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Uconn ... the real story

Stairmaster said:
Some of these NEPSAC kids spent only one year playing high school ball in Connecticut - Spellman, Moyer, Powell. Growing up in Ohio and New Jersey, I'd assume they were like most other kids from there and had no sentimental attraction to UConn. Echoing @Tuna's point, many of the kids who come here for their prep ball are from all over the country. Diallo's old PSA team has players from Brooklyn, Arizona, France, and Louisiana on their roster who are only here for one season.

Heron, as mentioned earlier, had handler issues (possibly i$$ue$) that steered him away from here. Alabama and Mississippi State were in his Top 5 - I don't think even Calhoun would have gotten him interested in UConn.

Waters I am okay with losing given that the staff made a just as good (if not better) choice in MAL. One could also argue that given the amount of talent in the MA/greater Boston area that's exploded onto the scene in recent years, that may be a more important pipeline to maintain than CT natives.

The number of recruits ranked as high as Diallo UConn has ever gotten can be counted on one hand. Drummond, Bynum (but he didn't make it to campus), maybe Donyell or Ray? It took Calhoun 26 years here and he only ended up with those four.

Chukwu's final 2 were Providence and St. Joe's. His host family was pretty set on him going to a private Catholic school, not much we can do there. They also made his host brother getting a walk-on spot a condition of his transfer to Syracuse. Not every school wants to deal with handlers who try to make deals like that. Plus, looking at his on-court performance thus far, he wouldn't have given us anything his freshman year that Brimah or Nolan didn't give. Before he got injured this past year, his rebounding appears decent given the minutes he played, but that comes from beating up against Syracuse's killer non-conference slate of Colgate, Holy Cross, and South Carolina State. It'll be interesting to see how he recovers from the eye issues, but I don't think he can be counted as a huge miss.
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Charlie V was another very high rated dude. 2 or 3?
 
Total BS position.

We need to be thrilled we are UConn fans on this ride. Ollie will be fine. And talking about CT kids that got away is freaking insane. Looking at lots of great kids that have come through.
 
RUSS56 said:
Ok, I'm not sure why I have to do this, all I tried to do is make a point, and the point is valid. It's fine if you disagree with the point, I accept that, but when you come up with stuff like this, it just doesn't play. Let's review the 5 players you called Calhoun out for not landing:

Isaiah Thomas- Thomas was a very late bloomer, he ranked 187th in the country as a prospect, not the type of guy that got away, because Calhoun didn't recruit that low.

Dorell Wright - This kid never played a game in college, went straight to the NBA.

Maurice Harkless - Ranked 37th, one that truly got away, albeit a 1 and done guy, but a miss for Calhoun.

Russ Smith - He was 2012-13, and it was an Ollie miss, not Calhoun

Ricky ledo - This kid was ineligible his entire freshman year, and never played a game, went right to the NBA.

So to review your 5 players that got away from Calhoun, 1 is true, 4 others are simply false.
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Umm Russ Smith's freshman year was 2010-2011 when Calhoun was the coach and he was a 3 star recruit on Rivals. If you are going to give facts don't miss on something as simple when Russ Smith got recruited.
 
gtcam said:
WORTHLESS absolutely worthless post

You could do this with any state or city
Based on the 10 players you cited as 4 + star it looks like KO had a 30% success rate - that I would guess is pretty damn high - I challenge that JC even came close to that
JC was and is one the greatest NCAA coach and he could not keep the best of the state to stay here at UConn - there is a long list
All the coaches at St Johns including Lou (Hall of Fame) should have kept all NYC players in city???

You talk BS about KO "scolding" players - yeah he does it like JC right? A ridiculous accusation
UConn coaching staff is all guards- not completely true but Tell me where are the big men on the Duke coaching bench? I would bet that if there are former players who are coaches at most ant level - 80% were guards

You spent a lot of time spewing little or nothing - do something different
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You can make your points without using the words 'WORTHLESS' and 'ridiculous' and'BS. Everyone has their opinion and you are welcome to counter it, but it should be done in a civil manner. Your counter arguments have merit, but your attacks take away from your message.

While your valid points made me reconsider what the OP said, I still appreciate that he expressed his well thought out opinion in a way that shows he really cares about UConn. He played and played well for UConn, and his opinion counts as much as yours.
 
