Visions of Sugarplums-Is UConn Back on the Table for Big 12?

[Dooley]

Agree, and either way it could involve UConn. If it pulls us into the B12 can you imagine anything less than complete sellouts at the Rent when OU, Texas, OSU, Baylor and WV come to town?

I don't have a doubt in my mind that if it was announced that UConn would play in the B12 next year, we would sell well over 30K season tickets. Attendance would absolutely skyrocket just as it did in the first few years in the Big East. Then after the "new" wears off, it would pack the place at the Big East 85% capacity level dependent upon opponent and our own record. We wouldn't have a crowd less than 30K for a decade.

 

[Hoophound]

The more likely reason he is talking up UConn is that it is easier to drum up expansion interest with a real, flagship, championship winning school.
Texas wants prestige, WVU wants partners, OU wants a championship game and everyone else just wants to remain in a power conference. UConn brings value and the unique market making ability in WBB.

We will generate more money than anyone else, even BYU, because the B12 would quickly become the best WBB conference and get New York/New England market share. We provide the best content of all the schools too. Honestly, the Big 12 doesn't even need Florida/Ohio recruiting grounds. Texas produces enough players to supply the conference.

It was particularly interesting that Tramel talked about 2 game swings east for basketball to visit WVU and UConn. Well what about Cincy? As everyone has known for a long time, BYU and UConn are the biggest fish left. Cincy is not on par with UConn in terms of value, not even close. Is it possible the B12 could swing for the fences and bring in BYU and UConn instead?

 

[noeynox]

I understand that this is the prevailing belief on this board, but in FB, does it have any factual basis? Uconn has a hard time getting ratings in FF County. No one has ever posted the NYC metro ratingsd here for Uconn games. SNY is not part of basic cable or the expanded cable package in Springfield, Worcester or Providence. Not sure if you get it if you buy the super deluxe package. If your assertion were true, then Uconn would be in a different conference.

Are you sure you're a uconn fan?

Of the schools in the G5, uconn is the only whose athletic program has been funded like a P5 program and that includes BYU.

The Big 12 is looking at realistic options and what they bring to the table. Why sheet on uconn in this case?

 

[CTMike]

So the state that can't balance its budget would magically find the $XX million to expand the Rent. All the reps from Waterbury, Bridgeport, New Haven, Willimantic, New London (all cities that cant get much help from the state on basic infrastructure needs) Litchfield County and even Hartford would be right on board with that vote for the bonding day 1? Now, whoever is gov would surely be able yo make some magic happen, but since the oriignal bonding was tied to Hartford redevelopment (including the convention center), I'm not sure how you get the expansion pushed thru quickly.

There is anti-Uconn sentiment in the political world in Hartford. The move downtown from West Hartford left a lot of stomped on legislators and lobbyists in its path. Don't discount it.

Can you explain how the move away from a dumpy outdated west Hartford campus has any bearing? Legitimately curious.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I would love to join the Big12 with Cincinnati.

For nearly half a decade many people have been using the notion of a "travel partner" on here incorrectly. If road trips for hoops were set up to hit 2 of 3 WVU, Cincinnati, UConn and conversely if UConn plays Kansas they should also play Kansas State too. It's not ideal at all, but given that the AAC is all over the place it's not as far fetched either.

I also laugh at the idea that UConn is such a geographic outlier and BYU is a better fit. Had anyone ever seen a map? In terms of flight distance it's negligible.

UConn is a premiere academic, flagship state institution with one of the top 6-8 basketball traditions in America and the football program is now showing some life and some respectability under Diaco in returning to a bowl. We're also in a market that the B12 doesn't penetrate at all.

Look, at the end of the day if B12 expands with BYU and Cincinnati, it would absolutely suck. That being said BYU has a great football tradition and national following, while Cincinnati has very good football/hoops and in a market that makes sense. I don't buy any other combo.

 

[06029]

Can you explain how the move away from a dumpy outdated west Hartford campus has any bearing? Legitimately curious.

