UCLA goes down to Utah

[visitingcock]

I watched the entire game and the Baylor KState game. Watching UConn play defense and watching these 4 teams not much of a comparison. UCLA I agree is good but I wasnt impressed with the team overall. Same with UTAH. Baylor and KState not much to say about either team. Their defense was not good. No go to player. What was that at the end of the game throwing the ball at the basket. Wasnt there a play designed to run? KState is not a top 4 team. It will be interesting this week to see what happens. Thursday SC plays LSU. That should be a good game. Saturday nite ND at UConn. This game could get ugly fast for ND. They have not played well when pressed and their bigs are slow. The biggest factor could be NDs bigs guarding Paige and Ash. Both are quicker and good pull up jumpers.

Tony: I know you love your UConn defense and it is good. However, K-State's defense is pretty good too. K-State is 3rd in scoring defense in the nation. That's dadgumm good especially since they have played Iowa- twice. UConn is 64th in scoring defense.

If you want to look at Massey's defensive efficiency to account for UConn's tougher schedule, UConn is ranked at 5th and K-State 7th. Pretty dadgum close.

Simply put, K-States defense is not bad, It's very good. It may slightly off without their anchor, Lee, but they still held a ranked team to 55 points without her.

Maybe you are right K-State is not the #4 team. Coaches Poll just ranked them number 2!

 

[hoopsnloops32]

Tony: I know you love your UConn defense and it is good. However, K-State's defense is pretty good too. K-State is 3rd in scoring defense in the nation. That's dadgumm good especially since they have played Iowa- twice. UConn is 64th in scoring defense.

If you want to look at Massey's defensive efficiency to account for UConn's tougher schedule, UConn is ranked at 5th and K-State 7th. Pretty dadgum close.

Simply put, K-States defense is not bad, It's very good. It may slightly off without their anchor, Lee, but they still held a ranked team to 55 points without her.

K-State is actually second in scoring defense in the country at at 72.9 points per 100 possession and UConn is a at 46 with 83.6 points per 100 possession. That's not adjusted for SOS but I hate when people site numbers that aren't adjusted to pace.

 

[Vowelguy]

Don't think that was the point and that poster didn't say they weren't impressed by UCLA. They're just pointing out that the UConn team from November wouldn't be the one UCLA faces now. And the same could be said about UCLA. It would be an interesting rematch at this point of the season.

The OG post literally said "I wasnt impressed with [ucla] overall."

 

[cancontent]

The OG post literally said "I wasnt impressed with [ucla] overall."

With you're reply going to someone else, it can interpreted that you're directing that opinion to them.

 

[visitingcock]

nd create fancier and fancier databases to

K-State is actually second in scoring defense in the country at at 72.9 points per 100 possession and UConn is a at 46 with 83.6 points per 100 possession. That's not adjusted for SOS but I hate when people site numbers that aren't adjusted to pace.

OPINION: No. They are actually 4th in the country based on allowing only 52.1 points per game. Pace doesn't matter in determining who wins 40 minute games. Time does. Pace is meaningless. Whoever scores most and limits their opponents the most in 40 minutes wins.

You are a great poster but you buy into the algorithm driven push to over analyze the game. I don't. it's all opinion.

 

[BRS24]

Quiet sports night yesterday here at the homestead, so we watched the game. As much recognition as Pili gets, I kept screaming when she went into the paint with at least two defenders blocking the way, and then forcing up a shot. Is this normal? is she expecting a call? Perhaps this wasn't a good representation of her skill set, however we both were a bit unimpressed.

 

[CalWBBfan]

Quiet sports night yesterday here at the homestead, so we watched the game. As much recognition as Pili gets, I kept screaming when she went into the paint with at least two defenders blocking the way, and then forcing up a shot. Is this normal? is she expecting a call? Perhaps this wasn't a good representation of her skill set, however we both were a bit unimpressed.

I don't think it was one of her better games, but other times I have seen her play I've been very impressed overall.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

nd create fancier and fancier databases to



OPINION: No. They are actually 4th in the country based on allowing only 52.1 points per game. Pace doesn't matter in determining who wins 40 minute games. Time does. Pace is meaningless. Whoever scores most and limits their opponents the most in 40 minutes wins.

You are a great poster but you buy into the algorithm driven push to over analyze the game. I don't. it's all opinion.

The reason points per game not adjusted is meaningless to me in terms of how good of a defense you have is that it doesn't take into account offense impacts on scoring.

• Team A: pushes pace averages 80 possessions a game and holds teams to 70 points per game
• Team B: slows the game down averages 60 possessions per game and holds a team to 70 points per game

Non-adjusted those teams look similar defensively but team A is a vastly better defensive team.

 

[visitingcock]

The reason points per game not adjusted is meaningless to me in terms of how good of a defense you have is that it doesn't take into account offense impacts on scoring.

