UCONN Ban Appeal Denied

[Gurleyman]

Okwandu graduated. He led the student processional on graduation day. The guys who transferred out for basketball reasons like Trice and Haralson you can't say we failed - they just wanted playing time. Certainly can't say we failed with Oriakhi. And don't forget, Robinson was only in school 7 semesters since he took personal time off.

But yes - this was a bad stretch for us. We've had trouble with retention for a while, and this stretch was when it was at it's worst.

 

[freescooter]

I'm not saying the NCAA's penalty is fair - I don't think it is fair to apply this standard retroactively. But let's not pretend like UConn doesn't deserve a lot of blame and criticism here. I think programs should make it their goal for a kid to leave with a degree, and/or as a 1st round pick. Otherwise, it's a failure. As of right now, everyone in the 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes are still at UConn. We can look at the 4 previous classes (2006, 2007, 2008, 2009) where 100% of the players are now gone.

Since 2006, the following have left UConns basketball program without a degree or being a 1st round NBA pick:
Jamal Trice, Jonathon Mandeldove, Charles Okwandu, Darius Smith, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel, Alex Oriachi, Ater Majok, Nate Miles, Scottie Harlason, Doug Wiggins, Curtis Kelly, Ben Eaves, Stanley Robinson.

Since 2006, the following have left UConn with a degree and/or being a first round pick:
Hasheem Thabeet, Jermoe Dyson, Kemba Walker, Donnell Beverly.

In my opinion, UConn has failed with 13/17 of those kids. 2/17 kids in the NBA. 3/17 kids with degrees. I think that is disgusting, and an embarrassment. And I was born in CT, I've been a UConn fan since I can remember, have a sister about to get her MD from UConn, and a dad with a masters from UConn. I'm not some outsider that dislikes the program - one of my earliest memories in life is giving Chris Smith a high five (hence the handle). I love the university and the program.

While I truly hope the NCAA looks at the more recent data and the current kids don't get punished for Calhoun's and others mistakes, if not, I blame Calhoun more than the NCAA.

Chris, I'm a UCONN alumnus, a former UCONN athlete and I've been a UCONN fan for over 40 years. I still get to a few games every year for football, basketball, ice hockey (go Hockey East!!!) and baseball, and even the occassional soccer program. My daughter is enrolled in the medical school and another is pursuing a PhD in Storrs...and I agree with every thing you wrote.

 

[CL82]

I really liked Manuel's response.

Up to know UConn has been pretty passive about the inherent unfairness of designing and implementing a penalty scheme that punishes Connecticut twice for a single bad year. Remember that there was no mathematical possibility that UConn could comply with the current rule so long as 2008 scores were used. It's time to put the pressure on the NCAA to address why they feel it's approriate to gerrymander a system to cause us lose post season eligibility. Manual's response is the first waive of that. If he and Herbst are as good as I think they may be, we should start seeing more on this.

 

[caw]

I'm not saying the NCAA's penalty is fair - I don't think it is fair to apply this standard retroactively. But let's not pretend like UConn doesn't deserve a lot of blame and criticism here. I think programs should make it their goal for a kid to leave with a degree, and/or as a 1st round pick. Otherwise, it's a failure. As of right now, everyone in the 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes are still at UConn. We can look at the 4 previous classes (2006, 2007, 2008, 2009) where 100% of the players are now gone.

Since 2006, the following have left UConns basketball program without a degree or being a 1st round NBA pick:
Jamal Trice, Jonathon Mandeldove, Charles Okwandu, Darius Smith, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel, Alex Oriachi, Ater Majok, Nate Miles, Scottie Harlason, Doug Wiggins, Curtis Kelly, Ben Eaves, Stanley Robinson.

Since 2006, the following have left UConn with a degree and/or being a first round pick:
Hasheem Thabeet, Jermoe Dyson, Kemba Walker, Donnell Beverly.

