UCONN Ban Appeal Denied

[champs99and04]

The rule being applied retroactively isn't fair.

The actual metric of the APR could certainly be called into question as well as it is very flawed.

That being said - how are the only schools that violated the threshold UConn and UL-Monroe?

As flawed and unfair as the whole situation is - god damn there's what 300+ D1 men's basketball teams that didn't violate the APR?

Not exactly true. We don't know what teams are ineligable for the tournament until this years scores come out. UConn was one of the few schools with such a poor 2009-10 score, that even a perfect 2010-11 score wouldn't be able to keep them above water. Last I checked, there would have been something like 13 schools ineligable based on the 09-10 scores, including Syracuse and Florida State.

 

[champs99and04]

I think the reason uconn is getting the one year ban is because the ncaa sees it as uconn got away with getting to a final four with players who were not meeting the academic standards in 09` so they want to get even by leaving us out at all costs next year. its not fair to the kids but i dont think they give a damn they want blood

I don't think that is the case at all. If UConn had players not fulfilling their academic requirements during the winter or fall semester of the 09 season, they would have been deemed academically ineligable for the tournament. It was the surplus of transfers that really did UConn in regarding the APR.

 

[johnhuskies95]

The rule being applied retroactively isn't fair.

The actual metric of the APR could certainly be called into question as well as it is very flawed.

That being said - how are the only schools that violated the threshold UConn and UL-Monroe?

As flawed and unfair as the whole situation is - god damn there's what 300+ D1 men's basketball teams that didn't violate the APR?

If they don't use the most recent scores, Syracuse will be banned from the 2014 tourney.

 

[Inyatkin]

NCAA guy says: “Schools have known since 2006 that APRs below 900 could result in serious penalties including postseason restrictions. The same standards are applied to each institution; to ensure all data are comparable for each team, there is a necessary lag time in calculating all the scores at a national level."

Does this sound at all familiar? Since 2006? Where is this coming from?

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Not exactly true. We don't know what teams are ineligable for the tournament until this years scores come out. UConn was one of the few schools with such a poor 2009-10 score, that even a perfect 2010-11 score wouldn't be able to keep them above water. Last I checked, there would have been something like 13 schools ineligable based on the 09-10 scores, including Syracuse and Florida State.

Ah ok, gotcha. Still seems sort of ridiculous that using the 2 year window that is banning us from the 2013 NCAAs it's just us and UL-Monroe.

 

[upstater]

The rule being applied retroactively isn't fair.

The actual metric of the APR could certainly be called into question as well as it is very flawed.

That being said - how are the only schools that violated the threshold UConn and UL-Monroe?

As flawed and unfair as the whole situation is - god damn there's what 300+ D1 men's basketball teams that didn't violate the APR?

This has been said a number of times , but there are 13 BCS schools that fell under the threshold for this year. They would have been banned had the NCAA decided to punish those teams this year. Some bigtime teams, like Syracuse.

 

[businesslawyer]

The rule being applied retroactively isn't fair.

The actual metric of the APR could certainly be called into question as well as it is very flawed.

That being said - how are the only schools that violated the threshold UConn and UL-Monroe?

As flawed and unfair as the whole situation is - god damn there's what 300+ D1 men's basketball teams that didn't violate the APR?

That's fair. And if you want to blame the university for failing to meet an arbitrary standard that was not reflective of anything, but could lead to embarasment and punishment, go right ahead. You are not alone.

But that is very different than the posts saying UConn failed kids who left to have more playing time elsewhere, or to pursue a career playing basketball overseas. If Gavin Edwards didn't want to finish off his degree to prepare for tryouts for the best overseas opportunity available, that was his choice. When grown men make choices about their career futures, it is not reflective on the university they happen to be at. It is their right and their responsibility. And unless you know that the University stopped supporting him academically, which no one has even alleged, it is not a question of the university having done anything wrong.

Someone screwed up and didn't make sure we played the game properly. But UConn's failure was no more or less than that.