• Team A: pushes pace averages 80 possessions a game and holds teams to 70 points per game
• Team B: slows the game down averages 60 possessions per game and holds a team to 70 points per game

Non-adjusted those teams look similar defensively but team A is a vastly better defensive team.

But not to me. Regardless of the pace they have both done the same job. They have held their opponent to the same score. in 40 minutes of play. Number of possessions does not affect the win or loss. Only the score matters.

 

[Vowelguy]

The reason points per game not adjusted is meaningless to me in terms of how good of a defense you have is that it doesn't take into account offense impacts on scoring.

• Team A: pushes pace averages 80 possessions a game and holds teams to 70 points per game
• Team B: slows the game down averages 60 possessions per game and holds a team to 70 points per game

Non-adjusted those teams look similar defensively but team A is a vastly better defensive team.

But not to me. Regardless of the pace they have both done the same job. They have held their opponent to the same score. in 40 minutes of play. Number of possessions does not affect the win or loss. Only the score matters.

Points per possession would seem like a better metric. Team A's defense gives up 0.875 pt per possession, while Team B gives up 1.167.
Team A significantly better defense.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

But not to me. Regardless of the pace they have both done the same job. They have held their opponent to the same score. in 40 minutes of play. Number of possessions does not affect the win or loss. Only the score matters.

They haven't done the same job though. One team gave them selves a much better chance to win the game than other.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

Points per possession would seem like a better metric. Team A's defense gives up 0.875 pt per possession, while Team B gives up 1.167.
Team A significantly better defense.

Points per possession is exactly what adjusted defensive efficiency is which is what I am advocating for.

 

[Tonyc]

If an unimpressive team built up a 20+ point lead over UConn, I fear how we would fare against an impressive team.

We played UCLA when we were dismantled with Injuries. I would welcome to play them now.

 

[Tonyc]

Tony: I know you love your UConn defense and it is good. However, K-State's defense is pretty good too. K-State is 3rd in scoring defense in the nation. That's dadgumm good especially since they have played Iowa- twice. UConn is 64th in scoring defense.

If you want to look at Massey's defensive efficiency to account for UConn's tougher schedule, UConn is ranked at 5th and K-State 7th. Pretty dadgum close.

Simply put, K-States defense is not bad, It's very good. It may slightly off without their anchor, Lee, but they still held a ranked team to 55 points without her.

Maybe you are right K-State is not the #4 team. Coaches Poll just ranked them number 2!

Youve brought up some good points. Their star is out. UConns 5 stars are out and UConn is clicking. I would like to face KState but that wont happen. Maybe it will take a few games for KState to adapt to their star not being on the floor and I understand that because UConn has had to do that too. Last nites game against Baylor did not impress me either team did not impress me. UConn is right now at a completely different level then most teams in WCBB. Can you imagine what could happen next season if UConn is healthy?

 

[GamecockFam]

They haven't done the same job though. One team gave them selves a much better chance to win the game than other.

I think what visitingcock is trying to say is that the game has varying strategies used to win. One of the defensive strategies could be to limit the number of possessions by using the entire clock on offense. So while your numbers would be accurate if both teams had the same amount of opportunities, it isn't based in reality because the game is dictated by how those minutes are strategically used. I think you both are arguing different metrics. You're argument is basically like gathering data from a science experiment conducted a vacuum, whereas visitingcock is trying to measure outcomes with all potential factors that may affect the end result in a realistic scenario. Part of being an elite defense is also limiting turnovers on offense, getting rebounds, limiting the number of possessions, etc. The effects those numbers may have on defensive stats will not be reflected in your data.

 

[nwhoopfan]

What about the opposite though? If you are limiting possessions during a game, you are giving yourself less opportunities to score, which makes it harder to win, right? You better be efficient in those limited possessions, or your offensive production isn't going to be very good.

I tend to agree with the point of view that the game is 40 minutes long, how many points you allow in those 40 minutes is the statistic that matters most.

 

[GamecockFam]

What about the opposite though? If you are limiting possessions during a game, you are giving yourself less opportunities to score, which makes it harder to win, right? You better be efficient in those limited possessions, or your offensive production isn't going to be very good.

I tend to agree with the point of view that the game is 40 minutes long, how many points you allow in those 40 minutes is the statistic that matters most.

Because they were having a conversation about defense.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

I think what visitingcock is trying to say is that the game has varying strategies used to win. One of the defensive strategies could be to limit the number of possessions by using the entire clock on offense. So while your numbers would be accurate if both teams had the same amount of opportunities, it isn't based in reality because the game is dictated by how those minutes are strategically used. I think you both are arguing different metrics. You're argument is basically like gathering data from a science experiment conducted a vacuum, whereas visitingcock is trying to measure outcomes with all potential factors that may affect the end result in a realistic scenario. Part of being an elite defense is also limiting turnovers on offense, getting rebounds, limiting the number of possessions, etc. The effects those numbers may have on defensive stats will not be reflected in your data.

