Uconn ... the real story

[UConnDan97]

If you're going to use Diallo from Queens playing at Putnam as an example then let's start with the South Kent School. Notable alumni include Dorell Wright, Isaiah Thomas, Muarice Harkless, Russ Smith and Ricky Ledo. That's one school.

Also from that same school was Andre Blatche, who ended up going directly to the pros. Damn you, Calhoun!!!

#NotTheRealStory

 

[djct1999]

I actually thought of him but didn't mention him because I don't know if UCONN would have accepted him as a student. I think he was the only kid ever under Boeheim who was a academic redshirt, but even then he flunked out.

Not sure he flunked out. Wasn't he involved in some off campus fight that got him kicked out?
I remember meeting Rick Pitino at the Wilton fieldhouse for the fciac finals. Harris was a baller. He should be on the list. #hatterhype

 

[tzznandrew]

The bottom line is that the results just aren't there and nobody can dispute that.

But I can and do dispute that. He won a national title. We can agree the years after haven't been great, but we're just disagreeing about how much leeway to give someone who won a National Title, the very definition of results.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

The apologists are out in full force. The team has been bad for 3 straight years, and things don't look too promising for 2017-18 with only 2 fully healthy players returning.

The apologists will come up with excuse after excuse, year after after year. The bottom line is that the results just aren't there and nobody can dispute that.

And the icing on the cake is hiring an associate head coach who's last team went 9-22 and didn't win a game after January 18th. Yeah, he is going to help turn things around.

Some of us prefer to analyze things with as much context as can be gathered. Makes for a richer, more nuanced analysis. More can be learned and better decisions come from such broader perspectives, in my opinion.

You seem to be a bottom-line only kind of guy. That can have much value also, but less so when time and data are limited, like here.

We're getting to the point where the bottom line perspective should win out, but we're not there yet.

 

[crazyUCfan23]

He played in CT, and Dunn was on Ollie's watch, not Calhoun's. Name one CT kid that is in the NBA, or was in the NBA that Calhoun let get away the last 20 yrs?

Brian Gomes

 

[HuskyHawk]

Sadly, this is typical. Someone pulls 3 sentences from a long thought, and it becomes the narrative for the entire thread. There were 3 lines in what I wrote on CT kids, and this entire thread has become about the accuracy of that, as their obviously mistakes, not intent to deceive anyone. That wasn't the point of all that I wrote. Perhaps those fixated on the CT kids portion should read the rest.

It is typical. Your larger points were mostly accurate in my view. But as I've said before, we've got no options here but to ride this out and hope Ollie (and Dave B as appropriate) make the needed changes. We just ate $3M from an underwater athletics budget to get rid of Diaco. But there we had a clear upgrade path, and a guy who came in a little light on the salary side. With Ollie....there's nobody who is a clear upgrade who would consent to come here, and even if they would, the cost in buyout and new salary would swamp the whole department. Ollie has some issues to work through, but the changes I'm seeing encourage me if only because they suggest that he recognizes it. The man isn't a quitter and doesn't accept failure. Next season absolutely is critical, and I agree that his ability to recruit if we miss the tournament again will plummet.

The simple reality we need to wake up to is that like Gonzaga basketball and Boise State football, UConn basketball will get plenty of attention as long as our name shows up on the Top 25 ticker rolling at the bottom of ESPN. When it's not, we fall off the radar completely, because nobody cares about this conference. We can't afford to lose.

 

[KembaStepback]

The apologists are out in full force. The team has been bad for 3 straight years, and things don't look too promising for 2017-18 with only 2 fully healthy players returning.

The apologists will come up with excuse after excuse, year after after year. The bottom line is that the results just aren't there and nobody can dispute that.

And the icing on the cake is hiring an associate head coach who's last team went 9-22 and didn't win a game after January 18th. Yeah, he is going to help turn things around.

