Val Ackerman on the future of college athletics & conference realignment

[Kolumbo]

That's true but it does explain why the Big East is unlikely to add anyone.

And you can repeat it again if it makes you feel better.

 

[Kolumbo]

The Big East needs to merge with one of the ACC or Big 12. When 1 or 2 players in any market start to emerge as stronger, whoever is at 3rd and down needs to make some moves or they risk getting left behind. The Big East, with its big cities, does have something to offer the ACC and Big 12.

I know someone will say "mouths to feed blah blah" but the Big East is more valuable as a block then as individual pieces, and UConn can leverage 10 other big market schools to find a home for its football program, rather than keep hoping to beg its way into a P4 which it has already tried and failed to do. A conference is a scheduling and media conglomerate at this point in realignment, so history and the rest are less important. Partnering with the Big East gives either merger partner more leverage in its negotiations on both the future of the CFP and of the NCAA Basketball Tournament.

Right. The entire block is more valuable rather than the pieces and brings great tv markets, especially for basketball.
1. If the Big East knew then what it knows now, perhaps the old Big East could have figured it out and made it work. Or it didn't have the correct pieces in place.
2. The former Big East pieces aren't doing so well today. A merger goes back to the old model with more knowledge.
3. The ACC could let whoever wants to leave, leave. Then merge with the Big East, have decent football, and by far the best basketball. A differentiation from the P2 since it won't be able to compete head to head on football.

 

[CL82]

And you can repeat it again if it makes you feel better.

"That's true but it does explain why the Big East is unlikely to add anyone."

 

[CL82]

Right. The entire block is more valuable rather than the pieces and brings great tv markets, especially for basketball.
1. If the Big East knew then what it knows now, perhaps the old Big East could have figured it out and made it work. Or it didn't have the correct pieces in place.
2. The former Big East pieces aren't doing so well today. A merger goes back to the old model with more knowledge.
3. The ACC could let whoever wants to leave, leave. Then merge with the Big East, have decent football, and by far the best basketball. A differentiation from the P2 since it won't be able to compete head to head on football.

I guess they could do that, but why would they given that the bulk of the value from a television contract is for broadcasting FBS football. Adding basketball only schools doesn't really help them if they've lost football schools.

 

[Kolumbo]

I guess they could do that, but why would they given that the bulk of the value from a television contract is for broadcasting FBS football. Adding basketball only schools doesn't really help them if they've lost football schools.

I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand. Right now the Big East makes decent money as a basketball conference. There's the value. Merge with the ACC and the value probably goes up because in addition to the vaunted DePauls, Butlers, and BCUs you are adding games between UConn, Syracuse (God help them), Villanova, Duke, Marquette, Pitt, etc. There was a time when they were the two best basketball conferences in the country.

That's in addition to the value added by combined programs in Soccer, Lacrosse, Field Hockey, Golf, Tennis...

 

[jostar1]

There’s no one out there who is worth the addition. Only another mouth to feed.

I hate that phrase because that is what P-4 schools say about UConn.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[Fishy]

Long term, the Big East needs some kind of life line from the P4.

It’s highly unlikely that they’ll get one. There’s no problem facing a P4 conference where the answer is “play basketball games against Seton Hall and Butler.”

 

[CL82]

I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand. Right now the Big East makes decent money as a basketball conference. There's the value. Merge with the ACC and the value probably goes up because in addition to the vaunted DePauls, Butlers, and BCUs you are adding games between UConn, Syracuse (God help them), Villanova, Duke, Marquette, Pitt, etc. There was a time when they were the two best basketball conferences in the country.

That's in addition to the value added by combined programs in Soccer, Lacrosse, Field Hockey, Golf, Tennis...

Lol, "I know this is hard for you to understand" but teams aren't monopoly houses. They aren't fungible. You are proposing things additions that aren't accretive to the conference. That's what people are commenting on. There's no need to get butt hurt over it.

 

[cellocgg]

Long term, the Big East needs some kind of life line from the P4.

It’s highly unlikely that they’ll get one. There’s no problem facing a P4 conference where the answer is “play basketball games against Seton Hall and Butler.”

Why would the Big East get one? It's a conference full of the type of schools weighing the ACC down. Obviously there is an exception

 

[Kolumbo]

Lol, "I know this is hard for you to understand" but teams aren't monopoly houses. They aren't fungible. You are proposing things additions that aren't accretive to the conference. That's what people are commenting on. There's no need to get butt hurt over it.

So you would argue that Villanova playing the current Big East slate is more valuable than Villanova adding Duke, UNC, Virginia, Wake, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville to the schedule. Because that is what you are arguing. Villanova would absolutely become more valuable as would all the other programs. I'm not butt hurt over it. I'm just tired of you replying with the same comment that nothing changes.

 

[Fishy]

So you would argue that Villanova playing the current Big East slate is more valuable than Villanova adding Duke, UNC, Virginia, Wake, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville to the schedule. Because that is what you are arguing. Villanova would absolutely become more valuable as would all the other programs. I'm not butt hurt over it. I'm just tired of you replying with the same comment that nothing changes.

