Warde Manual ... this ain't UBuffalo

[whaler11]

Not that it has anything to do with this - but how has Howie not been good at Central?

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Honestly, if KO can recruit like a mofo, I am perfectly comfortable with Hobbs and Miller doing most of the coaching. They are completely capable of winning big with thoroughbreds. I think KO will prove to be a great hire, but we have the staff to teach him coaching if need be. Just get the horses KO!!!

Frankly I would be shocked if someone who played PG for Larry Brown does not already have an exceptional foundation to build a coaching career on.

 

[freescooter]

"If Manuel called, all but maybe 5 (you can name the five) would have at least been willing to listen. Instead we gave it to a ghost."

I simply don't believe this. At best ... we would hire a Fran Dunphy-type. Someone who could maintain some hold on our past. Ollie, I believe, is a wildcard. And ... frankly ... we are facing a very challenging year. Let's just see.

I know. We're just little old UConn. Just in the Big East because Holy Cross didn't return Gavitt's call...Just because Hathaway hired a Fran Dunphy-like football coach, I'm not sure you can assume that's what Manuel would do with the basketball job. Jeez. Pudge,UConn doesn't play in the fieldhouse anymore. We don't have rhode Island and UMass as our big games any more. UConn has 3 national Championships. Got more guys in the NBA than almost any other program. Building a freakin' Taj Mahal for practice..Carried th eBig East for more than a decade while it was trying to bridge the gap between Georgetown Villanova St Johns and the new version. .And you think the only guys who would have been interested are Fran Dunphy types (who by the bye has done a nice job rebuilding Temple).

In a sense I think that response though is reflective of what someone on another thread said about people who are accepting of the new Big East...they really don't see UConn as what it has become. They and sadly I put you in that catagorey really don't get that UConn is a major national program, maybe not quite a blueblood, but only a half a step below. I fyou don't have a higher view of UConn than that we'd get Fran Dunphy, I really don't know what to say. But it explains some of your other views.

 

[Nostical]

Pudge, not sure why you would think Ollie's verbal presentation would be tainting our expectations, but nevertheless, I would be thrilled if he were a wunderkind who brought us more national glory. The problem is it's not that easy to be a great head coach. Just because you played great defense (Perno), recruited well (Moore), strategized well on game day for the HC (Dickenman), and thought you had the chops to coach at big programs (Hobbs and Leitao)---or played in the NBA (too many to name), the reality is that too often it just doesn't work out quite as expected. Is KO different? Who knows, but if I'm Herbst and, as freescooter says I've just built the Taj Mahal for practice, I'm not handing over the keys to the Lamborghini (to mix metaphors) just because the guy went to a Joey Chitwood school and shows some promise on icy hairpin turns. I'd rather hire Jimmie Johnson to drive the car. And, I contend, so do Manuel and Herbst.

 

[Pudge]

OK ... if Kevin Ollie was Fred Hoiberg ... would you feel the same way?

I generally am picking up that is what is bugging some around here. And, imho, Kevin Ollie is more prepared than Hoiberg. WHO BEAT US IN MARCH. Hoiberg, btw, had less Coaching experience in college than Ollie now has. And, Ollie has a ton of credible contacts that Hoiberg would not have had at the start.

YES ... Fran Dunphy. That is my poster child for what we'd have ended up with after a search. I'd be thrilled by Beilein ... but Manual ain't stealing from the Wolverines. My expectation is that we'd get nibbles; but like the Arizona job ... lots walked by before Sean Miller moved 4000 miles for it. Would we be happy with the Xavier coach? Most would not be around here.

 

[Pudge]

I know. We're just little old UConn. Just in the Big East because Holy Cross didn't return Gavitt's call...Just because Hathaway hired a Fran Dunphy-like football coach, I'm not sure you can assume that's what Manuel would do with the basketball job. Jeez. Pudge,UConn doesn't play in the fieldhouse anymore. We don't have rhode Island and UMass as our big games any more. UConn has 3 national Championships. Got more guys in the NBA than almost any other program. Building a freakin' Taj Mahal for practice..Carried th eBig East for more than a decade while it was trying to bridge the gap between Georgetown Villanova St Johns and the new version. .And you think the only guys who would have been interested are Fran Dunphy types (who by the bye has done a nice job rebuilding Temple).

