Traci Carter (Committed to Marquette)

[ConnHuskBask]

@businesslawyer You don't think it's fair to point out players in the last couple of classes, in what has evolved into a discussion about our overall recruiting trajectory, who have underwhelmed?

The debate on who we missed on I think is entirely fair. We're losing a lot of head to head battles for recruits and there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer why.

Aside from a couple lunatics, nobody has said were doomed or the whole staff needs to be turned over, but we're not getting the quality depth that were accustomed to and while against a Duke, UNC, UK its easier to understand, but Marquette, UNLV, VCU, VT beating us out, on top of bringing in some kids that can't even step foot on the court from day 1, has me and others rightfully concerned.

 

[Horatio]

Does Ace Recruiter= Rip Hamilton in a kids living room with NCAA and NBA championship rings?

 

[CallMeBruce]

Does Ace Recruiter= Rip Hamilton in a kids living room with NCAA and NBA championship rings?

No.

 

[mauconnfan]

Does Ace Recruiter= Rip Hamilton in a kids living room with NCAA and NBA championship rings?

Ace recruiter I believe needs ties to the HS's and impact AAU programs. Doesn't do much good to walk in with a champ in from 99 any more, just my thoughts.

 

[businesslawyer]

@businesslawyer You don't think it's fair to point out players in the last couple of classes, in what has evolved into a discussion about our overall recruiting trajectory, who have underwhelmed?

The debate on who we missed on I think is entirely fair. We're losing a lot of head to head battles for recruits and there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer why.

Aside from a couple lunatics, nobody has said were doomed or the whole staff needs to be turned over, but we're not getting the quality depth that were accustomed to and while against a Duke, UNC, UK its easier to understand, but Marquette, UNLV, VCU, VT beating us out, on top of bringing in some kids that can't even step foot on the court from day 1, has me and others rightfully concerned.

1. You would apparently be more pleased with the staff if they didn't call Carter before he signed with Marquette. I find that not just illogical, but strange. The more people you go after, the more you won't sign. That is a fact. Get over it. All that matters is what your class is.

2. How poor Lubin played this year has zippo to do with this year's recruiting. Zippo. Nilch. Nada. He was a young man we did want last year (he wasn't an April signing IIRC) and we may have missed on an evaluation (although, with bigs, you won't truly know that until their third year. Look how many all conference centers Pitt had who only blossomed 3 or 4 years out of high school). Cassell Jr. was heading to Maryland before grades interfered. Maryland, if you hadn't noticed, is in the Top 10. Maybe the whole recruiting community was wrong about the young man -- maybe he really was bothered all year by the foot and we haven't seen him yet. But what does that have to this year's recruiting? I'm not even sure it had anything to do with last year's recruiting as opposed to taking a young man that doesn't live up to his potential (see, e.g., Hazelton, Scott or Coombs-McDaniel, Jamaal).

3. Nolan and Samuel were each material contributors to a national championship team. Period. So I don't know how bringing in people who truly contributed to a national championship can in anyone's world be a mistake that reflects poorly on our recruiting. How many players did UNC bring in recently who did that? Duke? Kansas? That would be zero, zero, and zero. Did both of their play seem to regress this year? Samuel's clearly seemed to when he was asked to do more. Nolan's inarguably did for reasons that I can't understand. But what does their regression tell you about our recruiting? They were both good recruits because they were pieces of the puzzle that helped us win it all.

 

[boog204]

Does Ace Recruiter= Rip Hamilton in a kids living room with NCAA and NBA championship rings?

No... Just b/c someone was a great player; even an NBA player, does not mean that they have the ability to convince a player and parent that a school is right. Ricky was a great player for us. But I'm not sure what kind of true connections he has within the high school and AAU system. That is truly the most important thing.

Another thing t is that perhaps we are casting too wide of a net. I know KO is not JC; never will be. But JC (to our knowledge) didn't offer every player he came across and throw such a wide net. JC seemed to identity a select few and then would go all in for them. If he didn't get them, then he'd find a plan B (or C) and go all in there too. The story of the Tevin Mack recruitment when VCU sent their whole staff to close and we sent Ricky really bothers me. Mack also stated that the VCU staff "believed in him" implying that the other schools did not give that total impression. The fact is despite our success, we've still got to outwork other programs for recruits. Relying on the fact that KO was in the NBA for a while and that kids like him is just not enough.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

1. You would apparently be more pleased with the staff if they didn't call Carter before he signed with Marquette. I find that not just illogical, but strange. The more people you go after, the more you won't sign. That is a fact. Get over it. All that matters is what your class is.

