Visions of Sugarplums-Is UConn Back on the Table for Big 12?

[freescooter]

B12 would not be a bad alternative and I'm skeptical that Cincinatti or UCF bring much. Cincy isn't even the most popular program in Cincy which it splits with Ohio State and to lesser degrees Kentucky and Louisville. Central Florida is hardly a blip compared to the Florida and FSU. If you can get FSU you would but the rest are so many Florida Atlantics.

 

[Dooley]

In case the above link doesn't work . . .
http://bit.do/bGQsg

Thanks for sharing.

Interesting quotes:

One of the issues that many have thought prevents UConn from being a viable option for the Big 12 is geography, but it seems that a solution for sports other than football have already been discussed should the Huskies be added.

“You might be able to work out a deal for basketball that Connecticut and West Virginia plays a two-game road trip when they come out west,” he said. “When one of the western schools goes east, they play both West Virginia and Connecticut, so there’s ways you can work around it. It’s not ideal, but it’s sort of the landscape we’ve been given and you need to make the best of it.”

What’s even better for UConn fans is all signs indicate that the Huskies are seriously being considered.

“Don’t discount what I said earlier about the prestige,” Tramel reinforced. “The conference really would like a state, flagship university. Connecticut has a very solid academic standing and is the ‘University of.’ They may be a New England state, which sounds foreign to the Big 12, but from a prestige and academic standing, it also sounds pretty good.”

 

[Penfield]

The only way I see this working is if they added UConn, Cinci, Memphis, Temple, USF, & UCF.

 

[huskymedic]

Biggest takeaway is that historically Tramel has been OU's media mouthpiece. So either UConn is being used to make a point or being used as a means for the end (whatever that may be on OU's agenda).

 

[06029]

UConn makes the most sense for any conference that hopes to build a conference network. Cincy, UCF or USF, Houston, and BYU all bring something to the table but no other school has exclusive statewide allegiance plus reach into huge out of state markets.

I understand that this is the prevailing belief on this board, but in FB, does it have any factual basis? Uconn has a hard time getting ratings in FF County. No one has ever posted the NYC metro ratingsd here for Uconn games. SNY is not part of basic cable or the expanded cable package in Springfield, Worcester or Providence. Not sure if you get it if you buy the super deluxe package. If your assertion were true, then Uconn would be in a different conference.

 

[06029]

"But if the conversation inevitably turns back to football, UConn wouldn't cut it."

Actually, UConn would be better in football the second they joined the Big 12. The capacity would be immediately expanded. Can you imagine The Rent with another deck?

So the state that can't balance its budget would magically find the $XX million to expand the Rent. All the reps from Waterbury, Bridgeport, New Haven, Willimantic, New London (all cities that cant get much help from the state on basic infrastructure needs) Litchfield County and even Hartford would be right on board with that vote for the bonding day 1? Now, whoever is gov would surely be able yo make some magic happen, but since the oriignal bonding was tied to Hartford redevelopment (including the convention center), I'm not sure how you get the expansion pushed thru quickly.

There is anti-Uconn sentiment in the political world in Hartford. The move downtown from West Hartford left a lot of stomped on legislators and lobbyists in its path. Don't discount it.

 

[Dooley]

Biggest takeaway is that historically Trammel has been OU's media mouthpiece. So either UConn is being used to make a point or being used as a means for the end (whatever that may be on OU's agenda).

I thought the same thing. Tramel actually sounds more like he's talking about the B1G than B12 when he says things like "state, flagship" and "prestige and academic". He could be just throwing it out there as a threat to Texas (and whoever) that OU would have a very easy time finding a partner for the B1G if the B12 doesn't expand.

 

[Dooley]

Getting my hopes up. That usually doesn't go well.

Ultimately, all CR decisions eventually goes back to Rule #1.

 

[cttxus]

I thought the same thing. Trammel actually sounds more like he's talking about the B1G than B12 when he says things like "state, flagship" and "prestige and academic". He could be just throwing it out there as a threat to Texas (and whoever) that OU would have a very easy time finding a partner for the B1G if the B12 doesn't expand.

