U CONN and Big 10....

[btstimpy]

I am not from Chicago; but, I have spent a lot of time in the Loop for work. While ND has a strong brand in Chicago (and elsewhere), it is just once big fish of a lot of other big fish in that lake, which does not event take into account that Chicago has a major pro-sports following also. Chicagoland is a huge job generator for the Midwest, especially compared to the other ‘rust belt’ cities and naturally draws thousands of B1G alumni to the city every year. Outside of Northwestern, each of the B1G schools is at least double ND's size in terms of graduating class size, too. Each B1G school has at least 1 bar in the city, some have several. Naturally, Northwestern and Illinois are the two biggest; but, there are a lot of Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan State, Michigan, etc. alumni there

I don't disagree. I've been to the Michigan State bar in Chicago and had a good time. Notice I said can help the ACC capture Chicago at least as much as Rutgers will help the Big Ten capture New York City. I think Notre Dame has more support in Chicago than Rutgers has in New York.

 

[NickyNewark]

You can dream for it to return. But the trend to the south and away from the northeast and the midwest for football is at the high school level. And it is growing more concentrated toward the Atlantic South (i.e. Florida and Georgia) with every passing year. To get the entertainment value, you have to have the players. The best coming out of high school are wanting to play closer to home in the south. That will translate to the college level. If Delaney can pull off a miracle against this trend, he will become a saint especially with a league that doesn't even play games in the south.

In the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s high school football talent was more balanced regionally. But you ask any specialist who follows college football recruiting today, and they will all tell you that the stars are in the South, in Texas, and in California. ESPN ran one of their Outside the Lines specials on it last year featuring Ron Zook who has recruited for Florida as well as for Illinois.

The Northeast does crave football. That's why the New England Patriots, New York Giants, Baltimore Ravens, and Philadelphia Eagles have each had really good runs since 2000. They have an easier time filling their rosters with players from the south than the colleges in the northeast are going to have. They pay them.

"Giants/NE/Eagles/Ravens they pay them"...So do many CFB team's in the south.

 

[NickyNewark]

I don't disagree. I've been to the Michigan State bar in Chicago and had a good time. Notice I said can help the ACC capture Chicago at least as much as Rutgers will help the Big Ten capture New York City. I think Notre Dame has more support in Chicago than Rutgers has in New York.

Hows that?RU has a larger following in NY than ND.This ain't ND circa 1975 anymore than it's SU 1959.In Chicago the MWC has a better chance of capturing the market than the ACC as its solidly B1G in CFB and ND will never join the ACC in FB if they have half the amount of boosters/followers you think in Chitown?

 

[NickyNewark]

Nicky, the budgets show that RU has been doling out direct institutional funds and student fees in the tens of millions for a very long time. UConn does the same thing, but at only 1/3rd the pace that Rutgers has been doing it.

Thanks upstater...but how long?And does that mean with the reaquisition of the medical and dental school and political heat that it would continue?I hear the crooked pols like Sweeney(those fiefdoms have been going on too long in NJ) have been using RU as a personal money mill for too long now??btw,most of my rebuttals are aimed at making bstimpy prove all his anti RU digs!If he wants to throw dirt make him prove them.I really could care less about his personal opinions but to what end is he aiming for with his snide comments?I'd love to meet him personally!He reeks of old southern arrogance that lost them the civil war.

 

[upstater]

Thanks upstater...but how long?And does that mean with the reaquisition of the medical and dental school and political heat that it would continue?I hear the crooked like Sweeney have been using RU as a personal money mill for too long now??btw,most of my rebuttals are aimed at making bstimpy prove all his anti RU digs!If he wants to throw dirt make him prove them.I really could care less about his personal opinions but to what end is he aiming for with his snide comments?I'd love to meet him personally!He reeks of old southern arrogance that lost them the civil war.

For well over a decade, probably more, but the only records I see start after 2000. I was talking about athletic department budgets, not the overall state of the school. Political heat? Now that RU is in the B1G, what political heat? They can easily make the argument that the eventual B1G total payout will offset deficits.