You find it strange that myself and others are concerned that we're in desperate need for another ball handler and coming off likely 5 straight NBA PGs, two titles in four seasons and a new practice facility that we can't even get a visit from Carter, in addition to the other kids we were in on and didn't land?

2. How poor Lubin played this year has zippo to do with this year's recruiting. Zippo. Nilch. Nada. He was a young man we did want last year (he wasn't an April signing IIRC) and we may have missed on an evaluation (although, with bigs, you won't truly know that until their third year. Look how many all conference centers Pitt had who only blossomed 3 or 4 years out of high school). Cassell Jr. was heading to Maryland before grades interfered. Maryland, if you hadn't noticed, is in the Top 10. Maybe the whole recruiting community was wrong about the young man -- maybe he really was bothered all year by the foot and we haven't seen him yet. But what does that have to this year's recruiting? I'm not even sure it had anything to do with last year's recruiting as opposed to taking a young man that doesn't live up to his potential (see, e.g., Hazelton, Scott or Coombs-McDaniel, Jamaal).

I never said Lubin or Cassell had anything to do with this year's recruiting class. What I am saying is that on a whole, bringing in kids who shouldn't even sniff the court from the jump is a reason for concern. It's our staff that's recruiting these kids and it's our staff that should be to blame if they don't pan out. Lubin and Cassell have a lot of time left to improve and injuries have derailed their season, but I was not impressed with what I saw.

3. Nolan and Samuel were each material contributors to a national championship team. Period. So I don't know how bringing in people who truly contributed to a national championship can in anyone's world be a mistake that reflects poorly on our recruiting. How many players did UNC bring in recently who did that? Duke? Kansas? That would be zero, zero, and zero. Did both of their play seem to regress this year? Samuel's clearly seemed to when he was asked to do more. Nolan's inarguably did for reasons that I can't understand. But what does their regression tell you about our recruiting? They were both good recruits because they were pieces of the puzzle that helped us win it all.

Nolan and Samuel were tremendous for us in the title run, there is no doubt about it. They are complementary pieces though and we haven't recruited well enough to keep them at their given roles. If Samuel and Nolan are your energy, defense and hustle guys it's good, but do I want Samuel as my primary or secondary ball handler or Nolan being pegged for major minutes going into next season? Not particularly.

In total, we are still getting studs class in Hamilton and Adams, but the other pieces have fallen way short of the expectations we have at UConn.

Not sure why it's so strange to see it that way.

 

[Gurleyman]

@businesslawyer You don't think it's fair to point out players in the last couple of classes, in what has evolved into a discussion about our overall recruiting trajectory, who have underwhelmed? The debate on who we missed on I think is entirely fair. We're losing a lot of head to head battles for recruits and there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer why. Aside from a couple lunatics, nobody has said were doomed or the whole staff needs to be turned over, but we're not getting the quality depth that were accustomed to and while against a Duke, UNC, UK its easier to understand, but Marquette, UNLV, VCU, VT beating us out, on top of bringing in some kids that can't even step foot on the court from day 1, has me and others rightfully concerned.

Facey and Samuel came under unique circumstances - a sudden coaching change and an unproven coach on an interim contract. Facey was a pretty good signing under those circumstances and we probably don't win the title without Samuel so I'll always be glad he came. Cassell seemed like a great pick up - a JuCo A-A who was once a Maryland commit and had three years left and not two. So far, anyway, that was a whiff, but we'll see what happens next year. Lubin was a reach, but primarily just to get a physical body since our bigs are all pretty thin - I understand why we thought some extra size/depth there was needed.

We've had some misses, but typically they have been efforts to get someone in behind a young top tier guy at the same position. It makes it a bit harder to get Mack/Clarke/Jones when they play the three and you have a top 25 three already in as a freshman. Perhaps we'd have a better chance now that Hamilton has proven to be an elite rebounder who can slide to the four a lot, but I'm sure that wasn't in our plans back then. I know people get all in a snit when I point that out, but it's one thing to recruit a wing behind Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker, another to recruit one behind a guy who could be in the way for 2-3 years. When we had Caron Butler, the 3 we got in the class behind him was Chad Wise. When Sticks and Dyson were freshmen, we only got Donnell Beverly.

