US Men

[blackbird]

Your opinion I respect that. Men know fundamentals "most" are taught although I admit not the way it used to be. The athleticism and physicality of the men's game just takes too much away from seeing the "beauty" fans here describe. I guess like the game itself, beauty is in the eye of the beholder huh? lol

People like what they like, it's all good.

I enjoy every style of basketball. I look the almost ballet well constructed offense. I like watching players who are incredible at the ISO, PnR style offense (Kobe), and I like the blue collar knock you down defensive type game that the Big East was known for.

And like I said, I don't think it's the lack of "fundamentals" that are the problem. I think men are just taught a different style of play because most NBA teams play the ISO style..and quite frankly, most of these kids grew up idolizing Jordan and Kobe. I think they definitely could run the more international style of play (and, some do..Golden State is the prime and obvious example), but for a very long time that wasn't what was popular. Spectacular athletic plays, ISO, and PnR was popular. That has beauty and entertainment value as well.

Of course Diana is better at it than Irving. Diana spent the last 20 years of her life playing in that style..Irving probably has played this style a total of 4 weeks. You can't expect NBA players to be great at a style of play that most haven't really played. And I don't think it's fair to criticize the men for struggling a bit. Sure, they're more talented than everyone else, but this is a switch for them. (Ironically, I think Kobe was a huge reason the US men were able to play that style in the past two Olympics. He was a leader on the team that understood the international game because he grew up with it. So despite his ISO style, he go it.)

Where the men and women are different is that the men have the ability to play this style and have it be entertaining and work out well. The women really can't. Sure, some teams try, but I think that's when the product of women's basketball really declines. Women's basketball at it's best is the way Geno teaches the women to play. If more teams focused on that style, and we had all women running the international style of play instead of many women trying to emulate the men (when they don't have the athleticism to make the style spectacular), it would have a bigger base, IMO. As it would be a different type of basketball..one that would gain it's own fans and get appreciation. Because clearly, people do appreciate the style. I think they do a disservice to what their product could be and instead end up being a poor man's version of what the men do.

 

[superjohn]

To some degree, what bags said above. The men's style of play is different from the women's. Both the men and women in the Olympics in general and the USA teams in particular are first rate practitioners of their games. I don't support anyone who criticizes the skill level and style of play of the men (any more than I appreciate the criticism of the WNBA style vs. the college style that crops up at time). As a matter of taste, I prefer the women's game to the men's and the college to pros. But I recognize that the players I enjoy are not yet necessarily at the top of their game (for those that go on) and certainly could never do what the men do because they are not built that way. That said, it doesn't mean the men are "better", just different.

Now on the specifics of this Olympics, I do think that the women play a more cohesive team game, for a variety of reasons including the coach's choice and their mutual familiarity (with the coach and each other). What all this gets one, I'm not sure. Everyone will most likely continue to enjoy the style they like.

I appreciate the post and agree that the styles are very different, so different that I agree with Geno when he says they aren't playing the same sport. You say the men aren't "better" they are just "different." Other people in the thread took shots at the men's game and even said the women's team is the best backcourt in the Olympics knowing full well Kyrie Irving and Klay Thompson play in the Olympics. Now any comparison with the women's and men's game is just silly. You say the men aren't better but it sounds like you understand the men would beat the women by any score they wanted to, if they decided they wanted to win by 100 they would win by 100. The UCONN women are amazing but they wouldn't beat the boys Sacred Heart high school team in Waterbury. That's in no way a slight to the UConn women, it's just the way it is. I love watching the women but never understand why so many of their fans try and compare them to the men's game and usually in so doing they take shots at the men's game. It annoys Geno as well yet some of the fans continue to do it.

 

[superjohn]

Sorry, I don't buy that.

Australia had no problem running that type of offense against the United States. The US men don't run a pretty offense against against easier teams, and likewise, you don't give other women's teams enough credit. (The US women consistently beat a team that had two of the top 5 players in the world going against them, in Jackson and Taylor). Obviously talent is necessary to run a pretty offense (although, I'd argue it's more important to have a well constructed team..), but that's not an issue for the US men.

The men's game doesn't have that requirement. The men's game went in that basketball direction. The International game has repeatedly proven that the well played floored game can more than compete with the creativity of the NBA. (As have a few NBA teams).

