Urban Meyer Suspended 3 Games For Role In Zach Smith Domestic Violence Probe | Page 5 | The Boneyard

Urban Meyer Suspended 3 Games For Role In Zach Smith Domestic Violence Probe

champs99and04 said:
I was with you until the last three sentences. That's an awfully grim interpretation of a situation that's a lot easier to diagnose from a distance.

Do you really think, in his full consciousness, that he tolerates abuse of any kind? Or do you think it's more likely that he's unfamiliar with the nuance you outlined at the beginning of your post?
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If you want to give Meyer the benefit of the doubt so be it, but there have been a plethora of high profile cases chronicling the difficulty of proving these cases in court. Perhaps most notably, and certainly within Meyer's own area of interest (football), the Warren Moon case, which was splashed all over the media for months. As an aside, John Healy, the Fort Bend Co. DA who prosecuted Moon unsuccessfully, is a UCONN alum.

I find it hard to swallow that Meyer isn't aware of the difference between factual allegations and proving these cases beyond a reasonable doubt in court, especially with uncooperative family member witnesses involved. It took many years for PA prosecutors to decide they could get a conviction in the Jerry Sandusky case. That doesn't mean he didn't commit the acts as a factual matter many years before he got convicted.
 
Alibi Ike said:
With Meyer as coach Ohio State will continue to have some dark clouds hovering over their football program.

That is in addition to their Alarming wrestling program scandal.

Good Lord.
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Cute attempt to get around the ban on political comments. Virtually all sports were affected, not just wrestling.
 
UConnNick said:
If you want to give Meyer the benefit of the doubt so be it, but there have been a plethora of high profile cases chronicling the difficulty of proving these cases in court. Perhaps most notably, and certainly within Meyer's own area of interest (football), the Warren Moon case, which was splashed all over the media for months. As an aside, John Healy, the Fort Bend Co. DA who prosecuted Moon unsuccessfully, is a UCONN alum.

I find it hard to swallow that Meyer isn't aware of the difference between factual allegations and proving these cases beyond a reasonable doubt in court, especially with uncooperative family member witnesses involved. It took many years for PA prosecutors to decide they could get a conviction in the Jerry Sandusky case. That doesn't mean he didn't commit the acts as a factual matter many years before he got convicted.
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I get all that but in this case you did have a bold, fully cooperating EX - who called the police nine times. The police had immediate access and shared with the prosecutors office whatever might be considered evidence. If it was a cover up , it was a massive one.
 
I don’t get why top flight schools tolerate this crap. Meyer needs OSU more than OSU needs Meyer. They have won championships without him in the past, and they will in the future. I get it when Louisville, Miami, and other fringe schools cut corners. But OSU should be able to win football games without sacrificing their integrity.
 
UConnNick said:
If you want to give Meyer the benefit of the doubt so be it, but there have been a plethora of high profile cases chronicling the difficulty of proving these cases in court. Perhaps most notably, and certainly within Meyer's own area of interest (football), the Warren Moon case, which was splashed all over the media for months. As an aside, John Healy, the Fort Bend Co. DA who prosecuted Moon unsuccessfully, is a UCONN alum.

I find it hard to swallow that Meyer isn't aware of the difference between factual allegations and proving these cases beyond a reasonable doubt in court, especially with uncooperative family member witnesses involved. It took many years for PA prosecutors to decide they could get a conviction in the Jerry Sandusky case. That doesn't mean he didn't commit the acts as a factual matter many years before he got convicted.
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I think he recognizes that there are different thresholds for proving something in court versus determining whether somebody is fit to lead young men. What I'm not sure he recognizes is how difficult it is to even make an arrest in domestic violence disputes. That means he essentially had no objective information to base his decision on beyond the allegation itself.

If he's required to report any allegation to administration (which I believe he is), then they would be justified in firing him. There is a reason they make those particular reads as simple as possible for coaches - they want to eliminate the possibility that bias or loyalty influences their decision to help a victim. Clearly, that process failed. Whether it failed because Meyer misinterpreted the protocol or because OSU failed to communicate his responsibilities, I don't know.