In my opinion, UConn has failed with 13/17 of those kids. 2/17 kids in the NBA. 3/17 kids with degrees. I think that is disgusting, and an embarrassment. And I was born in CT, I've been a UConn fan since I can remember, have a sister about to get her MD from UConn, and a dad with a masters from UConn. I'm not some outsider that dislikes the program - one of my earliest memories in life is giving Chris Smith a high five (hence the handle). I love the university and the program.

While I truly hope the NCAA looks at the more recent data and the current kids don't get punished for Calhoun's and others mistakes, if not, I blame Calhoun more than the NCAA.

I don't agree with a few things, if a player leaves UConn and graduates from another D1 school, that is not a failure on UConn. That happens to a lot of kids that are not athletes. There are plenty of reasons to leave a college if you aren't an athlete, an athlete simply has those reasons and a few others (PT, getting along with coaches, etc.)

Second, I thought Chuck graduated?

Third, where is Craig?

Fourth, I don't blame UConn for Miles at all. He broke a restraining order and was kicked out, that's on him.

The rest is OK.

 

[champs99and04]

I'm not saying the NCAA's penalty is fair - I don't think it is fair to apply this standard retroactively. But let's not pretend like UConn doesn't deserve a lot of blame and criticism here. I think programs should make it their goal for a kid to leave with a degree, and/or as a 1st round pick. Otherwise, it's a failure. As of right now, everyone in the 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes are still at UConn. We can look at the 4 previous classes (2006, 2007, 2008, 2009) where 100% of the players are now gone.

Since 2006, the following have left UConns basketball program without a degree or being a 1st round NBA pick:
Jamal Trice, Jonathon Mandeldove, Charles Okwandu, Darius Smith, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel, Alex Oriachi, Ater Majok, Nate Miles, Scottie Harlason, Doug Wiggins, Curtis Kelly, Ben Eaves, Stanley Robinson.

Since 2006, the following have left UConn with a degree and/or being a first round pick:
Hasheem Thabeet, Jermoe Dyson, Kemba Walker, Donnell Beverly.

In my opinion, UConn has failed with 13/17 of those kids. 2/17 kids in the NBA. 3/17 kids with degrees. I think that is disgusting, and an embarrassment. And I was born in CT, I've been a UConn fan since I can remember, have a sister about to get her MD from UConn, and a dad with a masters from UConn. I'm not some outsider that dislikes the program - one of my earliest memories in life is giving Chris Smith a high five (hence the handle). I love the university and the program.

While I truly hope the NCAA looks at the more recent data and the current kids don't get punished for Calhoun's and others mistakes, if not, I blame Calhoun more than the NCAA.

I pretty much disagree with all of this post. I would wager that there are very few basketball programs in the country that do a better job of preparing their athletes for a career and for life than UConn. In a perfect world every kid would get his degree. That's just not realistic when you consider these kids are flying across the country to play games during the winter, attending grueling practices every day of the week, and accepting invitations to skills camps during the summer. A degree is an option available to everybody at any age. These kids have a short window to capitilize on their basketball talents. Of course, the ironic part is that nobody has capitilized on these kids more than the NCAA. If you're mad at Calhoun and not the NCAA, I'm not sure you fully understand the situation. It's a nice move the NCAA is making from a PR standpoint, but when you dig deeper, all you find is five feet of .

Let's look at the names of kids who didn't receive their degree or become a first round pick in the last six years:

Jamal Trice--transfer
Jonathon Mandeldove--either really dumb or lazy as *k. the staff did everything they could with this kid
Charles Okwandu--as others have pointed out, Chuck got his degree last year Darius Smith--transfer
Jamal Coombs-McDaniel--transfer
Alex Oriachi--transfer
Ater Majok--Dire financial situation, left early and became a second round pick because he needed the money.
Nate Miles--Kicked out of the school due to dicipline problems
Scottie Harlason--transfer
Doug Wiggins--transfer,
Curtis Kelly--transfer
Ben Eaves--transfer
Stanley Robinson--missed a semester, became second round pick

In my opinion, nearly all of these kids have a valid excuse for why they did not receive their degree from the University of Connecticut. The only kid you could blame UConn for is Mandeldove, and we really don't know what his situation was like. Again, it baffles me that people continue to argue that kids transferring should reflect poorly on the teams academic performance. If a kid transfers without his degree, 99.999% of the time it is because he either wasn't happy with playing time, or didn't agree with the coaching staff.