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Okafour rings said:
You can make your points without using the words 'WORTHLESS' and 'ridiculous' and'BS. Everyone has their opinion and you are welcome to counter it, but it should be done in a civil manner. Your counter arguments have merit, but your attacks take away from your message.

While your valid points made me reconsider what the OP said, I still appreciate that he expressed his well thought out opinion in a way that shows he really cares about UConn. He played and played well for UConn, and his opinion counts as much as yours.
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But the point was, those weren't opinions. Just incorrect statements that were being masqueraded as facts to fit a narrative (opinion). Hence why other posters were annoyed. If you wanted to give an opinion, fine, do it. But back it up with actual facts, or you'll be challenged on it, which is again, fine. But if you back it up with false statements, well, expect to get ripped apart.
 
We had 2 players transfer who didn't like the way they were being used. It is not exactly an indictment on anything, it happens all the time. Coaches not players decide roles or otherwise you have the inmates running the prison. Many are making way too much of this. Good luck to Enoch and Jackson but we will be fine without either of them.
 
Bored so, by ESPN since 2007 there have been only 9 CT players in the top 100.

Committed while Calhoun was coach:
Allan Chaney - UF/VT 2008, New London
Andre Drummond - CT 2011 Middletown
Kris Dunn - PC 2012 New London

Committed under Ollie:
Kuran Iverson - Memphis/URI 2013 Windsor
Paschal Chukwu - PC/Cuse 2014 Westport
Donovan Mitchell - UL 2015 Greenwich
Mustapha Heron - Auburn 2016 West Haven
Tyrique Jones - Xavier 2016 Bloomfield
Tremont Waters - Georgetown/??? 2017 New Haven.


I guess Calhoun was 1/3 on top 100 kids from CT in 6 years.

Ollie was 0/6 on top 100 kids from CT in 5 years.

2-4-7 has the following players from CT preps/CT as the top players in CT

2003
Quincey Douby RU
2004
David McClure Duke
2005
Craig Austrie
2006
Doug Wiggins
2007
Matthew Bryan-Amaning UW
2008
Devin Ebanks WVU
Allan Chaney UF (#2)
2009
Jordan Williams UM
2010
Jason Morris GT (CT)
Of Note:
Russ Smith UL (NY)
2011
Andre Drummond (CT)
Of Note:
Maurice Harkless SJU (NY)
2012
Kris Dunn PC (CT)
2013
Scoochie Smith (CT)
2014
Paschal Chukwu (CT)
2015
Steven Enoch (CT)
2016
Myles Powell (NJ)
2017
Hamidou Diallo (NY)

It's more like there just weren't a ton of good players in CT when Calhoun was coaching. There has been more of an explosion under Ollie but Ollie has prioritized other players over those UConn even had a shot at:

Adams/Mitchell
Diarra/Jones
MAL/Waters

The only one from CT or at a CT prep UConn had a shot at who they seriously prioritized as their top target and missed under Ollie was Diallo. And that was dreadful bc they thought they had him.
 
I'm trying to understand this narrative: so if a kid is born in Connecticut and spends 16 years in CT and then goes to prep school in Iowa for a year, does the Iowa coach get for not landing him, or does KO?? I'm assuming KO. Because any recruit that ever sets foot in CT that UConn doesn't get is a huge miss. Give me a friggin break please.
 
It is inevitable when someone shows up with the 'real story', they completely F it up.

UConn got their share of players from in-state prep schools, but Calhoun never had any sort of monopoly there. Never.
 
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MervthePurvis said:
Anthony Harris
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I actually thought of him but didn't mention him because I don't know if UCONN would have accepted him as a student. I think he was the only kid ever under Boeheim who was a academic redshirt, but even then he flunked out.
 
Last edited:
Sadly, this is typical. Someone pulls 3 sentences from a long thought, and it becomes the narrative for the entire thread. There were 3 lines in what I wrote on CT kids, and this entire thread has become about the accuracy of that, as their obviously mistakes, not intent to deceive anyone. That wasn't the point of all that I wrote. Perhaps those fixated on the CT kids portion should read the rest.
 
