UMass signals CUSA

[How Sway?!]

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“CUSA will add Kennesaw State next summer and Delaware in summer 2025, both from the FCS. After getting to nine members, the league took its time with expansion, favoring schools with success and infrastructure in place. It wants to get to 12 members. UMass is the top option, but only as an all-sports member, which remains a hurdle to the school’s loyalty of being a founding member of the Atlantic-10 conference.”

Doesn't seem like the fb only invite will be coming any time soon.

 

[Patman]

What if the top tier becomes 100% financially independent, no subsidies from University(ie Professional sport more or less). Will they be able to be organized in a way that affiliates with the University but not be bound by Title IX since no federal moneys are accepted?

A little farfetched, but when you talk to the most radical of the top tier, they don't see any need to do anything except Football, and maybe some Baseball and Hoops as an offseason diversion.

They would have to reject all federal funding. The universities will never do that with all the research monies coming in. Whatever football does is cute but is nothing compared to the federal government dollars coming into the campus via tuition and research funds.

Title IX is about university expenditures on students. They tie all federal monies to this. Nasty of Congress to do but that's what it is. If you want to be out of their thumb you have to reject all federal dollars. AFAIK, the only college to do so is D-2 Hillsdale which is popular amongst conservatives.

 

[AllHusky]

They would have to reject all federal funding. The universities will never do that with all the research monies coming in. Whatever football does is cute but is nothing compared to the federal government dollars coming into the campus via tuition and research funds.

Title IX is about university expenditures on students. They tie all federal monies to this. Nasty of Congress to do but that's what it is. If you want to be out of their thumb you have to reject all federal dollars. AFAIK, the only college to do so is D-2 Hillsdale which is popular amongst conservatives.

Out of my depth when it comes to the magnitude of Federal dollars Universities receive. I guess I am wondering how the Autonomy group could evolve to the point where an "Athletic Department" is no longer considered part of the University and hence not bound by Title IX. I think it depends on how annoying FB folks perceive Title IX mandates and restrictions to be be relative to what they want to do with their football programs. I have to think that all pretense of academic eligibility standards have gone by the wayside. Transferring used to be somewhat difficult with regards to eligibility(satisfactory progress). I doubt that rarely comes into play judging by the volume and diversity of schools that these kids are transferring from.

 

[DFW HOYA]

They would have to reject all federal funding. The universities will never do that with all the research monies coming in. Whatever football does is cute but is nothing compared to the federal government dollars coming into the campus via tuition and research funds.

Title IX is about university expenditures on students. They tie all federal monies to this. Nasty of Congress to do but that's what it is. If you want to be out of their thumb you have to reject all federal dollars. AFAIK, the only college to do so is D-2 Hillsdale which is popular amongst conservatives.

If Florida State transferred some or all its sports to a third party (Seminole Boosters LLC) and signed licensing agreements for the use of the university's name, facilities, and other IP, how would Title IX apply? The school would simply not fund these sports and a private entity is not bound by Title IX.

 

[AllHusky]

If Florida State transferred some or all its sports to a third party (Seminole Boosters LLC) and signed licensing agreements for the use of the university's name, facilities, and other IP, how would Title IX apply? The school would simply not fund these sports and a private entity is not bound by Title IX.

That is the type of model I was imagining. It would bridge the school to the autonomous FB program. SMU has a good reputation academically. Do you think the SMU boosters during the Pony Express days cared what major the athletes were, and whether or not they went to class? Heck, urban legend has it their 1983 NCAA Track Championship score included points scored by an athlete that wasn't even registered for a course.

I guess they were just ahead of their time!

 

[Patman]

Out of my depth when it comes to the magnitude of Federal dollars Universities receive. I guess I am wondering how the Autonomy group could evolve to the point where an "Athletic Department" is no longer considered part of the University and hence not bound by Title IX. I think it depends on how annoying FB folks perceive Title IX mandates and restrictions to be be relative to what they want to do with their football programs. I have to think that all pretense of academic eligibility standards have gone by the wayside. Transferring used to be somewhat difficult with regards to eligibility(satisfactory progress). I doubt that rarely comes into play judging by the volume and diversity of schools that these kids are transferring from.