In a sense I think that response though is reflective of what someone on another thread said about people who are accepting of the new Big East...they really don't see UConn as what it has become. They and sadly I put you in that catagorey really don't get that UConn is a major national program, maybe not quite a blueblood, but only a half a step below. I fyou don't have a higher view of UConn than that we'd get Fran Dunphy, I really don't know what to say. But it explains some of your other views.

Actually I am examining your views.

And I know Dunphy has done a solid job. So will Turgeon. Sean Miller. Even Mark Gottfried. See where I am going ...

There is NO John Calipari, Tom Izzo, Tom Crean, Billy Donovan on that list. Shaka Smart might be the lastest hot name. But ... I guarantee you that none of them on our second tier is 100%er to succeed here. I get that you aren't sold on Ollie. But ... we took a fairly riskless One year try. Will recruting be hurt? Should be. Yes. He should have a tough time convincing a great kid to come with his tenuous status. But, I really think we are getting the sense that Ollie has some special attributes in recruiting.

 

[whaler11]

OK ... if Kevin Ollie was Fred Hoiberg ... would you feel the same way?

I generally am picking up that is what is bugging some around here. And, imho, Kevin Ollie is more prepared than Hoiberg. WHO BEAT US IN MARCH. Hoiberg, btw, had less Coaching experience in college than Ollie now has. And, Ollie has a ton of credible contacts that Hoiberg would not have had at the start.

YES ... Fran Dunphy. That is my poster child for what we'd have ended up with after a search. I'd be thrilled by Beilein ... but Manual ain't stealing from the Wolverines. My expectation is that we'd get nibbles; but like the Arizona job ... lots walked by before Sean Miller moved 4000 miles for it. Would we be happy with the Xavier coach? Most would not be around here.

Way to beat around the bush. Are you implying that there are people who would be more comfortable with Ollie if he were white?

You can't compare hiring coaches without experience at UConn versus Iowa State. One has everything to lose, one has nothing to lose. Hopefully you can at least identify which is which.

 

[Nostical]

You can't compare hiring coaches without experience at UConn versus Iowa State. One has everything to lose, one has nothing to lose. Hopefully you can at least identify which is which.

Well said and right on point.

 

[ZooCougar]

In The Pudge's universe, Iowa State is a better program than us.

 

[freescooter]

In The Pudge's universe, Iowa State is a better program than us.

That's my point. My concern is that Ollie is in a very tricky spot because if it turns out that his selection was more to sooth Calhoun's ego than on his readiness to be the head coach, given the conference situation, in 5 years, Pudge might be right.

 

[uconnfan68]

That's my point. My concern is that Ollie is in a very tricky spot because if it turns out that his selection was more to sooth Calhoun's ego than on his readiness to be the head coach, given the conference situation, in 5 years, Pudge might be right.

He is in a tricky spot. But it isn't anything that he hasn't overcome with hard work before. He has the rest of the same staff JC did. (who have around 800 wins). They won't let him fail.

 

[Pudge]

Way to beat around the bush. Are you implying that there are people who would be more comfortable with Ollie if he were white?

You can't compare hiring coaches without experience at UConn versus Iowa State. One has everything to lose, one has nothing to lose. Hopefully you can at least identify which is which.

Read some of the posts immediately after the presser. Yesss.

And us versus Iowa St? Easy ... We're clearly not locked into Kevin. I expect he'll do great. I expect Manual might knowc a lot in the first 90 days ... I hope so.

 

[Fishy]

Ollie was chosen because Calhoun retired in September.