The apologists are out in full force. The team has been bad for 3 straight years, and things don't look too promising for 2017-18 with only 2 fully healthy players returning.

The apologists will come up with excuse after excuse, year after after year. The bottom line is that the results just aren't there and nobody can dispute that.

And the icing on the cake is hiring an associate head coach who's last team went 9-22 and didn't win a game after January 18th. Yeah, he is going to help turn things around.
 
Tuna said:
If you're going to use Diallo from Queens playing at Putnam as an example then let's start with the South Kent School. Notable alumni include Dorell Wright, Isaiah Thomas, Muarice Harkless, Russ Smith and Ricky Ledo. That's one school.
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Also from that same school was Andre Blatche, who ended up going directly to the pros. Damn you, Calhoun!!! ;)

#NotTheRealStory
 
huskyrob1 said:
I actually thought of him but didn't mention him because I don't know if UCONN would have accepted him as a student. I think he was the only kid ever under Boeheim who was a academic redshirt, but even then he flunked out.
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Not sure he flunked out. Wasn't he involved in some off campus fight that got him kicked out?
I remember meeting Rick Pitino at the Wilton fieldhouse for the fciac finals. Harris was a baller. He should be on the list. #hatterhype
 
Huskybass said:
The bottom line is that the results just aren't there and nobody can dispute that.
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But I can and do dispute that. He won a national title. We can agree the years after haven't been great, but we're just disagreeing about how much leeway to give someone who won a National Title, the very definition of results.
 
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Huskybass said:
The apologists are out in full force. The team has been bad for 3 straight years, and things don't look too promising for 2017-18 with only 2 fully healthy players returning.

The apologists will come up with excuse after excuse, year after after year. The bottom line is that the results just aren't there and nobody can dispute that.

And the icing on the cake is hiring an associate head coach who's last team went 9-22 and didn't win a game after January 18th. Yeah, he is going to help turn things around.
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Some of us prefer to analyze things with as much context as can be gathered. Makes for a richer, more nuanced analysis. More can be learned and better decisions come from such broader perspectives, in my opinion.

You seem to be a bottom-line only kind of guy. That can have much value also, but less so when time and data are limited, like here.

We're getting to the point where the bottom line perspective should win out, but we're not there yet.
 
RUSS56 said:
He played in CT, and Dunn was on Ollie's watch, not Calhoun's. Name one CT kid that is in the NBA, or was in the NBA that Calhoun let get away the last 20 yrs?
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Brian Gomes
 
RUSS56 said:
Sadly, this is typical. Someone pulls 3 sentences from a long thought, and it becomes the narrative for the entire thread. There were 3 lines in what I wrote on CT kids, and this entire thread has become about the accuracy of that, as their obviously mistakes, not intent to deceive anyone. That wasn't the point of all that I wrote. Perhaps those fixated on the CT kids portion should read the rest.
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It is typical. Your larger points were mostly accurate in my view. But as I've said before, we've got no options here but to ride this out and hope Ollie (and Dave B as appropriate) make the needed changes. We just ate $3M from an underwater athletics budget to get rid of Diaco. But there we had a clear upgrade path, and a guy who came in a little light on the salary side. With Ollie....there's nobody who is a clear upgrade who would consent to come here, and even if they would, the cost in buyout and new salary would swamp the whole department. Ollie has some issues to work through, but the changes I'm seeing encourage me if only because they suggest that he recognizes it. The man isn't a quitter and doesn't accept failure. Next season absolutely is critical, and I agree that his ability to recruit if we miss the tournament again will plummet.

The simple reality we need to wake up to is that like Gonzaga basketball and Boise State football, UConn basketball will get plenty of attention as long as our name shows up on the Top 25 ticker rolling at the bottom of ESPN. When it's not, we fall off the radar completely, because nobody cares about this conference. We can't afford to lose.
 
Huskybass said:
The apologists are out in full force. The team has been bad for 3 straight years, and things don't look too promising for 2017-18 with only 2 fully healthy players returning.

The apologists will come up with excuse after excuse, year after after year. The bottom line is that the results just aren't there and nobody can dispute that.

