Vic Schaefer to Texas

[oldude]

I know Vic’s decision hurts quite a bit down in Starkville, but I didn’t realize how much it hurt until I took a look at the Bulldogs website. There is absolutely no mention of Vic, just a letter from the AD about the search for a new coach that doesn’t even mention the old coach or why the job is open in the first place. In addition, Vic’s bio has been expunged from the website, while those of all the assistants, including Blair Schaefer, remain on the site. It’s as if Vic’s 8 years at MS St never happened.

Is this what happens when someone on Facebook blocks you from their “Friends” list?

 

[HopJim]

Austin has an international airport and an interstate running through it. That would have to make recruiting visits much easier for prospective student athletes.

Plus it's Austin. Really cool town.

I have to smile at the posts comparing Starkville, MS to Austin. Sort of like comparing Storrs, Conn to …..

 

[CocoHusky]

Honestly, I can't believe Karen (or her agent, if she has one) allowed her contract to get beyond having 2 years remaining at any time. At that point, I would have demanded a 2-3 year extension based on my most recent job performance (4 consecutive Sweet 16's), or started looking elsewhere.

From a negotiating perspective, she lost all leverage continuing to allow her employment years/months to dwindle with no commitment from her boss(es). And, with her last two seasons being her worst (since her initial year at Texas), she did not make a strong case to get an extension. It's unfortunate for her that it turned out that way; but, CDC played it smarter IMO.

Maybe Karen was a casualty of the transition in ADs between Plonsky and Chris Del Conte. From his perspective, he played it perfectly (other than not moving a week or two faster for our liking in officially announcing she was not being extended). He basically let her "audition" to keep her job, and she didn't produce at a high enough level

When we last talked about this in a thread about coaches being on the hot seat Karen's name was certainly included in the discussion. I though the explanation from a Texas poster (I don think it was you), which made sense at the time, was that it was a matter of "priority" for Texas. Texas had a new AD? Football had priority? Men's basketball had the second priority (Smart Extension) and they would eventually get to Karen. If fact this poster also said that they would not be surprised if Karen's extension or lack of would be handled by the AD for women's sport. Am I misremembering any/all of this? BTW FSU is in a similar mess with Sue Semrau.

 

[southie]

When we last talked about this in a thread about coaches being on the hot seat Karen's name was certainly included in the discussion. I though the explanation from a Texas poster (I don think it was you), which made sense at the time, was that it was a matter of "priority" for Texas. Texas had a new AD? Football had priority? Men's basketball had the second priority (Smart Extension) and they would eventually get to Karen. If fact this poster also said that they would not be surprised if Karen's extension or lack of would be handled by the AD for women's sport. Am I misremembering any/all of this? BTW FSU is in a similar mess with Sue Semrau.

It wasn't me, I don't think.

This situation was very different as only once at Texas (softball coach Connie Clark in 2017-18) has a head coach gone into their final contract year with no apparent extension on the way; she was also not extended (although she issued a resignation statement after her final 2018 season).

While Texas women's hoops fans are ecstatic about this hire, Texas men's hoops-only fans are livid. They can't believe our AD is paying $2 million a year for a new women's hoops coach, and a $1.25 million buyout to MSU to get him, but won't axe men's basketball head coach, Shaka Smart, since he still has 3 years remaining with a guaranteed $10.5 million payout if fired.

 

[msf22b]

Insulting how?

Even if one takes into consideration the subsequent posts,
There is still an appropriate (and better) way to manage such actions.

It is not necessary for the university (in a sense) to gloat about their exceptional hire by trumpeting to the world that negotiations were ongoing at the same time that a person in that position was still ( at least technically) under contract.

The civilized way was for her to have been dismissed earlier or her non-renewal made public, and then after a appropriate interval the new hire announced.

There is a right way to do things and an insulting way.
There is no (obvious) reason to treat Aston in such a humiliating manner...She was (seemingly) an honorable person and performed her services in a decent, non-scandalous manner.

 

[southie]

Even if one takes into consideration the subsequent posts,
There is still an appropriate (and better) way to manage such actions.

It is not necessary for the university (in a sense) to gloat about their exceptional hire by trumpeting to the world that negotiations were ongoing at the same time that a person in that position was still ( at least technically) under contract.

The civilized way was for her to have been dismissed earlier or her non-renewal made public, and then after a appropriate interval the new hire announced.

There is a right way to do things and an insulting way.
There is no (obvious) reason to treat Aston in such a humiliating manner...She was (seemingly) an honorable person and performed her services in a decent, non-scandalous manner.