So it's National Title or failed season for you? Well ok. We won a title 3 yrs ago. We've been in the conference finals EVERY SINGLE YEAR before this one. We WON it last yr. Does winning the conference mean nothing? It what way is that a bad season?

This season was bad. Let's leave it at that and be positive toward next yr.

 

[spudzj6]

Russ - just to start - I do agree with a number of your points, albeit your take on most topics here feel as if you discuss things in a negative light - Ollie is a competitor, BUT // Larrier and Gilbert were good in their 3 games, BUT - almost like you have hope, but are not expecting things to get better. That is most likely why your taking flack from people on the board. When you are a bit negative and have a few factual errors, you will get hammered - happens to everyone - myself included. Just have to know going in if you say one thing wrong, your original post will be meaningless to many.

Anyway, while I agree with a number of points (conference and recruiting, attendance), I do want to throw out my take on a couple. #1 - You, and so many others, like to throw out the comparison of " JC would never" or "JC did it this way"... People need to stop comparing JC to KO. They are inherently linked through the UConn brand, but as a coach, they could not be more dissimilar. JC was a get in your face, tell you what he's thinking, 100% of the time kind of leader. KO is a motivational leader. JC was a coach before he came to UConn, he came through the ranks to get where he got. KO played ball, developed for 2 years under Calhoun, then was placed in a position of immense scrutiny right away (which I agree that it is fair to be critical of him), BUT he is a brand new coach. He didn't have the high school, to player development/video assistant, to associate head coach, to head coaching trail that so many coaches have. He relies heavily on his motivational tactics to get the most out of his guys every single day. He is not JC, and I don't think it's a fair assessment to judge his abilities/tactics to those of JC. Being critical about results is fair, but comparing leadership and styles of coaching - that's something that I don't see as a fair way to judge what his potential might be.

Lastly, I really can't stand the same old line that our RIVAL SCHOOLS like to use - "he won with Calhoun's guy's". Kevin Ollie was heavily involved in recruiting the 2013-2014 recruiting class. Yes, Calhoun was the coach in which the year the 14 champ recruits came aboard. But Kevin Ollie helped recruit, was able to keep Shabazz from transferring in 2012, then developed, and coached HIS TEAM to a title. Using the "Calhoun's guys" without giving some credit to KO is an excuse used to fit certain narratives. Stop selling the job KO did with those players short. If you are going to blame KO for the lack of results in the last couple of years, then you need to give him some credit for winning as well. Using the "Calhoun's guys" line completely discredits the job he did in bringing those recruits to Connecticut, and giving us our 4th title.

 

[Doginaus]

I have to agree with RUSS56, in his initial post, he presented an accurate assessment of the program as a whole since Kevin Ollie took over. I'm not bashing KO or anyone else for that matter, but, from what I've seen since Jim Calhoun took over the program to what it is now, we aren't even on the same page.

It is true, Jim Calhoun took over this program and built it from a regional power into a national power and winning 3 national championships along the way. Everyone knew who was in charge of this program, no doubt.

Speaking of recruiting, did Jim Calhoun get every high school recruit in the state of Connecticut, no, did Jim Calhoun get every high school recruit he had targeted, no, but, he did get the recruits that were best for what he wanted to do with his system and his program. In fact, there were many kids he didn't recruit because they weren't the type of kids he wanted for his program. Bottom line is this; we all know that Jim Calhoun knew what he wanted and he could recruit because the proof is he won 3 National Championships and had several of his players went on to have great careers in the NBA with a slam dunk future Hall of Famer.

Not to minimize Kevin Ollie and what he's done because last year, he had a great recruiting class; several 4 star bordering 5 star recruits and other possibly underrated players made up that great class. Previous recruiting classes haven't been as good as last years class, and we don't know what the future holds for upcoming classes.

It is possible that Jim Calhoun and Kevin Ollie have different philosophies when it comes to what they want in their programs and the types of players they recruit.