My criticism with the staff is on their self-analysis of their own team, and who they then prioritized. Having seen this team all year our weaknesses are pretty clear in the backcourt past Boat. Just not enough playmakers. Purvis belongs at the 3 in college. So does Hamilton and so does Omar. I think Cassell belongs there too (he's 6-4 but lacks the foot speed to deal with guards). And we went after wings - mostly non-shooting wings other than Mack - as if our backcourt was in great shape. Now that we are into the spring and we've seen our team in action, we are trying to address our needs, but too late in the game. I think they really mls-evaluated Purvis as someone who was a 2 who could be a playmaker/ball handler and maybe slide over to the 1. But he's got a three's game - he can catch and shoot or slash to the basket in a straight line, but he can't handle the ball or make decisions at an elite level.

If our 2016 class underwhelms, I'll probably join folks in thinking more towards there's a long-term problem. But some mistakes were made in this class, starting with Ali/Jackson, that don't necessarily have any deeper meaning than just mistakes or misses we can learn from.

 

[tzznandrew]

When Sticks and Dyson were freshmen, we only got Donnell Beverly.

That wasn't the only reason.

The roster in 2006-2007

Sophomores
1. Jeff Adrien
2. Craig Autrie
3. Rob Garrison
4. Marcus Johnson
6. AJ Price

Freshmen
7. Jerome Dyson
8. Ben Eaves
9. Gavin Edwards
10. Curtis Kelly
11. Jonathan Mandeldove
12. Stanley Robinson
13. Hasheem Thabeet
14. Doug Wiggins

We lost Garrison mid-year, so I think that was our only actual scholarship to offer. I think that played a pretty large role in only getting one new player.

 

[James]

Rip has a gazillion aau plugs. First off he has his own jordan brand sponsored team, he is also close with a bunch of nike folk like WWW. Having said that, he aint coming here to coach/recruit. He just retired to spend time with his kids, not move to storrs and work.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

@Gurleyman Great post. I agree with what you're saying and I think so do people on the other side of the fence.

 

[Gurleyman]

That wasn't the only reason. The roster in 2006-2007 Sophomores 1. Jeff Adrien 2. Craig Autrie 3. Rob Garrison 4. Marcus Johnson 6. AJ Price Freshmen 7. Jerome Dyson 8. Ben Eaves 9. Gavin Edwards 10. Curtis Kelly 11. Jonathan Mandeldove 12. Stanley Robinson 13. Hasheem Thabeet 14. Doug Wiggins We lost Garrison mid-year, so I think that was our only actual scholarship to offer. I think that played a pretty large role in only getting one new player.

Fair point. I shouldn't have used Beverly as an example. But we didn't get a wing behind Rip until Doug Wrenn (which is how Freeman ended up there). Guard-wise, we only got Darius Smith in a year after Kemba (in the spring). You bring a stud in who isn't a sure one and done and it can be tough to recruit right behind him at the same position. What happened at Kentucky this year was a case of guys coming back who weren't expected to.

It isn't a universal rule, of course - there can be exceptions. Boat came in a year after Bazz and before it was clear Kemba was going to blow up into a lottery pick, so he took a bit of a chance. Glad he did because when he was out with NCAA crap we legitimately only had a walk on backing up Bazz and Lamb at the guards. (Given that Kemba was mostly done with his degree, though, it is quite possible Boat assumed he would be gone). We had problems in 2006 with guard play because we got Williams and Price in back to back classes to play the 1 and 2, and no other guards wanted to be a part of that logjam (other than the flyer we took on Kellogg). Austrie was a spring signing after it was clear AJ was going to have a hard time coming back. Garrison was a desperation signing after suspensions.

In the case of Larrier and Mack, since that's an obvious example, VCUs system helped since they basically play one big, two guards and two wings and press all over the court. It's easy to sell that they'll be on the court a lot together. We would probably have a much better chance of selling minutes to Mack now, I think (now that he could have seen a lot of Hamilton at the 4 and our lack of shooting on the wing), but the signing period is when it is.

 

[brewcity77]

Marquette fan weighing in as far as Carter goes.

