Urban Meyer Suspended 3 Games For Role In Zach Smith Domestic Violence Probe

[huskymedic]

This was included in the report to demonstrate Urban monitored the program and assistant coaches and in this case took action, etc. For OSU and Urban it’s all good.

Tom Herman wasn’t mentioned in the report...

 

[Chief00]

The issue at the center of this is that Urban didn't communicate information to his higher-ups that theoretically anyone could have communicated to those people. More broadly, it's a matter of evidence. What cleared Zach Smith in the eyes of the police should not have cleared him at Ohio State.

The problem is that it's pretty natural to think that if the police know about something, then there's really no need for the football coach to know. The whole point of being a self-reporter, after all, is to protect people. To the extent that Urban failed in that assignment is a reflection of the larger failure of our legal system to protect women. But that's not as fun as it is to nail an all-time great football coach to the cross for now apparently being a despicable human being.

Simple question - How do you know the police and prosecutors office failed to protect women by how they examined the evidence and the conclusions they made about the evidence?

 

[Chief00]

Tom Herman wasn’t mentioned in the report...

Never said he was. You need to read better. Just said it was an example of Urban monitoring assistant coaches.

 

[huskymedic]

Never said he was. You need to read better. Just said it was an example of Urban monitoring assistant coaches.

Yeah... Urban did a great job monitoring his WR Coach. You’re still defending him after reading the report in detail?

 

[Chief00]

Yeah... Urban did a great job monitoring his WR Coach.

That why they put it in, in my opinion. It was exculpatory evidence to support the decision.

I think you are letting your personal feelings about some of the players in this saga impact your judgement. At some point, you may have to take a step back and reevaluate if your initial assumptions were correct.

 

[Stainmaster]

Yeah... Urban did a great job monitoring his WR Coach. You’re still defending him after reading the report in detail?

Of course he is. He has a cultural blindspot when it comes to the issue in question.

 

[RSTuthill]

I sort of get your point except that this is s high profile public job that has specific rules about reporting these types of things. I mean, if you carry your case to it’s logical extreme you could argue Joe Paterno did nothing wrong. He wasn’t responsible for for the monster on his staff who by all accounts did his job a defensive coordinator quite well. Same with Wilson. Good coach who just happened to beat his wife. Of well. No Urban’s problem.

It is arguable that if he happened to work in a back office for Aetna and he wasn’t arrested his bosses aren’t responsible. On the other hand if he’s an on-air personality on Chanel 3 they might take a different view.

I think there is a line to be drawn, that is all. There is a fundamental difference between this case and Penn State.

 

[CTMike]

At some point, you may have to take a step back and reevaluate if your initial assumptions were correct.

Like assuming our AD screwed up our TV negotiations resulting in every football game starting at 11:11am?

 

[huskymedic]

I think you are letting your personal feelings about some of the players in this saga impact your judgement. At some point, you may have to take a step back and reevaluate if your initial assumptions were correct.

I have no personal feelings about the “players in this saga” - I don’t know any of them and their actions/inactions do not impact me or anyone close to me. They are all slimey. You are an outlier here.

Urban still has his job because if they fired him, they had to fire Smith too and they aren’t prepared to deal with that impact.

 

[UConnNick]

I dunno, since when did a boss become responsible for what happens in a subordinate's home? I mean, really. Yeah, maybe if law enforcement tells the boss that there is an ongoing investigation a suspension is warranted. But otherwise?

Any average person usually knows that domestic abuse cases are very hard to prove (see Warren Moon, Fort Bend Co. TX). Therefore, where seemingly credible allegations exist, there's usually fire. Waiting for a law enforcement conviction before taking any punitive employment action against a perp, with morals clauses in everybodys' employment contracts, is totally insane. OSU has reporting policies and internal investigation procedures in place. They should have been utilized, irrespective of whether or not there were any criminal charges or indictments. Meyer clearly was shielding Earle Bruce's grandson and enabling him to continue abusing his wife. You can draw your own conclusions about what kind of person Meyer is. His wife as well, who doesn't appear particularly credible either.

 

[Chief00]

Any average person usually knows that domestic abuse cases are very hard to prove (see Warren Moon, Fort Bend Co. TX). Therefore, where seemingly credible allegations exist, there's usually fire. Waiting for a law enforcement conviction before taking any punitive employment action against a perp, with morals clauses in everybodys' employment contracts, is totally insane. OSU has reporting policies and internal investigation procedures in place. They should have been utilized, irrespective of whether or not there were any criminal charges or indictments. Meyer clearly was shielding Earle Bruce's grandson and enabling him to continue abusing his wife. You can draw your own conclusions about what kind of person Meyer is. His wife as well, who doesn't appear particularly credible either.