Now, again..I'm not saying one is better than the other. I have my preference. That doesn't make what I like better, it just makes it what I like. But I think it's obvious that the top women (as there is still a talent disparity, even in the professional game. ) Understand and play this type of game better than most men do..because that's how they learned to play basketball. (So it makes sense.) And there is a variety of NBA players who have said the same thing.

edit: Skill wise, the USA women absolutely do have the best backcourt. Offensive skill wise, Kyrie and PG aren't even close to Bird and Taurasi. Athletically, PG andKyrie are far superior and would kill them in a game of two on two. (And I shouldn't even have to say that) But when you talk about better passers, shooters, ball handlers, court awareness, playmaking ability...etc..it's not close.

And yes, I'm comparing what Bird and Taurasi do against women to what Kyrie and PG do against men..because Bird and Taurasi are women, and their skills should be judged based on what they can do athletically against women, just as Kyrie and PG's skills should be judged against men. I'm saying it comes down to a difference in athleticism, not skill.

Bird and Taurasi would laugh their arses off if they heard fans here were arguing they are more skilled basketball players than Kyrie and Klay.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Bird and Taurasi would laugh their arses off if they heard fans here were arguing they are more skilled basketball players than Kyrie and Klay.

 

[easttexastrash]

Add LeBron and Steph and this thread would have never existed.

Subtract Bird and Taurasi and there might be a different opinion of the women's team, especially since Bird is the only US guard who knows how to get everyone involved. We would be stuck with selfish point guards like Whalen, Sims and Diggins.

 

[alexrgct]

This isn't about MBB vs. WBB. This is akin to weight classes. A mediocre heavyweight boxer could knock the ever-loving crap out of the top middleweight, but that same middleweight could be better "pound for pound."

Oftentimes, the men win Gold and look great doing it. Think about how great the 2008 and 2012 Gold medal games against Spain were. However, Kobe Bryant and LeBron James respectively made the difference in those games, and they're not on this incarnation of team Team USA. Meanwhile, other top men's players like Steph Curry, Unibrow, and Russell Westbrook are also absent. On the women's side, top players like Maya Moore, Bittney Griner, and so on, are on the roster and in Rio.

In short, within their respective weight classes, the best middleweights are fighting, and the best heavyweights are not. As is, it's going to be much easier for a team with Boogie Cousins to get knocked out. In 2004, it was about going to Greece post-9/11, and now I'm hearing Zika hysteria. Maybe that's why we don't have the rosters we would hope for.

Or maybe Coach K and Company are playing a little possum here. Let's hope and pray...

 

[easttexastrash]

This isn't about MBB vs. WBB. This is akin to weight classes. A mediocre heavyweight boxer could knock the ever-loving crap out of the top middleweight, but that same middleweight could be better "pound for pound."

Oftentimes, the men win Gold and look great doing it. Think about how great the 2008 and 2012 Gold medal games against Spain were. However, Kobe Bryant and LeBron James respectively made the difference in those games, and they're not on this incarnation of team Team USA. Meanwhile, other top men's players like Steph Curry, Unibrow, and Russell Westbrook are also absent. On the women's side, top players like Maya Moore, Bittney Griner, and so on, are on the roster.

In short, within their respective weight classes, the best middleweights are fighting, and the best heavyweights are not. As is, it's going to be much easier for a team with Boogie Cousins to get knocked out. In 2004, it was about going to Greece post-9/11, and now I'm hearing Zika hysteria. Maybe that's why we don't have the rosters we would hope for.

Or maybe Coach K and Company are playing a little possum here. Let's hope and pray...

Maybe Coach K just doesn't have a clue what he is doing and Geno should coach the men and the women.

 

[alexrgct]

Maybe Coach K just doesn't have a clue what he is doing and Geno should coach the men and the women.

Coach K has won two Golds in the olympics and two FIBA tournaments. He has earned the right.

 

[Kibitzer]

The USA Basketball men are bigger, stronger and, yes, better basketball players individually than their female counterparts.

To which I say: So what! And add that misogynistic comments ("UConn Women would be beaten by Sacred Heart Boys in Waterbury") reveal the ignorance of the poster.

The UConn women and, by logical extension, USA women, by necessity must rely on finesse instead of overwhelming athleticism. For me, it's a joy to watch.

I of course like the men's game and I hope that they too bring home the gold.

 

[superjohn]

The USA Basketball men are bigger, stronger and, yes, better basketball players individually than their female counterparts.

To which I say: So what! And add that misogynistic comments ("UConn Women would be beaten by Sacred Heart Boys in Waterbury") reveal the ignorance of the poster.

The UConn women and, by logical extension, USA women, by necessity must rely on finesse instead of overwhelming athleticism. For me, it's a joy to watch.

I of course like the men's game and I hope that they too bring home the gold.

How on earth is my comment misogynistic and ignorant?