 

[businesslawyer]

NCAA guy says: “Schools have known since 2006 that APRs below 900 could result in serious penalties including postseason restrictions. The same standards are applied to each institution; to ensure all data are comparable for each team, there is a necessary lag time in calculating all the scores at a national level."

Does this sound at all familiar? Since 2006? Where is this coming from?

It's vague to the point of being disingenuous. Yes, people knew since '06 that bad things would happen if you didn't meet the standards. But the bad things were the known loss of scholarships. No one was told it could cost you a tournament ban until, in UConn's case, it was too late to make sufficient improvement in the time allotted.,

 

[upstater]

NCAA guy says: “Schools have known since 2006 that APRs below 900 could result in serious penalties including postseason restrictions. The same standards are applied to each institution; to ensure all data are comparable for each team, there is a necessary lag time in calculating all the scores at a national level."

Does this sound at all familiar? Since 2006? Where is this coming from?

The same guy lied about UConn having several years of bad APR scores.

 

[upstater]

I'll say this again: UConn's punishment is the same as North Carolina football's. Academic cheating scandal and $$$ to players.

Same thing.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

That's fair. And if you want to blame the university for failing to meet an arbitrary standard that was not reflective of anything, but could lead to embarasment and punishment, go right ahead. You are not alone.

BL - I'm not pointing the blame at anyone in particular. I'm just somewhat amazed that out of every single program in America, that for this years NCAA Tournament it's just UL-Monroe and UConn facing a ban. I realize other posters have noted that if different scores were used other programs would be banned - but this is where it stands now.

The APR is a ridiculous measure to evaluate academic success/achievement and certainly don't blame the players that left in order to better their futures. However, players transfer everywhere and players leave for the NBA everywhere. How did we let this slip through the cracks? Honest question - not meant to be accusatory at all.

 

[upstater]

BL - I'm not pointing the blame at anyone in particular. I'm just somewhat amazed that out of every single program in America, that for this years NCAA Tournament it's just UL-Monroe and UConn facing a ban. I realize other posters have noted that if different scores were used other programs would be banned - but this is where it stands now.

The APR is a ridiculous measure to evaluate academic success/achievement and certainly don't blame the players that left in order to better their futures. However, players transfer everywhere and players leave for the NBA everywhere. How did we let this slip through the cracks? Honest question - not meant to be accusatory at all.

They don't leave with unfinished work. If they leave in April after the tourney, they will have already taken enough credits in summer and winter intersessions. Then they can either take a couple half-semester courses in the spring or they can withdraw. It's only the kids who haven't built enough credits for the year and who then leave in mid-spring that present a problem.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

They don't leave with unfinished work. If they leave in April after the tourney, they will have already taken enough credits in summer and winter intersessions. Then they can either take a couple half-semester courses in the spring or they can withdraw. It's only the kids who haven't built enough credits for the year and who then leave in mid-spring that present a problem.

Thanks for the clarification upstater.

Now that I understand the calculation - who's responsibility is it to make sure that the kid's are getting enough credits in? Like I said before, I would imagine other big time programs have transfers and kid's going to the NBA or playing overseas - are the other programs facing these issues just flat out lying?

 

[upstater]

Thanks for the clarification upstater.

Now that I understand the calculation - who's responsibility is it to make sure that the kid's are getting enough credits in? Like I said before, I would imagine other big time programs have transfers and kid's going to the NBA or playing overseas - are the other programs facing these issues just flat out lying?

It's impossible to get enough credits in unless you take fluff courses. If you leave mid-semester, you have to cut corners, one way or another.

 

[ChrisSmith]

Thats about as simplistic a view as the APR has. Also Chuck Okwandu graduated I asked him a few weeks ago.

Ben Eaves graduated from URI, Curtis Kelly also graduated from K-State. Haralson is on pace to graduate from Tulane. Majok and Robinson were both 2nd round picks. I see nothing wrong with Majok's situation. Robinson and Edwards (who you forgaot) are examples of the clasic case of the APR screwing a senior.

You can't make kids stay if they want to transfer...