 

[Vuce]

Chris, I'm a UCONN alumnus, a former UCONN athlete and I've been a UCONN fan for over 40 years. I still get to a few games every year for football, basketball, ice hockey (go Hockey East!!!) and baseball, and even the occassional soccer program. My daughter is enrolled in the medical school and another is pursuing a PhD in Storrs...and I agree with every thing you wrote.

Except for the FACT that he is wrong with his "Uconn failed 13 out of 17" number. When he throws kids like OKwandu who graduated and even AO whose GPA is fine right off the bat he is wrong. So basically you agree with his misinformation and misleading "facts". You did say you agree with everything he wrote.

 

[upstater]

is it still going to go through the NCAA for a decision... i know the committee on academic performance denied them but it sounds like theres still more to it... am i reading this wrong?

I still wonder why U Louisiana - X was given a waiver and not UConn.

 

[upstater]

I'm not saying the NCAA's penalty is fair - I don't think it is fair to apply this standard retroactively. But let's not pretend like UConn doesn't deserve a lot of blame and criticism here. I think programs should make it their goal for a kid to leave with a degree, and/or as a 1st round pick. Otherwise, it's a failure. .

You need to read up on the APR rules. APR doesn't give you a leg up for leaving with a degree. It's not what the APR is about.

 

[BarkingDog]

I still wonder why U Louisiana - X was given a waiver and not UConn.

Because the University of Lousiana-Monroe won something like 3 games this past season and is no danger of making the tournament next year.
What fun is it to ban them?

 

[upstater]

Except for the FACT that he is wrong with his "Uconn failed 13 out of 17" number. When he throws kids like OKwandu who graduated and even AO whose GPA is fine right off the bat he is wrong. So basically you agree with his misinformation and misleading "facts". You did say you agree with everything he wrote.

I know. What a bizarre post.

 

[upstater]

Because the University of Lousiana-Monroe won something like 3 games this past season and is no danger of making the tournament next year.
What fun is it to ban them?

Well, the ban is for next year. I hear they will have a powerhouse team, but now everyone is transferring to Kentucky.

 

[upstater]

In the future, I'm only going to write APR in this fashion: aPR... emphasis on the PR

 

[Inyatkin]

Except for the FACT that he is wrong with his "Uconn failed 13 out of 17" number. When he throws kids like OKwandu who graduated and even AO whose GPA is fine right off the bat he is wrong. So basically you agree with his misinformation and misleading "facts". You did say you agree with everything he wrote.

You can't trust anyone who calls it UCONN. It's not an acronym. UConn. Not that hard.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

The rule being applied retroactively isn't fair.

The actual metric of the APR could certainly be called into question as well as it is very flawed.

That being said - how are the only schools that violated the threshold UConn and UL-Monroe?

As flawed and unfair as the whole situation is - god damn there's what 300+ D1 men's basketball teams that didn't violate the APR?

 

[TheChamps990411]

I think the reason uconn is getting the one year ban is because the ncaa sees it as uconn got away with getting to a final four with players who were not meeting the academic standards in 09` so they want to get even by leaving us out at all costs next year. its not fair to the kids but i dont think they give a damn they want blood

 

[champs99and04]

The rule being applied retroactively isn't fair.

The actual metric of the APR could certainly be called into question as well as it is very flawed.

That being said - how are the only schools that violated the threshold UConn and UL-Monroe?

As flawed and unfair as the whole situation is - god damn there's what 300+ D1 men's basketball teams that didn't violate the APR?

Not exactly true. We don't know what teams are ineligable for the tournament until this years scores come out. UConn was one of the few schools with such a poor 2009-10 score, that even a perfect 2010-11 score wouldn't be able to keep them above water. Last I checked, there would have been something like 13 schools ineligable based on the 09-10 scores, including Syracuse and Florida State.

