UMass signals CUSA

[shizzle787]

What is the bare minimum of sports? You are required to sponsor a certain amount of sports in order to be in the NCAA. With the autonomy group, becoming a real thing, what would preclude a School from saying we are sponsoring one sport only, football or basketball?

Those who have power will make the rules. The schools who pay players will have minimums needed to compete.

 

[AllHusky]

Those who have power will make the rules. The schools who pay players will have minimums needed to compete.

Exactly, seems like the Roosters will be making the rules for the henhouse, yes?

 

[Steve1981]

Remember, this is a new Chancellor and a big change, it will take longer than many UMass fans like, but cool with it, provided it happens before June 30th. Matt Brown was correct not to be surprised if this goes into late spring.

 

[Drew]

What is the bare minimum of sports? You are required to sponsor a certain amount of sports in order to be in the NCAA. With the autonomy group, becoming a real thing, what would preclude a School from saying we are sponsoring one sport only, football or basketball?

The D1 minimum is 16 sports

 

[How Sway?!]

The D1 minimum is 16 sports

For now.

 

[AllHusky]

The D1 minimum is 16 sports

Yes, my point is, as the Autonomy group takes over, those rules can be modified or disappear altogether. Theoretically, the rules could allow a school to have football and no other sports. It would just be an actualization of how many of those folks feel already,

"Who needs those silly Title IX womens sports, or sports that draw little fanfare, but are more for the athletes. Spend more on Football!"

 

[ZooCougar]

 

[Patman]

Yes, my point is, as the Autonomy group takes over, those rules can be modified or disappear altogether. Theoretically, the rules could allow a school to have football and no other sports. It would just be an actualization of how many of those folks feel already,

"Who needs those silly Title IX womens sports, or sports that draw little fanfare, but are more for the athletes. Spend more on Football!"

Those silly title ix sports will exist because of title ix. That being said they could jettison a lot of mens sports. Men's football, basketball, and baseball then a bunch of women's sports.

 

[AllHusky]

Those silly title ix sports will exist because of title ix. That being said they could jettison a lot of mens sports. Men's football, basketball, and baseball then a bunch of women's sports.

What if the top tier becomes 100% financially independent, no subsidies from University(ie Professional sport more or less). Will they be able to be organized in a way that affiliates with the University but not be bound by Title IX since no federal moneys are accepted?

A little farfetched, but when you talk to the most radical of the top tier, they don't see any need to do anything except Football, and maybe some Baseball and Hoops as an offseason diversion.

 

[CL82]

What if the top tier becomes 100% financially independent, no subsidies from University(ie Professional sport more or less). Will they be able to be organized in a way that affiliates with the University but not be bound by Title IX since no federal moneys are accepted?

A little farfetched, but when you talk to the most radical of the top tier, they don't see any need to do anything except Football, and maybe some Baseball and Hoops as an offseason diversion.

Title IX is applied by institution not by sport. so the fact that a particular sport isn't "receiving any federal aid" wouldn't seem to be relevant to the school needing to comply with the rules.

If Title IX has a loophole it is that so long as there are athletic opportunities for female students that are roughly proportional to the opportunities presented to male students, adjusting for the relative population of each of the genders, then the school should be deemed in compliance. It's only if you do not meet that standard that safe harbor you start a more nuance analysis. Take that for what it's worth. It's based on a vague recollection of an article which described the three prong test under the rules. I've yet to hear of a school relying on this, so it may be a bad recollection on my part, a misstatement by the author, or something that has been modified by later changes to the rules.

 

[huskymedic]

… I've yet to hear of a school relying on this, so it may be a bad recollection on my part, a misstatement by the author, or something that has been modified by later changes to the rules.

Great caveat - future w/ the NCAA?

 

[CL82]

Great caveat - future w/ the NCAA?

Probably not given that I don't expect it to be around very much longer.

 

[AllHusky]

Probably not given that I don't expect it to be around very much longer.

Title IX is applied by institution not by sport. so the fact that a particular sport isn't "receiving any federal aid" wouldn't seem to be relevant to the school needing to comply with the rules.