 

[hthusky74]

I don't disagree. I've been to the Michigan State bar in Chicago and had a good time. Notice I said can help the ACC capture Chicago at least as much as Rutgers will help the Big Ten capture New York City. I think Notre Dame has more support in Chicago than Rutgers has in New York.

I agree. My perception is that Chicago is primarily an ND town (da Bears aside) as regards football. Northwestern and the Illini are second tier there.

 

[NickyNewark]

For well over a decade, probably more, but the only records I see start after 2000. I was talking about athletic department budgets, not the overall state of the school. Political heat? Now that RU is in the B1G, what political heat? They can easily make the argument that the eventual B1G total payout will offset deficits.

Yes I figured that thats why I stated during the Mulcahy/Schiano/Pernetti era "01"/"12" notice they've become MUCH more frugal with Kelis Fisher and CVS?I know their on the way to AD health in the next 5 or so years IMO!!I like the fact that at least what you post is fact unlike our cavalier friend.

 

[NickyNewark]

I agree. My perception is that Chicago is primarily an ND town (da Bears aside) as regards football. Northwestern and the Illini are second tier there.

I'll admit I'm not real familiar with Chitown but from FTT its the B1G's core city but who knows what will happen now that the big is opening up a suite of offices in NYC?Will the B1G core make an eastward shift?Esp if UConn gets the hoped for invite?

 

[hthusky74]

I'll admit I'm not real familiar with Chitown but from FTT its the B1G's core city but who knows what will happen now that the big is opening up a suite of offices in NYC?Will the B1G core make an eastward shift?Esp if UConn gets the hoped for invite?

 

[AZHuskiePop]

"Giants/NE/Eagles/Ravens they pay them"...So do many CFB team's in the south.

That was such an easy straight line even I passed it up.
He lead with his chin on that one

 

[NickyNewark]

Wow what a summer!!Summer of 64 when I lost my innocence at 13 that was the B1G hit with Murray the K, from your swinging soiree, with a BLAST from the PAST!!And can't forget Cousin Bruce Morrow

 

[btstimpy]

I agree. My perception is that Chicago is primarily an ND town (da Bears aside) as regards football. Northwestern and the Illini are second tier there.

Yep. Notre Dame Stadium is full for every home game (80,000+), and many of the seats are occupied by people from Chicago that did not go to school at Notre Dame. Starting next year they'll be watching 2 or 3 ACC teams play in that stadium out of the 7 games they see. Those watching the Irish on TV will be watching 5 ACC teams out of the 12 they watch. Then for the Chicago Irish fans following other sports than football, they'll see a whole lot of ACC teams. I haven't seen the ACC talk about target marketing in Chicago, but they should. The ACC wasn't really expecting Notre Dame until next season. With the way the Big East split with the AAC all of a sudden, it just worked out that Notre Dame joined this season.

 

[btstimpy]

Hows that?RU has a larger following in NY than ND.This ain't ND circa 1975 anymore than it's SU 1959.In Chicago the MWC has a better chance of capturing the market than the ACC as its solidly B1G in CFB and ND will never join the ACC in FB if they have half the amount of boosters/followers you think in Chitown?

It's obvious that you're not familiar with Chicago. Just last season Soldier Field was sold out to watch Notre Dame play Miami. Notre Dame football isn't in the ACC and won't allow itself to be marketed as such. But they would in basketball, and it is an opportunity for the ACC.

 

[NickyNewark]

It's obvious that you're not familiar with Chicago. Just last season Soldier Field was sold out to watch Notre Dame play Miami. Notre Dame football isn't in the ACC and won't allow itself to be marketed as such. But they would in basketball, and it is an opportunity for the ACC.

Whats up with Miami,Fla's fans?Just fickle?Lucky for them they have ND on the schedule.Their gonna get walloped by FSU this week after a couple of weak showings!

 

[btstimpy]

Whats up with Miami,Fla's fans?Just fickle?Lucky for them they have ND on the schedule.Their gonna get walloped by FSU this week after a couple of weak showings!

Yes Miami's fans are fickle. You can tell that by basketball. When I lived there 2002-2010 and went to games I felt sorry. They seemed to get about 200 fans for basketball games. Last Season they were selling out their arena with students camping in line on the lawn overnight to get tickets. They had to bring in extra seats to allow Lebron James to have a seat.

