Transfer Portal Starting to Load

[RuffRuff]

All the tall PGs would have been snapped up by top programs already. You're basically looking for the kids who had late growth spurts who ended up at no-name programs because no one thought they'd develop that way physically.

They’re definitely not aplenty - why Sturtz is going to at least see what the highest bidder is offering, not just blindly follow to Iowa.

 

[tzznandrew]

Ah, the "Hurley doesn't develop players" trope rears its ugly head again . . .

The trope is just nonsense.

There are years of evidence that players get better. Isaiah Whaley had no idea how to play basketball before Hurley.

 

[bendm]

He would fit well with a Reibe type center though.

The trouble with that, is if Malik can only play with Reibe, and Reibe is coming off the bench behind Reed, then the Reibe/Malik combo is limited to 15-20mpg game. Reed is gonna start and average 20-25.

 

[gtcam]

The trope is just nonsense.

There are years of evidence that players get better. Isaiah Whaley had no idea how to play basketball before Hurley.

Over the top BS

 

[Deleted at users request]

Over the top BS

The standards of development used to be Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton, Butler, Emeka, etc. These guys went back to back to back and the list goes on.

Now the board wants to tout fringe NBA guys and 2nd rounders as standards of development. Different expectations I suppose.

 

[RuffRuff]

The standards of development used to be Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton, Butler, Emeka, etc. These guys went back to back to back and the list goes on.

Now the board wants to tout fringe NBA guys and 2nd rounders as standards of development. Different expectations I suppose.

If you’re looking to reinvent the 90s you probably want to see if there is a Time Machine rental nearby.

I’m not sure why anyone keeps referencing any era of hoops as a benchmark earlier than 3-4 years ago.

 

[giddyup]

The trope is just nonsense.

There are years of evidence that players get better. Isaiah Whaley had no idea how to play basketball before Hurley.

Christian Vitale another example.

 

[Deleted at users request]

If you’re looking to reinvent the 90s you probably want to see if there is a Time Machine rental nearby.

I’m not sure why anyone keeps referencing any era of hoops as a benchmark earlier than 3-4 years ago.

Are we saying we shouldn’t expect great players anymore to the level past guys were at?

We’re happy with not seeing these kind of stars anymore?

 

[UCFan1513]

This may be the longest week in this history of college hoops - it's like a drum roll that doesn't stop playing, and we are filling the blanks in with digital hangings and talking about how development should be that of 35 years ago. The game can't get here fast enough.

Just wait until the tournament is over

 

[StllH8L8ner]

Young Robert Downey Jr was an under appreciated character in that movie.

 

[RuffRuff]

Are we saying we shouldn’t expect great players anymore to the level past guys were at?

We’re happy with not seeing these kind of stars anymore?

What I'm saying is that you tend to indulge in long term development, unrealistically and comparatively to era's that are so different they're entirely not relevant. Do you not realize kids during Ray's era had to stay in school for 3 years, and had to sit out a year if they transferred? You had no choice but to develop and once you wed yourself to a HS recruit, you were generally stuck with them and they with you. Also, in most cases, you won on a senior group of players that developed together into an NC team and after they won/departed, you'd often have to reset to build back up sacrificing NC opportunity for development years. None of this applies anymore.

 

[ColchVEGAS]

What I'm saying is that you tend to indulge in long term development, unrealistically and comparatively to era's that are so different they're entirely not relevant. Do you not realize kids during Ray's era had to stay in school for 3 years, and had to sit out a year if they transferred? You had no choice but to develop and once you wed yourself to a HS recruit, you were generally stuck with them and they with you. Also, in most cases, you won on a senior group of players that developed together into an NC team and after they won/departed, you'd often have to reset to build back up sacrificing NC opportunity for development years. None of this applies anymore.

Also, Whaley never had the ceiling of the aforementioned Ray, Rip, Caron, Emeka. The development of Whaley is worth touting.

 

[tzznandrew]

Over the top BS

Indeed, it's not really. He had no concept of where to be on the floor on offense or defense. Obviously he could play pick-up ball style offense and one-on-one defense. He had talent, athleticism, and a great motor, but the structured game of basketball was not something he knew how to do, at least as it manifested on the court. He regularly was out of position, particularly on offense, and consistently broke up sets.

If you were focusing your viewing attention on him during his Ollie and first Hurley years—and I was because people here wanted him to get more minutes—you could see it. Many didn't see it because it's not particularly normal to set your attention on one role player.

 

[tzznandrew]

Christian Vitale another example.

100%. And Polley. And Tyrese Martin. And Hawkins. And Sanogo. And soon we're going to add Solo Ball and others.

The thing about Whaley is that the difference with him is incredibly stark. He went from a high motor guy who didn't know where to be on the floor to do a defensive player of the year who got drafted.