Lots of assumptions - “seemingly credible” - but they were all investigated criminally and then through the employer investigation and this is what we got. Or, if you are right, all of the BOT, President and outside investigators are basically involved in one big conspiracy?

 

[Chief00]

Urban still has his job because if they fired him, they had to fire Smith too and they aren’t prepared to deal with that impact.

This may or may not be true but you and I have no clue. So why do you say it like its fact?
Just maybe their decision was based on the facts uncovered in the investigation rather than all these bad motivates you ascribe to people you never met or know anything about.

 

[UConnNick]

Lots of assumptions - “seemingly credible” - but they were all investigated criminally and then through the employer and this is what we got.

When were they ever investigated through the employer, until now after the fact? It's difficult to conduct a credible internal investigation through the university process when nobody ever reports anything that happened in real time. Now phone records have been destroyed and who knows what other evidence is gone? It's now nothing but a massive cover up, as in who knew and when did they know it?

You're a Meyer apologist, which makes you a domestic abuse apologist.

 

[champs99and04]

Any average person usually knows that domestic abuse cases are very hard to prove (see Warren Moon, Fort Bend Co. TX). Therefore, where seemingly credible allegations exist, there's usually fire. Waiting for a law enforcement conviction before taking any punitive employment action against a perp, with morals clauses in everybodys' employment contracts, is totally insane. OSU has reporting policies and internal investigation procedures in place. They should have been utilized, irrespective of whether or not there were any criminal charges or indictments. Meyer clearly was shielding Earle Bruce's grandson and enabling him to continue abusing his wife. You can draw your own conclusions about what kind of person Meyer is. His wife as well, who doesn't appear particularly credible either.

I was with you until the last three sentences. That's an awfully grim interpretation of a situation that's a lot easier to diagnose from a distance.

Do you really think, in his full consciousness, that he tolerates abuse of any kind? Or do you think it's more likely that he's unfamiliar with the nuance you outlined at the beginning of your post?

 

[Chief00]

When were they ever investigated through the employer, until now after the fact? It's difficult to conduct a credible internal investigation through the university process when nobody ever reports anything that happened in real time. Now phone records have been destroyed and who knows what other evidence is gone? It's now nothing but a massive cover up, as in who knew and when did they know it?

You're a Meyer apologist, which makes you a domestic abuse apologist.

The police investigation was done in real time on Smith and the results speak for themselves. You obviously did not read my earlier posts because of course I am against domestic abuse - However are you? Because you seem to intermingle the cases that are legitimate with a case like this one - where there is no known evidence of abuse - which is a crime. The prosecutors office did review texts in real time from the Smiths.

 

[Chief00]

I was with you until the last three sentences. That's an awfully grim interpretation of a situation that's a lot easier to diagnose from a distance.

Do you really think, in his full consciousness, that he tolerates abuse of any kind? Or do you think it's more likely that he's unfamiliar with the nuance you outlined at the beginning of your post?

He’s talking in hyperbole.

 

[BNich]

This disgusts me. 3 game suspension. Can't be with his team until Sept. 3, what 10 days? Such a joke! Not once did he apologize to the victim. Unreal.

 

[UConnNick]

The police investigation was done in real time on Smith and the results speak for themselves. You obviously did not read my earlier posts because of course I am against domestic abuse - However are you? Because you seem to intermingle the cases that are legitimate with a case like this one - where there is no known evidence of abuse - which is a crime. The prosecutors office did review texts in real time from the Smiths.

You're missing the entire point. Proving a domestic abuse case in court is dependent on having cooperative witnesses. Many times spouses and other family members refuse to testify. That doesn't mean the abuse didn't occur as a matter of fact, it just can't be proven in court.

Apparently Smith's ex was successfully able to show a civil court family law judge enough proof of prior or threatened abuse to obtain an injunction against him, which he was apparently unsuccessful in refuting, if he cared to try.

 

[champs99and04]

You may be interested in reading this. McMurphy was laid off by ESPN over a year ago and was on a 18 month severance package:

How ESPN Ended Up Paying Brett McMurphy To Post The Year's Biggest College Football Story On Facebook.

I don't blame him for pursuing the story. I just find the whole way this has developed to be really odd. Journalism is changing - everything they do is less geared towards a niche group and more towards roping in a larger audience. As a result you'll see significant stories linger under the radar for a long time until they suddenly explode overnight.

 

[whaler11]

I cannot fathom how stupid one person (let alone two) has to be to ring up a $600 bill on the state dime at a strip club.

when you are allowed to get away with everything short of murder you get bold.

 

[UConnNick]

I was with you until the last three sentences. That's an awfully grim interpretation of a situation that's a lot easier to diagnose from a distance.

Do you really think, in his full consciousness, that he tolerates abuse of any kind? Or do you think it's more likely that he's unfamiliar with the nuance you outlined at the beginning of your post?