Agree, and either way it could involve UConn. If it pulls us into the B12 can you imagine anything less than complete sellouts at the Rent when OU, Texas, OSU, Baylor and WV come to town?

 

[HuskyHawk]

I thought the same thing. Trammel actually sounds more like he's talking about the B1G than B12 when he says things like "state, flagship" and "prestige and academic". He could be just throwing it out there as a threat to Texas (and whoever) that OU would have a very easy time finding a partner for the B1G if the B12 doesn't expand.

It's no mistake. Boren is really trying to bump OU's academic reputation. UT is already very solid, and Baylor is strong. KU is AAU and is also trying to improve. ISU, KSU, OSU are all at least decent. WVU is at least a flagship. These university presidents absolutely want flagship universities, not directionals that are safety schools to those they consider their peers (USF and UCF to Florida for example, and even Cincy to Ohio State. I don't even nee to mention Memphis.). I think it is UConn's greatest current advantage...which is why Herbst keeps putting distance between us and everybody else in the G5 on that measure.

 

[Dooley]

Agree, and either way it could involve UConn. If it pulls us into the B12 can you imagine anything less than complete sellouts at the Rent when OU, Texas, OSU, Baylor and WV come to town?

I don't have a doubt in my mind that if it was announced that UConn would play in the B12 next year, we would sell well over 30K season tickets. Attendance would absolutely skyrocket just as it did in the first few years in the Big East. Then after the "new" wears off, it would pack the place at the Big East 85% capacity level dependent upon opponent and our own record. We wouldn't have a crowd less than 30K for a decade.

 

[Hoophound]

The more likely reason he is talking up UConn is that it is easier to drum up expansion interest with a real, flagship, championship winning school.
Texas wants prestige, WVU wants partners, OU wants a championship game and everyone else just wants to remain in a power conference. UConn brings value and the unique market making ability in WBB.

We will generate more money than anyone else, even BYU, because the B12 would quickly become the best WBB conference and get New York/New England market share. We provide the best content of all the schools too. Honestly, the Big 12 doesn't even need Florida/Ohio recruiting grounds. Texas produces enough players to supply the conference.

It was particularly interesting that Tramel talked about 2 game swings east for basketball to visit WVU and UConn. Well what about Cincy? As everyone has known for a long time, BYU and UConn are the biggest fish left. Cincy is not on par with UConn in terms of value, not even close. Is it possible the B12 could swing for the fences and bring in BYU and UConn instead?

 

[noeynox]

I understand that this is the prevailing belief on this board, but in FB, does it have any factual basis? Uconn has a hard time getting ratings in FF County. No one has ever posted the NYC metro ratingsd here for Uconn games. SNY is not part of basic cable or the expanded cable package in Springfield, Worcester or Providence. Not sure if you get it if you buy the super deluxe package. If your assertion were true, then Uconn would be in a different conference.

Are you sure you're a uconn fan?

Of the schools in the G5, uconn is the only whose athletic program has been funded like a P5 program and that includes BYU.

The Big 12 is looking at realistic options and what they bring to the table. Why sheet on uconn in this case?

 

[CTMike]

So the state that can't balance its budget would magically find the $XX million to expand the Rent. All the reps from Waterbury, Bridgeport, New Haven, Willimantic, New London (all cities that cant get much help from the state on basic infrastructure needs) Litchfield County and even Hartford would be right on board with that vote for the bonding day 1? Now, whoever is gov would surely be able yo make some magic happen, but since the oriignal bonding was tied to Hartford redevelopment (including the convention center), I'm not sure how you get the expansion pushed thru quickly.

There is anti-Uconn sentiment in the political world in Hartford. The move downtown from West Hartford left a lot of stomped on legislators and lobbyists in its path. Don't discount it.

Can you explain how the move away from a dumpy outdated west Hartford campus has any bearing? Legitimately curious.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I would love to join the Big12 with Cincinnati.

For nearly half a decade many people have been using the notion of a "travel partner" on here incorrectly. If road trips for hoops were set up to hit 2 of 3 WVU, Cincinnati, UConn and conversely if UConn plays Kansas they should also play Kansas State too. It's not ideal at all, but given that the AAC is all over the place it's not as far fetched either.