If he retired in April, Ollie isn't here anymore. And that's not because Manuel or Herbst bear him any ill will, it's only because there are better candidates out there for a school like UConn than a youngish guy with no track record as a head coach. What would have made him a home run for, say, Albany or Marist or Central doesn't necessarily make him such for UConn - UConn swims in a bigger pond.

I think he's probably 50/50 to win the permanent job. He's gotten the two current verbals to stay on, at least for now. He's poked his nose in the door on Parker, etc. The season probably will not go all that smoothly, but that is far from his fault. The powers that be will also have to balance the fact that this may not be the job it was two years ago - instead of Big Monday against Pitt on ESPN, we may be selling Teeny Tuesday on channel 843 and road trips to Assbuckle, Texas.

We'll see how it goes and reassess next spring. I hope he retires from UConn in 20 years, but if there is a better fit for us come spring time, so be it.

 

[Pudge]

UConn would give Kevin Ollie a solid contract if he came through the way Fred Hoiberg has at Iowa State ... in his short tenure.

There is NO guarantee on Kevin Ollie NOR on hiring the latest Hot guy. Kansas got lucky ... in my view ... with Bill Self; IU & Kelvin Sampson SHOULDA had the same fate ... damn.

 

[Danzz]

That's my point. My concern is that Ollie is in a very tricky spot because if it turns out that his selection was more to sooth Calhoun's ego than on his readiness to be the head coach, given the conference situation, in 5 years, Pudge might be right.

Giving Ollie or any HC a 1 year contract is a bad move without clear goals and expectations. We will probably be picked somewhere around 10th in the BE. Does this mean if we finish 9th or better Ollie should get a contract extension?If we finish lower does it mean Ollie gets canned?
My feeling is if you hire a coach you have to give him a fair shot and 1 season is way too small of a sample. 3 years with 2 years guaranteed makes a lot more sense.
It is likely that Manual wanted to open up the HC coach search keeping Ollie on the list but exploring other candidates. Calhoun and Herbst may have wanted Ollie and the 1 year contract was a compromise. The worst thing Uconn could do after next season is give Ollie a 1 year contract extension. They either have to back their hire or get somebody else. Playing it half way makes no sense at all.

 

[UConniki]

Giving Ollie or any HC a 1 year contract is a bad move without clear goals and expectations. We will probably be picked somewhere around 10th in the BE. Does this mean if we finish 9th or better Ollie should get a contract extension?If we finish lower does it mean Ollie gets canned?
My feeling is if you hire a coach you have to give him a fair shot and 1 season is way too small of a sample. 3 years with 2 years guaranteed makes a lot more sense.
It is likely that Manual wanted to open up the HC coach search keeping Ollie on the list but exploring other candidates. Calhoun and Herbst may have wanted Ollie and the 1 year contract was a compromise. The worst thing Uconn could do after next season is give Ollie a 1 year contract extension. They either have to back their hire or get somebody else. Playing it half way makes no sense at all.

They will play it half way.

 

[businesslawyer]

Giving Ollie or any HC a 1 year contract is a bad move without clear goals and expectations. We will probably be picked somewhere around 10th in the BE. Does this mean if we finish 9th or better Ollie should get a contract extension?If we finish lower does it mean Ollie gets canned?
My feeling is if you hire a coach you have to give him a fair shot and 1 season is way too small of a sample. 3 years with 2 years guaranteed makes a lot more sense.
It is likely that Manual wanted to open up the HC coach search keeping Ollie on the list but exploring other candidates. Calhoun and Herbst may have wanted Ollie and the 1 year contract was a compromise. The worst thing Uconn could do after next season is give Ollie a 1 year contract extension. They either have to back their hire or get somebody else. Playing it half way makes no sense at all.

We will at least explore getting a major name in after this season. But after this season, we will commit to KO or he will be gone.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

That's my point. My concern is that Ollie is in a very tricky spot because if it turns out that his selection was more to sooth Calhoun's ego than on his readiness to be the head coach, given the conference situation, in 5 years, Pudge might be right.