The problem is that Duke does not suddenly become more valuable if it plays Villanova. It’s the same as claiming that Dayton becomes more valuable if it plays Villanova - Villanova does not become more valuable by playing Dayton which is why Villanova is not considering a relationship with Dayton any more than Duke is considering Villanova.

There’s no business case for all these pie in the sky solutions everyone comes up with.

 

[CL82]

The problem is that Duke does not suddenly become more valuable if it plays Villanova. It’s the same as claiming that Dayton becomes more valuable if it plays Villanova - Villanova does not become more valuable by playing Dayton which is why Villanova is not considering a relationship with Dayton any more than Duke is considering Villanova.

There’s no business case for all these pie in the sky solutions everyone comes up with.

 

[CL82]

So you would argue that Villanova playing the current Big East slate is more valuable than Villanova adding Duke, UNC, Virginia, Wake, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville to the schedule. .

No, I would argue that Duke doesn't become more valuable by playing Villanova, Butler, DePaul and Seton Hall. There no incentive for the ACC to merge with Big East.

 

[Kolumbo]

Long term, the Big East needs some kind of life line from the P4.

It’s highly unlikely that they’ll get one. There’s no problem facing a P4 conference where the answer is “play basketball games against Seton Hall and Butler.”

True. It wouldn't solve any problems. But I'll bet both the ACC and Big 12 would like to play more games in NY, NJ, Indiana, Illinois. It may just be additional gravy for those conferences, nothing major, but that gravy may soon be worth more than what the Big East currently makes.

The problem is that Duke does not suddenly become more valuable if it plays Villanova. It’s the same as claiming that Dayton becomes more valuable if it plays Villanova - Villanova does not become more valuable by playing Dayton which is why Villanova is not considering a relationship with Dayton any more than Duke is considering Villanova.

There’s no business case for all these pie in the sky solutions everyone comes up with.

The only problem here is that you are comparing Dayton to Villanova.

First, Dayton absolutely would become more valuable playing Villanova. That is a no brainer, a big step up in scheduling. Second, Duke may become more valuable playing Villanova and UConn, but Duke is Duke so it doesn't have to become more valuable. Other programs in the ACC would certainly get a bump, cuse and Pitt e.g. The point is UConn, Villanova, Marquette become more valuable adding Duke and other ACC programs to the schedule. So it is an overall value add to the combined league. If that happens, then the deal is worth doing. Just as some believe Clemson and FL State would be more valuable in the SEC.

I can't see how anyone would that UConn basketball wouldn't be more valuable adding ACC programs to the schedule rather than having to play 4 games against DePaul and Butler every year. That makes no sense at all.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The problem is that Duke does not suddenly become more valuable if it plays Villanova. It’s the same as claiming that Dayton becomes more valuable if it plays Villanova - Villanova does not become more valuable by playing Dayton which is why Villanova is not considering a relationship with Dayton any more than Duke is considering Villanova.

There’s no business case for all these pie in the sky solutions everyone comes up with.

But Vtech, NC state, Wake Forest, Gtech, BCU and many of the rest do. The ACC has a lot of schools with overlapping markets, rural markets, or urban markets where no one cares about them. It needs real markets.

 

[jostar1]

If the ACC did anything, they would cherry-pick, like they did the last time. And there is one school they could cherry-pick right now, and they haven't done it.

 

[UConnDan97]

The real problem as I see it for the merger case is this: yes, Duke playing Villanova is more valuable than Duke playing Wake Forest. That's just simple population math. But without a mechanism to jettison Wake in order to acquire Villanova, it's no better than just scheduling an OOC game between each other. You won't be able to have a true home-and-home with 36 teams (or whatever the number would be).

Until you can find a way to send the Butlers and Wakes packing in order to merge, it doesn't make sense...

 

[CL82]

The real problem as I see it for the merger case is this: yes, Duke playing Villanova is more valuable than Duke playing Wake Forest. That's just simple population math. But without a mechanism to jettison Wake in order to acquire Villanova, it's no better than just scheduling an OOC game between each other. You won't be able to have a true home-and-home with 36 teams (or whatever the number would be).

Until you can find a way to send the Butlers and Wakes packing in order to merge, it doesn't make sense...

Let's assume that you're correct that playing Villanova in basketball has more value to Duke than playing Wake Forest in basketball. And let's for a moment assume that it's possible to jettison Wake Forest. The real question is whether Duke playing Villanova in basketball is more valuable than playing basketball and football versus Wake Forest. The answer is that it isn't.

 

[UConnDan97]

Let's assume that you're correct that playing Villanova in basketball has more value to Duke than playing Wake Forest in basketball. And let's for a moment assume that it's possible to jettison Wake Forest. The real question is whether Duke playing Villanova in basketball is more valuable than playing basketball and football versus Wake Forest. The answer is that it isn't.

Well, yes it is when you consider that the ACC doesn't play against all conference mates in football. So... if you're playing against Wake in football instead of playing Pitt or Stanford, then you're losing there too...