FWIW, most of us were worried about UConn and hoped for a commitment on the visit. Pretty sure the staff got that commitment on the visit but allowed the player to get back home before announcing it publicly. Wojo is a hell of a recruiter, definitely better than Buzz Williams. Buzz used to throw out 20-30 offers to the kids he wanted and then hoped they would show interest. Sometimes we got lucky, but usually we ended up with the top-100 kids that no one else wanted.

Wojo seems to target one guy at a time and make them his only priority. For Henry Ellenson, he connected with his father, John (who played at Marquette in the 80s), secured a commitment from his AAU teammate Nick Noskowiak (had been committed under Buzz, since decommitted), and got Henry's brother Wally to transfer to Marquette from Minnesota (Wally was not here pre-Wojo, as someone said in this thread). He did everything he could to secure a McDonald's All-American quickly. Lots of work, but he put everything in his favor to get Henry.

With Carter, there seemed to be little contact until February. Playing time was definitely a major factor. Our one returning PG has been playing more like a 2/3 this year, and most expect that to continue, so right now Carter is the only true PG on our roster for 2015-16. It also helped a lot that Wojo was a HS All-American PG and played high-major basketball. In addition, his staff includes two All-American guards, Chris Carrawell & Brett Nelson, as well as Marquette alum Travis Diener who played 5 years in the NBA before turning down NBA contracts to play overseas (more money and married a ridicuously hot Italian girl). We have a very guard-centric coaching staff.

Marquette does have all the other perks, the updated facilities, large dedicated fanbase, but another thing that helped is we play in a NBA arena and have a very close relationship with the Milwaukee Bucks. Jabari Parker used to babysit Wojo's kids at Duke and I would bet has met every Marquette recruit that stepped on campus in the past year. Wojo's work with Team USA (through Coach K) also gives him a lot of connections -- just so happened that when Carter was in town, so were the Washington Wizards. Probably not coincidence that Carter got to hang out with his uncle, Rasual Butler, and his uncle's teammate, John Wall. Wall has been in Team USA camps that Wojo helped run.

I know we're just a small catholic school in the Midwest, but right now Wojo can sell his staff, all the players he helped send to the NBA, learning from Coach K, playing time, a new NBA arena being built in 2017, while also being able to push the underdog mentality since Buzz Williams sort of drove our program off a cliff before he bolted for Va Tech.

One more thing, though...I do think the American hinders you guys. Almost all the recruits we've landed have praised the Big East, how they love playing in a basketball conference, how well the league is doing. Not having football is not hurting recruiting at all. And when the worst teams you play are DePaul and Seton Hall, well that's still a massive step up from Tulane, ECU, USF, etc. I think everyone would love to have UConn back in the league, but no one wants the headache of football. As great as the old Big East was, it was pretty much chaos even before we joined the league, and those last few years felt like standing on a fault line. So if you guys ever want to ditch your football program, I have a feeling quite a few people could see a 12-team league with east and west divisions working out...maybe Dayton or Wichita State come along with you?

Either way, best of luck. While I hated seeing 'Nova lose last year, I had picked UConn deep in the tourney and it felt like the good old days cheering for Shabazz once all the Big East teams were out.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Ugh, I hate when I like fans from other teams.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Marquette fan weighing in as far as Carter goes.

FWIW, most of us were worried about UConn and hoped for a commitment on the visit. Pretty sure the staff got that commitment on the visit but allowed the player to get back home before announcing it publicly. Wojo is a hell of a recruiter, definitely better than Buzz Williams. Buzz used to throw out 20-30 offers to the kids he wanted and then hoped they would show interest. Sometimes we got lucky, but usually we ended up with the top-100 kids that no one else wanted.

Wojo seems to target one guy at a time and make them his only priority. For Henry Ellenson, he connected with his father, John (who played at Marquette in the 80s), secured a commitment from his AAU teammate Nick Noskowiak (had been committed under Buzz, since decommitted), and got Henry's brother Wally to transfer to Marquette from Minnesota (Wally was not here pre-Wojo, as someone said in this thread). He did everything he could to secure a McDonald's All-American quickly. Lots of work, but he put everything in his favor to get Henry.

With Carter, there seemed to be little contact until February. Playing time was definitely a major factor. Our one returning PG has been playing more like a 2/3 this year, and most expect that to continue, so right now Carter is the only true PG on our roster for 2015-16. It also helped a lot that Wojo was a HS All-American PG and played high-major basketball. In addition, his staff includes two All-American guards, Chris Carrawell & Brett Nelson, as well as Marquette alum Travis Diener who played 5 years in the NBA before turning down NBA contracts to play overseas (more money and married a ridicuously hot Italian girl). We have a very guard-centric coaching staff.