Cost. The downtown campus is costing money. Moving is costing money. Selling the WH campus at a fire sale price does not help. Adding more state/non-tax paying real estate to Hartford (although the economics of students downtown and spending money/living there helps to offset that).

None of this free or funded by private donations. Projected cost is about $50mm just for the development in Hartford. The move was opposed by a number of legislators citing costs. And this is actually a good plan for Uconn, Hartford and West Hartford. The benefits outweigh the costs in several studies thru better integration with companies, downtown residents, etc. But it was still opposed by a number of people.

Now picture the question of spending $XX million on a stadium expansion for 7 games per year that benefits who? Some conference that caters to TX and OK? It is just not the slam dunk people think it will be. The opposition would be loud and significant. Pre-sell 50,000 season tickets and you get a good counter argument but that won't happen overnight either. Season tickets maxed out at sub 30K so far.

 

[06029]

I would love to join the Big12 with Cincinnati.

For nearly half a decade many people have been using the notion of a "travel partner" on here incorrectly. If road trips for hoops were set up to hit 2 of 3 WVU, Cincinnati, UConn and conversely if UConn plays Kansas they should also play Kansas State too. It's not ideal at all, but given that the AAC is all over the place it's not as far fetched either.

I also laugh at the idea that UConn is such a geographic outlier and BYU is a better fit. Had anyone ever seen a map? In terms of flight distance it's negligible.

UConn is a premiere academic, flagship state institution with one of the top 6-8 basketball traditions in America and the football program is now showing some life and some respectability under Diaco in returning to a bowl. We're also in a market that the B12 doesn't penetrate at all.

Look, at the end of the day if B12 expands with BYU and Cincinnati, it would absolutely suck. That being said BYU has a great football tradition and national following, while Cincinnati has very good football/hoops and in a market that makes sense. I don't buy any other combo.

Travel Partner is a concept for non-revenue sports only like soccer, baseball, softball, etc. It exists today. That concept will not work for major sports like BB because so much of the schedule is made for TV. Plus an extended road trip is competitive disadvantage. For any of us that travel(ed) on long sales trips or extended projects for business, you know that life in multiple hotel rooms in 1 week can drain you. Only Uconn would have that to face in the Big12. Everyone else, an every other year trip to CT is no big deal. For Uconn, they are slogging a long way multiple times a year.

This is why the Big 12 is the worst of all possible expansion options because of the long one and done road trips. But any option is better than no option.

 

[06029]

The Big 12 is looking at realistic options and what they bring to the table. Why sheet on uconn in this case?

Where is the incremental value to the Big 12 with Uconn? I'm not pea ing on Uconn or its sports. But the stark reality is that if Uconn was such a great option to bring in surrounding TV eyes from adjacent states for FB (since that is all that matters), this thread would not exist.

Right now, the 12 is thinking everything is okay since they have someone in the final 4 this year and they can split the money 10 ways instead of 12. If they need 12, they will choose a team that -
1. Has the best TV ratings in the regular season
2. has a history and recognition nationally as a FB program
3. Gives them the best chance to add another solid, well paying post season bowl
4. Garners the most support from TX and OK

There are two teams that fit that list - ND and BYU. And ND is not going to the Big 12. SO if the B12 needs 12, they will go to BYU first. The second team will have to meet criteria 1, 3 and 4. And Uconn is in the mix with a bunch of other schools.

Uconn needs chaos and multiple moving parts and some impetus to make 14+ teams the new norm for the P5. And then it is the B1G or the ACC for Uconn.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Where is the incremental value to the Big 12 with Uconn? I'm not pea ing on Uconn or its sports. But the stark reality is that if Uconn was such a great option to bring in surrounding TV eyes from adjacent states for FB (since that is all that matters), this thread would not exist.

Right now, the 12 is thinking everything is okay since they have someone in the final 4 this year and they can split the money 10 ways instead of 12. If they need 12, they will choose a team that -
1. Has the best TV ratings in the regular season
2. has a history and recognition nationally as a FB program
3. Gives them the best chance to add another solid, well paying post season bowl
4. Garners the most support from TX and OK

There are two teams that fit that list - ND and BYU. And ND is not going to the Big 12. SO if the B12 needs 12, they will go to BYU first. The second team will have to meet criteria 1, 3 and 4. And Uconn is in the mix with a bunch of other schools.