While I understand your point, none of us know all the interactions and communications between the new Texas AD and Karen Aston over the last 2 years since he arrived at Texas. Pretty sure every coach receives feedback and job evaluations on their performance, as well as objectives and goals they are expected to meet each season.

For those of us who have watched Karen all these years, she seemed to have lost the passion for coaching these last two seasons; and, her teams' performance certainly reflected that.

 

[HuskyNan]

Even if one takes into consideration the subsequent posts,
There is still an appropriate (and better) way to manage such actions.

It is not necessary for the university (in a sense) to gloat about their exceptional hire by trumpeting to the world that negotiations were ongoing at the same time that a person in that position was still ( at least technically) under contract.

The civilized way was for her to have been dismissed earlier or her non-renewal made public, and then after a appropriate interval the new hire announced.

There is a right way to do things and an insulting way.
There is no (obvious) reason to treat Aston in such a humiliating manner...She was (seemingly) an honorable person and performed her services in a decent, non-scandalous manner.

In the end, athletics at elite, powerful schools like Texas is a business. Aston is an intelligent woman and I’m sure she was quite aware of this.

Just curious - would you be as concerned about the football coach’s feelings if Texas didn’t renew his contract?

 

[cbraarj]

I read too many things today. I looked again to double check. Now I'm seeing $500/month. Don't believe everything you read on a message board. My bad.

It happens.

 

[Golden Husky]

MSU = Michigan State University Spartans
USC = University of Southern California Trojans

Stop trying to confuse me!

 

[HuskyNan]

MSU = Michigan State University Spartans
USC = University of Southern California Trojans

Stop trying to confuse me!

Who is UT?

 

[Plebe]

I know Vic’s decision hurts quite a bit down in Starkville, but I didn’t realize how much it hurt until I took a look at the Bulldogs website. There is absolutely no mention of Vic, just a letter from the AD about the search for a new coach that doesn’t even mention the old coach or why the job is open in the first place. In addition, Vic’s bio has been expunged from the website, while those of all the assistants, including Blair Schaefer, remain on the site. It’s as if Vic’s 8 years at MS St never happened.

Is this what happens when someone on Facebook blocks you from their “Friends” list?

Removing the bio isn't terribly unusual under the circumstances. I wouldn't expect them to post a message thanking him for the fun years and wishing him all the best. I'm sure the AD feels they did all they could to make Vic want to stay in Starkville, and for Vic to leave has to feel, well, something less than nice.

Here's some food for thought. It had been presumed by many that Vic, as an alum and former AC at TAMU, was the heir apparent to Gary Blair in College Station. If Blair had announced his retirement on Friday and Vic were leaving for TAMU instead of UT, would the split be more amicable? Would the AD's and players' feelings be less raw?

 

[msf22b]

In the end, athletics at elite, powerful schools like Texas is a business. Aston is an intelligent woman and I’m sure she was quite aware of this.

Just curious - would you be as concerned about the football coach’s feelings if Texas didn’t renew his contract?

I have no knowledge about any football (or football politics in general) problem and am not especially concerned that Aston's contract wasn't renewed.

My concern is limited to the manner in which the University
handled the dismissal/hiring.

I had a considerable amount of experience in handling such matters (going back to ancient days) was considered a not especially warm individual, but would have never handled a transition in this manner...It's just not professional.

 

[Flyinsouth]

I would be curious to see if Texas made a run at anyone else like Kelly Graves? (I could see them make an attempt but Graves is in such a great spot and is recruiting at a high level to Eugene (easily the top 2020 class). Texas did raid and significantly outbid for Oregon's top 5 Softball coach, Mike White, 2 years ago. The Longhorns have unreal deep pockets due to all the land grant aid that Texas and Texas A&M receive.

 

[militarydog]

I know Vic’s decision hurts quite a bit down in Starkville, but I didn’t realize how much it hurt until I took a look at the Bulldogs website. There is absolutely no mention of Vic, just a letter from the AD about the search for a new coach that doesn’t even mention the old coach or why the job is open in the first place. In addition, Vic’s bio has been expunged from the website, while those of all the assistants, including Blair Schaefer, remain on the site. It’s as if Vic’s 8 years at MS St never happened.

Is this what happens when someone on Facebook blocks you from their “Friends” list?

