USMNT Falling

[crewbear742]

Since the issue is framed in terms of equal pay, the actual equation should be "Equal pay for equal value created." Women's Soccer doesn't come close to creating equal value. Women's Soccer simply isn't that popular. There is sort of a quasi "Labor Theory of Value" in play here. The idea is that peer teams playing at the same level by definition do the same work. No, they don't. It's a lot harder to win on the Men's side because of the interest in men's Soccer worldwide and the concomitant high level of competition.

This is much more an ideological case intended to prove that Women's Soccer is in fact a peer of Men's Soccer. It is in truth a denial of the market forces that constrain the growth of Women's professional sport. The USWNT is asking the court to assert that water flows uphill.

 

[meyers7]

Actually, the women are physically inferior, they are weaker, slower, can't jump as high or kick as far. They may perform as well in some finese aspects of the game and they have comparable conditioning. But they are indisputably athletically inferior. These are absolute facts that are objectively measurable. Even the worst member of the men's team would be a superstar if put into a women's game.

That said. You shouldn't say it because it is as the previous poster noted, it is a PR nightmare and green light for a workplace discrimination suit.

The point of all this is that all pay is not based on work output. Equal pay for equal work sounds reasonable. But equal pay for equal value is how television revenue is decided.

I was talking to my wife about this. I told her it's like when a woman asks, "do you think she's prettier than me?". Obviously she is (or the woman wouldn't be asking), BUT you don't say "yes". Stupid argument. Heads should roll for this. And Codeiro's did.

The arguments USSF should make should be directly about the money the women get and the money they bring in. The women aren't even equal among themselves. The salaries paid, by USSF, for their NWSL time is split into Tier 1 and Tier 2 ($67,500 and $62,500). So they discriminate amoungst themselves.

I've read Cindy Parlow is taking over Codeiro's spot. Maybe that will help smooth over things.

 

[Waquoit]

The arguments USSF should make should be directly about the money the women get and the money they bring in. The women aren't even equal among themselves. The salaries paid, by USSF, for their NWSL time is split into Tier 1 and Tier 2 ($67,500 and $62,500). So they discriminate amoungst themselves.

So even the women's pro salaries are subsidized by USSF? Am I reading that right?

 

[meyers7]

So even the women's pro salaries are subsidized by USSF? Am I reading that right?

As I've read it/understand it. Not all the NT players. There are 21 NT players that get their salary from USSF.

AND there are 17 NT players that are on contract with USSF. They get $100,000/yr whether they play for the US or not. So for instance, Alex Morgan (I assume is one of the contract players) is getting paid while she is out having her baby.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Actually, the women are physically inferior, they are weaker, slower, can't jump as high or kick as far. They may perform as well in some finese aspects of the game and they have comparable conditioning. But they are indisputably athletically inferior. These are absolute facts that are objectively measurable. Even the worst member of the men's team would be a superstar if put into a women's game.

That said. You shouldn't say it because it is as the previous poster noted, it is a PR nightmare and green light for a workplace discrimination suit.

The point of all this is that all pay is not based on work output. Equal pay for equal work sounds reasonable. But equal pay for equal value is how television revenue is decided.

Just to clarify as I also agree that it is a fact that the 'average' professional male soccer player playing the USMNT team is going to be taller, heavier, stronger, and fast than the 'average' female soccer play playing for the USWNT. That is a biological fact for better or worse. The part that I was ticked about USSF's basically implied that the USMNT players work harder than the USWNT players, which is subjective and complete trash both legally and from a PR perspective. Cordeiro taking the blame for 'not reading' the legal submissions feels like became the scapegoat for this entire mess. There is something is rotten within USSF leadership, which is not a surprise to most people.

PS - Back in the day, I was in good shape and played a lot of pick-up soccer games with friends, including quite a few from the UConn women's team. I was strong enough to muscle around the Tietjen twins, just had to stay close to negate their better footwork when I was covering one of them. Sara Whalen, though, was handful. If I tried to stay close as she was faster than me and had way better footwork, she would drop her shoulder and bulldog past me. Had absolutely no fear.

 

[Waquoit]

"Work as hard" was an incredible gaffe. And so was not paying them equal per diem. I don't believe the women here are making their case in good faith. But the stupidity of those is charge in mind-boggling.