If Title IX has a loophole it is that so long as there are athletic opportunities for female students that are roughly proportional to the opportunities presented to male students, adjusting for the relative population of each of the genders, then the school should be deemed in compliance. It's only if you do not meet that standard that safe harbor you start a more nuance analysis. Take that for what it's worth. It's based on a vague recollection of an article which described the three prong test under the rules. I've yet to hear of a school relying on this, so it may be a bad recollection on my part, a misstatement by the author, or something that has been modified by later changes to the rules.

I'm pretty clear on what it takes to comply with title ix (and under the letter of the law no one at the top level comes close in reality) just not 100% sure what situation(if any) exists or could exist that would allow an athletic department to not be bound by it, ie we only play football

 

[CL82]

I'm pretty clear on what it takes to comply with title ix (and under the letter of the law no one at the top level comes close in reality) just not 100% sure what situation(if any) exists or could exist that would allow an athletic department to not be bound by it, ie we only play football

As noted in my post, take this with a grain of salt, but if I recall correctly there are three tears to complying with title IX. The first year is that there be proportionality of athletics on campus. That basically means that the offerings to men be equivalent to the offerings to women adjusted based upon the relative proportions of each gender. So the offerings would have to be identical if the ratio was 50-50, but if as it often is, women occupy some higher percentage than the amount allocated to them has to be adjusted upward. If you meet that test then you have satisfied your title nine requirements and no further inquiry needs to go forward.

So, it's not a matter of not complying with title IX it is a matter of complying with the safe harbor rule of title IX. But I'm not feeling ambitious enough to actually go look it up confirm that recollection from years ago.

 

[huskymedic]

Shortcut <<

“CUSA will add Kennesaw State next summer and Delaware in summer 2025, both from the FCS. After getting to nine members, the league took its time with expansion, favoring schools with success and infrastructure in place. It wants to get to 12 members. UMass is the top option, but only as an all-sports member, which remains a hurdle to the school’s loyalty of being a founding member of the Atlantic-10 conference.”

 

[How Sway?!]

Shortcut <<

“CUSA will add Kennesaw State next summer and Delaware in summer 2025, both from the FCS. After getting to nine members, the league took its time with expansion, favoring schools with success and infrastructure in place. It wants to get to 12 members. UMass is the top option, but only as an all-sports member, which remains a hurdle to the school’s loyalty of being a founding member of the Atlantic-10 conference.”

Doesn't seem like the fb only invite will be coming any time soon.

 

[Patman]

What if the top tier becomes 100% financially independent, no subsidies from University(ie Professional sport more or less). Will they be able to be organized in a way that affiliates with the University but not be bound by Title IX since no federal moneys are accepted?

A little farfetched, but when you talk to the most radical of the top tier, they don't see any need to do anything except Football, and maybe some Baseball and Hoops as an offseason diversion.

They would have to reject all federal funding. The universities will never do that with all the research monies coming in. Whatever football does is cute but is nothing compared to the federal government dollars coming into the campus via tuition and research funds.

Title IX is about university expenditures on students. They tie all federal monies to this. Nasty of Congress to do but that's what it is. If you want to be out of their thumb you have to reject all federal dollars. AFAIK, the only college to do so is D-2 Hillsdale which is popular amongst conservatives.

 

[AllHusky]

They would have to reject all federal funding. The universities will never do that with all the research monies coming in. Whatever football does is cute but is nothing compared to the federal government dollars coming into the campus via tuition and research funds.

Title IX is about university expenditures on students. They tie all federal monies to this. Nasty of Congress to do but that's what it is. If you want to be out of their thumb you have to reject all federal dollars. AFAIK, the only college to do so is D-2 Hillsdale which is popular amongst conservatives.

Out of my depth when it comes to the magnitude of Federal dollars Universities receive. I guess I am wondering how the Autonomy group could evolve to the point where an "Athletic Department" is no longer considered part of the University and hence not bound by Title IX. I think it depends on how annoying FB folks perceive Title IX mandates and restrictions to be be relative to what they want to do with their football programs. I have to think that all pretense of academic eligibility standards have gone by the wayside. Transferring used to be somewhat difficult with regards to eligibility(satisfactory progress). I doubt that rarely comes into play judging by the volume and diversity of schools that these kids are transferring from.

 

[DFW HOYA]

They would have to reject all federal funding. The universities will never do that with all the research monies coming in. Whatever football does is cute but is nothing compared to the federal government dollars coming into the campus via tuition and research funds.