 

[champs99and04]

I think the reason uconn is getting the one year ban is because the ncaa sees it as uconn got away with getting to a final four with players who were not meeting the academic standards in 09` so they want to get even by leaving us out at all costs next year. its not fair to the kids but i dont think they give a damn they want blood

I don't think that is the case at all. If UConn had players not fulfilling their academic requirements during the winter or fall semester of the 09 season, they would have been deemed academically ineligable for the tournament. It was the surplus of transfers that really did UConn in regarding the APR.

 

[johnhuskies95]

The rule being applied retroactively isn't fair.

The actual metric of the APR could certainly be called into question as well as it is very flawed.

That being said - how are the only schools that violated the threshold UConn and UL-Monroe?

As flawed and unfair as the whole situation is - god damn there's what 300+ D1 men's basketball teams that didn't violate the APR?

If they don't use the most recent scores, Syracuse will be banned from the 2014 tourney.

 

[Inyatkin]

NCAA guy says: “Schools have known since 2006 that APRs below 900 could result in serious penalties including postseason restrictions. The same standards are applied to each institution; to ensure all data are comparable for each team, there is a necessary lag time in calculating all the scores at a national level."

Does this sound at all familiar? Since 2006? Where is this coming from?

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Not exactly true. We don't know what teams are ineligable for the tournament until this years scores come out. UConn was one of the few schools with such a poor 2009-10 score, that even a perfect 2010-11 score wouldn't be able to keep them above water. Last I checked, there would have been something like 13 schools ineligable based on the 09-10 scores, including Syracuse and Florida State.

Ah ok, gotcha. Still seems sort of ridiculous that using the 2 year window that is banning us from the 2013 NCAAs it's just us and UL-Monroe.

 

[upstater]

The rule being applied retroactively isn't fair.

The actual metric of the APR could certainly be called into question as well as it is very flawed.

That being said - how are the only schools that violated the threshold UConn and UL-Monroe?

As flawed and unfair as the whole situation is - god damn there's what 300+ D1 men's basketball teams that didn't violate the APR?

This has been said a number of times , but there are 13 BCS schools that fell under the threshold for this year. They would have been banned had the NCAA decided to punish those teams this year. Some bigtime teams, like Syracuse.

 

[businesslawyer]

The rule being applied retroactively isn't fair.

The actual metric of the APR could certainly be called into question as well as it is very flawed.

That being said - how are the only schools that violated the threshold UConn and UL-Monroe?

As flawed and unfair as the whole situation is - god damn there's what 300+ D1 men's basketball teams that didn't violate the APR?

That's fair. And if you want to blame the university for failing to meet an arbitrary standard that was not reflective of anything, but could lead to embarasment and punishment, go right ahead. You are not alone.

But that is very different than the posts saying UConn failed kids who left to have more playing time elsewhere, or to pursue a career playing basketball overseas. If Gavin Edwards didn't want to finish off his degree to prepare for tryouts for the best overseas opportunity available, that was his choice. When grown men make choices about their career futures, it is not reflective on the university they happen to be at. It is their right and their responsibility. And unless you know that the University stopped supporting him academically, which no one has even alleged, it is not a question of the university having done anything wrong.

Someone screwed up and didn't make sure we played the game properly. But UConn's failure was no more or less than that.

 

[businesslawyer]

NCAA guy says: “Schools have known since 2006 that APRs below 900 could result in serious penalties including postseason restrictions. The same standards are applied to each institution; to ensure all data are comparable for each team, there is a necessary lag time in calculating all the scores at a national level."

Does this sound at all familiar? Since 2006? Where is this coming from?

It's vague to the point of being disingenuous. Yes, people knew since '06 that bad things would happen if you didn't meet the standards. But the bad things were the known loss of scholarships. No one was told it could cost you a tournament ban until, in UConn's case, it was too late to make sufficient improvement in the time allotted.,

 

[upstater]

NCAA guy says: “Schools have known since 2006 that APRs below 900 could result in serious penalties including postseason restrictions. The same standards are applied to each institution; to ensure all data are comparable for each team, there is a necessary lag time in calculating all the scores at a national level."

Does this sound at all familiar? Since 2006? Where is this coming from?

