UConn/ACC

[btstimpy]

I didnt realize you carried so much influence in the Cav administration that you could speak on there behalf? Change is inevitable esp in areas like Va/NC where yankee influence is changing old views. No one ever thought PSU was a midwestern school either...now Md/NJ/NYC metro with much denser concentrations of people....perceptions can change unlike some people!! I knew this post by upstater would nag you.

With a good friend on the Board of Visitors and another one in the Athletics Department, I do have a good idea what they think. No I don't speak for them, but what they say when they do speak is exactly what I'm saying. UVA is in the best conference for UVA now and going forward. You don't leave one of the nation's fastest growing regions collectively, which the ACC is located in, to go hang out in the nation's slowest growing region. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever on a long term time horizon. And no one in the region is interested in the Big Ten trying to annex the region including the current fans of the Big Ten.

Good Luck to Rutgers and Maryland in the Big Ten.

 

[dayooper]

Dennis Dodd also had Clemson and FSU going to the Big XII. He can be like the Dude of WV sometimes. He's a Big XII homer. The B1G did whiff on Notre Dame big time. The B1G didn't really whiff on the others because they were never available. So it settled for Rutgers and Maryland. The B1G did float the idea of joining to the other three (UVA/GT/UNC) in 2012, and was told thanks, but no thanks. There isn't anything really to cause a change of heart on the horizon. Dennis Dodd came out with a column over the weekend talking about the Maryland and Rutgers additions, and he floats his UVA/UNC/GT idea in it. Here it is:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...onal-title-drought-by-adding-rutgers-maryland

I can come back with my own speculation as well. Maryland and Rutgers have been looked at since 2009. They were vetted and have had the financials run well before Nov 2012. Jim Delaney stated that The Big10 did a poor job assimilating PSU into the Big10 and didn't want to make that same mistake again. They brought in UNL to make things even and waited until they were comfortably in (four years) before they added more.

Whether UVA/UNC/GT were also courted, I really don't know. To say they "settled" on teams they believed would fit and make them a bunch of money is arrogant bias.

 

[btstimpy]

Why, because there is the train of thought that the ACC, playing second fiddle in most states, is in a very precarious position. The lack of money while stuck in a contract that will pay less than every other conference, up to $25million less per team than their direct competitors, The Big10 and The SEC. That's until 2025. You pride your olympic sports programs, but they cost money. What happens if the proposals from The Big10, SEC, and PAC12 go through? How will you afford to support those programs? Wasn't there just a panel of ACC ADs talking about how they weren't going to be able to afford the proposed changes? UVA is not financial trouble right now, but the university has to decide how they are going to proceed. If The ACC continues to lag behind as far as they are projected to, it will make a difference in how go about their academic business. The changes may not take place, but the finances of their competitors will. This doesn't include the exposure aspect that the school loses having most of their football games on ESPN2 and ESPNU outside of Virginia (if at all).

UVA administration may be very happy with that. They may want to downgrade to an Ivy league like status and I would never berate them for it. They may de-emphasize their football and/or basketball programs. They may have to subsidize form their general fund. They may not have to do anything. Just like you, we are all speculating on what will happen.

Whether true or not, there were many rumors that UVA was in talks with the Big10. They fit the profile of a Big10 school (large, flagship, highly rated research university) and fit the population demographic well, too. The popular belief is that UVA would never want to go to The SEC and, if they went to another major conference, it would be The Big10.

I completely understand why you say the fans are happy. I'm sure most are. There are some that have big issues with the direction the ACC is going on a few aspects, but my guess is that over 90% of the alumni are happy with the ACC. Unfortunately, what the fans and alumni want isn't always what is best for the school. College football is what it is because of tradition. Most fans don't follow a school because of a player, they follow the school. Either it's a link to the place where their liver were transformed, or great times they had there. I wish that Michigan would play for the Little Brown Jug every year. I wish that we could play Illinois (don't ask me, I can't explain) more often. In today's world, it's not happening.

Now, you asked why? These are my reasons. I have no clue that The Big10 is expanding. I think that they are and UVA is one they like.

