Uconn ... the real story

[UConNation]

Good diversion try - So back to the examples I gave - when an 8 ounce glass has 4 ounces in it - isn't it a fact that it's both half full and half empty?

Again, that's called PERSPECTIVE. It is a FACT that there are 4 ounces in the glass. Your perspective allows you to call it half empty or half full. Same exact thing applies to the example I already gave.

 

[Huskybass]

Th

2015-2016 was a bad year? I agree that this year sucked and 2014-2015 wasn't good either(although basically 2 years of handicapped recruiting prior to that season contributed to that), but if 25 wins, a conf tournament title and a 2 round appearance qualify as a bad year then I guess 30 wins and a FF appearance is the only way to have a good season to you.

The team has won one NCAA tournament game in 3 seasons and is almost never ranked. That is a bad 3 year stretch.

 

[CTBasketball]

Spot on. OP points out "a very troubling" aspect of coaching styles comparing KO and JC. When the argument is brought up for debate, OP calls it a pointless argument. Entire thread then becomes a pointless argument?

Typical BY.

 

[Huskybass]

So it's National Title or failed season for you? Well ok. We won a title 3 yrs ago. We've been in the conference finals EVERY SINGLE YEAR before this one. We WON it last yr. Does winning the conference mean nothing? It what way is that a bad season?

This season was bad. Let's leave it at that and be positive toward next yr.

No, let's not leave it at that. Over the past 3 seasons, UConn has won a total of one game in the NCAA tournament. The team never contends for the regular season AAC title and is almost never ranked in the Top 25. To me, that is far from acceptable.

 

[aceboon]

Th

The team has won one NCAA tournament game in 3 seasons and is almost never ranked. That is a bad 3 year stretch.

You said 3 bad years in a row, so you are saying last year was a bad year, I don't agree.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'll let the reader decide if recruiting has changed. These 5 players were Calhoun's starting 5 based on top recruits, in his last 5 years. I picked the last 5 years because Ollie has 5 recruiting classes. Granted, some of his recruits have unfinished resumes, and may turn out to be better, or worse than current perception, but for now, here is Calhoun's top 5 in his last 5 years:

C Drummond
F Daniels
F Lanb
G Napier
G Walker

OFF THE BENCH:

G Boatright
Best shooter: Giffey


Take a look at his top 5. Does Ollie have any player/players that crack that starting 5? Argue that some resumes are incomplete, I get that. Do you project any of Ollie's players past or present to crack the top 5? Right now the number is 0. That may change, but what if 1 or 2 do crack the top 5? Conceding that, which is a lot to concede, do you see the erosion in the level of talent? If nothing else is clear, that is.

You're really stretching the point now. If we play along, then I can certainly imagine Larrier being better than Lamb, who was really a shooting guard. Hamilton was better than whoever you could pick that was an actual SF under Calhoun in those five years (probably Giffey). I think Adams is already better than Boatright ever was, and in another year will be much better. I suspect that Gilbert will be tremendous. I think Drummond is a little silly, because he was a one and done who didn't do much in a pretty poor season at UConn.

Add to that, the APR sanctions impacted Ollie, not Calhoun really. Has Ollie been a great recruiter? No, but he's been good. Hamilton, Adams, Gilbert, luring 5* McD Purvis, getting Larrier, MAL, Jackson, those are all strong recruits. Polley looks good and is a 4*.

But be honest about JCs misses in his last 5 years. 2010, Bazz, Lamb and Tyler and two zeros (once Roscoe left). 2009...Alex O contributed before leaving, but Trice? Smith? Jamal Coombs-McDaniel? Zip. Nothing. 2008, Kemba and four guys who did zero or never played. 2007...just Beverly. 2011 was a solid year, but Drummond and Daniels didn't stay long.
JC had a few hits, and a crapload of misses in that last 5 years.

 

[huskymedic]

Good diversion try - So back to the examples I gave - when an 8 ounce glass has 4 ounces in it - isn't it a fact that it's both half full and half empty?

Again, that's called PERSPECTIVE. It is a FACT that there are 4 ounces in the glass. Your perspective allows you to call it half empty or half full. Same exact thing applies to the example I already gave.