I wouldn’t read too much into that or the statement. Obviously some fans and some players are heartbroken. Further I’ve seen on the message boards where some fans are completely losing their minds. However the athletic director John Cohen is simply doing what is best for the program right now by trying to keep the momentum going that Coach Schaefer started. Before becoming athletic director Coach Cohen was a very successful college baseball coach. He is technically from Alabama but grew up within an hour of Mississippi State and played there. He had a very successful run at the University of Kentucky but left there to come back to Mississippi State. The University of Kentucky did the exact same thing in trying to keep him as he did in trying to keep Coach Schaefer. I think at the appropriate time, after a new coach has been hired, you will see a statement of thanks to Coach Schaefer.

 

[DaBball]

Removing the bio isn't terribly unusual under the circumstances. I wouldn't expect them to post a message thanking him for the fun years and wishing him all the best. I'm sure the AD feels they did all they could to make Vic want to stay in Starkville, and for Vic to leave has to feel, well, something less than nice.

Here's some food for thought. It had been presumed by many that Vic, as an alum and former AC at TAMU, was the heir apparent to Gary Blair in College Station. If Blair had announced his retirement on Friday and Vic were leaving for TAMU instead of UT, would the split be more amicable? Would the AD's and players' feelings be less raw?

I think they would have, to an extent, expected him to be leaving if the Texas A&M job opened up. I think it caught them so off guard, but I think returning to Texas was probably at the top of his list.

As for the players, it seems like a mix. Some alums we’re happy, and some weren’t. Espinoza-Hunter was pissed though, probably more openly than other player, then Sidney Cooks. I don’t know of how the announcement went down though, still seems unclear (unless someone definitively cleared it up and I missed it).

 

[BobbyJ]

And the timing is really insulting to Aston
They couldn't have waited a few days just for appearances?

So obvious.... while she was still officially engaged (or perhaps a day or two afterwards)...they were obviously finalizing his agreement behind her back.

Aston is not one of not one of my fav coaches.
But to treat her in such a disrespectful manner is unnecessarily cruel.

They needed her to get the office cleaned out for photo ops. SOP for many ADs.

 

[TheFarmFan]

I would be curious to see if Texas made a run at anyone else like Kelly Graves? (I could see them make an attempt but Graves is in such a great spot and is recruiting at a high level to Eugene (easily the top 2020 class). Texas did raid and significantly outbid for Oregon's top 5 Softball coach, Mike White, 2 years ago. The Longhorns have unreal deep pockets due to all the land grant aid that Texas and Texas A&M receive.

You're not wrong in terms of your conclusion that UT and A&M have deep pockets, but it's worth clarifying that UT is not a land grant school, though Texas A&M is, along with A&M Prairie View. And the deep pockets have nothing to do with being a land grant school, a status whose origins go back to the federal government donating grants of land for state universities first during the Civil War era (when A&M was established), with a second wave in the 1890s (when Prairie View was founded).

The reason the UT and A&M schools have deep pockets is the oil and gas revenues trust that contributes over $1b per year to the Texas state schools. That, not an act of generosity from the federal government 150 years ago, is why they're so rich. Just ask poor land grant schools like Oregon State and Washington State - being a land grant is no guarantee of deep pockets, and usually quite the opposite.

 

[G-Dawg]

. If Blair had announced his retirement on Friday and Vic were leaving for TAMU instead of UT, would the split be more amicable? Would the AD's and players' feelings be less raw?

In a word - YES. I think most MSU fans like me had in the back of their minds that if Gary Blair retired, we'd lose Vic to them. When I saw Aston wouldn't be renewed it popped into my mind for less than a second that he might end up in Austin. "Nahhhh...he's an AGGIE." I forgot that his elderly parents live in Austin and that he was born there. Draw of family is powerful. I left an AD job in Louisiana that I loved to move back home to Mississippi after my daughter was born so that we could raise her near her grandparents.

 

[Plebe]

In a word - YES. I think most MSU fans like me had in the back of their minds that if Gary Blair retired, we'd lose Vic to them. When I saw Aston wouldn't be renewed it popped into my mind for less than a second that he might end up in Austin. "Nahhhh...he's an AGGIE." I forgot that his elderly parents live in Austin and that he was born there. Draw of family is powerful. I left an AD job in Louisiana that I loved to move back home to Mississippi after my daughter was born so that we could raise her near her grandparents.

I had the same thought. The folks on the Texas board have been talking about replacements almost all season long. Schaefer's name barely came up, and any time I thought of him, I did the same instantaneous mental dismissal as you.

In terms of potential "home run hires" (established coaches at elite programs), I actually thought Walz would've been the most poachable.

