US Men

[baggerbob]

They'd get killed most years.

Consider this, for a while, Penny Taylor and Lauren Jackson were on the same Olympic Team. They are, at the very least, top 10 players in their prime. A 20 year old kid isn't beat that team. (And that's not to mention going against Tully..who 99 percent of college guards would struggle to bring the ball up the court against.)

It's not that surprising that Nurse struggled with the medal games started.

See what happened to Australia without Lauren, they struggled in the preliminary round, and were eliminated in the 1st knockout game. Down 16 to Japan late, showed they were not a good team, Cambage needs to come back and play in the WNBA, and get better, she didn't dominate when she was in the league.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Surprising Results, Not that the USA won, but the margin of Victory. Didn't see Team USA blowing out Serbia. Serbia got into foul trouble in the 1st quarter and didn't have the depth to keep up with Team USA. Best Game of the Olympics for Team USA. Congrats to Team USA.

At the end of the 1st half, a great team play Thompson, to George, to Irving, to Thompson, to Durant, to Anthony, and back to Durant for 3. Doug Collins described it as the play of the Olympics.

People (in general, not the two posters I am quoting) often dismiss Coach K's efforts, saying how easy it is to win with NBA players.

First, people forget the deplorable shape USA Basketball was in. Embarrassed by finishing 5th at the 2002 WC (held in the United States), then a disappointing bronze medal finish in 2004 (on a team with LeBron, Carmelo, etc.).
***Note - 2004 featured Larry Brown as the HC with Roy Williams as an assistant (both with UNC ties).

Coach K was brought in to right the ship. He instilled values of teamwork, leadership, and making sure the sum is greater than the individual parts. As Kobe Bryant put it, "Coach K thank YOU With your leadership we learned that playing for U.S is greater than playing for US."

After losing to Greece in the 2006 semis and finishing with a bronze medal, Coach K won the next 5 major international competitions (2008, 2012, 2016 Olympics; 2010, 2014 World Championships). No US men's basketball coach was ever able to do that. No US men's basketball coach has 3 Olympic titles (not even the great Henry Iba). In fact, no coach period has led teams to three Olympic gold medals. He has led the team to a record of 88-1 over the last ten years, including 76 straight victories, the most in US men's basketball history.

Second, since 1992, the world has caught up. International players are regular fixtures in the NBA. There are teams from other countries that have at least five or more players who have spent time in the NBA.

Third, the national teams of other countries play together and have done so for years. Team USA comes together a few weeks before the major tournaments. And the teams are very, very different. For Team USA, no one from the 2008 Olympic Team played on the 2010 World Championship Team. No one from the 2012 Olympic Team played on the 2014 World Championship Team.

A few posters commented that the US men do not play defense. First, as you see in the men's game much moreso than in the women's game, great offense and superior athleticism will beat great defense. Second, a hallmark of Coach K's teams is experimenting with different lineups in the early rounds and not focusing on the margin of victory (but just getting the victory to advance). In the later rounds (the elimination rounds), you saw a lot more adjustments and lineup mixes. This is why Team USA had an average margin of victory of 21 points in the elimination rounds.

Yes, I am a Dukie. I graduated from Duke. I am a huge Cameron Crazy. But at the same time, for people to dismiss what Coach K has accomplished is akin to people dismissing what Geno Auriemma has accomplished with UConn and the US Women's National Team.

 

[cordarone]

An anecdote about that loss in 2006: New to the international scene, the coaching staff invariably used player numbers during their interviews about their opponents (sound familiar?). That didn't go over so well with the other teams, particularly the Greeks. When they upset the Americans in the semis, they made a point of saying how disrespected they were, being just 'numbers' to the NBA stars.

That wasn't the reason the US lost, of course. But come the Beijing Games, you betcha Coach K et al were talking up how good players like Papaloukas and Jasikevičius were. Say what you will about Coach K, but he hasn't been to proud to learn from his mistakes and his teams by and large have been pretty good ambassadors of the sport and their country.