 

[Chief00]

View attachment 21263

And they are both facts

 

[UConNation]

^^^^ I have more success explaining logical thoughts to my 4 y/o son. Since I'm not responsible for raising Chief to be a functioning member of society, I'm going to give up on this one.

 

[Chief00]

^^^^ I have more success explaining logical thoughts to my 4 y/o son. Since I'm not responsible for raising Chief to be a functioning member of society, I'm going to give up on this one.

That sounds about your level.

 

[MuchoDogYears]

Didn't want to go all the way back to Charles Smith?

Time Machine!
Soup Campbell and Super John Williamson. And while we're at it, how's about Wes Matthews, Mike Gminski, John Bagley, John Pinone, John Garris, Michael Adams, and Rod (someone) who starred at UCLA.

 

[tykurez]

"I love UConn and I like KO and I really think he can do this and I'm a pro athlete so believe me I know - but Ollie kind of sucks and he better perform next year or else ... and his players aren't very good"

There - summed up this thread all neat and pretty.

 

[intlzncster]

I'll let the reader decide if recruiting has changed. These 5 players were Calhoun's starting 5 based on top recruits, in his last 5 years. I picked the last 5 years because Ollie has 5 recruiting classes. Granted, some of his recruits have unfinished resumes, and may turn out to be better, or worse than current perception, but for now, here is Calhoun's top 5 in his last 5 years:

C Drummond
F Daniels
F Lanb
G Napier
G Walker

OFF THE BENCH:

G Boatright
Best shooter: Giffey


Take a look at his top 5. Does Ollie have any player/players that crack that starting 5? Argue that some resumes are incomplete, I get that. Do you project any of Ollie's players past or present to crack the top 5? Right now the number is 0. That may change, but what if 1 or 2 do crack the top 5? Conceding that, which is a lot to concede, do you see the erosion in the level of talent? If nothing else is clear, that is.

EDIT: misread your post.

If JC hadn't left KO dumpster fire of sanctions, he might not have had that lull in transition.

As you stated the comparison is useless, You can only look at Ollie's 4 year guys to JC's fully formed four year guys for it to make any comparative sense whatsoever. Ollie's had one class. Not a big enough data point. And as I mentioned, that class came as a result of JC's sanctions.

I also get a kick out of all the guys comparing KO with....a TOP 5 coach of ALL time. It's banana land.

 

[intlzncster]

Very well stated, and thank you. The one thing I hear after every game from KO, is we have to work on this, we have to work on that. It is a constant. The problem is, if you recognize what is wrong, and you can't fix it, it means:

1) The kids are not buying in
2) The kids are trying hard, but are just not as good as the opponent
3) The coach is not getting the message through

What concerns me about these post-game pressers is Ollie sounds a lot like Diaco did, we have to fix things. That's ok, but when it becomes every loss, the same response, it gets old fast. The remedy is also starting to look like Diaco. We need to change things. So Diaco fires offensive coordinator, and KO...what happened to Miller? We don't know that whole story yet. We don't know why players are leaving that were sure to get a lot of court time next year either.

The AAC is slowly taking the bloom off the rose. That is an excuse though, why doesn't it impact Geno? Why doesn't anything impact Boise St football? The short answer is, when you have the right guys, in the right places, it doesn't matter.

Diaco's players weren't very good. KO is finally able to get his guys after the sanctions. Some can cut it, some can't. Looking forward to guys developing.

Why doesn't it impact Geno?? Dude, he's the greatest coach of all time by a mile, and came into the conference with a juggernaught already in place.

Like it or not, JC handed KO a very wounded program. If it wasn't for Kemba, UCONN might have been DOA when Ollie took over.

 

[Tenspro2002]

if 25 wins, a conf tournament title and a 2 round appearance qualify as a bad year then I guess 30 wins and a FF appearance is the only way to have a good season to you.

"25 wins and a conference tournament title" sounds good if you're in the 2000's Big East, but this was the 2016 AAC, with the best team barred from the conference tournament.

Call it what it was: a #9 seed and a 2nd round NCAAT appearance.

Since 1990, we've had only 8 seasons (out of 28) worse than that: 1993, 1997, 2001, 2007, 2010, 2012, 2015, 2017.