UCONN is nationally known, because of what Jim Calhoun has done, period. When Kevin Ollie took over the program, he took over a nationally known commodity that not only has name recognition but also has pedigree, 4 National Championship banners hang from the rafters at Gampel Pavilion as proof. We know what Jim Calhoun has done with the program, what has Kevin Ollie done with what he inherited? Yes, he won a National Championship in his second year of coaching, but not with his players. I'm not minimizing what he has done, I'm just asking what has he done with what he has recruited? We've won a few tournament games, agreed, but, we missed a couple of tournaments as well. Something is missing, not sure what it is either, but its just not there.

Does the AAC have something to do with it? I guarantee that has a pretty big part on why we don't get those top recruits to come to UCONN. We saw the respect this conference gets from the tournament committee, we had our two top teams seeded as #6's! Even though they lost early, they should have been seeded higher. Heck, we won the whole thing as #7 seed in 2014! My point here is that the blame is not all on Kevin Ollie, the conference we're in is part of the problem.

What we have not accomplished under Kevin Ollie is player development. The program needs to coach up these kids and not allow mediocrity to be the rule of the day. I understand "10 toes in" and "take the stairs and not the escalator", but, have we seen it? We had a Ferrari parked in the garage that sputtered when let out in the open road, who's fault is that? This past year, we played with 6 or 7 guys plus the walk-ons because the other players were out for the rest of the season with injuries, who's fault is that? In all honesty, we know the answer.

We've seen some recent changes made by Kevin Ollie and hopefully those changes will fix some of the things that has been a hindrance to the growth of this program. Whether we want to agree or not, leadership is not overrated. This program needs strong leadership, from the top on down.

Personally, I believe when you have strong leadership, you have a strong vision of what you want to accomplish and a strong willingness to go after it and, achieve it. That, I believe is one of the things that this program is missing. Kevin Ollie shouldn't be the players best friend, he needs to be their coach and lead them. Hey, sometimes strong leadership hurts feelings, but that's life.

RUSS56, you did a good job, and you're right, somehow a couple of sentences you wrote about recruiting kids in Connecticut were hijacked. That does not diminish all the other things you mentioned in your post.

Thanks for your post, it was needed.

 

[champs99and04]

I want this to be about UConn hoops and not me, but let me tell you about the time I was a star athlete in another sport anyway.

 

[hardcorehusky]

Can someone correct me on this if I am wrong? Didn't Dunn want to come here with Drummond but we had no scholarships available thanks to the APR issue? Drummond 'walked on" but Dunn couldn't do that?

 

[Danzz]

Can someone correct me on this if I am wrong? Didn't Dunn want to come here with Drummond but we had no scholarships available thanks to the APR issue? Drummond 'walked on" but Dunn couldn't do that?

No.

 

[aceboon]

The apologists are out in full force. The team has been bad for 3 straight years, and things don't look too promising for 2017-18 with only 2 fully healthy players returning.

The apologists will come up with excuse after excuse, year after after year. The bottom line is that the results just aren't there and nobody can dispute that.

And the icing on the cake is hiring an associate head coach who's last team went 9-22 and didn't win a game after January 18th. Yeah, he is going to help turn things around.

2015-2016 was a bad year? I agree that this year sucked and 2014-2015 wasn't good either(although basically 2 years of handicapped recruiting prior to that season contributed to that), but if 25 wins, a conf tournament title and a 2 round appearance qualify as a bad year then I guess 30 wins and a FF appearance is the only way to have a good season to you.

 

[RUSS56]

But I can and do dispute that. He won a national title. We can agree the years after haven't been great, but we're just disagreeing about how much leeway to give someone who won a National Title, the very definition of results.

This is troubling. KO gets credit for winning an NCAA Title. Can't take it away from him he did, but there is a caveat. Calhoun recruits scored 56 of the 60 points vs KY to win it.