 

[Monte]

I love basketball. I watch wether it's men or women's, college or pros. But these "people" that say the women's game is boring haven't a clue. I'm watchin the men's US team right now and the don't play D and the one on one is ridiculous. The women play such a better team game. How can you not appreciate it!!??

I am writing this "after the fact." It's over--the men won. But my main point is to give credit to the MEN WHO WENT! There were plenty of excellent players who came up with excuses NOT to go. I praise the ones who went, and their patriotism, especially Durant who attended several other Olympic events, and was there to wave the American flag, and to cheer on the U.S. teams.

 

[mauconnfan]

I mean dribbling, shooting, passing, ability to run an offense, driving to the basket (which Kyrie clearly does better), footwork, post up ability, court vision , playmaking etc..I mean, when they do those skill drills, Sue Bird's time was better than Steve Nash and Jason Kidd's on the same "course." (Of course, this is just offense, if I was to talk about defense, Paul George is clearly king.)

I'm not stupid, anyone who says that a 5'11, 150lb Diana Taurasi could compete with 6'7, 205lb Klay Thompson, is absolutely nuts. That's just not understanding how much of an impact athleticism and size have on the game. What I'm saying is, give Taurasi the same skills with Klay Thompson's frame, and we're talking about someone in consideration for best player in the league. I mean, you can't look at Diana's shot and not think "man or woman, she's got one of the prettiest forms. Period."

I think someone compared it to boxing and different weight classes. Someone at the lowest weight class can't beat someone at the top. That doesn't mean that person at the bottom isn't a better tactician, doesn't know more moves etc..In skills alone, the lower weight can be better, but they'd still never actually beat the person in a higher weight class.

And all I'm saying, is these skills aren't gendered, women are just as capable of being as good at men at. That being said, I think it's rare that they are. In Taurasi and Bird, you have best point guard ever and best player ever on the woman's side. Generally speaking, on the Olympic Team, you've got peak skills. But women's basketball is even diluted in the pros, and there is a significant difference between someone like Diana, and the fifth best starter on the team..who probably doesn't have NBA quality skills. And that's just a matter of population. If you consider how many women play basketball. How many women practice basketball like men do etc...usually the dedication isn't there in the way that it is for men.

I would say, for basketball IQ..Sue and Diana have that over Kyrie, Klay, and Paul..although generally speaking, that isn't gendered either despite what some like to say. (AJ Price was one of the smartest Uconn players, men or women, in terms of basketball IQ. I can't tell you how many times I've watched him and really been impressed with his decision making. And it's rare to watch any player and go "that's a really smart player" instead of focusing on something else.)


I'm actually not one to criticize the men. (And I don't think I have in this thread.) I enjoy all styles of basketball. I don't think men's basketball is of higher quality, and I don't think women's basketball is of higher quality (when both are played right), I just think they are different and appreciate them for what they are. Paul George is one of my favorite players. A sports reporter said it best when they stated "At some point, I legitimately feel bad for the player Paul George is guarding."

These guys had very little practice time. They don't play the style of play that International players do, and of course when they are thrown together in a month, international teams are going to force them to play their style. They weren't put together too well. They were, for the most part, a very young team..with a tremendous amount of pressure. Either win..and that's what is expected of you..or don't, and be brutally criticized. (And I HATE that the only time the women's team gets any sort of attention is when people are criticizing the men.) And still, despite all of this, this team broke a win margin record in the gold medal game.

I couldn't be happier for them. They conducted themselves with class and worked hard, both in games and out in Rio. (No Ryan Lochte situations..) Most of them put egos aside. You could see the team actually getting better as the games went on. Basically, this team took a lot of undeserved crap..and it mostly came from people not understanding the circumstances, not anything these guys were doing.

Disagree a little but not enough to worry about it. You make some valid points bb. Key is they both won and we can proud of the way they represented. I do agree that sue and diana are easily 2 of the most intelligent womens hoops players I've ever seen, as far as the mens' though while I like AJ and agree to a point, I'd go with our own coach KO and Doron Sheffer, 2 of the smartest that have worn the men's uni. But hey, we get to see the 2016-17 teams real soon. Enjoy