Uconn needs chaos and multiple moving parts and some impetus to make 14+ teams the new norm for the P5. And then it is the B1G or the ACC for Uconn.

Disagree with some of this.

The idea that if UConn was worth x, why wouldn't they be in league x is bs. Just because Cuse and BC make $20M in the ACC and we make chump change in the AAC doesn't mean that's the gap between our schools. So much circumstance went into those decisions. Clearly were worth something if we fell just short a couple times.

I also don't buy that chaos is good for UConn either. Everything seems extremely stable right now. Pac12 is stable. B1G is stable. SEC is stable. The ACC is stable because UNC and UVA don't want to leave.

There are two openings and it's with the Big12. Cincinnati seems to be a given and then it's UConn, BYU and directional schools and non flagship universities (Houston, Memphis, Temple).

 

[CL82]

Where is the incremental value to the Big 12 with Uconn? I'm not pea ing on Uconn or its sports. But the stark reality is that if Uconn was such a great option to bring in surrounding TV eyes from adjacent states for FB (since that is all that matters), this thread would not exist.
.

Great point. There is an answer to it, of course. You can read about it here.

 

[auggie22]

Cost. The downtown campus is costing money. Moving is costing money. Selling the WH campus at a fire sale price does not help. Adding more state/non-tax paying real estate to Hartford (although the economics of students downtown and spending money/living there helps to offset that).

None of this free or funded by private donations. Projected cost is about $50mm just for the development in Hartford. The move was opposed by a number of legislators citing costs. And this is actually a good plan for Uconn, Hartford and West Hartford. The benefits outweigh the costs in several studies thru better integration with companies, downtown residents, etc. But it was still opposed by a number of people.

Now picture the question of spending $XX million on a stadium expansion for 7 games per year that benefits who? Some conference that caters to TX and OK? It is just not the slam dunk people think it will be. The opposition would be loud and significant. Pre-sell 50,000 season tickets and you get a good counter argument but that won't happen overnight either. Season tickets maxed out at sub 30K so far.

Pretty sure the season ticket max to date is approx 33K. Early years at the Rent.

 

[noeynox]

@06029 your post could be summed up by saying you have no idea what is best for the big 12, but uconn isn't it.

Uconn may not end up in the big 12, but you got 2 writers saying they're hearing positive things about the school. No need to poke holes in that on a uconn site other than to be di-ck.

 

[rich1122]

An away game in OK. No thanks. Beyond dumb.

 

[shizzle787]

An away game in OK. No thanks. Beyond dumb.

I'd rather play an away game at Tulsa. Oh, wait.

 

[UCFBfan]

Ultimately, all CR decisions eventually goes back to Rule #1.

And in this case I can see Rule #1 being a doozey! Watch UConn move to the Big 12 just to follow it up a few months later with the breaking news that UT and Baylor are moving to the SEC and OU and OSU moving to the B1G. We'll end up in an AAC 2.0 only this time with higher travel costs because not one school in the Big 12 is in a major airport location.

But there's always hope....and always Rule #1 in CR!

 

[hardcorehusky]

Travel Partner is a concept for non-revenue sports only like soccer, baseball, softball, etc. It exists today. That concept will not work for major sports like BB because so much of the schedule is made for TV. Plus an extended road trip is competitive disadvantage. For any of us that travel(ed) on long sales trips or extended projects for business, you know that life in multiple hotel rooms in 1 week can drain you. Only Uconn would have that to face in the Big12. Everyone else, an every other year trip to CT is no big deal. For Uconn, they are slogging a long way multiple times a year.

This is why the Big 12 is the worst of all possible expansion options because of the long one and done road trips. But any option is better than no option.

The Pac 12 has been doing this in all sports for many years and their contracts seem just fine.