The prevailing opinion within the ACC and at UVA is that the $25 million of which you speak will never materialize. There is a lot going on behind the scene that will surprise from the ACC in short order, but we need to get the NCAA changes and the Maryland exit behind us before they happen. We have Georgia Bulldog fans coming on the UVA board every week lately talking about how much money the SEC Channel will make, trying to talk us into joining the SEC, and they get run off pretty quick.

The video from the ADs was interesting, but the apprehension was just due to not knowing the outcome. If the requirements become too expensive, you'll need to worry more about a school like Maryland than the ACC will ab0ut Wake Forest. Wake has a lot of money. Maryland is the one in financial difficulty. So it doesn't make sense for the P5 to pass stuff that runs off Washington State, Mississippi, Kansas State, Rutgers, and Maryland because they can't afford it. So everyone needs to be careful. Not everyone has the money of Ohio State, Stanford, and Texas. Not everyone needs to have it either.

 

[btstimpy]

How did the B1G whiff on ND??

By not allowing them to join as a non-football member, ala the BE and ACC??

Or, do you mean in 1890's/1900's when they didn't allow them to join the Western Conf??

No the B1G did not allow ND to join as a non football member. This is true. And now ND will not be playing any B1G schools in football once the existing contracted games conclude. If the B1G never wanted ND as a member, it didn't whiff. If it did, you can do the analysis.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Everybody gets so defensive around here. Sorry folks, UNC and UVA are staying put. They have a nice solid conference, with a demographic profile the B1G would drool over. I am sure the ACC wishes they still had South Carolina and Maryland. Major screw-up but not fatal. FSU is not going to the Big XII, which is the least stable P5 conference and nobody else is close.

UNC is a sleeping giant....it is Texas/Ohio State/Michigan level potentially, but has never put it all together. The state itself is going gangbusters. That's why the B1G wants it, and why UNC doesn't need the B1G.

 

[btstimpy]

I can come back with my own speculation as well. Maryland and Rutgers have been looked at since 2009. They were vetted and have had the financials run well before Nov 2012. Jim Delaney stated that The Big10 did a poor job assimilating PSU into the Big10 and didn't want to make that same mistake again. They brought in UNL to make things even and waited until they were comfortably in (four years) before they added more.

Whether UVA/UNC/GT were also courted, I really don't know. To say they "settled" on teams they believed would fit and make them a bunch of money is arrogant bias.

I've pretty much run out of things to say about Maryland and Rutgers that I haven't already said, and the UConn fans don't really want us non UConn folks debating it anymore. I know UVA was courted. I can't speak for UNC or GT, but that is the speculation.

We can revisit the idea of the Big Ten when the ACC contracts expire in 2027. Until now, UVA is happy in the ACC. I'll leave it at that.

 

[upstater]

Why do you keep thinking this? UVA is very happy where it is, and there isn't anyone currently in the administration interested in any other conference besides the ACC. The fan base isn't interested in changing either. If you're looking for someone in a P5 to make a move, the best bet is Texas or Oklahoma. Both have seriously looked into it before.

Because where it is won't be where it is in 5 years. That's why.

These conferences are going to explode. The money difference between them will be huge. When half your conference games are against teams you don't recognize, the heartstrings of familiarity wane and the pull of money tugs at you harder. It's definitely going to happen.

 

[Cleanface]

No the B1G did not allow ND to join as a non football member. This is true.

Damn right. That's because the Big Ten doesn't allow potential members to set the terms of their membership.

The Big Ten sets the terms of membership. No one gets special treatment.

The ACC on the other-hand, bent over and let ND set their own terms. Unlike the ACC, we don't need to kowtow to schools like ND to keep our head above water.

 

[ArizonaKnight]

No the B1G did not allow ND to join as a non football member. This is true. And now ND will not be playing any B1G schools in football once the existing contracted games conclude. If the B1G never wanted ND as a member, it didn't whiff. If it did, you can do the analysis.

If the B1G added Notre Dame to the Eastern Division tomorrow that would become the 4th most anticipated game on Rutgers' annual schedule after Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State. That's not a knock on ND, it just is what it is.