Meyer doesn't come out of this looking good by any stretch. I don't like him, I've never liked him, and this certainly doesn't make me like him more. I just don't see any of this as some egregious moral failing. None of it adds up. Why would he risk everything to keep a WR coach? It's not even like he's the one who would have had to make the decision. He just had to follow the protocol. The entire system is structured to preserve his innocence, both personally and professionally. Worst case scenario, he cut corners you can't cut to show trust in a friend. I'd almost respect it if I wasn't so sure it was out of stupidity rather than loyalty (as he proved by throwing him under the bus the other day).

You'd be surprised by how often the worst people tend to be the most self-righteous. Meyer strikes me as one of those guys. His commitment to respecting women is almost certainly dripping with misogynistic undertones, but that doesn't mean he's gonna chill as someone abuses their wife. I'd actually expect him to be the sort of pathological virtue-mongerer who wants to live in a society where people who steal have their hands cut off and everyone who doesn't read the Bible is punished by an eternity in hell.

If people want a scapegoat they probably got the right guy, maybe even for some of the right reasons, but with the wrong guiding thought process.
 
BNich said:
This disgusts me. 3 game suspension. Can't be with his team until Sept. 3, what 10 days? Such a joke! Not once did he apologize to the victim. Unreal.
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I don’t want to blame the “victim” but it’s clear that some who have investigated don’t see Ms Smith in that category. Maybe eventually some of that stuff will publicly come out that people out there are talking about behind the scenes or perhaps it’s not one of those things - where we can go where the facts take us since those people will then be accused of attacking the “victim” and who needs that label? Like most dysfunctional male/female situations, its complicated from what I am hearing and perhaps one of the investigators will get frustrated, break protocol and spill the beans?
 
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Jimmy Serrano said:
I cannot fathom how stupid one person (let alone two) has to be to ring up a $600 bill on the state dime at a strip club.
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While we all can agree these people spending business travel money for strip clubs is wrong, the book "Billion Dollar Ball" documents that many of the Power Five now operate their athletic departments as separate entities and they would not legally have to comply with any restrictions common to state government.
Edit: You mentioned how stupid they were and what they did may speak more about how the money involved in these Power Five schools may result in arrogance overpowering intellect.
 
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champs99and04 said:
I think he recognizes that there are different thresholds for proving something in court versus determining whether somebody is fit to lead young men. What I'm not sure he recognizes is how difficult it is to even make an arrest in domestic violence disputes. That means he essentially had no objective information to base his decision on beyond the allegation itself.

If he's required to report any allegation to administration (which I believe he is), then they would be justified in firing him. There is a reason they make those particular reads as simple as possible for coaches - they want to eliminate the possibility that bias or loyalty influences their decision to help a victim. Clearly, that process failed. Whether it failed because Meyer misinterpreted the protocol or because OSU failed to communicate his responsibilities, I don't know.

Meyer doesn't come out of this looking good by any stretch. I don't like him, I've never liked him, and this certainly doesn't make me like him more. I just don't see any of this as some egregious moral failing. None of it adds up. Why would he risk everything to keep a WR coach? It's not even like he's the one who would have had to make the decision. He just had to follow the protocol. The entire system is structured to preserve his innocence, both personally and professionally. Worst case scenario, he cut corners you can't cut to show trust in a friend. I'd almost respect it if I wasn't so sure it was out of stupidity rather than loyalty (as he proved by throwing him under the bus the other day).

You'd be surprised by how often the worst people tend to be the most self-righteous. Meyer strikes me as one of those guys. His commitment to respecting women is almost certainly dripping with misogynistic undertones, but that doesn't mean he's gonna chill as someone abuses their wife. I'd actually expect him to be the sort of pathological virtue-mongerer who wants to live in a society where people who steal have their hands cut off and everyone who doesn't read the Bible is punished by an eternity in hell.

If people want a scapegoat they probably got the right guy, maybe even for some of the right reasons, but with the wrong guiding thought process.
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Meyer's "guiding thought process" appears to be covering up some woeful behavior because Smith is the grandson of former OSU head football coach Earle Bruce. Loyalty to the crown is always paramount.
 