I mean that could be a workaround but you know lawyers would swimming around like sharks looking to pierce any type of limited association

 

[AllHusky]

I mean that could be a workaround but you know lawyers would swimming around like sharks looking to pierce any type of limited association

I think it boils down to how annoying($$) Title IX is to the "upper crust". If the magnitude of that financial or behavioral annoyance is tolerable, then they won't bother. Really the only Conference that I see as having the mindset to go to all that trouble would be the SEC, and I doubt highly if they currently adhere tightly to Title IX guidelines.

42 years ago while getting a Masters in Sport Management at UMass, we discussed the idea of the FB powers "taking their ball and going home". The Professors predicted it would happen within 20 years, it just took much longer. I will say, the Boneyard discussions on the topic of CR dwarf the UMass discussions in depth of research and volume of quality opinions. It is always amazing to watch history being created in front of you, and fascinating to discuss it with a group of passionate and interested observers.
Unfortunately, in our case, we are sad victims of CR.

Like a Phoenix........Go Huskies!!

 

[Kolumbo]

So CUSA will be at 11 football members with Delaware and Kennesaw State (45k students) and UMass would make 12. If somehow UConn and Temple (back to A-10?) get football only invites, it would be an opportunity for the northeastern schools to elevate themselves and the conference. Pending the ACC implosion. just spit-ballin'.

Eastern POD - UConn, UMass, Delaware, Temple, Liberty, WKU and MTSU (or FIU & Kennesaw State)

 

[ZooCougar]

So CUSA will be at 11 football members with Delaware and Kennesaw State (45k students) and UMass would make 12. If somehow UConn and Temple (back to A-10?) get football only invites, it would be an opportunity for the northeastern schools to elevate themselves and the conference. Pending the ACC implosion. just spit-ballin'.

Eastern POD - UConn, UMass, Delaware, Temple, Liberty, WKU and MTSU (or FIU & Kennesaw State)

We have to patient to see how the ACC thing plays out.

I think this proposal is amusing because UMass has to leave the A-10 to do this, and Temple has to join it

 

[RSTuthill]

ESPN announcers on the Kansas broadcast were talking about the match up and conference realignment and how it’s impacted UConn and how it’d be great if these teams played each other more often Almost felt like they were signaling a hoops only move

That would make almost zero sense for UConn unless they got almost a full share for only their hoops teams. The price? FB stays Indy for the long term dying on the vine and all other sports except hockey are consigned to the so-called mid major status wherever they end up. I doubt the financial terms would ever be attractive enough to justify that.

 

[RSTuthill]

Yes, my point is, as the Autonomy group takes over, those rules can be modified or disappear altogether. Theoretically, the rules could allow a school to have football and no other sports. It would just be an actualization of how many of those folks feel already,

"Who needs those silly Title IX womens sports, or sports that draw little fanfare, but are more for the athletes. Spend more on Football!"

You are aware that Title 9 has nothing to do with the NCAA or conferences, right? It is Federal Law and women at a school are quite capable of hiring nationally prominent lawyers to compel compliance and pay big punitive damages. Title 9 will be enforced at every university come hell or high water.

 

[AllHusky]

You are aware that Title 9 has nothing to do with the NCAA or conferences, right? It is Federal Law and women at a school are quite capable of hiring nationally prominent lawyers to compel compliance and pay big punitive damages. Title 9 will be enforced at every university come hell or high water.

Yes, I am aware. The thought is that maybe the the new "Premier League"(perfect name coined by someone else) may find a way to dissociate itself from Universities.

"If Florida State transferred some or all its sports to a third party (Seminole Boosters LLC) and signed licensing agreements for the use of the university's name, facilities, and other IP, how would Title IX apply? The school would simply not fund these sports and a private entity is not bound by Title IX." =from another poster

In any case, this might be a fantasy, but who the heck knows? What was more plausible 12 months ago, Stanford in the ACC, or creation of a Premier League who play by their own rules, dissociated from NCAA, and Title IX?

Seems to me the "Premier League" is just around the corner. Details in 20 minutes.

 

[CL82]

Yes, I am aware. The thought is that maybe the the new "Premier League"(perfect name coined by someone else) may find a way to dissociate itself from Universities.

"If Florida State transferred some or all its sports to a third party (Seminole Boosters LLC) and signed licensing agreements for the use of the university's name, facilities, and other IP, how would Title IX apply? The school would simply not fund these sports and a private entity is not bound by Title IX." =from another poster

In any case, this might be a fantasy, but who the heck knows? What was more plausible 12 months ago, Stanford in the ACC, or creation of a Premier League who play by their own rules, dissociated from NCAA, and Title IX?