 

[BlueDogs]

Looks like the house money is on BYU and Cincy. The biggest negative is a lack of football history. In this day and age how that is relevant is beyond me. The addition of any program to a P5 conference automatically gives its a huge edge in recruiting up. The minute we move to Big 12 or B1G we become the default premier program in the Northeast and NY markets....Syracuse and BC go to the back of the line as small time private school programs in the ACC, and Rutgers is perpetually dysfunctional even despite B1G membership. We have the academics, media market and flagship university class, as well as dominant Basketball and other sports programs. I still think B1G is the right place for us as a state flagship university in the North, but Big12 will do fine.

 

[BoatShow]

We're 1-0 in our Big 12 conference basketball schedule

 

[Marty Jackson]

If the state is big enough, it can make sense. UC Berkeley and UCLA are effectively the universities of northern and southern California, respectively. San Diego State would be the equivalent of a directional school and would bring a major market. Texas has UTexas, A&M, Texas Tech in P5 and Tech is basically the equivalent of a directional school, as would be Houston. Florida is or is about to be the #3 state by population after California and Texas, and is a football recruiting hotbed. It may be able to support a 3rd state school, especially since Florida and Florida State are located well to the north of the major media markets.

The Big12 not adding Louisville and West Virginia was a big mistake that may be looked upon similar to Penn State and the Big East. Sitting there was Louisville, West Virginia, Cincy, and Pittsburgh. They missed on all of them but WV. They could still get Cincy and Uconn (a decent replacement for UofL albeit a little more geographically challenged)...
I think the consensus is that the Big12 needs to be bigger than a Texas conference. Adding Houston and SMU might make the football competitive, but it doesn't expand the conference and it doesn't add eyeballs. Unfortunately, the conference can't get out of it's own way and is destined to repeat the SWC failure. So they add SMU and Houston. But, the number one rule in CR is screw Uconn. So maybe, just maybe the gods are looking down at Uconn and saying "hey, what better way to screw uconn than to throw them a life-line on the Titanic"...

 

[BlueDogs]

If the big12 backfills with Cincy, UConn, Memphis and Temple, they create a pretty credible national presence. They also grab 4 excellent basketball programs.

So the state that can't balance its budget would magically find the $XX million to expand the Rent. All the reps from Waterbury, Bridgeport, New Haven, Willimantic, New London (all cities that cant get much help from the state on basic infrastructure needs) Litchfield County and even Hartford would be right on board with that vote for the bonding day 1? Now, whoever is gov would surely be able yo make some magic happen, but since the oriignal bonding was tied to Hartford redevelopment (including the convention center), I'm not sure how you get the expansion pushed thru quickly.

There is anti-Uconn sentiment in the political world in Hartford. The move downtown from West Hartford left a lot of stomped on legislators and lobbyists in its path. Don't discount it.

UConn sports are a significant economic driver with many secondary and tertiary economic benefits. The West Hartford issue has a lot more to do with some very particular insular interests of a very influential community in state politics. The minute we go P5, the multiplier effect will be significant. The Rent will be full with season ticket holders, local business traffic will increase, corporate sponsorship dollars will increase.

 

[Pudge]

Cost. The downtown campus is costing money. Moving is costing money. Selling the WH campus at a fire sale price does not help. Adding more state/non-tax paying real estate to Hartford (although the economics of students downtown and spending money/living there helps to offset that).

None of this free or funded by private donations. Projected cost is about $50mm just for the development in Hartford. The move was opposed by a number of legislators citing costs. And this is actually a good plan for Uconn, Hartford and West Hartford. The benefits outweigh the costs in several studies thru better integration with companies, downtown residents, etc. But it was still opposed by a number of people.

Now picture the question of spending $XX million on a stadium expansion for 7 games per year that benefits who? Some conference that caters to TX and OK? It is just not the slam dunk people think it will be. The opposition would be loud and significant. Pre-sell 50,000 season tickets and you get a good counter argument but that won't happen overnight either. Season tickets maxed out at sub 30K so far.