Chief00 said:
I get all that but in this case you did have a bold, fully cooperating EX - who called the police nine times. The police had immediate access and shared with the prosecutors office whatever might be considered evidence. If it was a cover up , it was a massive one.
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In the football-crazy capitals of CFB, it's never a stretch to believe that they will protect their own at all costs. There are too many examples, all the way back to the 1966 so-called "Game of the Century" between Mich. St. and ND in East Lansing. The night before during a pregame riot in DT E. Lansing, the Spartans' meal ticket Bubba Smith got arrested and thrown in jail. Normally he would have had to wait until Monday a.m. for an arraignment hearing to get released. He magically got released on Sat. a.m. in more than enough time to play in the game, while his fellow Fri. night arrestees patiently waited in their cells until Mon. a.m. to be arraigned.
 
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UConnNick said:
In the football-crazy capitals of CFB, it's never a stretch to believe that they will protect their own at all costs. There are too many examples, all the way back to the 1966 so-called "Game of the Century" between Mich. St. and ND in East Lansing. The night before during a pregame riot in DT E. Lansing, the Spartans' meal ticket Bubba Smith got arrested and thrown in jail. Normally he would have had to wait until Monday a.m. for an arraignment hearing to get released. He magically got released on Sat. a.m. in more than enough time to play in the game, while his fellow Fri. night arrestees patiently waited in their cells until Mon. a.m. to be arraigned.
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Wow - I watched that game with my Dad, but was too young to know that side story. Bubba Smith was a great college player, as I recall, but not so great an NFL player.
 
Chief00 said:
Wow - I watched that game with my Dad, but was too young to know that side story. Bubba Smith was a great college player, as I recall, but not so great an NFL player.
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I was a youngster watching that game as well. I didn't read about the Bubba Smith story until fairly recently. That's more proof of how entrenched the fix can be in these mega CFB towns. They were able to keep the media quiet about it back in those days.

Bubba may not have enjoyed a lot of NFL success, but he was smart enough to become an actor and Lite beer commercial star.
 
UConnNick said:
Bubba Smith got arrested and thrown in jail. Normally he would’ve had to wait until Monday but magically got released on Saturday in more than enough time to play in the game
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Like it or not, if it had been a star UConn player before our big game who amongst us (other than a media person trying to be provocative) would have condemned a similar move?
 
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RSTuthill said:
I think there is a line to be drawn, that is all. There is a fundamental difference between this case and Penn State.
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And that line is??

He was aware the guy had issues but didn’t report them and kept protecting him. The scope of the crime might be different but that might just be that Smith hasn’t been at it as long.
 
Nostical said:
Like it or not, if it had been a star UConn player before our big game who amongst us (other than a media person trying to be provocative) would have condemned a similar move?
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True, but we're apparently not always smart about that. For those of us old enough to remember the infamous slowdown game vs. URI for the Yankee Conference BB title in 1970, we were up 14-11 at halftime and won it 35-32. Three of our starters were arrested for theft, I believe it was, during the week prior to the game. Playing Dean Smith's four corners offense was our only chance. With superior talent, Rhody got frustrated and tried to speed up the game on each of their possessions, playing into our hands.

Eventually I think the charges were dropped against all three players, but at least two of them didn't play in that game. I remember watching it on TV.
 
freescooter said:
And that line is??

He was aware the guy had issues but didn’t report them and kept protecting him. The scope of the crime might be different but that might just be that Smith hasn’t been at it as long.
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The Penn State abuse occurred in the work environment. In most cases on campus even. Private lives are just that, private. And privacy is protected. For private lives to affect professional life, it is paramount that due process is executed unless there is an imminent danger to those in the care of the institution. That is where I would draw the line.
 
RSTuthill said:
The Penn State abuse occurred in the work environment. In most cases on campus even. Private lives are just that, private. And privacy is protected. For private lives to affect professional life, it is paramount that due process is executed unless there is an imminent danger to those in the care of the institution. That is where I would draw the line.
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The thing that jumps off the page about the two cases is: one involves an older adult authority figure preying on pre-teen and young teen boys from troubled homes while the other involves two young adult college graduates, one of whom was smart enough and self aware enough to take photos of her injuries but apparently chose not to contact the police immediately after the alleged infliction of those injuries when their nature and severity would have been most readily apparent.