 

[Waquoit]

Like for Sara Whalen story

 

[Palatine]

Just to clarify as I also agree that it is a fact that the 'average' professional male soccer player playing the USMNTS team is going to be taller, heavier, stronger, and fast than the 'average' female soccer play playing for the USWNT. That is a biological fact for better or worse. The part that I was ticked about USSF's basically implied that the USMNT players work harder than the USWNT players, which i subjective and complete trash both legally and from a PR perspective. Cordeiro taking the blame for 'not reading' the legal submissions feels like became the scapegoat for this entire mess. There is something is rotten within USSF leadership, which is not a surprise to most people.

PS - Back in the day, I was in good shape and played a lot of pick-up soccer games with friends, including quite a few from the UConn women's team. I was strong enough to muscle around the Tietjen twins, just had to stay close to negate their better footwork when I was covering one of them. Sara Whalen, though, was handful. If I tried to stay close as she was fater than me and have way better footwork, she would drop her shoulder and bulldog past me. Had absolutely no fear.

Work can be measured. How much weight do you lift. Lifting 100 pounds 10X is half the work of lifting 200 pounds 10X. Miles run. Balls kicked. Hours practicing. Etc. People may not agree on all the measurements or criteria but it could be done.

 

[Waquoit]

Work can be measured. How much weight do you lift. Lifting 100 pounds 10X is half the work of lifting 200 pounds 10X. Miles run. Balls kicked. Hours practicing. Etc. People may not agree on all the measurements or criteria but it could be done.

Do you think the women would lag behind?

 

[Ban]

Test

 

[ZooCougar]

The Federation Wow. Berhalter gone, Cordeiro gone. Let’s get rid of the other Berhalter now.

 

[ZooCougar]

Jermaine Jones and His American Life

Jermaine Jones broadcasts much of his life in unfiltered fashion, and it's all on the table in an unfiltered talk.

www.si.com

 

[businesslawyer]

Work can be measured. How much weight do you lift. Lifting 100 pounds 10X is half the work of lifting 200 pounds 10X. Miles run. Balls kicked. Hours practicing. Etc. People may not agree on all the measurements or criteria but it could be done.

So in a men's basketball game, two players who jump their hardest the same number of times, do everything else equally, your absolutely ludicrous theory is the one who can jump higher is working harder? Boy you're dumb.

 

[Palatine]

So in a men's basketball game, two players who jump their hardest the same number of times, do everything else equally, your absolutely ludicrous theory is the one who can jump higher is working harder? Boy you're dumb.

If they weigh the same, the one who is jumping higher is doing more work. Absolutely

 

[SubbaBub]

Has nothing to do with athletic prowess and everything to do with how much money the women's game makes vs the men's and how much the USSF spends on each.

If the revenue from the men's team is double the women's, should USSF spend the same on both?

I would hazard a guess the USWNT is the highest paid women's national team in the world and the USMNT isn't the highest paid men's national team. There are a lot of ways to slice and dice this for negotiation purposes.

 

[BlueMAB]

Stop subsidizing MLS and pay the women

 

[outlaw]

disclaimer: I did not create this.

let’s have a little fun - who you got? MLS (left) or Abroad (right)?

Abroad wins 3-1, for me.

 

[ZooCougar]

Abroad would shred that back line.

 

[upstater]

Other than Pomykal, I have little hope that any of those MLS players are the future for the men's team.

 

[LIuconn]

I've seen a couple of these proposed 2022 lineups with Cannon or Robinson over Yedlin. Know Yedlin isn't exactly Marcelo, but are we sure those two are better?

And I'd put Reyna in over Weah

 

[meyers7]

View attachment 53005
disclaimer: I did not create this.

let’s have a little fun - who you got? MLS (left) or Abroad (right)?

Abroad wins 3-1, for me.

I'd take the MLS FW line, based on experience. Abroad has more talent, but they're really young. In another year or two (IF they actually get to play), they should overtake the MLS.
Defense, Abroad, but not by a lot. Not sold on Brooks/Miazga combo. And I'd probably switch Dest to the left and use Yedlin on the right. I'd like it better then.

However, the Abroad is light years ahead of the MLS . That's where Abroad would probably win.