 

[superjohn]

100%. And Polley. And Tyrese Martin. And Hawkins. And Sanogo. And soon we're going to add Solo Ball and others.

The thing about Whaley is that the difference with him is incredibly stark. He went from a high motor guy who didn't know where to be on the floor to do a defensive player of the year who got drafted.

Whaley didn't get drafted.

 

[Deleted at users request]

What I'm saying is that you tend to indulge in long term development, unrealistically and comparatively to era's that are so different they're entirely not relevant. Do you not realize kids during Ray's era had to stay in school for 3 years, and had to sit out a year if they transferred? You had no choice but to develop and once you wed yourself to a HS recruit, you were generally stuck with them and they with you. Also, in most cases, you won on a senior group of players that developed together into an NC team and after they won/departed, you'd often have to reset to build back up sacrificing NC opportunity for development years. None of this applies anymore.

This program does not have a problem keeping guys long term. If we really want a guy to they will stay here for 3-4 years unless they’re NBA ready. And even then guys aren’t as good or ready in 2 years as players like Caron, Jeremy, Ill add even Rudy to the list. Hell Charlie was pretty good when he first got to the NBA after two years. Good enough to earn himself a big second contract.

 

[tzznandrew]

Whaley didn't get drafted.

You're right. He was undrafted G-League.

Still an incredible accomplishment if you ask me. But, yeah, not quite what I claimed (back-end second round with what I thought).

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Are we saying we shouldn’t expect great players anymore to the level past guys were at?

We’re happy with not seeing these kind of stars anymore?

You want to know the list of recent lottery picks that were upperclassmen and stayed with the same program their entire college career? In ‘24 it was Edey and Devin Carter, in ‘23 there was no one, and in ‘22 it was Jalen Williams and Agbaji from Kansas. That’s it.

We are not an outlier in not developing lottery picks over 3-4 years. Outside of a few edge cases, no one is doing it. The folks with that level of talent are leaving after a year or two and developing in the NBA.

Edit: scratch Devin Carter from that list since he transferred.

 

[husky429]

Also, Whaley never had the ceiling of the aforementioned Ray, Rip, Caron, Emeka. The development of Whaley is worth touting.

Whaley had the ceiling of Rap/Rip/Caron/Emeka? What?

 

[ColchVEGAS]

Whaley had the ceiling of Rap/Rip/Caron/Emeka? What?

Never had the ceiling. Not even close. The development of Whaley should not be compared to those guys.

 

[Excalibur]

Whaley had the ceiling of Rap/Rip/Caron/Emeka? What?

I think you missed a word . . .

 

[Iluvsuebird]

I couldn’t agree with this more - spot on.

really? I do not believe AK is our weakness defensively. Our guards not keeping anyone in front of them, on the other hand, seems like a much bigger flaw.

 

[Iluvsuebird]

What I'm saying is that you tend to indulge in long term development, unrealistically and comparatively to era's that are so different they're entirely not relevant. Do you not realize kids during Ray's era had to stay in school for 3 years, and had to sit out a year if they transferred? You had no choice but to develop and once you wed yourself to a HS recruit, you were generally stuck with them and they with you. Also, in most cases, you won on a senior group of players that developed together into an NC team and after they won/departed, you'd often have to reset to build back up sacrificing NC opportunity for development years. None of this applies anymore.

preach!

 

[RuffRuff]

really? I do not believe AK is our weakness defensively. Our guards not keeping anyone in front of them, on the other hand, seems like a much bigger flaw.

If you were at the Creighton game, it was very much reinforced that defense is not his strong suit. He may not be the worst offender, but he's certainly not offsetting deficiencies elsewhere. He's slow.

If AK, Solo, Mullins (without know Mullins ability as a defender as a freshmen) are where we start 1-4 defensively, that is not going to be be the core of a good defensive unit. Our PG will have to then be great offensively & defensively to offset some of it - good luck finding that in the portal.

 

[RuffRuff]

This program does not have a problem keeping guys long term. If we really want a guy to they will stay here for 3-4 years unless they’re NBA ready. And even then guys aren’t as good or ready in 2 years as players like Caron, Jeremy, Ill add even Rudy to the list. Hell Charlie was pretty good when he first got to the NBA after two years. Good enough to earn himself a big second contract.

Thing is man, to keep kids now, you have to pay them, and to decide where your ROI is. There is a level of economics at play here that was zero consideration back then. Back then you could stash a kid on the bench and develop, now kids want $$ and playing time or else they fly the coup. Let's take Ross for instance (total hypothetical Tamery) - he's going to be a junior. By junior year, I'd say most kids want to start and get a really confident sense of playing time. Do we give him that just to retain/develop after what we saw this year?

Can someone tell me if Trilly is worth signing back up with? I only found his content to be worthwhile during recruiting cycles.