Lesson 4028 on Stadium Funding:

The RENT in a Stadium Authority is fairly easily re-financed and expanded. That is really not an issue at all. Grab the original bonds and read the opinion of the Bond Counsel. It really is not ... NOT ... going to burden the CT taxpayers like you think.

The question on the Stadium expansion is PURELY the ability to fill/need a bigger capacity. Well ... we proved through the Big East period that 40,000 was a great size as we s0ld that out regularly and had in excess of 30k season tickets. IF ... we are in the B12 or the B1G, with big names coming regularly, I truly don't think that it is too much to propose a 55,000 seat stadium BASED on past history. The RENT was proposed with a prayer of a BE conference. The B12 or the B1G are solid conferences with great appeal.

Your curmudgeonly attitude is all wet.

 

[CTMike]

Cost. The downtown campus is costing money. Moving is costing money. Selling the WH campus at a fire sale price does not help. Adding more state/non-tax paying real estate to Hartford (although the economics of students downtown and spending money/living there helps to offset that).

None of this free or funded by private donations. Projected cost is about $50mm just for the development in Hartford. The move was opposed by a number of legislators citing costs. And this is actually a good plan for Uconn, Hartford and West Hartford. The benefits outweigh the costs in several studies thru better integration with companies, downtown residents, etc. But it was still opposed by a number of people.

Now picture the question of spending $XX million on a stadium expansion for 7 games per year that benefits who? Some conference that caters to TX and OK? It is just not the slam dunk people think it will be. The opposition would be loud and significant. Pre-sell 50,000 season tickets and you get a good counter argument but that won't happen overnight either. Season tickets maxed out at sub 30K so far.

Sorry but I'm having a hard time making the leap from UConn Hartford to negative outlook on stadium expansion. The $50 million you mention isn't the incremental cost of Downtown versus West Hartford. UConn would have had to invest millions in to West Hartford campus to keep it current anyway - heck, it was severely outdated when I was there in 98-99. The cost difference I think would have been closer than most think, aside from the ancillary benefits of moving downtown that you mention. The only way I see it tying to a negative stadium outlook is just a general reluctance to spend money, which... pretty much always exists.

 

[weyuo]

The Big 12 might want to reach east or north but they aren't going to reach this far.

 

[uconnphil2016]

VERY interesting...found this retweeted from the UConn Blog

 

[UConnDan97]

VERY interesting...found this retweeted from the UConn Blog

 

[uconnphil2016]

I feel exactly the same way. Before that tweet, I thought BYU and Cincy and we had little shot. Now, not so sure. However, it's not like we were meeting with Texas or OU. K State isn't exactly the mover and shaker of the Big 12

 

[Dooley]

I feel exactly the same way. Before that tweet, I thought BYU and Cincy and we had little shot. Now, not so sure. However, it's not like we were meeting with Texas or OU. K State isn't exactly the mover and shaker of the Big 12

Just FYI - KSU's President Schulz served as B12 expansion committee chairman during their last expansion effort. I think meeting with him is every bit as important as meeting with Texas or OU officials.

 

[UConnDan97]

I feel exactly the same way. Before that tweet, I thought BYU and Cincy and we had little shot. Now, not so sure. However, it's not like we were meeting with Texas or OU. K State isn't exactly the mover and shaker of the Big 12

In the Key Tweets thread, apparently Shulz is the head of an important committee (expansion committee?) as it pertains to the conference. It doesn't take much for me to be a believer...

 

[uconnphil2016]

Just FYI - KSU's President Schulz served as B12 expansion committee chairman during their last expansion effort. I think meeting with him is every bit as important as meeting with Texas or OU officials.

I'm just looking for reasons to temper my excitement/enthusiasm

 

[Dooley]

I'm just looking for reasons to temper my excitement/enthusiasm

Completely understand this. Seems like the metrics for expansion change each and every time to justify choosing XYZ College over UConn. I'm just waiting to be told that now that UConn is showing a pulse again in football, we pose too much of a threat to the traditional football powers of the B12. Rule #1, my friend.