And the icing on the cake is hiring an associate head coach who's last team went 9-22 and didn't win a game after January 18th. Yeah, he is going to help turn things around.
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So it's National Title or failed season for you? Well ok. We won a title 3 yrs ago. We've been in the conference finals EVERY SINGLE YEAR before this one. We WON it last yr. Does winning the conference mean nothing? It what way is that a bad season?

This season was bad. Let's leave it at that and be positive toward next yr.
 
Russ - just to start - I do agree with a number of your points, albeit your take on most topics here feel as if you discuss things in a negative light - Ollie is a competitor, BUT // Larrier and Gilbert were good in their 3 games, BUT - almost like you have hope, but are not expecting things to get better. That is most likely why your taking flack from people on the board. When you are a bit negative and have a few factual errors, you will get hammered - happens to everyone - myself included. Just have to know going in if you say one thing wrong, your original post will be meaningless to many.

Anyway, while I agree with a number of points (conference and recruiting, attendance), I do want to throw out my take on a couple. #1 - You, and so many others, like to throw out the comparison of " JC would never" or "JC did it this way"... People need to stop comparing JC to KO. They are inherently linked through the UConn brand, but as a coach, they could not be more dissimilar. JC was a get in your face, tell you what he's thinking, 100% of the time kind of leader. KO is a motivational leader. JC was a coach before he came to UConn, he came through the ranks to get where he got. KO played ball, developed for 2 years under Calhoun, then was placed in a position of immense scrutiny right away (which I agree that it is fair to be critical of him), BUT he is a brand new coach. He didn't have the high school, to player development/video assistant, to associate head coach, to head coaching trail that so many coaches have. He relies heavily on his motivational tactics to get the most out of his guys every single day. He is not JC, and I don't think it's a fair assessment to judge his abilities/tactics to those of JC. Being critical about results is fair, but comparing leadership and styles of coaching - that's something that I don't see as a fair way to judge what his potential might be.

Lastly, I really can't stand the same old line that our RIVAL SCHOOLS like to use - "he won with Calhoun's guy's". Kevin Ollie was heavily involved in recruiting the 2013-2014 recruiting class. Yes, Calhoun was the coach in which the year the 14 champ recruits came aboard. But Kevin Ollie helped recruit, was able to keep Shabazz from transferring in 2012, then developed, and coached HIS TEAM to a title. Using the "Calhoun's guys" without giving some credit to KO is an excuse used to fit certain narratives. Stop selling the job KO did with those players short. If you are going to blame KO for the lack of results in the last couple of years, then you need to give him some credit for winning as well. Using the "Calhoun's guys" line completely discredits the job he did in bringing those recruits to Connecticut, and giving us our 4th title.
 
I have to agree with RUSS56, in his initial post, he presented an accurate assessment of the program as a whole since Kevin Ollie took over. I'm not bashing KO or anyone else for that matter, but, from what I've seen since Jim Calhoun took over the program to what it is now, we aren't even on the same page.

It is true, Jim Calhoun took over this program and built it from a regional power into a national power and winning 3 national championships along the way. Everyone knew who was in charge of this program, no doubt.

Speaking of recruiting, did Jim Calhoun get every high school recruit in the state of Connecticut, no, did Jim Calhoun get every high school recruit he had targeted, no, but, he did get the recruits that were best for what he wanted to do with his system and his program. In fact, there were many kids he didn't recruit because they weren't the type of kids he wanted for his program. Bottom line is this; we all know that Jim Calhoun knew what he wanted and he could recruit because the proof is he won 3 National Championships and had several of his players went on to have great careers in the NBA with a slam dunk future Hall of Famer.

Not to minimize Kevin Ollie and what he's done because last year, he had a great recruiting class; several 4 star bordering 5 star recruits and other possibly underrated players made up that great class. Previous recruiting classes haven't been as good as last years class, and we don't know what the future holds for upcoming classes.

It is possible that Jim Calhoun and Kevin Ollie have different philosophies when it comes to what they want in their programs and the types of players they recruit.

UCONN is nationally known, because of what Jim Calhoun has done, period. When Kevin Ollie took over the program, he took over a nationally known commodity that not only has name recognition but also has pedigree, 4 National Championship banners hang from the rafters at Gampel Pavilion as proof. We know what Jim Calhoun has done with the program, what has Kevin Ollie done with what he inherited? Yes, he won a National Championship in his second year of coaching, but not with his players. I'm not minimizing what he has done, I'm just asking what has he done with what he has recruited? We've won a few tournament games, agreed, but, we missed a couple of tournaments as well. Something is missing, not sure what it is either, but its just not there.