Question for you Scooter and please explain why, in detail your answer was yes or no:

When Kansas brought in Roy Williams (who coincidentally took over during a season with a postseason ban and recruiting restrictions) was that a good hire or bad hire by them?

 

[freescooter]

Question for you Scooter and please explain why, in detail your answer was yes or no:

When Kansas brought in Roy Williams (who coincidentally took over during a season with a postseason ban and recruiting restrictions) was that a good hire or bad hire by them?

Clearly it was a good hire. Went to 3 final 4s in his term and 2 national championship games. I think he brought teams to the NCAA Tournament every year except the 1 when they were banned. If not every one, very close. And won 80% of its games and a bunch of Big 8/12 championships. But let's remember that Williams had 10 years experience as an assistant to Dean Smith. Not two. I'm not sure what your point is here. A guy who had 10 years as an assistant to one of the top coaches in the game at one of the top programs gets hired to coach another top program. As opposed ot a guy who has 2 years as an assistant to a guy who quits 3 weeks before practice begins and threatens to hold his nose until he turns blue if his guy doesn't get picked...great coach, but as Fishy noted, Ollie is an assistant for Oklahoma City or somewhere if Calhoun had retired in April. Look, I truly hope that Ollie has a career comparable to Roy Williams. That would be terrific. I doubt he's ready though.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Clearly it was a good hire. Went to 3 final 4s in his term and 2 national championship games. I think he brought teams to the NCAA Tournament every year except the 1 when they were banned. If not every one, very close. And won 80% of its games and a bunch of Big 8/12 championships. But let's remember that Williams had 10 years experience as an assistant to Dean Smith. Not two. I'm not sure what your point is here. A guy who had 10 years as an assistant to one of the top coaches in the game at one of the top programs gets hired to coach another top program. As opposed ot a guy who has 2 years as an assistant to a guy who quits 3 weeks before practice begins and threatens to hold his nose until he turns blue if his guy doesn't get picked...great coach, but as Fishy noted, Ollie is an assistant for Oklahoma City or somewhere if Calhoun had retired in April. Look, I truly hope that Ollie has a career comparable to Roy Williams. That would be terrific. I doubt he's ready though.

So if KO's accomplishments after fifteen years are an outstanding regular season record, a good number of conference tournament championships, a few final fours but no national titles, compounded by a few early flameouts in seasons where the team was viewed by many as the best in the country you would view his hire as a good one?

I hope you are being completely honest here but I still have a feeling that your stance would be that he couldn't win the big one and we would have fared better if we hired someone from the outside.

My point is that I believe that if KO's tenure at UConn end up being identical RW's tenure at Kansas (save the departure after a national title loss) you will gripe that we should have hired a proven coach instead of promoting KO when JC retired.

 

[freescooter]

FCF, To me the question is really how long are you willing to wait? Roy Williams Kansas team won 19 games the year he wasn't able to go to the tournament. The next year he won 30 and his 3rd year he went to the NCAA Finals. I'd sign for that right now. I can imagine a scenario where Kevin Ollie is a terrific coach 10 years from now, in his 2nd stint as Head coach after flaming out at UConn. I just truly have serious doubts that he has the experience coaching a team that you need to take over a big time program like UConn. And Unlike Pudge, I think UConn is a big time program. We're not looking for the coach at Fairfield, or even Iowa State. this is a program that competes head to head with Kansas, Duke, North Carolina et al, and has left the like of Villanova and Georgetown and even Syracuse in its rear view mirror...

Here's the thing though, Williams in 15 years went to 14 NCAA tournaments, never lsot a first round game, and had his season end in 2 Championship games, 1 additional final four, 1 Elite 8, 4 Sweet 16s, and 4 2nd rounds. Averaged 27 wins a year. Other than his first year, when kansas was banned form the post season, his WORST season he won 23 games. So it wasn't like he struggled for 3 or 4 years before he started winning. He won and won big from Day 1. If Ollie does that, I'm the first to say he was a terrific coach. My worry is 15-15 this year, 17-14 next year, 20-12, 18-15...when do you cut your losses? And nobody wants to answer that one!

