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Warde Manual ... this ain't UBuffalo

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HuskyHawk: There is nothing more "half-arsed" than giving a long term contract to a coach who has never coached, especially when the public is paying the bills.

Well said and absolutely correct. And truth be told, despite all of the back and forth on the issue of a one year deal, there's no-one on this board who, if they were AD under the same time constraints of the late Calhoun retirement announcement, would have signed KO long term. Not with Susan Herbst in charge.

Let me point to these:
Tom Izzo at Michigan State
Fred Hoiberg at Iowa State

And Susan Herbst was Provost when UAlbany elevated Will Brown to Head Coach in murky circumstances. So ... Pulling the Herbst card doesn't work.

I think Kevin Ollie, in hoop circles, is considered a star. He may not be the first choice for an elite Program; but, he's got that something that gives you pause. The first 10 games, IMHO, will tell you a lot.
 
Let me point to these:
Tom Izzo at Michigan State
Fred Hoiberg at Iowa State

And Susan Herbst was Provost when UAlbany elevated Will Brown to Head Coach in murky circumstances. So ... Pulling the Herbst card doesn't work.

I think Kevin Ollie, in hoop circles, is considered a star. He may not be the first choice for an elite Program; but, he's got that something that gives you pause. The first 10 games, IMHO, will tell you a lot.

There were some success stories in baseball too this year. Hell, I hope the Red Sox interview Bill Mueller, who has never managed.

Look, I'm not criticizing giving KO a shot. But I wouldn't give any coach a long term contract under these circumstances. A long term contract requires a search and interview process or demonstrated success under a short term contract.
 
I'm honestly just stunned at some of the responses here. Take off the Husky colored glasses for a second.

Kevin Ollie hasn't coached a game of competitive basketball in his life. Period.

That is a huge risk. It doesn't mean he'll be a failure, it doesn't mean someone with experience will be a success. All it means is that hiring a guy with zero experience to a Top 10 basketball school in America is a monumental risk and with the transition the Big East is going through it makes it even more important we maintain our stature.

I'm 100% in Ollie's camp. But I'm not blind to the fact that this could turn out horribly wrong and has way more of a chance to do so than hiring a guy who has run a big time hoops program before.
 
He's been wavering on retirement every year. I don't forget he busted his hip. I also don't forget that his effort to pick a successor was rebuffed.

I agree you give yourself a chance to succeed. I don't think the 1 year contract hurts Ollie's chance to succeed in the slightest. People are hired provisionally all the time. It is extremely common. It is also a very effective way to handle the hiring of unproven people like Kevin Ollie. There is nothing more "half-arsed" than giving a long term contract to a coach who has never coached, especially when the public is paying the bills.

In any event, how does it affect KO's status? The 2013-14 recruits aren't playing this year. JC's recruits are. Kevin will have an extension or we'll all know he's not ready before the season ends. The recruits he does or doesn't land won't affect that. That's not what the administration is looking at. WM said so very clearly.

It's not common. Give one single example please.

I've never heard a coach hired provisionally before.

It impacts his chance of success in the future. What are you honestly expecting from this season anyway?
 
There were some success stories in baseball too this year. Hell, I hope the Red Sox interview Bill Mueller, who has never managed.

Look, I'm not criticizing giving KO a shot. But I wouldn't give any coach a long term contract under these circumstances. A long term contract requires a search and interview process or demonstrated success under a short term contract.

I've never heard of such requirements. What did Pastner get? Donovan at Florida? Besides, you can easily fire a coach. What is so difficult to understand about that?
 
Why give him a long term contract for recruiting purposes when they don't even know if he can coach? though I'm not even sure he will be the coach in anything but name this year to hear Calhoun tell it at the Middlesex Chamber Breakfast this week...

You really have to ask this question? Why try as hard as you can to get the best recruits you possibly can? You sound like Gary Williams.
 
I'm honestly just stunned at some of the responses here. Take off the Husky colored glasses for a second.

Kevin Ollie hasn't coached a game of competitive basketball in his life. Period.

That is a huge risk. It doesn't mean he'll be a failure, it doesn't mean someone with experience will be a success. All it means is that hiring a guy with zero experience to a Top 10 basketball school in America is a monumental risk and with the transition the Big East is going through it makes it even more important we maintain our stature.

I'm 100% in Ollie's camp. But I'm not blind to the fact that this could turn out horribly wrong and has way more of a chance to do so than hiring a guy who has run a big time hoops program before.

Big time hoops?

Just who do you think is coming to UConn anyway?
 
Big time hoops?

Just who do you think is coming to UConn anyway?

Obviously 'big-time' is open to interpretation, but to qualify it, I'll say a Coach who has had multiple trips to March Madness and has won a few games there recently.