 

[Cleanface]

What's funny to me is that these ACC posters act like ND joining as a partial/non-football member, and them getting some pity FBall games in return, was some big GET for them.

ND bailed on the BE and was prowling around looking for the next big, dumb, fat, desperate dolt of a Conference that it could sink it's leech-y talons into. And the big dummy ACC came strolling right along.

ND is completely PLAYING the entire ACC, and the ACC schools act like they won some big completion by snagging the Domers.

I must give the Domers credit for it tho, they are a diabolical bunch. Completely and utterly hilarious.

 

[dayooper]

The prevailing opinion within the ACC and at UVA is that the $25 million of which you speak will never materialize. There is a lot going on behind the scene that will surprise from the ACC in short order, but we need to get the NCAA changes and the Maryland exit behind us before they happen. We have Georgia Bulldog fans coming on the UVA board every week lately talking about how much money the SEC Channel will make, trying to talk us into joining the SEC, and they get run off pretty quick.

The video from the ADs was interesting, but the apprehension was just due to not knowing the outcome. If the requirements become too expensive, you'll need to worry more about a school like Maryland than the ACC will ab0ut Wake Forest. Wake has a lot of money. Maryland is the one in financial difficulty. So it doesn't make sense for the P5 to pass stuff that runs off Washington State, Mississippi, Kansas State, Rutgers, and Maryland because they can't afford it. So everyone needs to be careful. Not everyone has the money of Ohio State, Stanford, and Texas. Not everyone needs to have it either.

Just wondering, what are these behind the scenes things that make up the $25 million?

 

[ArizonaKnight]

Just wondering, what are these behind the scenes things that make up the $25 million?

Bake sale?

 

[dayooper]

Everybody gets so defensive around here. Sorry folks, UNC and UVA are staying put. They have a nice solid conference, with a demographic profile the B1G would drool over. I am sure the ACC wishes they still had South Carolina and Maryland. Major screw-up but not fatal. FSU is not going to the Big XII, which is the least stable P5 conference and nobody else is close.

UNC is a sleeping giant....it is Texas/Ohio State/Michigan level potentially, but has never put it all together. The state itself is going gangbusters. That's why the B1G wants it, and why UNC doesn't need the B1G.

UNC is no sleeping giant in football. They are a basketball school first and the alumni/fans see it that way. Any football coach that can raise them up will be snatched up by a football power. Football will always be 2nd fiddle to basketball there.

As far as UNC/UVA staying put, they very well may. They might not. Anybody not named Delany, Swofford, Slive, or the involved university presidents and the counsel who says they know for sure are talking out the rear end.

I agree that The ACC isn't a bad conference, never said it was. Just like each of the conferences, they have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

[btstimpy]

Just wondering, what are these behind the scenes things that make up the $25 million?

Let me run a couple of ideas by you. NBC Sports/Comcast has Notre Dame's home football games. Since NBC/Comcast missed out on the Big East/AAC, and they are still starved for College Athletics content to go with the English Premier League. What would you think of the idea of NBC Sports picking up a P5 conference to go with Notre Dame Football to have a Conference Channel with Notre Dame football with automatic distribution on Comcast nationwide at good rates, and their confidence in getting other cable subscribers to pick it up? There might be a conference out there that Notre Dame knows who might have some good content for such a channel, and they can introduce NBC to that group since they know them to make an offer. But that conference might already be in a contract with ESPN/Disney that can be renegotiated in 2017 open to competition with a NBC bid. That bunch, ESPN/Disney, just launched a SEC channel that looks successful so far. What about that bunch talking their two conferences SEC and ACC into a scheduling alliance where ESPN/Disney can have two conference channels and show games from teams of both conferences on the two channels getting both good distribution in the combined states of the two conferences?

Nah. Just rumor mill stuff. Nevermind. The Big Ten is going to rule the industry, and everyone wants to join.

 

[Fishy]

So, wait.