I am not placing all the blame on the APR but the system is flawed and all UConn had to do was forge a few credits like I am convinced other schools are doing.

Unlike you I am not disgusted

Thanks for the correction on Okwandu - I was under the impression he had not graduated. I would more him to the success category.

Majok and Robinson may have been second round picks, but that doesn't gurantee you any money. I don't believe either has had more than a cup of coffee in the NBA, if that. Both Robinson and Majok have suggested it was not completely their decision to leave school.

With regards to the transfers, I think the extraordinarily high number of transfers is a sign of a problem itself. Calhoun attempted to fill the roster for a year with kids - not necessarily graduate them or get them into the NBA. Some of the kids with NBA talent didn't have the right character - and perhaps Calhoun overlooked that because of their talent.

Over a 4 year period, what, 5/17 kids graduated and/or were first round picks. Posters can try to qualify that number all they want, but it speaks for itself. It's a big enough sample it doesn't like like an aberration.

 

[ChrisSmith]

You need to read up on the APR rules. APR doesn't give you a leg up for leaving with a degree. It's not what the APR is about.

I didn't mention the APR once. I'm talking about my own personal view on what I would like to see student-athletes get from UConn and other universities - guaranteed money, a degree, or both.

 

[Gurleyman]

We had a wave of issues in the 2009-10 years. Nate Miles was an 0-for-2, as was Mandeldove and Darius Smith. Those are heavy deductions. Okwandu was academically ineligible after his first semester in 2009 but straightened it all out and graduated. Two of the guys who completed their eligibilty (Price and Robinson) missed semesters with medical/personal issues. Edwards supposedly just didn't feel like finishing to focus on workouts but just needs to make up less than a semester's worth of credits. Then Haralson, Trice and Majok left, and it depends on what their academic status was as to how many points they cost.

Once the house was cleaned up and Kemba and Donnell were leading a young team, everyone fell in line and got the grades with the likely exception of Jamal Coombs-McDaniel, who plainly didn't want to be led by anyone.

 

[upstater]

I didn't mention the APR once. I'm talking about my own personal view on what I would like to see student-athletes get from UConn and other universities - guaranteed money, a degree, or both.

And I'd like to see them get ponies, but we're talking about UConn being banned today for a bad aPR.

 

[upstater]

Thanks for the correction on Okwandu - I was under the impression he had not graduated. I would more him to the success category.

Majok and Robinson may have been second round picks, but that doesn't gurantee you any money. I don't believe either has had more than a cup of coffee in the NBA, if that. Both Robinson and Majok have suggested it was not completely their decision to leave school.

With regards to the transfers, I think the extraordinarily high number of transfers is a sign of a problem itself. Calhoun attempted to fill the roster for a year with kids - not necessarily graduate them or get them into the NBA. Some of the kids with NBA talent didn't have the right character - and perhaps Calhoun overlooked that because of their talent.

Over a 4 year period, what, 5/17 kids graduated and/or were first round picks. Posters can try to qualify that number all they want, but it speaks for itself. It's a big enough sample it doesn't like like an aberration.

Anyone who has been reading this board knows that plenty of us would not mind higher standards. But if graduation is the standard, then punish schools who don't graduate kids. Is UConn the outlier in such a situation? No.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I think the reason uconn is getting the one year ban is because the ncaa sees it as uconn got away with getting to a final four with players who were not meeting the academic standards in 09` so they want to get even by leaving us out at all costs next year. its not fair to the kids but i dont think they give a damn they want blood

I'm not sure that they want blood but they absolutely want a body and we happen to be the perfect body. Our mot recent national title is still very fresh in everyone's eyes. They NCAA can claim that they will go after anyone because of this. We are not one of the historic programs and we don't play football in a power conference so they have no qualms with throwing us in jail for not coming to a full stop before turning right at an intersection.

This also isn't about our getting to a final four on '09 with a number of kids who didn't meet academic standards, it is about holding up the '11 national champions as a trophy demonstrating that nothing matters more than the student athlete (I almost threw up while typing that).