It's tough to say who would and wouldn't be available, but I'm sure there has to be some coaches out there that would relish the opportunity to take the UConn job.

And once again, my point all along has just been that I'm ok with Ollie - for now - but I just wish people realized how incredibly risky of a hire he is compared to someone battle tested in March Madness.
 
Never was a head coach, but has coached and for the team that promoted him and recommended by the guy who was his boss. This is not taking Rip Hamilton and making him the coach. This is a guy who decided to go into college coaching a few years ago, got to coach an NCAA championship team and a pretty much under achieving bunch. Saw what one good leader on team could do and what a lot of miss fitting parts can lead to.

Don't see this as a big risk at all with other coaches remaining. Expect that a lot of the running of practice was on Ollie and the rest and they haven't gone anywhere.

New coach with new assistants, no Uconn ties, probably at least as much of a risk given the timing and who would take it so late.

Not sure I see coaching at college level as soooooooo hard. Some were/are really good at it (Wooden, Knight, RatFace) but really is Calimari that good, or UNC or Kansas or Texas or Syracuse coaches vs. getting very good talent? Getting Butler to 2 final games is good coaching, Smart is good, lot of other guys get more or less as far as their team talent takes them. UCLA coach didn't look so good when all his talent left early for the NBA after some nice runs in the NCAA's. Got to have the horses.

How many games did we win 'cause of our great offensive or defensive game plans and execution in 2010 vs 'cause we had Kemba and you didn't (maybe some re defense but offense was definitel "Kemba please save us")?
 
Obviously 'big-time' is open to interpretation, but to qualify it, I'll say a Coach who has had multiple trips to March Madness and has won a few games there recently.

It's tough to say who would and wouldn't be available, but I'm sure there has to be some coaches out there that would relish the opportunity to take the UConn job.

And once again, my point all along has just been that I'm ok with Ollie - for now - but I just wish people realized how incredibly risky of a hire he is compared to someone battle tested in March Madness.

You gotta shoot for the stars. The list of coaches that have won a few games in March Madness and then flamed out is as long as Nile. Even Karl Hobbs had his team ranked #5 in the country late in the season. Ollie could be a home run here, a coach for whom many future NBAers come to play. No one can say that about Shaka Smart.

Are people put off by this guy's diction, I wonder? There have been 3 or 4 diction threads on the Boneyard and each time several posters make it known how much it bugs them.
 
I've never heard of such requirements. What did Pastner get? Donovan at Florida? Besides, you can easily fire a coach. What is so difficult to understand about that?

Did they get interviews? We're they forced on those schools? Did the schools have an opportunity to hire someone else? You cannot compare Ollie to someone who was actually chosen for the job. He wasn't. He got the job by default because he was the only option. He is getting a great opportunity.
 
Did they get interviews? We're they forced on those schools? Did the schools have an opportunity to hire someone else? You cannot compare Ollie to someone who was actually chosen for the job. He wasn't. He got the job by default because he was the only option. He is getting a great opportunity.

I was responding to your earlier post. I simply want to know examples. Do you have any?

As for open searches, have you been paying attention to how some of these are run? They hire consultants who hand pluck people. UConn ended up with Pasqualoni last time. and yeah, why did Florida hire Donovan? Why do you think? He was the best candidate? Based on what? 2 years of nothing at Marshall? I don't put much stock in that.
 
You gotta shoot for the stars. The list of coaches that have won a few games in March Madness and then flamed out is as long as Nile. Even Karl Hobbs had his team ranked #5 in the country late in the season. Ollie could be a home run here, a coach for whom many future NBAers come to play. No one can say that about Shaka Smart.

Are people put off by this guy's diction, I wonder? There have been 3 or 4 diction threads on the Boneyard and each time several posters make it known how much it bugs them.

Where is the list of coaches with absolutely no experience taking over elite programs?

Ollie could be a home run here, but you can't say the same about Shaka Smart? Uhh why?
 
Where is the list of coaches with absolutely no experience taking over elite programs?

Ollie could be a home run here, but you can't say the same about Shaka Smart? Uhh why?

NBA experience, connections w/ LeBron and others, Larry Brown, backing of Calhoun, all the UConn NBA and school alumni.

Absolutely no experience? For heaven's sake, what are you talking about?
 
NBA experience, connections w/ LeBron and others, Larry Brown, backing of Calhoun, all the UConn NBA and school alumni.

Absolutely no experience? For heaven's sake, what are you talking about?

What are you talking about? He got hired to be the head coach of an elite Division 1 basketball program. He has 0 games career in being a division 1 basketball coach.

To sit here and say he's less risky than a Shaka Smart, who has proven he can Coach a team to a Final 4 is lunacy. Take off the Husky colored glasses for a second and realize what you're saying.