For football, they need to build an on campus stadium that is size appropriate. They are playing in the cavernous Sun Life Stadium 25 miles away from campus. I like Miami and wish they would build a football stadium somewhere near their baseball stadium which is on campus. It only takes money and fighting the politics in Coral Gables.

 

[upstater]

It's obvious that you're not familiar with Chicago. Just last season Soldier Field was sold out to watch Notre Dame play Miami. Notre Dame football isn't in the ACC and won't allow itself to be marketed as such. But they would in basketball, and it is an opportunity for the ACC.

The problem with this is that ND basketball is awful. And they have a bad coach. They don't deserve to be ranked this year. It's stunning that people have them ahead of UConn.

 

[hthusky74]

The problem with this is that ND basketball is awful. And they have a bad coach. They don't deserve to be ranked this year. It's stunning that people have them ahead of UConn.

What people are those? AP has UConn 18 and ND 21 and The Coaches poll has UConn 19 and ND 22.

 

[upstater]

What people are those? AP has UConn 18 and ND 21 and The Coaches poll has UConn 19 and ND 22.

Sporting News, Mike Decourcy, http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-ba...-preseason-rankings-2013-14-analysis/slide/22

a bunch of others, like CBS Sports until recently.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

That is all I am saying. If you want to take a "glass half full" approach, if the Big 10 wants to expand, it is Missouri and UConn or nobody. The academics do matter for the Big 10, and among the unattached, it Missouri and UConn are a big step above the rest. The Big 10 is unlikely to add Vandy because of the different mission of the school and the fact that it doesn't bring a market. There is literally no one else available. It just depends on whether the Big 10 ever wants to expand.

I love your allusion to my glass half full approach.
Coming from a guy who would describe a nearly full glass as 1/8 empty.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I don't disagree. I've been to the Michigan State bar in Chicago and had a good time. Notice I said can help the ACC capture Chicago at least as much as Rutgers will help the Big Ten capture New York City. I think Notre Dame has more support in Chicago than Rutgers has in New York.

I would say that is a quality versus quantity questions. ND has the better brand with very loyal supporters while Rutgers has 14,000 graduates per year (2013), which is more students that ND has overall.

 

[CL82]

You are welcome to perceive it that way. But I just watched Maryland flush 7 sports because it is broke. And I don't recall ever seeing Rutgers win anything of consequence. Yes they partipate in a lot of sports. You just don't see them come tournament time in any of them. Maybe women's basketball occasionally.

Louisville is winning NCAA championships and adding sports with an athletic budget bigger than most in the ACC , Big Ten, or SEC. That's before ACC money. If you're predicting that this is by creative accounting and an oncoming train wreck is on the way, you can. But I'm not seeing it.

Thanks for giving me permission to have my own opinion. It was very gracious of you.

The "Yum" Center's huge losses allow L'ville to be appear profitable. Net those numbers and a different story comes to light. The credits and the debits have been explained ad nauseum before. The dramatic jump in profitability came from the way they chose to report funds rather than any underlying economic reformation. I don't fault them for that a bit, but I recognize for what it is.

 

[NickyNewark]

Thanks for giving permission to have my own opinion. It was very gracious of you.

The "Yum" Center's huge losses allow L'ville to be appear profitable. Net those numbers and a different story comes to light. The credits and the debits have been explained as nauseum before. The dramatic jump in profitability came from the way they chose to report funds rather than any underlying economic reformation. I don't fault them for that a bit, but I recognize for what it is.

Talk about arrogance?bstimpy tops the cake!!I don't even think he realizes it?In his eyes the ACC can do no wrong.I admire loyalty but not stubborn arrogance!

 

[btstimpy]

I would say that is a quality versus quantity questions. ND has the better brand with very loyal supporters while Rutgers has 14,000 graduates per year (2013), which is more students that ND has overall.

Most of Notre Dame's fans never went to the school. The Subway Alumni outnumber everybody.

 

[SubbaBub]

ND's unaffiliated fan base consists of.catholics, irish americans, front runners and people who remember watching them when they were the only games on TV.

