longer contract. No one does that.

Why give him a long term contract for recruiting purposes when they don't even know if he can coach? though I'm not even sure he will be the coach in anything but name this year to hear Calhoun tell it at the Middlesex Chamber Breakfast this week...

 

[upstater]

Why give him a long term contract for recruiting purposes when they don't even know if he can coach? though I'm not even sure he will be the coach in anything but name this year to hear Calhoun tell it at the Middlesex Chamber Breakfast this week...

Fire him at any time. In the meantime, bring the best players to UConn that you possibly can!

 

[Pudge]

Interim does nothing for US. I hope it means that his few months gives Warde Manual a basis to give him a real contract so that he can set a team in the Spring signing period. I agree with Fishy when he said this is 50/50. Ollie has a shot ... but a tough one.

SEE ARKANSAS football for evidence of what not to do.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Bunk. Calhoun went from the greatest coach ever in 2011 to coaching a fiasco last year.
You also seem to forget he busted his hip.

In any endeavour, you want to give yourself every chance to succeed. Half-arsing it is going to yield half-arsed results.

He's been wavering on retirement every year. I don't forget he busted his hip. I also don't forget that his effort to pick a successor was rebuffed.

I agree you give yourself a chance to succeed. I don't think the 1 year contract hurts Ollie's chance to succeed in the slightest. People are hired provisionally all the time. It is extremely common. It is also a very effective way to handle the hiring of unproven people like Kevin Ollie. There is nothing more "half-arsed" than giving a long term contract to a coach who has never coached, especially when the public is paying the bills.

In any event, how does it affect KO's status? The 2013-14 recruits aren't playing this year. JC's recruits are. Kevin will have an extension or we'll all know he's not ready before the season ends. The recruits he does or doesn't land won't affect that. That's not what the administration is looking at. WM said so very clearly.

 

[Nostical]

HuskyHawk: There is nothing more "half-arsed" than giving a long term contract to a coach who has never coached, especially when the public is paying the bills.

Well said and absolutely correct. And truth be told, despite all of the back and forth on the issue of a one year deal, there's no-one on this board who, if they were AD under the same time constraints of the late Calhoun retirement announcement, would have signed KO long term. Not with Susan Herbst in charge.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Interim does nothing for US. I hope it means that his few months gives Warde Manual a basis to give him a real contract so that he can set a team in the Spring signing period. I agree with Fishy when he said this is 50/50. Ollie has a shot ... but a tough one.

SEE ARKANSAS football for evidence of what not to do.

I'm still pretty much convinced that the one year contract is merely a means to once all is said and done give the appearance that WM (and SH) made the decision on JC's successor, not JC.

There could be many things transpiring over the next few years where WM has to be able to present himself as the guy who runs the athletic department, not a puppet who lets long time, successful coaches dictate all terms. Even if WM believed fully that KO was the best candidate, the way that things happened there was no way he could have convinced anyone that it was anything beyond him following JC's orders. This was a necessary step.

 

[Pudge]

HuskyHawk: There is nothing more "half-arsed" than giving a long term contract to a coach who has never coached, especially when the public is paying the bills.

Well said and absolutely correct. And truth be told, despite all of the back and forth on the issue of a one year deal, there's no-one on this board who, if they were AD under the same time constraints of the late Calhoun retirement announcement, would have signed KO long term. Not with Susan Herbst in charge.

Let me point to these:
Tom Izzo at Michigan State
Fred Hoiberg at Iowa State

And Susan Herbst was Provost when UAlbany elevated Will Brown to Head Coach in murky circumstances. So ... Pulling the Herbst card doesn't work.

I think Kevin Ollie, in hoop circles, is considered a star. He may not be the first choice for an elite Program; but, he's got that something that gives you pause. The first 10 games, IMHO, will tell you a lot.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Let me point to these:
Tom Izzo at Michigan State
Fred Hoiberg at Iowa State

And Susan Herbst was Provost when UAlbany elevated Will Brown to Head Coach in murky circumstances. So ... Pulling the Herbst card doesn't work.

I think Kevin Ollie, in hoop circles, is considered a star. He may not be the first choice for an elite Program; but, he's got that something that gives you pause. The first 10 games, IMHO, will tell you a lot.