Does the AAC have something to do with it? I guarantee that has a pretty big part on why we don't get those top recruits to come to UCONN. We saw the respect this conference gets from the tournament committee, we had our two top teams seeded as #6's! Even though they lost early, they should have been seeded higher. Heck, we won the whole thing as #7 seed in 2014! My point here is that the blame is not all on Kevin Ollie, the conference we're in is part of the problem.

What we have not accomplished under Kevin Ollie is player development. The program needs to coach up these kids and not allow mediocrity to be the rule of the day. I understand "10 toes in" and "take the stairs and not the escalator", but, have we seen it? We had a Ferrari parked in the garage that sputtered when let out in the open road, who's fault is that? This past year, we played with 6 or 7 guys plus the walk-ons because the other players were out for the rest of the season with injuries, who's fault is that? In all honesty, we know the answer.

We've seen some recent changes made by Kevin Ollie and hopefully those changes will fix some of the things that has been a hindrance to the growth of this program. Whether we want to agree or not, leadership is not overrated. This program needs strong leadership, from the top on down.

Personally, I believe when you have strong leadership, you have a strong vision of what you want to accomplish and a strong willingness to go after it and, achieve it. That, I believe is one of the things that this program is missing. Kevin Ollie shouldn't be the players best friend, he needs to be their coach and lead them. Hey, sometimes strong leadership hurts feelings, but that's life.

RUSS56, you did a good job, and you're right, somehow a couple of sentences you wrote about recruiting kids in Connecticut were hijacked. That does not diminish all the other things you mentioned in your post.

Thanks for your post, it was needed.
 
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Can someone correct me on this if I am wrong? Didn't Dunn want to come here with Drummond but we had no scholarships available thanks to the APR issue? Drummond 'walked on" but Dunn couldn't do that?
 
hardcorehusky said:
Can someone correct me on this if I am wrong? Didn't Dunn want to come here with Drummond but we had no scholarships available thanks to the APR issue? Drummond 'walked on" but Dunn couldn't do that?
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No.
 
Huskybass said:
The apologists are out in full force. The team has been bad for 3 straight years, and things don't look too promising for 2017-18 with only 2 fully healthy players returning.

The apologists will come up with excuse after excuse, year after after year. The bottom line is that the results just aren't there and nobody can dispute that.

And the icing on the cake is hiring an associate head coach who's last team went 9-22 and didn't win a game after January 18th. Yeah, he is going to help turn things around.
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2015-2016 was a bad year? I agree that this year sucked and 2014-2015 wasn't good either(although basically 2 years of handicapped recruiting prior to that season contributed to that), but if 25 wins, a conf tournament title and a 2 round appearance qualify as a bad year then I guess 30 wins and a FF appearance is the only way to have a good season to you.
 
tzznandrew said:
But I can and do dispute that. He won a national title. We can agree the years after haven't been great, but we're just disagreeing about how much leeway to give someone who won a National Title, the very definition of results.
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This is troubling. KO gets credit for winning an NCAA Title. Can't take it away from him he did, but there is a caveat. Calhoun recruits scored 56 of the 60 points vs KY to win it.
 
I'll let the reader decide if recruiting has changed. These 5 players were Calhoun's starting 5 based on top recruits, in his last 5 years. I picked the last 5 years because Ollie has 5 recruiting classes. Granted, some of his recruits have unfinished resumes, and may turn out to be better, or worse than current perception, but for now, here is Calhoun's top 5 in his last 5 years:

C Drummond
F Daniels
F Lanb
G Napier
G Walker

OFF THE BENCH:

G Boatright
Best shooter: Giffey


Take a look at his top 5. Does Ollie have any player/players that crack that starting 5? Argue that some resumes are incomplete, I get that. Do you project any of Ollie's players past or present to crack the top 5? Right now the number is 0. That may change, but what if 1 or 2 do crack the top 5? Conceding that, which is a lot to concede, do you see the erosion in the level of talent? If nothing else is clear, that is.
 
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