You think NBC is going to pick up a P5 conference, of which there are none available, and then create a sport channel for that conference? And they'll immediately put that channel on their parent company's network and arrange to have themselves paid back "at a good rate"? And, of course, Notre Dame will make the introductions because Notre Dame is forever looking out for the sorta-conference partners.

And this will happen in 2017 because ESPN has a contract with them that allows them to magically erase it.

You live in a fantasy world.

 

[ArizonaKnight]

Let me run a couple of ideas by you. NBC Sports/Comcast has Notre Dame's home football games. Since NBC/Comcast missed out on the Big East/AAC, and they are still starved for College Athletics content to go with the English Premier League. What would you think of the idea of NBC Sports picking up a P5 conference to go with Notre Dame Football to have a Conference Channel with Notre Dame football with automatic distribution on Comcast nationwide at good rates, and their confidence in getting other cable subscribers to pick it up? There might be a conference out there that Notre Dame knows who might have some good content for such a channel, and they can introduce NBC to that group since they know them to make an offer. But that conference might already be in a contract with ESPN/Disney that can be renegotiated in 2017 open to competition with a NBC bid. That bunch, ESPN/Disney, just launched a SEC channel that looks successful so far. What about that bunch talking their two conferences SEC and ACC into a scheduling alliance where ESPN/Disney can have two conference channels and show games from teams of both conferences on the two channels getting both good distribution in the combined states of the two conferences?

Nah. Just rumor mill stuff. Nevermind. The Big Ten is going to rule the industry, and everyone wants to join.

So if I understand you correctly, your proposed solution to the revenue gap will be an offer from NBC (or renegotiation with ESPN) which will pay the ACC an additional $700,000,000.00 annually?

My back of napkin math...
$25MM X 14 teams = $350MM
$350MM X 2 (ESPN needs their cut) = $700MM

That's one heck of a renegotiation.

 

[Cleanface]

Let me run a couple of ideas by you. NBC Sports/Comcast has Notre Dame's home football games. Since NBC/Comcast missed out on the Big East/AAC, and they are still starved for College Athletics content to go with the English Premier League. What would you think of the idea of NBC Sports picking up a P5 conference to go with Notre Dame Football to have a Conference Channel with Notre Dame football with automatic distribution on Comcast nationwide at good rates, and their confidence in getting other cable subscribers to pick it up? There might be a conference out there that Notre Dame knows who might have some good content for such a channel, and they can introduce NBC to that group since they know them to make an offer. But that conference might already be in a contract with ESPN/Disney that can be renegotiated in 2017 open to competition with a NBC bid. That bunch, ESPN/Disney, just launched a SEC channel that looks successful so far. What about that bunch talking their two conferences SEC and ACC into a scheduling alliance where ESPN/Disney can have two conference channels and show games from teams of both conferences on the two channels getting both good distribution in the combined states of the two conferences?

Awesome.

CR interweb insanity is the greatest thing ever.

 

[btstimpy]

So, wait.

You think NBC is going to pick up a P5 conference, of which there are none available, and then create a sport channel for that conference? And they'll immediately put that channel on their parent company's network and arrange to have themselves paid back "at a good rate"? And, of course, Notre Dame will make the introductions because Notre Dame is forever looking out for the sorta-conference partners.

And this will happen in 2017 because ESPN has a contract with them that allows them to magically erase it.

You live in a fantasy world.

Noodle on those two ideas. They aren't mine. Notre Dame stands to gain from a channel for its not football programs. It wouldn't be looking for its sorta-conference partners. It would be looking out for itself. 2017 is the year that the ACC has the competitive review in the contract with ESPN. Yes. And yes NBC Sports is hungry for college content. They wanted the Big East in tact with the AAC, but the split and Fox entering the picture spoiled that party.

I do know that the ACC wants to stay with ESPN if possible for a channel. So the second idea is the most probable. But it will need to be more lucrative than the first.

 

[Fishy]

You're badly misinterpreting the ACC contract - there's no out in 2017.

 

[UConn990411]

The ACC wants to stay with ESPN because it has no other options.

 

[btstimpy]

The ACC wants to stay with ESPN because it has no other options.