 

[nelsonmuntz]

If the ACC did anything, they would cherry-pick, like they did the last time. And there is one school they could cherry-pick right now, and they haven't done it.

If the ACC was going to cherry pick, it would have added UConn. Has it added UConn?

 

[Kolumbo]

From another perspective. Remember, both Coaches K and Pitino like the idea and they have about 500 years of experience between them. You cannot risk being left behind.

Both the Big East and ACC have blue blood programs, excellent programs, good programs, and dregs - your bcu, depaul, etc. A combined league by sheer numbers would have more top-notch perennial ranked programs than the SEC, Big 10, or Big XII. That feather in the cap alone is worth a premium bonus since it would be THE premier basketball conference. As it is now, the two conferences are number 4 and 5, or 5 and 6. That sucks. So there is a lot of brand marketing value there. If you ain't first, you're last.

Plus, and I know some will disagree, the merged conference would get an additional boost by uniting major markets Chicago, Indianapolis, NYC, Hartford, Boston, Philly, DC, Cincy, Atlanta, Charlotte, Miami, Dallas, Frisco, etc. So, numbers, logistics, synergies, rivalries, all that sheet. It would be one hell of an amazing basketball conference and there is no question, it would put like 10 - 15 programs in the dance every year. If you overlayed the Big East and ACC maps, it would blanket the entire eastern and central time zones including every major city. And that's all that really matters, especially when it comes to basketball.

Finally, the way the football CFP plan is going, the Big Ten and SEC are forking it up for everyone else anyway. Most of the ACC is virtually shut out as is the Big XII. I mean, FSU was literally shut out last year. If the Big Ten and SEC break away, whatever happens, the ACC/Big East toes are still tappin'. A 28 member basketball conference will not only never be left behind, it would be calling the shots vis-a-vis the basketball tournament. The Big Ten can go home and get their freaking shineboxes.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

 

[jostar1]

If the ACC was going to cherry pick, it would have added UConn. Has it added UConn?

That's what I said. IF they did anything, they would cherry-pick. And they haven't done it.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

That's what I said. IF they did anything, they would cherry-pick. And they haven't done it.

No one has tried anything else in the streaming era. These conferences were assembled to maximize their value to linear cable. Linear cable is shrinking and may die altogether in the next 10 years. I think it is worth being creative.

If you think UConn is already dead, then it is over and you have nothing to worry about.

 

[uconnyankee]

The real problem as I see it for the merger case is this: yes, Duke playing Villanova is more valuable than Duke playing Wake Forest. That's just simple population math. But without a mechanism to jettison Wake in order to acquire Villanova, it's no better than just scheduling an OOC game between each other. You won't be able to have a true home-and-home with 36 teams (or whatever the number would be).

Until you can find a way to send the Butlers and Wakes packing in order to merge, it doesn't make sense...

Conference realignment has been exactly that.
It’s been taking the ‘perceived’ value and dropping the rest.

UConn, USF and Cincy were all BCS schools that got cut out.
ACC took their choices, WVU went Big 12 and rest went to AAC.

Same for Pac12. OSU and WSU were left out. If ACC is targeted it’s likely schools will be cut out.

Every conference has those schools. Obviously, being in the P2 helps until those conferences start looking inward.

Years from now UConn will be to ACC as Penn State was to Big East.

 

[CL82]

Well, yes it is when you consider that the ACC doesn't play against all conference mates in football. So... if you're playing against Wake in football instead of playing Pitt or Stanford, then you're losing there too...

Not really, because football games are 80% of the value of the media rights contract. So the mere fact that Wake Forest is playing someone has more value than Villanova playing anyone.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Conference realignment has been exactly that.
It’s been taking the ‘perceived’ value and dropping the rest.

UConn, USF and Cincy were all BCS schools that got cut out.
ACC took their choices, WVU went Big 12 and rest went to AAC.

Same for Pac12. OSU and WSU were left out. If ACC is targeted it’s likely schools will be cut out.

Every conference has those schools. Obviously, being in the P2 helps until those conferences start looking inward.

Years from now UConn will be to ACC as Penn State was to Big East.

Is the media world the same as it was in 2002?

 

[Kolumbo]

aaaaand this popped up on my feed, those AI bastards. I know it aint happenin' but I like the map. I say 2 divisions of 14 each. Each division has 9 football and 5 basketball only. screw ND.

 

[CL82]

aaaaand this popped up on my feed, those AI bastards. I know it aint happenin' but I like the map. I say 2 divisions of 14 each. Each division has 9 football and 5 basketball only. screw ND.

I think it's extraordinarily unlikely, but, if Connecticut gets a full revenue share and a membership in the P4 with the attendant access to the CFP, while still being able to schedule local basketball games against big east opponents that's the best of all possible worlds for us.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

I think it's extraordinarily unlikely, but, if Connecticut gets a full revenue share and a membership in the P4 with the attendant access to the CFP, while still being able to schedule local basketball games against big east opponents that's the best of all possible worlds for us.

As compared to where we've been, are now, and could be in the future, I'd call it nirvana. Only getting into the B1G would be better.