There were some success stories in baseball too this year. Hell, I hope the Red Sox interview Bill Mueller, who has never managed.

Look, I'm not criticizing giving KO a shot. But I wouldn't give any coach a long term contract under these circumstances. A long term contract requires a search and interview process or demonstrated success under a short term contract.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I'm honestly just stunned at some of the responses here. Take off the Husky colored glasses for a second.

Kevin Ollie hasn't coached a game of competitive basketball in his life. Period.

That is a huge risk. It doesn't mean he'll be a failure, it doesn't mean someone with experience will be a success. All it means is that hiring a guy with zero experience to a Top 10 basketball school in America is a monumental risk and with the transition the Big East is going through it makes it even more important we maintain our stature.

I'm 100% in Ollie's camp. But I'm not blind to the fact that this could turn out horribly wrong and has way more of a chance to do so than hiring a guy who has run a big time hoops program before.

 

[upstater]

He's been wavering on retirement every year. I don't forget he busted his hip. I also don't forget that his effort to pick a successor was rebuffed.

I agree you give yourself a chance to succeed. I don't think the 1 year contract hurts Ollie's chance to succeed in the slightest. People are hired provisionally all the time. It is extremely common. It is also a very effective way to handle the hiring of unproven people like Kevin Ollie. There is nothing more "half-arsed" than giving a long term contract to a coach who has never coached, especially when the public is paying the bills.

In any event, how does it affect KO's status? The 2013-14 recruits aren't playing this year. JC's recruits are. Kevin will have an extension or we'll all know he's not ready before the season ends. The recruits he does or doesn't land won't affect that. That's not what the administration is looking at. WM said so very clearly.

It's not common. Give one single example please.

I've never heard a coach hired provisionally before.

It impacts his chance of success in the future. What are you honestly expecting from this season anyway?

 

[upstater]

There were some success stories in baseball too this year. Hell, I hope the Red Sox interview Bill Mueller, who has never managed.

Look, I'm not criticizing giving KO a shot. But I wouldn't give any coach a long term contract under these circumstances. A long term contract requires a search and interview process or demonstrated success under a short term contract.

I've never heard of such requirements. What did Pastner get? Donovan at Florida? Besides, you can easily fire a coach. What is so difficult to understand about that?

 

[upstater]

Why give him a long term contract for recruiting purposes when they don't even know if he can coach? though I'm not even sure he will be the coach in anything but name this year to hear Calhoun tell it at the Middlesex Chamber Breakfast this week...

You really have to ask this question? Why try as hard as you can to get the best recruits you possibly can? You sound like Gary Williams.

 

[upstater]

I'm honestly just stunned at some of the responses here. Take off the Husky colored glasses for a second.

Kevin Ollie hasn't coached a game of competitive basketball in his life. Period.

That is a huge risk. It doesn't mean he'll be a failure, it doesn't mean someone with experience will be a success. All it means is that hiring a guy with zero experience to a Top 10 basketball school in America is a monumental risk and with the transition the Big East is going through it makes it even more important we maintain our stature.

I'm 100% in Ollie's camp. But I'm not blind to the fact that this could turn out horribly wrong and has way more of a chance to do so than hiring a guy who has run a big time hoops program before.

Big time hoops?

Just who do you think is coming to UConn anyway?

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Big time hoops?

Just who do you think is coming to UConn anyway?

Obviously 'big-time' is open to interpretation, but to qualify it, I'll say a Coach who has had multiple trips to March Madness and has won a few games there recently.

It's tough to say who would and wouldn't be available, but I'm sure there has to be some coaches out there that would relish the opportunity to take the UConn job.

And once again, my point all along has just been that I'm ok with Ollie - for now - but I just wish people realized how incredibly risky of a hire he is compared to someone battle tested in March Madness.

 

[Husky68]

Never was a head coach, but has coached and for the team that promoted him and recommended by the guy who was his boss. This is not taking Rip Hamilton and making him the coach. This is a guy who decided to go into college coaching a few years ago, got to coach an NCAA championship team and a pretty much under achieving bunch. Saw what one good leader on team could do and what a lot of miss fitting parts can lead to.

Don't see this as a big risk at all with other coaches remaining. Expect that a lot of the running of practice was on Ollie and the rest and they haven't gone anywhere.