A lot of you guys think anyone can just stand on the sidelines and roll the ball and be good. Who knows if he'll be good? Nobody. That's kind of my whole point for christ sake.

Give me the proven commodity over the complete unknown everyday of the week.
 
What are you talking about? He got hired to be the head coach of an elite Division 1 basketball program. He has 0 games career in being a division 1 basketball coach.

To sit here and say he's less risky than a Shaka Smart, who has proven he can Coach a team to a Final 4 is lunacy. Take off the Husky colored glasses for a second and realize what you're saying.

A lot of you guys think anyone can just stand on the sidelines and roll the ball and be good. Who knows if he'll be good? Nobody. That's kind of my whole point for christ sake.

Give me the proven commodity over the complete unknown everyday of the week.

Wow, crazy. Thousands of coaches have been hired without being head coaches. Some of the most accomplished ones did it.

And I didn't say he's less risky. You're making that up. I said he could have more going for him, like all the things I listed. Smrt doesn't have an NBA background, NBA people behind him, nor does he have the history of the UConn program behind him and all that that entails.

That was one nutty post from you.
 
donovan had less of a career on the court than KO. then he was a ast somewhere i forget. then he coached 2 or 3 years at marshall before taking the florida job. thats not much to go on is it? i'll take KO's career and couple years under JC's wing any day over what donovan had on his resume. while KO may have never been a HC, he has guys on his bench who have been, he has JC still around for when hes needed. KO is the next 30 years of my life as far as i'm concerned.
 
Wow, crazy. Thousands of coaches have been hired without being head coaches. Some of the most accomplished ones did it.

And I didn't say he's less risky. You're making that up. I said he could have more going for him, like all the things I listed. Smrt doesn't have an NBA background, NBA people behind him, nor does he have the history of the UConn program behind him and all that that entails.

That was one nutty post from you.

Name some coaches with less total coaching experience than Ollie that have gone on to be successful? He's been an assistant for two seasons. He has 0 years of head coaching experience and only 2 years of assistant coach experience.

Below is your exact quote I referenced when referring Smart and Ollie. Why could Ollie be a home run, but Smart couldn't?

You gotta shoot for the stars. The list of coaches that have won a few games in March Madness and then flamed out is as long as Nile. Even Karl Hobbs had his team ranked #5 in the country late in the season. Ollie could be a home run here, a coach for whom many future NBAers come to play. No one can say that about Shaka Smart.
 
donovan had less of a career on the court than KO. then he was a ast somewhere i forget. then he coached 2 or 3 years at marshall before taking the florida job. thats not much to go on is it? i'll take KO's career and couple years under JC's wing any day over what donovan had on his resume. while KO may have never been a HC, he has guys on his bench who have been, he has JC still around for when hes needed. KO is the next 30 years of my life as far as i'm concerned.

to go a bit more, dont get me wrong i like donovan. him and miller i would sign up for 2moro as hc at uconn. they are the only 2 i wouldnt question right now. any one else i would over giving KO a chance. the problem is those 2 would cost a lot and i dont think uconn would be able to pay them enough to come bak to the northeast to do so. that being what it is, is another reason KO is the right guy. he contract will build up $ wise over years here but it will be a nice $$ saver for uconn till that point, good buy if u will. for the record if u put donovan up at uconn, he would recruit on par with UK, no joke.
 
Name some coaches with less total coaching experience than Ollie that have gone on to be successful? He's been an assistant for two seasons. He has 0 years of head coaching experience and only 2 years of assistant coach experience.

Below is your exact quote I referenced when referring Smart and Ollie. Why could Ollie be a home run, but Smart couldn't?

So, you're going to dismiss his many years of playing basketball just like that? Counts for nothing? Look at Pastner. Billy Donovan has more in common with Ollie than he does with others. Yes, he had more assistant coaching, but not much. his time at Marshall was underwhelming, to say the least. Mike Hopkins is slated to take over at Syracuse. What do you think of that?

My quote shows why Ollie could b a home run, and why Smart doesn't have those notches, so I'm not sure why you're asking about what is self-evident.
 
So, you're going to dismiss his many years of playing basketball just like that? Counts for nothing? Look at Pastner. Billy Donovan has more in common with Ollie than he does with others. Yes, he had more assistant coaching, but not much. his time at Marshall was underwhelming, to say the least. Mike Hopkins is slated to take over at Syracuse. What do you think of that?

My quote shows why Ollie could b a home run, and why Smart doesn't have those notches, so I'm not sure why you're asking about what is self-evident.