 

[RUSS56]

I'll let the reader decide if recruiting has changed. These 5 players were Calhoun's starting 5 based on top recruits, in his last 5 years. I picked the last 5 years because Ollie has 5 recruiting classes. Granted, some of his recruits have unfinished resumes, and may turn out to be better, or worse than current perception, but for now, here is Calhoun's top 5 in his last 5 years:

C Drummond
F Daniels
F Lanb
G Napier
G Walker

OFF THE BENCH:

G Boatright
Best shooter: Giffey


Take a look at his top 5. Does Ollie have any player/players that crack that starting 5? Argue that some resumes are incomplete, I get that. Do you project any of Ollie's players past or present to crack the top 5? Right now the number is 0. That may change, but what if 1 or 2 do crack the top 5? Conceding that, which is a lot to concede, do you see the erosion in the level of talent? If nothing else is clear, that is.

 

[CTBasketball]

This is troubling. KO gets credit for winning an NCAA Title. Can't take it away from him he did, but there is a caveat. Calhoun recruits scored 56 of the 60 points vs KY to win it.

KO also coached 100% of those games. Calhoun coached 0% of those games.

 

[Hoophound]

No.

We don't know for sure. We didn't have a scholarship to offer Dunn. We didn't have one for Andre either. Wolfe, I believe, gave his to Drummond.

We didn't miss on Dunn but no one can say for sure he would have come to UConn if offered. Based on what I remember, I think he would have.

 

[RUSS56]

I want this to be about UConn hoops and not me, but let me tell you about the time I was a star athlete in another sport anyway.

Again typical. Pull one sentence out of a complete story that had nothing else to do with me, and make it about me. It is called a credibility reference, having played doesn't make me an authority, but I am not some incompetent kid off the street either. That was the soul purpose, sorry all you got out of it was me. I suggest you block that sentence out, and read it again, seems to be a lot you missed.

 

[HuskyFich]

We don't know for sure. We didn't have a scholarship to offer Dunn. We didn't have one for Andre either. Wolfe, I believe, gave his to Drummond.

We didn't miss on Dunn but no one can say for sure he would have come to UConn if offered. Based on what I remember, I think he would have.

Pretty sure it was the opposite. Drummond gave up his scholarship to allow Michael Bradley to stay on the team

 

[RUSS56]

KO also coached 100% of those games. Calhoun coached 0% of those games.

I agree, he won and coached every game to get them there. I guarantee you he never sniffs another one. I hope I'm wrong on that account, but I don't see it. He had an elite team, albeit none of his construction, and got them to win, nothing to argue about there. Tell me how his own kids are doing?

 

[UConnSwag11]

Very true and should be mentioned.

But it doesn't hide his deficiency to coach the game.

True offensively. He is the least exeperienced coach in the NCAA with 5 experience. I believe he will improve drastically

 

[Lefty2one]

I agree, he won and coached every game to get them there. I guarantee you he never sniffs another one. I hope I'm wrong on that account, but I don't see it. He had an elite team, albeit none of his construction, and got them to win, nothing to argue about there. Tell me how his own kids are doing?

That '14 team was not elite in any sense of the word and KO thoroughly outcoached Izzo, Donovan and Calipari (not that the latter is impressive) in succession to win the title.

 

[UConnSwag11]

I seem to remember a set of sanctions were in place and limited Ollie's recruiting until the 2015 class. Not sure though - I'm just a casual fan.

 

[ktuck911]

I have watched the mixed feelings in these forums over the last several months. I am a former Uconn All---Conference athlete. I was fortunate enough to go on to a professional career in the States and abroad. We are all Uconn-junkies, or at least I will speak on my own behalf...I am a Uconn Hoops junkie. before anyone takes a swat at what I am about to write, just know it is my personal observations. You may agree or disagree, certainly that is everyone's choice.

I've watched kids from the state, that seldom got away under Calhoun, slip through without much notice. Dunn to Providence, Heron to Auburn (leading scorer as a freshman), Diallo to KY, etal. This simply didn't happen under Calhoun, or at least as frequently. He shut the door on the Pressley's, the Pinnone's, the Jenson's as Rollie used to camp out in CT, he slammed that door shut.