New coach with new assistants, no Uconn ties, probably at least as much of a risk given the timing and who would take it so late.

Not sure I see coaching at college level as soooooooo hard. Some were/are really good at it (Wooden, Knight, RatFace) but really is Calimari that good, or UNC or Kansas or Texas or Syracuse coaches vs. getting very good talent? Getting Butler to 2 final games is good coaching, Smart is good, lot of other guys get more or less as far as their team talent takes them. UCLA coach didn't look so good when all his talent left early for the NBA after some nice runs in the NCAA's. Got to have the horses.

How many games did we win 'cause of our great offensive or defensive game plans and execution in 2010 vs 'cause we had Kemba and you didn't (maybe some re defense but offense was definitel "Kemba please save us")?

 

[upstater]

Obviously 'big-time' is open to interpretation, but to qualify it, I'll say a Coach who has had multiple trips to March Madness and has won a few games there recently.

It's tough to say who would and wouldn't be available, but I'm sure there has to be some coaches out there that would relish the opportunity to take the UConn job.

And once again, my point all along has just been that I'm ok with Ollie - for now - but I just wish people realized how incredibly risky of a hire he is compared to someone battle tested in March Madness.

You gotta shoot for the stars. The list of coaches that have won a few games in March Madness and then flamed out is as long as Nile. Even Karl Hobbs had his team ranked #5 in the country late in the season. Ollie could be a home run here, a coach for whom many future NBAers come to play. No one can say that about Shaka Smart.

Are people put off by this guy's diction, I wonder? There have been 3 or 4 diction threads on the Boneyard and each time several posters make it known how much it bugs them.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I've never heard of such requirements. What did Pastner get? Donovan at Florida? Besides, you can easily fire a coach. What is so difficult to understand about that?

Did they get interviews? We're they forced on those schools? Did the schools have an opportunity to hire someone else? You cannot compare Ollie to someone who was actually chosen for the job. He wasn't. He got the job by default because he was the only option. He is getting a great opportunity.

 

[upstater]

Did they get interviews? We're they forced on those schools? Did the schools have an opportunity to hire someone else? You cannot compare Ollie to someone who was actually chosen for the job. He wasn't. He got the job by default because he was the only option. He is getting a great opportunity.

I was responding to your earlier post. I simply want to know examples. Do you have any?

As for open searches, have you been paying attention to how some of these are run? They hire consultants who hand pluck people. UConn ended up with Pasqualoni last time. and yeah, why did Florida hire Donovan? Why do you think? He was the best candidate? Based on what? 2 years of nothing at Marshall? I don't put much stock in that.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

You gotta shoot for the stars. The list of coaches that have won a few games in March Madness and then flamed out is as long as Nile. Even Karl Hobbs had his team ranked #5 in the country late in the season. Ollie could be a home run here, a coach for whom many future NBAers come to play. No one can say that about Shaka Smart.

Are people put off by this guy's diction, I wonder? There have been 3 or 4 diction threads on the Boneyard and each time several posters make it known how much it bugs them.

Where is the list of coaches with absolutely no experience taking over elite programs?

Ollie could be a home run here, but you can't say the same about Shaka Smart? Uhh why?

 

[upstater]

Where is the list of coaches with absolutely no experience taking over elite programs?

Ollie could be a home run here, but you can't say the same about Shaka Smart? Uhh why?

NBA experience, connections w/ LeBron and others, Larry Brown, backing of Calhoun, all the UConn NBA and school alumni.

Absolutely no experience? For heaven's sake, what are you talking about?

 

[ConnHuskBask]

NBA experience, connections w/ LeBron and others, Larry Brown, backing of Calhoun, all the UConn NBA and school alumni.

Absolutely no experience? For heaven's sake, what are you talking about?

What are you talking about? He got hired to be the head coach of an elite Division 1 basketball program. He has 0 games career in being a division 1 basketball coach.

To sit here and say he's less risky than a Shaka Smart, who has proven he can Coach a team to a Final 4 is lunacy. Take off the Husky colored glasses for a second and realize what you're saying.

A lot of you guys think anyone can just stand on the sidelines and roll the ball and be good. Who knows if he'll be good? Nobody. That's kind of my whole point for christ sake.

Give me the proven commodity over the complete unknown everyday of the week.