They are punishing us excessively and while I have nothing more than a gut feeling to go on, I am convinced they decided before enacting the new rule in October that we were going to be punished. They formulated the criteria after the fact to ensure that e had no way of complying. I see no other explanation for setting in motion a new standard based entirely on a period of time that had completely passed.

 

[ChrisSmith]

Anyone who has been reading this board knows that plenty of us would not mind higher standards. But if graduation is the standard, then punish schools who don't graduate kids. Is UConn the outlier in such a situation? No.

I'm not talking about the APR or UConn's punishment. I'm talking about what I would personally like to see from the UConn program and other programs as a stakeholder.

 

[uconnfan68]

I'm not saying the NCAA's penalty is fair - I don't think it is fair to apply this standard retroactively. But let's not pretend like UConn doesn't deserve a lot of blame and criticism here. I think programs should make it their goal for a kid to leave with a degree, and/or as a 1st round pick. Otherwise, it's a failure. As of right now, everyone in the 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes are still at UConn. We can look at the 4 previous classes (2006, 2007, 2008, 2009) where 100% of the players are now gone.

Since 2006, the following have left UConns basketball program without a degree or being a 1st round NBA pick:
Jamal Trice, Jonathon Mandeldove, Charles Okwandu, Darius Smith, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel, Alex Oriachi, Ater Majok, Nate Miles, Scottie Harlason, Doug Wiggins, Curtis Kelly, Ben Eaves, Stanley Robinson.

Since 2006, the following have left UConn with a degree and/or being a first round pick:
Hasheem Thabeet, Jermoe Dyson, Kemba Walker, Donnell Beverly.

In my opinion, UConn has failed with 13/17 of those kids. 2/17 kids in the NBA. 3/17 kids with degrees. I think that is disgusting, and an embarrassment. And I was born in CT, I've been a UConn fan since I can remember, have a sister about to get her MD from UConn, and a dad with a masters from UConn. I'm not some outsider that dislikes the program - one of my earliest memories in life is giving Chris Smith a high five (hence the handle). I love the university and the program.

While I truly hope the NCAA looks at the more recent data and the current kids don't get punished for Calhoun's and others mistakes, if not, I blame Calhoun more than the NCAA.

It's hardly fair to count transfers against us. They technically left of their own accord. That's 9 of 13.

 

[uconnfan68]

Anyone who has been reading this board knows that plenty of us would not mind higher standards. But if graduation is the standard, then punish schools who don't graduate kids. Is UConn the outlier in such a situation? No.

Like UK? Nah, won't happen in your lifetime. Those rednecks know what to squeeze for the NCAA to listen.

 

[Northbound]

I struggle with the idea that the university failed the kids. At some point it's a joint effort.....I've been to plenty of forced study halls with tutors and I might as well have been eating paint chips in the corner because I didn't want to be there, but I checked the box that I was there (that's lack of participation is on me, not the university). When the university sets up an academic support system and gives kids no choice but to attend the kids make a choice whether to really be a participant in that situation or just play along.

Upstater maybe you can help me here because it's been a while for me. When do you know that a kid is at the edge of the cliff academically for any particular class? I guess if it's a class with lectures and one final you really never know until the kid craps the bed on the final. The reason I ask is if you know X% of the way through the semester then the staff should know that too because they should be checking in with professors regularly. If a kids academics are less than ideal the big threat is to place that kid on the pine as I know of no better way to get an athletes attention. That bench is a great motivator be it to get in better shape or improve the grades and if the staff didn't do their due diligence regarding academic progression and take the appropriate steps to provide the motivation to the athlete (i.e. arse on bench) to increase there academic participation and elevate grades then that's on the staff.

I'd like higher standards I just think the barn door on that was opened a long time ago and with the money involved for multiple parties (NCAA, media companies, schools, sporting goods manufacturers, etc.) there is little incentive to elevate standards and change the model.

 

[UConnSwag11]

Miami better get the death penalt. I mean wasn't uncs punishment light? What about fsu a few years ago?