The same guy lied about UConn having several years of bad APR scores.

 

[upstater]

I'll say this again: UConn's punishment is the same as North Carolina football's. Academic cheating scandal and $$$ to players.

Same thing.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

That's fair. And if you want to blame the university for failing to meet an arbitrary standard that was not reflective of anything, but could lead to embarasment and punishment, go right ahead. You are not alone.

BL - I'm not pointing the blame at anyone in particular. I'm just somewhat amazed that out of every single program in America, that for this years NCAA Tournament it's just UL-Monroe and UConn facing a ban. I realize other posters have noted that if different scores were used other programs would be banned - but this is where it stands now.

The APR is a ridiculous measure to evaluate academic success/achievement and certainly don't blame the players that left in order to better their futures. However, players transfer everywhere and players leave for the NBA everywhere. How did we let this slip through the cracks? Honest question - not meant to be accusatory at all.

 

[upstater]

BL - I'm not pointing the blame at anyone in particular. I'm just somewhat amazed that out of every single program in America, that for this years NCAA Tournament it's just UL-Monroe and UConn facing a ban. I realize other posters have noted that if different scores were used other programs would be banned - but this is where it stands now.

The APR is a ridiculous measure to evaluate academic success/achievement and certainly don't blame the players that left in order to better their futures. However, players transfer everywhere and players leave for the NBA everywhere. How did we let this slip through the cracks? Honest question - not meant to be accusatory at all.

They don't leave with unfinished work. If they leave in April after the tourney, they will have already taken enough credits in summer and winter intersessions. Then they can either take a couple half-semester courses in the spring or they can withdraw. It's only the kids who haven't built enough credits for the year and who then leave in mid-spring that present a problem.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

They don't leave with unfinished work. If they leave in April after the tourney, they will have already taken enough credits in summer and winter intersessions. Then they can either take a couple half-semester courses in the spring or they can withdraw. It's only the kids who haven't built enough credits for the year and who then leave in mid-spring that present a problem.

Thanks for the clarification upstater.

Now that I understand the calculation - who's responsibility is it to make sure that the kid's are getting enough credits in? Like I said before, I would imagine other big time programs have transfers and kid's going to the NBA or playing overseas - are the other programs facing these issues just flat out lying?

 

[upstater]

Thanks for the clarification upstater.

Now that I understand the calculation - who's responsibility is it to make sure that the kid's are getting enough credits in? Like I said before, I would imagine other big time programs have transfers and kid's going to the NBA or playing overseas - are the other programs facing these issues just flat out lying?

It's impossible to get enough credits in unless you take fluff courses. If you leave mid-semester, you have to cut corners, one way or another.

 

[ChrisSmith]

Thats about as simplistic a view as the APR has. Also Chuck Okwandu graduated I asked him a few weeks ago.

Ben Eaves graduated from URI, Curtis Kelly also graduated from K-State. Haralson is on pace to graduate from Tulane. Majok and Robinson were both 2nd round picks. I see nothing wrong with Majok's situation. Robinson and Edwards (who you forgaot) are examples of the clasic case of the APR screwing a senior.

You can't make kids stay if they want to transfer...

I am not placing all the blame on the APR but the system is flawed and all UConn had to do was forge a few credits like I am convinced other schools are doing.

Unlike you I am not disgusted

Thanks for the correction on Okwandu - I was under the impression he had not graduated. I would more him to the success category.

Majok and Robinson may have been second round picks, but that doesn't gurantee you any money. I don't believe either has had more than a cup of coffee in the NBA, if that. Both Robinson and Majok have suggested it was not completely their decision to leave school.

With regards to the transfers, I think the extraordinarily high number of transfers is a sign of a problem itself. Calhoun attempted to fill the roster for a year with kids - not necessarily graduate them or get them into the NBA. Some of the kids with NBA talent didn't have the right character - and perhaps Calhoun overlooked that because of their talent.

Over a 4 year period, what, 5/17 kids graduated and/or were first round picks. Posters can try to qualify that number all they want, but it speaks for itself. It's a big enough sample it doesn't like like an aberration.