 

[John]

Lots of rumors swirling that US Soccer is going to pull the plug on both Boys Development Academy and Girls Development Academy.

 

[upstater]

Lots of rumors swirling that US Soccer is going to pull the plug on both Boys Development Academy and Girls Development Academy.

What? Why? That would be ridiculous. The DA is light years ahead of other leagues.

 

[John]

What? Why? That would be ridiculous. The DA is light years ahead of other leagues.

COVID-19 provides opportunity for U.S. Soccer to shut down DA

COVID-19 has opened up an opportunity for U.S. Soccer to shutter the Development Academy.

www.soccerwire.com

 

[upstater]

I think there may be some

COVID-19 provides opportunity for U.S. Soccer to shut down DA

COVID-19 has opened up an opportunity for U.S. Soccer to shutter the Development Academy.

www.soccerwire.com

I think there may be some people hoping this is true because they are not in the DA.

The savings of $9m seems piddling, and I find the other reasons specious.

I talked to a UEFA-licensed coach here in the states recently that went into great depth about how the DA is doing things right. If we go back to the other way, I expect the rate of development to falter and for US Soccer to be set back.

 

[John]

I think there may be some


I think there may be some people hoping this is true because they are not in the DA.

The savings of $9m seems piddling, and I find the other reasons specious.

I talked to a UEFA-licensed coach here in the states recently that went into great depth about how the DA is doing things right. If we go back to the other way, I expect the rate of development to falter and for US Soccer to be set back.

I've been hearing several high end clubs have left DA for ECNL, this not to mention that MLS apparently wants to cut out the non-MLS weak sister clubs. I'm curious to see if there's fire to this smoke.

 

[outlaw]

I expect the rate of development to falter and for US Soccer to be set back.

modern USSF in a nutshell

 

[upstater]

I've been hearing several high end clubs have left DA for ECNL, this not to mention that MLS apparently wants to cut out the non-MLS weak sister clubs. I'm curious to see if there's fire to this smoke.

Why would they leave DA for ECNL? Easier competition? Then you're ceding ground and players to the DA teams in your region that can recruit players by offering better competition.

As for the MLS clubs, they are generally among the better clubs, but by and large they lose games to the non-MLS affiliated clubs. Our club finished above some MLS this year, they are ahead of NYC FC, New England Revs. You can see the standings here: U.S. Soccer Development Academy

Montreal Impact is very strong but otherwise... most of the teams are competitive with MLS.

Our club has also put 6 players into MLS in recent years.

 

[upstater]

While our club has said nothing about this, a private trainer who has been involved with 2 of the biggest DA clubs just emailed me and said it's true, so my skepticism was wrong:

"Wednesday, April 14th

Hello all! I hope this email finds you all safe and in good health.

With the recent news surrounding the Girls AND THE Boys Development Academies potentially folding, I'm reminded of all the opinions I've held on the DA over the years.

Especially regarding the boys, not many have been in support for the DA more than me dating back to the beginning back in 2007. Those feelings multiplied when I got to work with DA coaches and players full time in 2010 and I got a glimpse of what the DA really was. I actively wanted to develop players for that level. Even when I wasn't at a DA club yet, I would educate my players families about how THAT was the level to strive for. My support of the DA actually backfired on me back then while I was at a NON-DA club as my players would end up leaving for the DA clubs at U11 even though the DA at that point didn't start until U16. Brings back memories.

Below, are some of the thoughts and opinions on the DA including an epic fail of a prediction as well as my criticism of the United States Soccer Federation.

While the girls DA news wasn't exactly a shock, EVERYONE was blindsided about the news of the boys sides. There is a chance the boys side is salvaged but it won't look the same with the MLS teams leaving (again, not a shock for anyone). As of right now, I know of at least one boys DA club that has a conference call with both USSF and ECNL on Wednesday. I'll do my best to keep you guys posted if anything new develops."

 

[John]

I'm not surprised at GDA going by the wayside at all. At least in CT, the single GDA club has been a distant third to the two ECNL clubs in talent, results and college recruiting. I've heard it's similar in other states. Even BDA has shown cracks in CT. There's two BDA clubs in CT - one in particular cannot get out of its own way (dumpster fire), and the other is better but isn't considered that much better than the two Boy's ECNL clubs in CT. I realize CT is small potatoes in the youth soccer world though.