If you want to give Meyer the benefit of the doubt so be it, but there have been a plethora of high profile cases chronicling the difficulty of proving these cases in court. Perhaps most notably, and certainly within Meyer's own area of interest (football), the Warren Moon case, which was splashed all over the media for months. As an aside, John Healy, the Fort Bend Co. DA who prosecuted Moon unsuccessfully, is a UCONN alum.

I find it hard to swallow that Meyer isn't aware of the difference between factual allegations and proving these cases beyond a reasonable doubt in court, especially with uncooperative family member witnesses involved. It took many years for PA prosecutors to decide they could get a conviction in the Jerry Sandusky case. That doesn't mean he didn't commit the acts as a factual matter many years before he got convicted.

 

[Scrutiner]

With Meyer as coach Ohio State will continue to have some dark clouds hovering over their football program.

That is in addition to their Alarming wrestling program scandal.

Good Lord.

Cute attempt to get around the ban on political comments. Virtually all sports were affected, not just wrestling.

 

[Chief00]

If you want to give Meyer the benefit of the doubt so be it, but there have been a plethora of high profile cases chronicling the difficulty of proving these cases in court. Perhaps most notably, and certainly within Meyer's own area of interest (football), the Warren Moon case, which was splashed all over the media for months. As an aside, John Healy, the Fort Bend Co. DA who prosecuted Moon unsuccessfully, is a UCONN alum.

I find it hard to swallow that Meyer isn't aware of the difference between factual allegations and proving these cases beyond a reasonable doubt in court, especially with uncooperative family member witnesses involved. It took many years for PA prosecutors to decide they could get a conviction in the Jerry Sandusky case. That doesn't mean he didn't commit the acts as a factual matter many years before he got convicted.

I get all that but in this case you did have a bold, fully cooperating EX - who called the police nine times. The police had immediate access and shared with the prosecutors office whatever might be considered evidence. If it was a cover up , it was a massive one.

 

[ShakyTheMohel]

I don’t get why top flight schools tolerate this crap. Meyer needs OSU more than OSU needs Meyer. They have won championships without him in the past, and they will in the future. I get it when Louisville, Miami, and other fringe schools cut corners. But OSU should be able to win football games without sacrificing their integrity.

 

[champs99and04]

If you want to give Meyer the benefit of the doubt so be it, but there have been a plethora of high profile cases chronicling the difficulty of proving these cases in court. Perhaps most notably, and certainly within Meyer's own area of interest (football), the Warren Moon case, which was splashed all over the media for months. As an aside, John Healy, the Fort Bend Co. DA who prosecuted Moon unsuccessfully, is a UCONN alum.

I find it hard to swallow that Meyer isn't aware of the difference between factual allegations and proving these cases beyond a reasonable doubt in court, especially with uncooperative family member witnesses involved. It took many years for PA prosecutors to decide they could get a conviction in the Jerry Sandusky case. That doesn't mean he didn't commit the acts as a factual matter many years before he got convicted.

I think he recognizes that there are different thresholds for proving something in court versus determining whether somebody is fit to lead young men. What I'm not sure he recognizes is how difficult it is to even make an arrest in domestic violence disputes. That means he essentially had no objective information to base his decision on beyond the allegation itself.

If he's required to report any allegation to administration (which I believe he is), then they would be justified in firing him. There is a reason they make those particular reads as simple as possible for coaches - they want to eliminate the possibility that bias or loyalty influences their decision to help a victim. Clearly, that process failed. Whether it failed because Meyer misinterpreted the protocol or because OSU failed to communicate his responsibilities, I don't know.

Meyer doesn't come out of this looking good by any stretch. I don't like him, I've never liked him, and this certainly doesn't make me like him more. I just don't see any of this as some egregious moral failing. None of it adds up. Why would he risk everything to keep a WR coach? It's not even like he's the one who would have had to make the decision. He just had to follow the protocol. The entire system is structured to preserve his innocence, both personally and professionally. Worst case scenario, he cut corners you can't cut to show trust in a friend. I'd almost respect it if I wasn't so sure it was out of stupidity rather than loyalty (as he proved by throwing him under the bus the other day).

You'd be surprised by how often the worst people tend to be the most self-righteous. Meyer strikes me as one of those guys. His commitment to respecting women is almost certainly dripping with misogynistic undertones, but that doesn't mean he's gonna chill as someone abuses their wife. I'd actually expect him to be the sort of pathological virtue-mongerer who wants to live in a society where people who steal have their hands cut off and everyone who doesn't read the Bible is punished by an eternity in hell.

If people want a scapegoat they probably got the right guy, maybe even for some of the right reasons, but with the wrong guiding thought process.