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Scoot,

I also view UConn as a bigtime program but where you and I differ on this is in what a) KO brings to the table and b) the existing support structure in place. Having Miller and Hobbs on the bench with him will more than make up for any shortcomings he may have in terms of years of coaching development specified to sitting on a bench with a suit and tie on.

I personally believe that there really weren't a lot of names available to us unless we would be willing and able to pay JC's successor more than we were paying JC (I doubt that we would either have been willing or able to do this). The most logical candiate then would have been Shaka smart and in all candor, I don't see anything that Shaka can do that KO isn't already capable of. I also believe that his many years as an NBA point guard (including a few for Larry Brown, which I will elaborate on later if necessary) and the leadership roles (as well as locker room presence and coach on the floor) that he assumed over the last decade of his NBA career were every bit as valuable in coaching development as similar time spent as director of ops, third asistant, second assistant (which would have been his career path if he did begin his collegiate coaching career a decade ago).

It sounds to me as if you are more concerned with hype and glitter (which is what hiring a known name heaad coach would bring) than anything else and it appears that with KO you are assuming failure until proven wrong while with someone else (Smart, Miller, etc.) you would be assuming success until proven wrong. You are entitled to this belief (as I am entitled to mine) and I will quickly state that I was wrong if the day arrives when I need to (I do hope, for the sake of the program and no other reason) that the day never arrives. I just think that you are discounting too many things about KO's path to where he is right now that have been legitimate coaching development.

 

[freescooter]

FCF, we clearly disagree. But now answer my question. How long are you willing to wait for Ollie to produce? I'll even say as long as he finishes a game over .500 this year, he'll be extended. But keeping in mind that Williams won 30 games his second year, how many years are you willing to give Ollie before: A. He gets to the NCAA tournament; and B: His team makes a deep run?

 

[freescooter]

By the way, I think we would have been both willing and able to pay for a major coach if UConn had determined to go that way. As for Shaka Smart, I've seen him coach a mid-major to the final four and follow it up with an upset win over the #5 seed the following year. to say nothing of the fact that his team has won 27, 28 and 29 games in his 3 year head coaching career. And in his first year won the CBI. Yeah it was only the CBI, but they won it. I've seen Kevin Ollie hold Calhoun's clipboard...

 

[uconnfan68]

FCF, To me the question is really how long are you willing to wait? Roy Williams Kansas team won 19 games the year he wasn't able to go to the tournament. The next year he won 30 and his 3rd year he went to the NCAA Finals. I'd sign for that right now. I can imagine a scenario where Kevin Ollie is a terrific coach 10 years from now, in his 2nd stint as Head coach after flaming out at UConn. I just truly have serious doubts that he has the experience coaching a team that you need to take over a big time program like UConn. And Unlike Pudge, I think UConn is a big time program. We're not looking for the coach at Fairfield, or even Iowa State. this is a program that competes head to head with Kansas, Duke, North Carolina et al, and has left the like of Villanova and Georgetown and even Syracuse in its rear view mirror...

Here's the thing though, Williams in 15 years went to 14 NCAA tournaments, never lsot a first round game, and had his season end in 2 Championship games, 1 additional final four, 1 Elite 8, 4 Sweet 16s, and 4 2nd rounds. Averaged 27 wins a year. Other than his first year, when kansas was banned form the post season, his WORST season he won 23 games. So it wasn't like he struggled for 3 or 4 years before he started winning. He won and won big from Day 1. If Ollie does that, I'm the first to say he was a terrific coach. My worry is 15-15 this year, 17-14 next year, 20-12, 18-15...when do you cut your losses? And nobody wants to answer that one!

We're not as cunning as Big12 schools. They need to be able to compete with the UTs and OUs of the world. How else do you sell living in Kansas for a few years?