I have no angst against Kevin Ollie, but some is starting to build. I have been in the sports world my whole life, and the business world for a good chunk of it as well. There is an old adage, "When a fish stinks, it stinks from the head." What exactly does that mean? It means the AD, and Kevin Ollie regarding Uconn basketball. Trouble is watching players get thrown out of the huddle, watching players fight (with words), on the court, more times than I cared to watch, watching JA get scolded by KO, and JA erupts back in KO's face. I guarantee you, if that was Jim Calhoun, Adams would of been in the locker room, done for the night.

I have issues with the entire coaching staff being all former guards. Does it matter? I believe it matters in 2 ways. recruiting against Uconn is going to point this out for any big man. Yes, a coach knows what to tell a big, and can coach him, but he never lived it, and that is tough.

Recruiting is getting harder and harder. WHY? The AAC is just not where it is at. case in point, just 3 players in the top 100 signed with AAC schools this year, and 2 of those were in the 90s. Why does this matter? It ultimately is going to weaken the conference, and as it is, SMU 30-4, is a #6 seed. Cincinnati, 29-5 is a #6 seed. They both got bounced early. The optics of that are not good. We have seen AAC teams with 23,24 wins the last few years left out of the Big Dance. WHY? Because the opportunity for quality wins is very limited. You have to win 25 games in this conference to be a sure thing, 23/24 maybe 50-50. Uconn can no longer schedule 4-5 big out-of-conference games, they have to be like Geno, and schedule almost every game vs a top 25 team. If not, accept the fact that 23 wins, 24 wins may not be enough.

What has happened the last week or so, is not the problem, it is a symptom of a much bigger problem. I don't know KO, all I have heard and seen is he is a great guy, and I assume that is correct. You are what your record says you are, but the winning team he had was with a bunch of Calhoun's kids. he made the tournament one time with his own kids, on an answered 70 ft. prayer heave by Adams. What's next?

First off, Ollie is going nowhere, as Benedict locked him up for 5 years, and his stock once extremely high, has taken a big hit. he is a competitor supreme, his resume in the NBA is proof of that. He will take this personally, and what that means is he will rise above it all, and succeed, or fall flat on his face, in over his head. That script has yet to be written.

Larrier and Gilbert only played 3 games, and while they looked promising, that script is not written either. Theyfaced Wagner, northeastern, and Loyola,Marymount, 3 cupcakes, and did a respectable job. It would be easy to pencil them in for great careers, but we don't have that answer yet. Larrier is now 2 full years away from competition, Gilbert 1. It may matter, it may not.

If Ollie wins 23+ games with this team, as presently constituted next year, he did a fantastic job. If he makes the NCAA Tournament, he did an incredible job. If he doesn't, it will make his job unreasonably difficult going forward, as the perception of the public, the recruits, the coaches recruiting against them, will be Uconn is no longer Uconn, it would be 4 of 6 years out of the Dance, Calhoun missed it 4 times in his final 22 years, and if Ollie reaches 4 whiffs in 6 years, it will spell huge problems.

This brings me to the point of all this. Next season is as critical of a season for Uconn, perhaps in their history. Regardless of your feelings right now, and they are probably concerned, wounded, or carry on, don't under-estimate the need for every body in the stands, every cheer and reassurance one can give, because this is the biggest moment for Uconn basketball in our lifetimes, it is the biggest oment for everyone associated with Uconn basketball.

let's take what we have been gifted to, and not expect it, but put all your will into making it continue, and hopefully that trickles down to coaches and players. GO UCONN!

Props to you on your pro-career but I think that time away from UConn disengaged you from Storrs a bit... quite a bit...

 

[UConnSwag11]

We didn't have to make a thread about posters who only show up when there's negative news and never when there's anything positive to discuss. This one has them all. Pin it