Has she stated why? This isn't 1930 and abuse cases are regularly in the news. She has parents and others she could have gone to immediately after the injuries were incurred, yet she didn't. If her parents or others talked her out of it that's pretty sad.
 
champs99and04 said:
I think he recognizes that there are different thresholds for proving something in court versus determining whether somebody is fit to lead young men. What I'm not sure he recognizes is how difficult it is to even make an arrest in domestic violence disputes. That means he essentially had no objective information to base his decision on beyond the allegation itself.

If he's required to report any allegation to administration (which I believe he is), then they would be justified in firing him. There is a reason they make those particular reads as simple as possible for coaches - they want to eliminate the possibility that bias or loyalty influences their decision to help a victim. Clearly, that process failed. Whether it failed because Meyer misinterpreted the protocol or because OSU failed to communicate his responsibilities, I don't know.

Meyer doesn't come out of this looking good by any stretch. I don't like him, I've never liked him, and this certainly doesn't make me like him more. I just don't see any of this as some egregious moral failing. None of it adds up. Why would he risk everything to keep a WR coach? It's not even like he's the one who would have had to make the decision. He just had to follow the protocol. The entire system is structured to preserve his innocence, both personally and professionally. Worst case scenario, he cut corners you can't cut to show trust in a friend. I'd almost respect it if I wasn't so sure it was out of stupidity rather than loyalty (as he proved by throwing him under the bus the other day).

You'd be surprised by how often the worst people tend to be the most self-righteous. Meyer strikes me as one of those guys. His commitment to respecting women is almost certainly dripping with misogynistic undertones, but that doesn't mean he's gonna chill as someone abuses their wife. I'd actually expect him to be the sort of pathological virtue-mongerer who wants to live in a society where people who steal have their hands cut off and everyone who doesn't read the Bible is punished by an eternity in hell.

If people want a scapegoat they probably got the right guy, maybe even for some of the right reasons, but with the wrong guiding thought process.
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Meyer 'sincerely' apologizes to Courtney Smith

"I sincerely apologize," Meyer wrote. "I was taught at a very young age that if I ever hit a woman, I would be kicked out of the house and never welcomed back. I have the same rule in my house and in the Football Program at Ohio State. Over the years, we have worked hard to educate and remind our coaches and players of the seriousness of relationship violence. I understand my lack of more action in this situation has raised concerns about this commitment."

Nailed it.
 
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huskymedic said:
Friday afternoon news dump:
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He had all sorts of time to say these things the first time around. Now he says it when the media and America are breathing down his neck for his BS news conference on Wednesday. What a joke. 10 days away from his team and suspended the first 3 games. Such a disgrace. More needs to be done.
 
Notice how he still refuses to take responsibility for anything that happened in this statement. He merely admits that his lack of action "raised concerns about this commitment." Like this was all one big misunderstanding.
 
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Chief00 said:
I get all that but in this case you did have a bold, fully cooperating EX - who called the police nine times. The police had immediate access and shared with the prosecutors office whatever might be considered evidence. If it was a cover up , it was a massive one.
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And FWIW - her own mother doesn't believe her.

Barstool Sports
 
J187Money said:
And FWIW - her own mother doesn't believe her.

Barstool Sports
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Indeed, as I mentioned maybe a week ago, I was hearing similar things from my sources. It’s well known by people involved that she is a complete nut case when she drinks or loses her temper - which she did often. It was about wanting increased support payments and her new boyfriend. Basically, Zack’s got fired for marrying a nut and dropping his kids off in the driveway not the curb. The prosecutors reviewed the texts in contexts of facts and interviews they did and came up with nothing. So enough of that nonsense.
JMick and Huskymedic look pretty silly now questioning the Chief’s sources last week. They got caught up in a Duke Lacrosse like media nonsense wind - while Chief was trying to keep the Forum sane with facts.
 
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huskymedic said:
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The investigation is over. The timing may seem suspect but a document retention period of a year for text messages is prudent and conservative. One of the keys is did he apply it consistently and it appears he did.
 
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