U17 and U18 recruiting target observations

[CocoHusky]

@hoophuskee there is a lot there to digest. Geno's "shorten" bench of players that have earned "trust" by demonstrating the ability to positively impact the game. Geno doesn't make a calculation in his head that says I got big game coming up I'm going to shorten my bench to 7 or 8 or 9 or any specific number.
I believe what @Sluconn Husky is saying is that by recruiting 2 post players in 2018 there will be UCONN players that have the ability to positively impact the game but no or very few minutes available.
Baylor is a good example of that in consecutive classes Baylor grabbed the #1 Post player in Brown & Cox. By the way Baylor already had an AA post player in Davis and a contributor in Cave. Also didn't stop Baylor from grabbing Mompremier in Brown's class. So Baylor's minutes in the post look like this against UCONN Davis-24, Mompremier-22, Brown-19, Cox-7, Cave-8. Let me know who you think will be happy or unhappy in this scenario. Again, I disagree with @Sluconn Husky but at least I understand where he coming from. IMO if two or three quality players want to come to UCONN in 2018, as long as they accept that few minutes is a possible outcome then UCONN should sign those two or three.

 

[Charliebball]

@hoophuskee there is a lot there to digest. Geno's "shorten" bench of players that have earned "trust" by demonstrating the ability to positively impact the game. Geno doesn't make a calculation in his head that says I got big game coming up I'm going to shorten my bench to 7 or 8 or 9 or any specific number.
I believe what @Sluconn Husky is saying is that by recruiting 2 post players in 2018 there will be UCONN players that have the ability to positively impact the game but no or very few minutes available.
Baylor is a good example of that in consecutive classes Baylor grabbed the #1 Post player in Brown & Cox. By the way Baylor already had an AA post player in Davis and a contributor in Cave. Also didn't stop Baylor from grabbing Mompremier in Brown's class. So Baylor's minutes in the post look like this against UCONN Davis-24, Mompremier-22, Brown-19, Cox-7, Cave-8. Let me know who you think will be happy or unhappy in this scenario. Again, I disagree with @Sluconn Husky but at least I understand where he coming from. IMO if two or three quality players want to come to UCONN in 2018, as long as they accept that few minutes is a possible outcome then UCONN should sign those two or three.

Such a shame..........imagine what Geno & Co could do with any one of Baylor's 4 post players................

 

[Checkmate]

Is the early signing period over ?

 

[hoophuskee]

@hoophuskee there is a lot there to digest. Geno's "shorten" bench of players that have earned "trust" by demonstrating the ability to positively impact the game. Geno doesn't make a calculation in his head that says I got big game coming up I'm going to shorten my bench to 7 or 8 or 9 or any specific number.
I believe what @Sluconn Husky is saying is that by recruiting 2 post players in 2018 there will be UCONN players that have the ability to positively impact the game but no or very few minutes available.
Baylor is a good example of that in consecutive classes Baylor grabbed the #1 Post player in Brown & Cox. By the way Baylor already had an AA post player in Davis and a contributor in Cave. Also didn't stop Baylor from grabbing Mompremier in Brown's class. So Baylor's minutes in the post look like this against UCONN Davis-24, Mompremier-22, Brown-19, Cox-7, Cave-8. Let me know who you think will be happy or unhappy in this scenario. Again, I disagree with @Sluconn Husky but at least I understand where he coming from. IMO if two or three quality players want to come to UCONN in 2018, as long as they accept that few minutes is a possible outcome then UCONN should sign those two or three.

I think I understand where he is coming from- it just seemed he was so "absolute." I mean Stewart only averaged 28 minutes her jr and sr years I believe. She could have maybe averaged maybe something like 33 or so with other power teams. So yeah 2018 the players will take less minutes as does nearly every player that comes to UConn.

But the point is - the 2018 players we don't know who is going to get hurt, who is going to leave who is not going to produce at the level Geno wants. Can you say for absolute certainty that Azura will stay her senior year? There are so many factors going into what "may happen" in 2018 - to say "there is a problem" now -- there isn't imo unless one is to assume everything goes "perfectly." All the players UCONN gets fit in perfectly and everyone is playing at the exact high standards without injury just as was 1st anticipated when recruited.