I also laugh at the idea that UConn is such a geographic outlier and BYU is a better fit. Had anyone ever seen a map? In terms of flight distance it's negligible.

UConn is a premiere academic, flagship state institution with one of the top 6-8 basketball traditions in America and the football program is now showing some life and some respectability under Diaco in returning to a bowl. We're also in a market that the B12 doesn't penetrate at all.

Look, at the end of the day if B12 expands with BYU and Cincinnati, it would absolutely suck. That being said BYU has a great football tradition and national following, while Cincinnati has very good football/hoops and in a market that makes sense. I don't buy any other combo.

 

[06029]

Can you explain how the move away from a dumpy outdated west Hartford campus has any bearing? Legitimately curious.

Cost. The downtown campus is costing money. Moving is costing money. Selling the WH campus at a fire sale price does not help. Adding more state/non-tax paying real estate to Hartford (although the economics of students downtown and spending money/living there helps to offset that).

None of this free or funded by private donations. Projected cost is about $50mm just for the development in Hartford. The move was opposed by a number of legislators citing costs. And this is actually a good plan for Uconn, Hartford and West Hartford. The benefits outweigh the costs in several studies thru better integration with companies, downtown residents, etc. But it was still opposed by a number of people.

Now picture the question of spending $XX million on a stadium expansion for 7 games per year that benefits who? Some conference that caters to TX and OK? It is just not the slam dunk people think it will be. The opposition would be loud and significant. Pre-sell 50,000 season tickets and you get a good counter argument but that won't happen overnight either. Season tickets maxed out at sub 30K so far.

 

[06029]

I would love to join the Big12 with Cincinnati.

For nearly half a decade many people have been using the notion of a "travel partner" on here incorrectly. If road trips for hoops were set up to hit 2 of 3 WVU, Cincinnati, UConn and conversely if UConn plays Kansas they should also play Kansas State too. It's not ideal at all, but given that the AAC is all over the place it's not as far fetched either.

I also laugh at the idea that UConn is such a geographic outlier and BYU is a better fit. Had anyone ever seen a map? In terms of flight distance it's negligible.

UConn is a premiere academic, flagship state institution with one of the top 6-8 basketball traditions in America and the football program is now showing some life and some respectability under Diaco in returning to a bowl. We're also in a market that the B12 doesn't penetrate at all.

Look, at the end of the day if B12 expands with BYU and Cincinnati, it would absolutely suck. That being said BYU has a great football tradition and national following, while Cincinnati has very good football/hoops and in a market that makes sense. I don't buy any other combo.

Travel Partner is a concept for non-revenue sports only like soccer, baseball, softball, etc. It exists today. That concept will not work for major sports like BB because so much of the schedule is made for TV. Plus an extended road trip is competitive disadvantage. For any of us that travel(ed) on long sales trips or extended projects for business, you know that life in multiple hotel rooms in 1 week can drain you. Only Uconn would have that to face in the Big12. Everyone else, an every other year trip to CT is no big deal. For Uconn, they are slogging a long way multiple times a year.

This is why the Big 12 is the worst of all possible expansion options because of the long one and done road trips. But any option is better than no option.

 

[06029]

The Big 12 is looking at realistic options and what they bring to the table. Why sheet on uconn in this case?

Where is the incremental value to the Big 12 with Uconn? I'm not pea ing on Uconn or its sports. But the stark reality is that if Uconn was such a great option to bring in surrounding TV eyes from adjacent states for FB (since that is all that matters), this thread would not exist.

Right now, the 12 is thinking everything is okay since they have someone in the final 4 this year and they can split the money 10 ways instead of 12. If they need 12, they will choose a team that -
1. Has the best TV ratings in the regular season
2. has a history and recognition nationally as a FB program
3. Gives them the best chance to add another solid, well paying post season bowl
4. Garners the most support from TX and OK

There are two teams that fit that list - ND and BYU. And ND is not going to the Big 12. SO if the B12 needs 12, they will go to BYU first. The second team will have to meet criteria 1, 3 and 4. And Uconn is in the mix with a bunch of other schools.