Seems to me the "Premier League" is just around the corner. Details in 20 minutes.

If a separate ran a sports club entitled the Seminoles, completely divorced from the university, it would just be a low level pro team. If FSU decided to stop offering college sports at the same time, it would just be a college that didn't offer sports.

On the other hand if the new professional team advertised itself as being affiliated with the university, played at university venues, etc., it would seem to have a sufficient connection to the university that it would be considered regarding title IX. at that point the university would have to arrange for similar funding for female athletes.

This is one of those ideas that sounds great in a bar at 2 o'clock in the morning, but really doesn't stand up to close scrutiny, in my opinion.

 

[businesslawyer]

Yes, I am aware. The thought is that maybe the the new "Premier League"(perfect name coined by someone else) may find a way to dissociate itself from Universities.

"If Florida State transferred some or all its sports to a third party (Seminole Boosters LLC) and signed licensing agreements for the use of the university's name, facilities, and other IP, how would Title IX apply? The school would simply not fund these sports and a private entity is not bound by Title IX." =from another poster

In any case, this might be a fantasy, but who the heck knows? What was more plausible 12 months ago, Stanford in the ACC, or creation of a Premier League who play by their own rules, dissociated from NCAA, and Title IX?

Seems to me the "Premier League" is just around the corner. Details in 20 minutes.

Whenever your question is "what was more plausible" and you compare an (even strange) conference move with a theory you personally have created for universities getting around important federal law -- well you should know enough to not ask the question.

 

[Patman]

Yes, I am aware. The thought is that maybe the the new "Premier League"(perfect name coined by someone else) may find a way to dissociate itself from Universities.

"If Florida State transferred some or all its sports to a third party (Seminole Boosters LLC) and signed licensing agreements for the use of the university's name, facilities, and other IP, how would Title IX apply? The school would simply not fund these sports and a private entity is not bound by Title IX." =from another poster

In any case, this might be a fantasy, but who the heck knows? What was more plausible 12 months ago, Stanford in the ACC, or creation of a Premier League who play by their own rules, dissociated from NCAA, and Title IX?

Seems to me the "Premier League" is just around the corner. Details in 20 minutes.

It'd still originate from money for the students. You would have to divorce the players from the school.

 

[AllHusky]

Depends how much of an impediment the "Premiers" see Title IX as being to getting what they want. The money being bandied about for Florida States exit cost from the ACC is mind boggling. Why wouldn't they shift those costs to creation of another model?

Title IX decrees equal opportunities for Men and Women in collegiate sport. No way no how can you come with a 1:1 opportunity or allocation of resources for women to match Football. If the Federal Government was serious about enforcement, the Premier group would become very creative about how it wiggled free of that mandate.

Right now, it is not a major issue for these folks. UConn poked the bear and got it's butt handed to it by Womens Rowing.

While not proposing or espousing this model, just seeing it as a possibility if things became too difficult for the Premiers.

 

[AllHusky]

If a separate ran a sports club entitled the Seminoles, completely divorced from the university, it would just be a low level pro team. If FSU decided to stop offering college sports at the same time, it would just be a college that didn't offer sports.

You look at the G League. It is superior basketball to the NCAA at all levels. Players there, people would pay premium money to watch them play in college and when they are in G League, you can get into the building for $10. (John Silver)
I'm guessing this is what you see developing

On the other hand if the new professional team advertised itself as being affiliated with the university, played at university venues, etc., it would seem to have a sufficient connection to the university that it would be considered regarding title IX. at that point the university would have to arrange for similar funding for female athletes.

This is one of those ideas that sounds great in a bar at 2 o'clock in the morning, but really doesn't stand up to close scrutiny, in my opinion.

 

[CL82]

You look at the G League. It is superior basketball to the NCAA at all levels. Players there, people would pay premium money to watch them play in college and when they are in G League, you can get into the building for $10. (John Silver)
I'm guessing this is what you see developing

Not me. I think the idea of schools attempting to beat title IX by forming a de facto low level pro league is enormously flawed.

 

[AllHusky]

I think we can put this one to rest. Next??

 

[Fishy]

Not me. I think the idea of schools attempting to beat title IX by forming a de facto low level pro league is enormously flawed.

Yup.

You want to light a boatload of money on fire in billable hours? Unveil your plan to circumvent Title IX.

And good luck explaining your rationale to the 60-65% of paying customers at your university who happen to be women. “It’s better for football” will not impress them.