My argument is not gathering data into a a science experiment in any way shape or form. It's literally evaluation how good of a defensive team someone is based on the ability to prevent the other team for scoring. Rebounds, turnovers, etc are ALL factured into my numbers. Visitingcock isn't measuring outcomes at all, just looking at a random number that means very little about how good of a defensive team you are. That in fact is the vacuum number that doesn't account for ANYTHING, including pace.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

What about the opposite though? If you are limiting possessions during a game, you are giving yourself less opportunities to score, which makes it harder to win, right? You better be efficient in those limited possessions, or your offensive production isn't going to be very good.

I tend to agree with the point of view that the game is 40 minutes long, how many points you allow in those 40 minutes is the statistic that matters most.

I am really trying to understand how that would every be the case. A team that allows less points per possession in a game but averages more points allowed will still allow less points scored on them against a team that allows more points per possession but holds teams to less points. The 40 minute stat can be artificially inflated due to pace of play but the per possession will hold regardless of pace.

 

[Vowelguy]

What about the opposite though? If you are limiting possessions during a game, you are giving yourself less opportunities to score, which makes it harder to win, right? You better be efficient in those limited possessions, or your offensive production isn't going to be very good.

I tend to agree with the point of view that the game is 40 minutes long, how many points you allow in those 40 minutes is the statistic that matters most.

If this were football, where the defense is literally a different team, I’m guessing youd view offense and defense separately, and place greater weight on points per possession.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

If this were football, where the defense is literally a different team, I’m guessing youd view offense and defense separately, and place greater weight on points per possession.

Points per possession is an extremely important metric in basketball though. It's THE most important number when evaluating defenses (or offenses) against each other and has been for decades at this point. I am shocked so many people are acting like its some junk science and not wildly regarded as the more informative number.

 

[EricLA]

I've actually had a chance to watch some of the top teams play now. Overall impressed with all of them, but they also have their weaknesses.

• Several teams (USC especially) seem to run an offense of "give the ball to 1 person and let her go 1 on 5".
• Other teams (Baylor specifically) pass the ball crisply around the perimeter and the announcers are like "wow look at that ball movement", but the reality is only the ball is moving. the players are all standing in 1 spot which makes it easy to defend.
• Some of the teams seem to run a LOT of offense (UCLA (Rice), ND (Hidalgo) and LSU (Reese) specifically) where they pass the ball a bit, then give it to 1 player to try to drive into traffic and draw a foul.

Having said that, several other top teams seem to really try to run some high motion offense (SC, Stanford, NC State) and I'm sure some others who I haven't seen enough of yet (Colorado). Was impressed with K-State as well as Iowa (as much as it's the Clark show, the fact that she routinely gets double digit assists shows she's ball dominant, but very willing to pass for an assist).

A LOT of the defense I've seen has been really good. I watched USC and UCLA and wondered how the guards got any passes off at all. Also, I think if you watch just one game and say "this is how they are", you might be missing the point. Against a team like SC or UCLA who has a giant in the post, the defense and offense will look different than it will against a smaller team.

Our loss to NC State had nothing to do with players being out unless you count Ducharme's 2 points in 14 minutes due to injury. Sure I think UConn is playing much more cohesively now in spite of the incredibly shortened rotation, and I don't think there is much separating most of the top 10 or 15 teams. We could be in the top 2, we could be just out of the top 10.

I'm sometimes surprised at the tendency for UConn fans to say "we look great - everyone else looks like crap", or "we have 'X' player and everyone else kinda sucks". There's a ton of talent out there and a lot of very good coaches. But if you watched our game against Seton Hall and ONLY watched Q1 or Q3, you could easily say "UConn sucks". Sure we won by 24, but lost those Q's by a total of 10.

Bottom line I like where our team is now. I think we could beat anyone out there. But we also could lose to anyone in the top 10 or so. Just ask Mississippi State. I think there are a lot of really good teams out there as well.

 

[Bone Dog]

Unless one team can force turnovers or get steals, won’t there always be the same number of possessions for both teams?

 

[nwhoopfan]

I'm not sure why pace matters much. If you get more possessions so does your opponent, and vice versa. If you win, what is the difference between say 80-72 or 58-50?

 

[LoTrader]

UCONN is solid & improving. As pointed out by @EricLA so are many teams solid and improving. Parity lives in WCBB, and there really isn't any team that is invincible on a given night. I am a PAC-12 homer, and I ask myself how would a particular team fare in the PAC-12. Can also go the other way and ask how would a particular PAC-12 Team perform in a different conference? Fun to speculate.