Uconn needs chaos and multiple moving parts and some impetus to make 14+ teams the new norm for the P5. And then it is the B1G or the ACC for Uconn.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Where is the incremental value to the Big 12 with Uconn? I'm not pea ing on Uconn or its sports. But the stark reality is that if Uconn was such a great option to bring in surrounding TV eyes from adjacent states for FB (since that is all that matters), this thread would not exist.

Right now, the 12 is thinking everything is okay since they have someone in the final 4 this year and they can split the money 10 ways instead of 12. If they need 12, they will choose a team that -
1. Has the best TV ratings in the regular season
2. has a history and recognition nationally as a FB program
3. Gives them the best chance to add another solid, well paying post season bowl
4. Garners the most support from TX and OK

There are two teams that fit that list - ND and BYU. And ND is not going to the Big 12. SO if the B12 needs 12, they will go to BYU first. The second team will have to meet criteria 1, 3 and 4. And Uconn is in the mix with a bunch of other schools.

Uconn needs chaos and multiple moving parts and some impetus to make 14+ teams the new norm for the P5. And then it is the B1G or the ACC for Uconn.

Disagree with some of this.

The idea that if UConn was worth x, why wouldn't they be in league x is bs. Just because Cuse and BC make $20M in the ACC and we make chump change in the AAC doesn't mean that's the gap between our schools. So much circumstance went into those decisions. Clearly were worth something if we fell just short a couple times.

I also don't buy that chaos is good for UConn either. Everything seems extremely stable right now. Pac12 is stable. B1G is stable. SEC is stable. The ACC is stable because UNC and UVA don't want to leave.

There are two openings and it's with the Big12. Cincinnati seems to be a given and then it's UConn, BYU and directional schools and non flagship universities (Houston, Memphis, Temple).

 

[CL82]

Where is the incremental value to the Big 12 with Uconn? I'm not pea ing on Uconn or its sports. But the stark reality is that if Uconn was such a great option to bring in surrounding TV eyes from adjacent states for FB (since that is all that matters), this thread would not exist.
.

Great point. There is an answer to it, of course. You can read about it here.

 

[auggie22]

Cost. The downtown campus is costing money. Moving is costing money. Selling the WH campus at a fire sale price does not help. Adding more state/non-tax paying real estate to Hartford (although the economics of students downtown and spending money/living there helps to offset that).

None of this free or funded by private donations. Projected cost is about $50mm just for the development in Hartford. The move was opposed by a number of legislators citing costs. And this is actually a good plan for Uconn, Hartford and West Hartford. The benefits outweigh the costs in several studies thru better integration with companies, downtown residents, etc. But it was still opposed by a number of people.

Now picture the question of spending $XX million on a stadium expansion for 7 games per year that benefits who? Some conference that caters to TX and OK? It is just not the slam dunk people think it will be. The opposition would be loud and significant. Pre-sell 50,000 season tickets and you get a good counter argument but that won't happen overnight either. Season tickets maxed out at sub 30K so far.

Pretty sure the season ticket max to date is approx 33K. Early years at the Rent.

 

[noeynox]

@06029 your post could be summed up by saying you have no idea what is best for the big 12, but uconn isn't it.

Uconn may not end up in the big 12, but you got 2 writers saying they're hearing positive things about the school. No need to poke holes in that on a uconn site other than to be di-ck.

 

[rich1122]

An away game in OK. No thanks. Beyond dumb.

 

[shizzle787]

An away game in OK. No thanks. Beyond dumb.

I'd rather play an away game at Tulsa. Oh, wait.

 

[UCFBfan]

Ultimately, all CR decisions eventually goes back to Rule #1.

And in this case I can see Rule #1 being a doozey! Watch UConn move to the Big 12 just to follow it up a few months later with the breaking news that UT and Baylor are moving to the SEC and OU and OSU moving to the B1G. We'll end up in an AAC 2.0 only this time with higher travel costs because not one school in the Big 12 is in a major airport location.

But there's always hope....and always Rule #1 in CR!