 

[Siestakeyfan]

The women's team has probably 11 of the best 12 American Players.... while the Men's team has maybe 4 of the top 12 ?? I dont plan on watching a second of the women's games..... but I'll definitely tune in to the men's semis and finals.

Men DO NOT PLAY Quality DEFENSE or other IMPORTANT parts of Basketball ! JUST LOOK AT ME Macho and SCORE Mediocre defense !

 

[Stainmaster]

Men DO NOT PLAY Quality DEFENSE or other IMPORTANT parts of Basketball ! JUST LOOK AT ME Macho and SCORE Mediocre defense !

Very astute analysis.

 

[Kaizen]

Men DO NOT PLAY Quality DEFENSE or other IMPORTANT parts of Basketball ! JUST LOOK AT ME Macho and SCORE Mediocre defense !

Very skillful analysis ...

 

[triaddukefan]

Men DO NOT PLAY Quality DEFENSE or other IMPORTANT parts of Basketball ! JUST LOOK AT ME Macho and SCORE Mediocre defense !

 

[HGN]

We also have to appreciate the special chemistry that Geno has with the current team; 4 UConn starters, and 5 altogether. The rest (esp. Tamika, BG, and EDD) have reverence for what Geno's accomplished because they all very aware of UConn for the 4 years they were in college.

That's not true of the men's game. How many Duke players? How many even spent more than a year in college, and how many of them thought about Duke during that year? Coach K has no chance to really express a philosophy and draw on past relations with them to mold them to that philosophy.

Good points.....All.

 

[phil sampieri]

I love basketball. I watch wether it's men or women's, college or pros. But these "people" that say the women's game is boring haven't a clue. I'm watchin the men's US team right now and the don't play D and the one on one is ridiculous. The women play such a better team game. How can you not appreciate it!!??

Ditto. There is no beauty in dribble,dribble, dribble shoot. Basket ball in it's purest form was meant to be played the way the women play.

 

[UConnTrumbull]

To me the only factor is competition. The US women have no, and I mean zero competition. The US men, while heavy favorites still have SOME competition. You can debate who plays nicer however much you want. But at the end of the day Geno and his crew won't need to do much more than show up at the arena to get their gold medal.

P.S. I'm not one of those Dan Shaugnessy types. You can't apologize for being great but this comparison of the women's game to the men's game is silly.

 

[Justavisitor]

Add LeBron and Steph and this thread would have never existed.

Subtract Bird and Taurasi and there might be a different opinion of the women's team, especially since Bird is the only US guard who knows how to get everyone involved. We would be stuck with selfish point guards like Whalen, Sims and Diggins.

Diggins being a great teammate is what led to the success of Notre Dame. Scoring guard does not mean selfish guard.

 

[Justavisitor]

To me the only factor is competition. The US women have no, and I mean zero competition. The US men, while heavy favorites still have SOME competition. You can debate who plays nicer however much you want. But at the end of the day Geno and his crew won't need to do much more than show up at the arena to get their gold medal.

P.S. I'm not one of those Dan Shaugnessy types. You can't apologize for being great but this comparison of the women's game to the men's game is silly.

EXACTLY! The level of competition isn't even close.

 

[wallman]

IMO the problem with the men is passing the ball, too many one on one players and not enough who can really pass and get the whole team involved. How many times do you see the ball being dribbled first. Their PG Irving who I enjoy watching for the Cavs is a scoring PG but he played better passing ball along side Lebron this year. Other than Irving who is known for their passing, they have none in the paint who is known for their passing. Durant will pass but then he never touches the ball again as it is never gets passed again.

 

[Justavisitor]

Men DO NOT PLAY Quality DEFENSE or other IMPORTANT parts of Basketball ! JUST LOOK AT ME Macho and SCORE Mediocre defense !

Very inaccurate observation.

 

[easttexastrash]

Wow!!! The US men looked horrible today.

 

[Kibitzer]

Wow!!! The US men looked horrible today.

Maybe so, but they won. One reason they did -- finally -- was to get more shots for Kevin Durant. Prior to today KD was averaging only 9 shots per game as the team was grinding out ugly wins. Against Argentina it was No More Mister Nice Guy as he sparked the team with his frequent and deadly shooting (7 for 9 on treys).

And hey, how about some props to these guys for supporting women gymnasts and both beach and basketball players. And thank goodness they didn't hail any gypsy cabs.

 

[zyron]

Ditto. There is no beauty in dribble,dribble, dribble shoot. Basket ball in it's purest form was meant to be played the way the women play.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Very inaccurate observation.

most people that dont play basketball do not under the mens game... the CYO in the 50's dont count