The ACC wants to stay with ESPN because it is the worldwide leader in sports programming, and the imitation networks have not proven to unseat it. The kids that the ACC coaches recruit watch ESPN. The new basketball coach that left Marquette for Virginia Tech expressed his concern that the Big East is now lost on FS1 and his recruits can't find it. The ACC doesn't want that, and NBCsports net is a risk.

 

[justinslot]

Remember when NBC was going to save the Big East with a megadeal since they were the last BCS conference without a contract? Yeeeaaaahhhh...

Stimpy, for the record, I don't get you. You're a UVA fan. UVA was (arguably) the snottiest school in a reputation sense in the old ACC--you know, the ACC that had a coherent academic/regional identity, even if it was composed of unlike institutions (flagships, second-tier big publics, privates.) UVA is now in a kludge league with no identity other than ESPN's grab bag of stuff they couldn't find a place for elsewhere. UVA has been given a forced crossover rivalry with a glorified community college with a moneymaking arena--the most unlike to UVA member of the ACC. UVA now borders the one "resource" league that has a coherent academic identity (and the two bordering members are old friends and rivals of UVA.) This can't possibly be a stable situation for UVA--and there's no way the people who run UVA can be happy with this situation long term--but you argue in favor of it. Shouldn't you be arguing to get into the wealthier, more academically prestigious league that's chock full of UVA-like research powerhouses that would love to have you and out of the kludge league?

 

[btstimpy]

You're badly misinterpreting the ACC contract - there's no out in 2017.

I don't have the contract language specifically, but in 2017 and in 2022 there are "look in" terms for reviewing the contract and adjusting the rates and terms and addressing the market viability of a network, etc. It's a 15 year contract with two adjustment period built into it. There are things ESPN will need to do at those points to keep it moving forward. There are things that the ACC will need to do at those points as well.

 

[btstimpy]

Remember when NBC was going to save the Big East with a megadeal since they were the last BCS conference without a contract? Yeeeaaaahhhh...

Stimpy, for the record, I don't get you. You're a UVA fan. UVA was (arguably) the snottiest school in a reputation sense in the old ACC--you know, the ACC that had a coherent academic/regional identity, even if it was composed of unlike institutions (flagships, second-tier big publics, privates.) UVA is now in a kludge league with no identity other than ESPN's grab bag of stuff they couldn't find a place for elsewhere. UVA has been given a forced crossover rivalry with a glorified community college with a moneymaking arena--the most unlike to UVA member of the ACC. UVA now borders the one "resource" league that has a coherent academic identity (and the two bordering members are old friends and rivals of UVA.) This can't possibly be a stable situation for UVA--and there's no way the people who run UVA can be happy with this situation long term--but you argue in favor of it. Shouldn't you be arguing to get into the wealthier, more academically prestigious league that's chock full of UVA-like research powerhouses that would love to have you and out of the kludge league?

I don't particularly care for Louisville as the designated rival for UVA, and Virginia Tech isn't particularly married to Boston College. I've suggested many places included on the VT board that we swap. But it's for only one football game a year, so it's not the end of the world. Maybe when the league gets to 16 that problem will not exist any longer.

I like the ACC and don't view it as a kluge. I like the geography of it, and being in the midatlantic we have lots of students from the northeast, midatlantic and southeast as students and alumni. The school isn't midwestern in any way and doesn't belong in a midwestern league. That's why I've advocated for schools like UConn, Temple, Navy, etc. before someone like Cincinnati. I can't do anything about Louisville, the football members really wanted them. I'm comfortable with the east coast from top to bottom, and like the idea of a league covering most of it. And UVA is very comfortable going toe to toe with private schools.

The Big Ten is a prestigious league in the midwest. There is no question. It's just not our league, and being out on the distant corner of it geographically isn't all that appealing. Best of luck to Rutgers and Maryland, but we're happy where we are.

 

[Cleanface]

Noodle on those two ideas.

Hahaha. "Noodle".




BTW - just wanted to send my own good luck wishes to Rutgers and Maryland. Best of luck to Rutgers and Maryland. Seriously. I mean it. Thanks.