So, no, for a program of our caliber, a #9 seed and a 2nd round NCAAT appearance is not a good season.

 

[RUSS56]

I wrote a big response. But let's just cut to the chase. You're new here. I've been on this board in its different iterations since 2002-03, and others longer. One thing I learned was that people show up and say these sorts of things every few years. They did it to Calhoun then--and a few other times. People act like the sky is falling after bad years, and that everything needs to change. And then, invariably, the team bounces back and those people disappear.

Now, we haven't seen the bounce back with KO. But there are a host of reasons for that. We may, later, re-characterize those reasons--though valid--as mere excuses. But I'm willing to bet UConn is back to being UConn pretty soon.

That's a polite way of me saying that I hope very soon you no longer have a reason to post here, and the history of UConn suggests that this is true.

Well stated, except you got one wrong, I will be here.

 

[Tenspro2002]

That '14 team was not elite in any sense of the word and KO thoroughly outcoached Izzo, Donovan and Calipari (not that the latter is impressive) in succession to win the title.

KO got a very high-IQ team, that was tailored to the system he wants to run, to buy in and execute, particularly on defense. He benefited from having guys like Napier and Boatright who came in with a truckload of toughness, but KO also got those guys to work together.

He deserves credit, just like he deserves blame now for failing to bring in high-IQ and tough players, and for failing to get these players to run his system (or for failing to adjust his system to account for their weaknesses).

 

[huskyrob1]

Not sure he flunked out. Wasn't he involved in some off campus fight that got him kicked out?
I remember meeting Rick Pitino at the Wilton fieldhouse for the fciac finals. Harris was a baller. He should be on the list. #hatterhype

He had serious academic issues while at Cuse. Cleaned up his act though a couple years later at Hawaii.

 

[Mots010]

Calipari and Izzo coached better games against Ollie IMO. As a coach you can't prepare defensively for a 26' dagger 4-5 times a game with the shot clock under 5 seconds. That just breaks your back.

I challenge you to find 4-5 26 foot shots with under 5 seconds on the shot clock in each 2014 NCAA tournament game.

 

[intlzncster]

He deserves credit, just like he deserves blame now for failing to bring in high-IQ and tough players, and for failing to get these players to run his system (or for failing to adjust his system to account for their weaknesses).

You're not wrong he deserves blame, and everyone on here agrees, but the posters who are dubbed 'apologists' rightly point out that JC induced sanctions had a lot to do with the wealth of 'low basketball IQ' players. KO was very limited in what he could bring in, a situation compounded significantly by the retirement of a HOF coach who was the face of the program.

Some things you can't predict either. Back in 2014, would you take a former McD AA (Purvis) as a transfer and expect him to be a significant player as he matured? I'll answer for you: 100 times out of 100.

 

[nyhuskies13]

This threads HOT. Can I get involved??

Anyone care to summarize so I don't have to read 5 pages of work

 

[RUSS56]

Actually yes it happened a few times under Calhoun. Your perception of the program and the exact nature of what went on under Calhoun is part of the problem with your argument. The program wasn't flawless under Calhoun's tenure... there were a few dips in recruiting and wins... actually Ollie's dip while a bit more severe than most of Calhoun's falls into the pattern of a drop off every 3-5 years. That being said Calhoun NEVER had a year with injuries like Ollie had this year.

My perception is based on fact as much as possible, not memory, Calhoun was in 23 of 27 NCAA Tournaments his last 27 years, so 4 misses in almost 3 decades, if Ollie misses next year it will be 4 in 6.

 

[Inyatkin]

My perception is based on fact as much as possible, not memory, Calhoun was in 23 of 27 NCAA Tournaments his last 27 years, so 4 misses in almost 3 decades, if Ollie misses next year it will be 4 in 6.

Bad job by Ollie missing in 2013

 

[Inyatkin]

Bad job by Ollie missing in 2013

Also 2018, which hasn't happened yet. Unacceptable.

 

[intlzncster]

This threads HOT. Can I get involved??

Anyone care to summarize so I don't have to read 5 pages of work

If the rest of us have to slog through it, so do you. No escalators. Take the stairs.