I can't assume that will happen. Yet as slu and I are "ying-and-yang" he'll legtimately- from his perspective -how he looks at things- will be totally opposite from me.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

@hoophuskee So Baylor's minutes in the post look like this against UCONN Davis-24, Mompremier-22, Brown-19, Cox-7, Cave-8. Let me know who you think will be happy or unhappy in this scenario.

That's my point though. Cox and Cave barely play. Only 8 of their 13 players have played more than 1 of their 3 games.

 

[UcMiami]

That's my point though. Cox and Cave barely play. Only 8 of their 13 players have played more than 1 of their 3 games.

Cave was out until the Uconn game - so don't use her minutes as a gauge at this moment.

 

[hoophuskee]

That's my point though. Cox and Cave barely play. Only 8 of their 13 players have played more than 1 of their 3 games.

I don't know Baylor's team, I know UCONN's team. I KNOW Kim and Geno think different.

1--- Just go back and look at the 12/18/2011 game.
At halftime Geno made final mention during the interview "I think the game is going to be won on the offensive end tonight. Not on the defensive end as much."
During the 3rd qtr/early 2nd half Rebecca said she spoke with Kim telling her about Geno's comments and she replied:
"Look at the score. It's still going to be about defensive stops."
A different philosophy.

2--- After Griner's last game it was either last Geno show or one of his early ones the next year - he was asked about Griner and Louisville game and he said throughout her career he would have moved her around not just keep her in the paint.
A different philosophy.

3-- I believe after the 2012-2013 season Brooklyn Pope mentioned how she was playing "in a box" for her career and was eager to show what she could do in wnba. I don't think she made it, but I see Nina Davis as a non-impact 3 - she played in a box. Hey Kim got Nina to be a/a - so no slam to Kim and maybe Brooklyn needed to be placed in the box because she wasn't that good.

It's just that when I see this Baylor team - the players are stereotypical types other than the pg in which they are playing in a box.
Offensively Wallace is the stereotypical sg. Their sf's are the stereotypical more for defense and hit an occasional outside shot. Nina Davis if she plays sf - she doesn't add much other than rebound. And other pf and centers don't move much outside of the ft line and in.

Geno doesn't coach like this. So I can't speak for Kim's team that much. Nor do I know which players on Baylor were recruited as elite stars and which were bench players. But if you have a coach that is structured as primarily "one-way" to coach, then you will end up in a lot worse situation of minutes distribution for the stars rather than a coach like Geno who will use a player like Gabby everywhere. To Kim's credit Nina has been tremendous up until this year as an undersized pf.

I don't want to slam Kim - she is highly successful HOF coach- but she is more fixed on being structured so she is more "in-a-box" while Geno because of his style is more flexible. More flexible means he can give his stars more minutes because he'll coach them to different positions on the floor. For example, as mentioned above, he would have moved Griner to the outside on offense a bit more and maybe given Pope and other players (maybe recruited differently) more chances on the inside too rather than keep Griner planted in the paint. Therefore he'd be able to give more minutes to a better low post player or versatile player than Kim would have otherwise had.

So if a "Collier type" was available Geno wouldn't have kept her in a box if he had Griner too; he would have moved Griner out allowing Collier to get some minutes in the paint too as would Pope. Thus Collier and Pope would have shared minutes and then he could have used both as a 4/5 vs certain teams that weren't real big giving them ample minutes at different positions. Thus an initial argument of "You're going to have a problem with minutes between Pope and Collier," wouldn't really be a big deal. Geno has shown this to top tier recruits. So they know they are still going to get minutes. With Kim she wouldn't get Collier to play with Griner because her offense is less flexible therefore the only recruit she gets is more like Pope and probably worse and probably more of a "box/limited player." **So I don't think comparing Baylor vs UCONN in terms of a potential minute distribution problem is appropriate.

Vs Baylor at one point in the game he had CD, Chong, and Nurse. He had 5'11 Gabby guarding Coates last year. Now this year she hung in there vs Baylor's size. And she was able to use a low post move or two vs much bigger size. Something she struggled with early on. That's what Geno will do to allow for appropriate minute distribution among the star players.

 

[UcMiami]

Hoophuskee - a nice post. But I would phrase it differently in terms of Kim's philosophy - I think she is living the ideal of KISS - keep it simple stupid. She has had star players, and role players and she has ridden her star players strengths by making the team revolve around what they do best.