As I said elsewhere, the times they are a'changin'. The UT-A&M rivalry has lost a bit of its edge, perhaps, since conference realignment. I remember when Danni Williams grad-transferred to Texas, people said they never thought they'd see an Aggie wear Longhorn orange.

As Geno quipped some time ago, "What happened to the hate? It's no fun anymore."

 

[Txhoopsalot]

I would be curious to see if Texas made a run at anyone else like Kelly Graves? (I could see them make an attempt but Graves is in such a great spot and is recruiting at a high level to Eugene (easily the top 2020 class). Texas did raid and significantly outbid for Oregon's top 5 Softball coach, Mike White, 2 years ago. The Longhorns have unreal deep pockets due to all the land grant aid that Texas and Texas A&M receive.

I doubt it. I cannot think of a top five to ten coach who fits Texas better than Schaefer. Dawn Staley would have been an enormously popular hire but no one thinks she would leave South Carolina. She has no reason to leave South Carolina. When Del Conte decided to fire a coach with Aston's record, he needed to make a home-run hire: I think he has. I have a negative opinion of Del Conte due to what I perceive to be an apparent lack of awareness around women, but I cannot realistically criticize this particular hire.

 

[HuskylnSC]

If Vic has been negotiating for some time as I referenced in a previous post, That means he was negotiating with UT while he was being paid by MSU and active in season and in charge of recruiting for MSU. If I was an MSU fan, I would be livid at the duplicity. I would want to know how long the negotiations had gone on and the potential for conflict of interest in all areas of coaching and recruitment. If Vic did not give 100% to MSU recruiting for any time while he was the coach at MSU has that recruiting been damaged by his action or lack of actions. Lots of questions on this issue

 

[triaddukefan]

You're not wrong in terms of your conclusion that UT and A&M have deep pockets, but it's worth clarifying that UT is not a land grant school, though Texas A&M is, along with A&M Prairie View. And the deep pockets have nothing to do with being a land grant school, a status whose origins go back to the federal government donating grants of land for state universities first during the Civil War era (when A&M was established), with a second wave in the 1890s (when Prairie View was founded).

The reason the UT and A&M schools have deep pockets is the oil and gas revenues trust that contributes over $1b per year to the Texas state schools. That, not an act of generosity from the federal government 150 years ago, is why they're so rich. Just ask poor land grant schools like Oregon State and Washington State - being a land grant is no guarantee of deep pockets, and usually quite the opposite.

Did someone say Land Grant?

 

[Cornell Lt]

Can someone please translate this message for me?

Miss State head football coach tweeted an image that contained a woman knitting a noose while quarantined at home. Pretty stupid this day and age. And also at least one player entered into the transfer portal because of his actions

 

[oldude]

Removing the bio isn't terribly unusual under the circumstances. I wouldn't expect them to post a message thanking him for the fun years and wishing him all the best. I'm sure the AD feels they did all they could to make Vic want to stay in Starkville, and for Vic to leave has to feel, well, something less than nice.

Here's some food for thought. It had been presumed by many that Vic, as an alum and former AC at TAMU, was the heir apparent to Gary Blair in College Station. If Blair had announced his retirement on Friday and Vic were leaving for TAMU instead of UT, would the split be more amicable? Would the AD's and players' feelings be less raw?

I think the BY generally considers Vic Schaefer to be a Class Act. Regardless of how everyone felt in Starkville, it would have been appropriate and professional for the AD to issue a perfunctory press release thanking Vic for all he did for WBB at MS St and wishing him well.

 

[oldude]

I wouldn’t read too much into that or the statement. Obviously some fans and some players are heartbroken. Further I’ve seen on the message boards where some fans are completely losing their minds. However the athletic director John Cohen is simply doing what is best for the program right now by trying to keep the momentum going that Coach Schaefer started. Before becoming athletic director Coach Cohen was a very successful college baseball coach. He is technically from Alabama but grew up within an hour of Mississippi State and played there. He had a very successful run at the University of Kentucky but left there to come back to Mississippi State. The University of Kentucky did the exact same thing in trying to keep him as he did in trying to keep Coach Schaefer. I think at the appropriate time, after a new coach has been hired, you will see a statement of thanks to Coach Schaefer.

It just seems that in his letter detailing his discussion with the team and the search for a new HC, Cohen could have easily added one sentence thanking Schaefer for his contribution to MS St WBB. I just found it odd that there was no reference in the letter to the reason why the Bulldogs were looking for a new coach.