It's a large number.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

ND's unaffiliated fan base consists of.catholics, irish americans, front runners and people who remember watching them when they were the only games on TV.

It's a large number.

I'm surprised that their numbers are still strong.
The ethnic and religious identy that made them NYC team is fast dwindling. Its been a casuality of the growth of suburbs and inter-marraige. I would love to see the demogragphics on their fans, especially age. As an East coast Catholic kid ND was a big deal.
My grandsons are barely aware of them.

 

[upstater]

I'm surprised that their numbers are still strong.
The ethnic and religious identy that made them NYC team is fast dwindling. Its been a casuality of the growth of suburbs and inter-marraige. I would love to see the demogragphics on their fans, especially age. As an East coast Catholic kid ND was a big deal.
My grandsons are barely aware of them.

Numbers will be down in the future because the number of Catholic HS grads will be down, but the Catholic ideal of having your kids go to Catholic HS and Catholic colleges is still very very strong. Almost as strong as it used to be, if not more so, given attitudes about public school riffraff. But the overall numbers are down. I'm always stunned to see the allegiance of Catholic school kids to Catholic colleges in every town I've lived in, and therefore the town's allegiance. You can see this with Albany and Siena, Buffalo and Canisius, Pittsburgh and Duquense, Providence and PC, and esp. Philly and Villanova. The mindset doesn't exist in NYC, Boston has somehow split from BC, while in Conn. I knew very few kids who wanted to go to Fairfield. I went to Catholic school and kids were just as likely to want Trinity or Wesleyan..

 

[hthusky74]

Numbers will be down in the future because the number of Catholic HS grads will be down, but the Catholic ideal of having your kids go to Catholic HS and Catholic colleges is still very very strong. Almost as strong as it used to be, if not more so, given attitudes about public school riffraff. But the overall numbers are down. I'm always stunned to see the allegiance of Catholic school kids to Catholic colleges in every town I've lived in, and therefore the town's allegiance. You can see this with Albany and Siena, Buffalo and Canisius, Pittsburgh and Duquense, Providence and PC, and esp. Philly and Villanova. The mindset doesn't exist in NYC, Boston has somehow split from BC, while in Conn. I knew very few kids who wanted to go to Fairfield. I went to Catholic school and kids were just as likely to want Trinity or Wesleyan..

Didn't you mean "Rhode Island and PC"?

 

[Marty Jackson]

If Swofford is calling on one line, and Delaney is on the other which does SH go with assuming both are offering membership?
Spite, ego, and pay-back suggest BIG.
IMO, the ACC is the better fit for Uconn, and in the long term, the better conference. The demographics alone suggest that you'll need some ties to the south.

From a fb view, Uconn could pull a middle of the pack result most years, and maybe compete for a division title once in a while (every 5-10 years). Uconn has always proven to compete and challenge for championships so that won't change with football.
bb isn't a question. the ACC would be the better spot. Even if Big adds Kansas, the depth of the ACC in hoops is unrivaled (UNC, Duke, Syr, Pitt, UofL as the top tier is amazing)... Adding Uconn to that list means that statistically the ACC could land 3 or 4 of the #1 seeds any given year.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Marty,

There are those who when aspiring for Medical schools aim for Harvard and Johns Hopkins and hold NYU and BU as fallbacks. Others aspire for NYU and BU and hold SUNY and New England school of medicine as fallbacks.

In a CR scenario the B1G is Harvard/Hopkins, the ACC is NY/BU and the AAC is SUNY/NESM. I personally wish that more UConn fans would aspire to the top tier. I am confident that our current leadership does.

 

[RMoore1999]

Marty,

There are those who when aspiring for Medical schools aim for Harvard and Johns Hopkins and hold NYU and BU as fallbacks. Others aspire for NYU and BU and hold SUNY and New England school of medicine as fallbacks.

In a CR scenario the B1G is Harvard/Hopkins, the ACC is NY/BU and the AAC is SUNY/NESM. I personally wish that more UConn fans would aspire to the top tier. I am confident that our current leadership does.

I consider many of the SUNY's to be respectable places of higher learning. The better analogy for the AAC would be the University of Phoenix.

Not only is "dumpster fire" overused and tired at this point, its way too complimentary.