Donovan had coached at least one game. Florida was able to see whether he was competent in that capacity. Therefore, he was a guy, like Ollie, with lots of upside. There was also a floor. You saw what he did at Marshall, that was the floor. Ollie has no floor. I agree on the upside. And if they had at least let him sub for Calhoun last year, we could have gotten enough of a look at him to get a sense of his floor. He could be the worst game coach in history. He could be truly and spectacularly awful. I think the odds of that are close to zero. But the reality is, that since he's never coached a single game, not even AAU or high school, nobody knows. It is that "unknown" that necessitates a one year contract. By late winter he'll be known. He'll have a floor. Then the university can decide if the upside is worth the investment given the potential downside. Today that evaluation is impossible or would be answered "no".

Mr. Smart by the way, has loads of upside, and very high floor. A floor much higher than Donovan's was coming from Marshall. He's won big with a mid major with no real budget or fancy practice facility, with no time on TV. I think Mark Few has a really high floor, as he helped build an enduring program at a small school with no advantages.

Now, to your point about searches, yes, sometimes the people conducting the seach look only at the floor. That leads to hires like PP. His floor is his ceiling. There's no upside. That's a bad hire. That's hiring Leitao or Howie D. I love that KO is getting a chance because his upside is so high. Doc Rivers high. But I fully understand why the school had to protect itself, and the taxpayer's money, from a possible costly mistake. If it were a pro team, with a rich owner, well hell, sign him long term and pay him when you fire him. That's irresponsible at a public U.
 
Interim does nothing for US. I hope it means that his few months gives Warde Manual a basis to give him a real contract so that he can set a team in the Spring signing period. I agree with Fishy when he said this is 50/50. Ollie has a shot ... but a tough one.

SEE ARKANSAS football for evidence of what not to do.

I am on the fence as to whether we should hire KO or do a search. But your point is totally consistent with my belief that they intend to do a search, and KO is merely in charge until the search gets done next winter.
 
Donovan had coached at least one game. Florida was able to see whether he was competent in that capacity. Therefore, he was a guy, like Ollie, with lots of upside. There was also a floor. You saw what he did at Marshall, that was the floor. Ollie has no floor. I agree on the upside. And if they had at least let him sub for Calhoun last year, we could have gotten enough of a look at him to get a sense of his floor. He could be the worst game coach in history. He could be truly and spectacularly awful. I think the odds of that are close to zero. But the reality is, that since he's never coached a single game, not even AAU or high school, nobody knows. It is that "unknown" that necessitates a one year contract. By late winter he'll be known. He'll have a floor. Then the university can decide if the upside is worth the investment given the potential downside. Today that evaluation is impossible or would be answered "no".

Mr. Smart by the way, has loads of upside, and very high floor. A floor much higher than Donovan's was coming from Marshall. He's won big with a mid major with no real budget or fancy practice facility, with no time on TV. I think Mark Few has a really high floor, as he helped build an enduring program at a small school with no advantages.

Now, to your point about searches, yes, sometimes the people conducting the seach look only at the floor. That leads to hires like PP. His floor is his ceiling. There's no upside. That's a bad hire. That's hiring Leitao or Howie D. I love that KO is getting a chance because his upside is so high. Doc Rivers high. But I fully understand why the school had to protect itself, and the taxpayer's money, from a possible costly mistake. If it were a pro team, with a rich owner, well hell, sign him long term and pay him when you fire him. That's irresponsible at a public U.

One, you can't judge how Donovan would do based on Marshall. I mean, Hobbs did better than Donovan in his stint in mid-major-dom.

Two, Ollie could flop. Then you could fire him. Whether he has one year or three years, it makes no difference. What's the point in allowing him to recruit with one hand behind his back? Don't get it.

What are we talking about here anyway? $300 x 3 = $900k - $300k for this year = $600k. UConn is risking everything over $600k? Really? With this much at stake?

Smart does not have the upside you think he does.

I mean, suddenly everyone is concerned about taxpayer's money. Where has all this concern been in the past? Where was it with football?
 
I am on the fence as to whether we should hire KO or do a search. But your point is totally consistent with my belief that they intend to do a search, and KO is merely in charge until the search gets done next winter.

I only wonder, how can you possibly conduct a search when:

1. Your interim coach is still recruiting for the school (I assume Ollie will be allowed to recruit during the search)

and...

2. Will Ollie be part of the search, because if he is, some candidates will surely not want to be associated with it when you have an inside person being considered.

Manuel will have to say, at some point, that Ollie is not being considered for the position. That has happened in these situations before. I know the PSU case is totally a wildcard, but the people there said this to Tom Bradley and then announced it long before the Sandusky case broke. It's not unusual to tell an interim coach he won't be considered for precisely these reasons. You want to attract the best candidate pool possible.
 
I have always maintained that picking a successful coach, a president, or (by birth) a monarch is almost as random as throwing at a dart board. It's also sort of like winning the Medal of Honor. You cannot predict who will do the extraordinary thing(s) in a particular situation. I like KO because he seems to be a decent person and seems to know his BB stuff. Does that translate to success? None of us know, really.
 
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