Title IX is about university expenditures on students. They tie all federal monies to this. Nasty of Congress to do but that's what it is. If you want to be out of their thumb you have to reject all federal dollars. AFAIK, the only college to do so is D-2 Hillsdale which is popular amongst conservatives.

If Florida State transferred some or all its sports to a third party (Seminole Boosters LLC) and signed licensing agreements for the use of the university's name, facilities, and other IP, how would Title IX apply? The school would simply not fund these sports and a private entity is not bound by Title IX.

 

[AllHusky]

If Florida State transferred some or all its sports to a third party (Seminole Boosters LLC) and signed licensing agreements for the use of the university's name, facilities, and other IP, how would Title IX apply? The school would simply not fund these sports and a private entity is not bound by Title IX.

That is the type of model I was imagining. It would bridge the school to the autonomous FB program. SMU has a good reputation academically. Do you think the SMU boosters during the Pony Express days cared what major the athletes were, and whether or not they went to class? Heck, urban legend has it their 1983 NCAA Track Championship score included points scored by an athlete that wasn't even registered for a course.

I guess they were just ahead of their time!

 

[Patman]

Out of my depth when it comes to the magnitude of Federal dollars Universities receive. I guess I am wondering how the Autonomy group could evolve to the point where an "Athletic Department" is no longer considered part of the University and hence not bound by Title IX. I think it depends on how annoying FB folks perceive Title IX mandates and restrictions to be be relative to what they want to do with their football programs. I have to think that all pretense of academic eligibility standards have gone by the wayside. Transferring used to be somewhat difficult with regards to eligibility(satisfactory progress). I doubt that rarely comes into play judging by the volume and diversity of schools that these kids are transferring from.

I mean that could be a workaround but you know lawyers would swimming around like sharks looking to pierce any type of limited association

 

[AllHusky]

I mean that could be a workaround but you know lawyers would swimming around like sharks looking to pierce any type of limited association

I think it boils down to how annoying($$) Title IX is to the "upper crust". If the magnitude of that financial or behavioral annoyance is tolerable, then they won't bother. Really the only Conference that I see as having the mindset to go to all that trouble would be the SEC, and I doubt highly if they currently adhere tightly to Title IX guidelines.

42 years ago while getting a Masters in Sport Management at UMass, we discussed the idea of the FB powers "taking their ball and going home". The Professors predicted it would happen within 20 years, it just took much longer. I will say, the Boneyard discussions on the topic of CR dwarf the UMass discussions in depth of research and volume of quality opinions. It is always amazing to watch history being created in front of you, and fascinating to discuss it with a group of passionate and interested observers.
Unfortunately, in our case, we are sad victims of CR.

Like a Phoenix........Go Huskies!!

 

[Kolumbo]

So CUSA will be at 11 football members with Delaware and Kennesaw State (45k students) and UMass would make 12. If somehow UConn and Temple (back to A-10?) get football only invites, it would be an opportunity for the northeastern schools to elevate themselves and the conference. Pending the ACC implosion. just spit-ballin'.

Eastern POD - UConn, UMass, Delaware, Temple, Liberty, WKU and MTSU (or FIU & Kennesaw State)

 

[ZooCougar]

So CUSA will be at 11 football members with Delaware and Kennesaw State (45k students) and UMass would make 12. If somehow UConn and Temple (back to A-10?) get football only invites, it would be an opportunity for the northeastern schools to elevate themselves and the conference. Pending the ACC implosion. just spit-ballin'.

Eastern POD - UConn, UMass, Delaware, Temple, Liberty, WKU and MTSU (or FIU & Kennesaw State)

We have to patient to see how the ACC thing plays out.

I think this proposal is amusing because UMass has to leave the A-10 to do this, and Temple has to join it

 

[RSTuthill]

ESPN announcers on the Kansas broadcast were talking about the match up and conference realignment and how it’s impacted UConn and how it’d be great if these teams played each other more often Almost felt like they were signaling a hoops only move

That would make almost zero sense for UConn unless they got almost a full share for only their hoops teams. The price? FB stays Indy for the long term dying on the vine and all other sports except hockey are consigned to the so-called mid major status wherever they end up. I doubt the financial terms would ever be attractive enough to justify that.