That isn't a bad strategy and it wins a lot of games and it is what most good coaches do and what most good players do in all sports at every level. For Kim it has led to great success - she has put together a string of conference championships and a few NCs as well. But it has also perhaps cost her a few more NCs, because as you go up in competition and the talent of the players and the quality of the coaches becomes much more equal, you run into coaches who scout your team specifically and figure out ways to take away your strengths. When that happens you need plan B and plan C and the ability to alter what you and your star players do. If you haven't practiced those adjustments, and you haven't demanded that your stars expand their capabilities, you find yourself in trouble. You become an easy team to scout, and it becomes more likely that one of your opponents will figure out a way to derail your season.

You mention Griner being anchored in the paint, but she actually wasn't - she often came out and set screens at the arc, or played in the high post. The problem was that she was never a threat to score 15' from the basket, even though she has a pretty and soft touch. And she wasn't a threat, because she was never coached to take those shots even when her team was winning big so she wasn't comfortable when a defender sagged off in a tight game. Compare that to Dolson who kept pushing her range throughout her four years even though she shot a higher percentage in the low post - the coaching was preparing for the days when the defense would make her ineffective in the low post and being able to make those 15-18' jumpers would force the defense to adjust to her being somewhere else.

One of the clearest indictions to me of the difference in philosophy between Uconn and most of the rest of WCBB is the yearly and career assist record at Uconn - in the history of great PGs that have played for Uconn, the record for a year belongs to Sue with a measly 231 and the career mark was just set by Moriah with a measly 659 - those are two of the best PGs in WCBB history, and in all the years of great guards, only four PGs have had a single season with more than 200 - Sue, Jen, DT, and Moriah. The NCAA records - 369 and 1307. Niya Johnson had 321 assist last year because that was her 'job' on the team, and if you wanted to slow the Baylor offense you figured out a way to take her out of her game and Baylor struggled - they lost once last year before the NCAAs and it was the one game Niya didn't play. And they lost to Oregon State who held her to 1 assist. Baylor and Kim had no plan B. If you took Moriah out of the game as the point of attack for Uconn, Geno just shifted her role to more of a two guard and the offense would run through Morgan or Stewart or Kia or Lou - the first three had 100+ assist on the year and Lou in fewer minutes had 82, while Moriah would become the spot up shooter or the one cutting back door.

 

[UcMiami]

Added thought - part of why I ridicule Maryland's schedule, or the way other teams run up scores against weak competition, is because they do just that - they don't use those games to expand their team's capabilities the way a good coach should. Work on your zone defense, and your half court offense, tell your low post player they can't take a shot shorter than 15' or their three point specialist that they must post up their defender and can't take another three point shot. Make players do different things, try to get a charge on defense, blanket the arc, only take open foul line jumpers - no other shot allowed. Whatever. But expand what players are capable of and give them confidence in a game to do some of the things they practice but have never had to do before.

 

[hoophuskee]

Hoophuskee - a nice post. But I would phrase it differently in terms of Kim's philosophy - I think she is living the ideal of KISS - keep it simple stupid. She has had star players, and role players and she has ridden her star players strengths by making the team revolve around what they do best.

That isn't a bad strategy and it wins a lot of games and it is what most good coaches do and what most good players do in all sports at every level. For Kim it has led to great success - she has put together a string of conference championships and a few NCs as well. But it has also perhaps cost her a few more NCs, because as you go up in competition and the talent of the players and the quality of the coaches becomes much more equal, you run into coaches who scout your team specifically and figure out ways to take away your strengths. When that happens you need plan B and plan C and the ability to alter what you and your star players do. If you haven't practiced those adjustments, and you haven't demanded that your stars expand their capabilities, you find yourself in trouble. You become an easy team to scout, and it becomes more likely that one of your opponents will figure out a way to derail your season.

You mention Griner being anchored in the paint, but she actually wasn't - she often came out and set screens at the arc, or played in the high post. The problem was that she was never a threat to score 15' from the basket, even though she has a pretty and soft touch. And she wasn't a threat, because she was never coached to take those shots even when her team was winning big so she wasn't comfortable when a defender sagged off in a tight game. Compare that to Dolson who kept pushing her range throughout her four years even though she shot a higher percentage in the low post - the coaching was preparing for the days when the defense would make her ineffective in the low post and being able to make those 15-18' jumpers would force the defense to adjust to her being somewhere else.

One of the clearest indictions to me of the difference in philosophy between Uconn and most of the rest of WCBB is the yearly and career assist record at Uconn - in the history of great PGs that have played for Uconn, the record for a year belongs to Sue with a measly 231 and the career mark was just set by Moriah with a measly 659 - those are two of the best PGs in WCBB history, and in all the years of great guards, only four PGs have had a single season with more than 200 - Sue, Jen, DT, and Moriah. The NCAA records - 369 and 1307. Niya Johnson had 321 assist last year because that was her 'job' on the team, and if you wanted to slow the Baylor offense you figured out a way to take her out of her game and Baylor struggled - they lost once last year before the NCAAs and it was the one game Niya didn't play. And they lost to Oregon State who held her to 1 assist. Baylor and Kim had no plan B. If you took Moriah out of the game as the point of attack for Uconn, Geno just shifted her role to more of a two guard and the offense would run through Morgan or Stewart or Kia or Lou - the first three had 100+ assist on the year and Lou in fewer minutes had 82, while Moriah would become the spot up shooter or the one cutting back door.

Awesome post UCm. Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You rephrased what I said better than I. Classic case in point is Griner. My point was exactly how you rephrased it.

I remember after Geno said it - I saw Griner in WNBA sticking outside jump shots and having such a fluid shot. I couldn't believe how fluid she looked.

 

[VFLfan]

Per Raoul on Twitter: Rennia Davis to Tennessee.

 

[CocoHusky]

Per Raoul on Twitter: Rennia Davis to Tennessee.

That's big! Might give TN #1 class for 2017.

 

[Checkmate]

That's big! Might give TN #1 class for 2017.

all they need to do is learn how to play basketball. They look turrrrrible vs PSU - so far.

 

[Orangutan]

As bad as Tennessee was for most of last season, they signed three of the top 12 in ESPN's rankings. Amazing.

 

[HuskyFan1125]

As bad as Tennessee was for most of last season, they signed three of the top 12 in ESPN's rankings. Amazing.

Gotta be able to coach them and I'm not sure that is gonna happen!

 

[cbraarj]

Boothe says she's offended and feels disrespected to only be ranked #3 in her class, feels she's #1, says she will average 45 points this year, guarantees NCs at Texas...

No. 3 recruit Boothe commits to Longhorns

16-12 record in HS, she should try to win a Championship there first. I see why Conn. didnt want her. It is great to have confidence as long as you have class with it! I know she is young, hopefully she grows up before college.

 

[SCGamecock]

As bad as Tennessee was for most of last season, they signed three of the top 12 in ESPN's rankings. Amazing.

No elite program had more roster space to offer recruits than Tennessee this year.. they needed this class after basically striking out last year.

 

[Charliebball]

Found this ranking of Houston area talent............interesting

 

[BroadwayVa]

Such a shame.....imagine what Geno & Co could do with any one of Baylor's 4 post players......

Which ones will decide to come to Ct?? Geno may lament for 10 seconds the "not getting" a player. You can't lose what you didn't have.
As a division one coach -- you'd get early on-set --if you moaned over every kid you recruited, wanted, and failed to reel in!!

 

[Charliebball]

Which ones will decide to come to Ct?? Geno may lament for 10 seconds the "not getting" a player. You can't lose what you didn't have.
As a division one coach -- you'd get early on-set --if you moaned over every kid you recruited, wanted, and failed to reel in!!

I was feeling sorry for the kids..........not Geno!!

 

[BroadwayVa]

I was feeling sorry for the kids.....not Geno!!

Not directed at your personally. A generalized comment about the impact of getting or not getting top recruits. Some posters have a difficult time with Geno not getting every 6 ft plus player thinking those player will win the next 4 NC's. When it will be a mix of the 5/10, 6/2/ 6/4 6/1 and a 5/5 player that will win for Geno. (Azura is a plus (I hope))

 

[meyers7]

As bad as Tennessee was for most of last season, they signed three of the top 12 in ESPN's rankings. Amazing.

Well they are probably looking at plenty of playing time (important to a lot of players) available. TN looks pretty empty right now.

 

[Charliebball]

Check out Jeff Walz's youngest recruit ever........scroll down Olsen's twitter for story from 9/21

Dan Olson‏@CGBR27

 

[JavaMan]

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[MilfordHusky]

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Maybe we didn't get the rebounding Gordon.