Marquette does have all the other perks, the updated facilities, large dedicated fanbase, but another thing that helped is we play in a NBA arena and have a very close relationship with the Milwaukee Bucks. Jabari Parker used to babysit Wojo's kids at Duke and I would bet has met every Marquette recruit that stepped on campus in the past year. Wojo's work with Team USA (through Coach K) also gives him a lot of connections -- just so happened that when Carter was in town, so were the Washington Wizards. Probably not coincidence that Carter got to hang out with his uncle, Rasual Butler, and his uncle's teammate, John Wall. Wall has been in Team USA camps that Wojo helped run.

I know we're just a small catholic school in the Midwest, but right now Wojo can sell his staff, all the players he helped send to the NBA, learning from Coach K, playing time, a new NBA arena being built in 2017, while also being able to push the underdog mentality since Buzz Williams sort of drove our program off a cliff before he bolted for Va Tech.

One more thing, though...I do think the American hinders you guys. Almost all the recruits we've landed have praised the Big East, how they love playing in a basketball conference, how well the league is doing. Not having football is not hurting recruiting at all. And when the worst teams you play are DePaul and Seton Hall, well that's still a massive step up from Tulane, ECU, USF, etc. I think everyone would love to have UConn back in the league, but no one wants the headache of football. As great as the old Big East was, it was pretty much chaos even before we joined the league, and those last few years felt like standing on a fault line. So if you guys ever want to ditch your football program, I have a feeling quite a few people could see a 12-team league with east and west divisions working out...maybe Dayton or Wichita State come along with you?

Either way, best of luck. While I hated seeing 'Nova lose last year, I had picked UConn deep in the tourney and it felt like the good old days cheering for Shabazz once all the Big East teams were out.

Seems like KO and staff have the same approach......

 

[Kembacity]

I'm hoping that Calhoun is still pretty close to the team and maybe he can impart some wisdom on young KO. He can't be happy with the way recruiting is going so I hope JC is seriously in on helping him turn the corner and maybe get a few solid recruits.

Maybe someone on the staff (Ricky or Kevin) needs to be the guy to challenge KO and say hey, why are we offering these 8 kids we don't know a ton about other than they are producing at the highschool AAU level? Let's focus all our attention on these specific 10 guys who have something that we think other teams are under-valuing, like say the length of Jeremy Lamb or Brimah or Thabeet. Sounds like someone has to change the method or mindset on recruiting in general.

 

[brewcity77]

Seems like KO and staff have the same approach.

That just killed us. Buzz was very popular here, but he's pretty poor at identifying high school talent. Every year we would hear how we were on the list with half the guys that would be All-Americans, then didn't land any of them. Instead, we got guys like Jamail Jones and Erik Williams that played 2 years of high-major ball before transferring to Westeastern Tech A&M. Every year, there are guys in the 50-100 range that have interest from schools like Duke, UNC, or Kansas and end up turning out pretty good. Then there are guys in the 50-100 range that get interest from Texas Tech, Clemson, or Rutgers and end up sucking and transferring. Guess which ones Buzz got...

 

[brewcity77]

Ugh, I hate when I like fans from other teams.

And I totally get this...thankfully, the only fans from other teams that show up on our boards are usually Dayton or Wisconsin backers, and they are pretty much all crazy psychos that think their school can do no wrong. (Please find a way to get Diamond Stone qualified for college and take him from Wisconsin...would make us very happy)

At Marquette, we know better. You can't go 38 years without a title unless you're doing at least a couple things wrong...

 

[Matrim55]

And I totally get this...thankfully, the only fans from other teams that show up on our boards are usually Dayton or Wisconsin backers, and they are pretty much all crazy psychos that think their school can do no wrong. (Please find a way to get Diamond Stone qualified for college and take him from Wisconsin...would make us very happy)

He's not going to college; he's going to Maryland.

 

[brewcity77]

He's not going to college; he's going to Maryland.

Anywhere but Wisconsin. Not sure his recruitment is entirely on the up-and-up. His AAU is an Under Armour program, just like Maryland, but there's a lot of talk about him having difficulty passing the SAT and in the middle of his recruitment, after eliminating Marquette, he called Wojo and asked if he could come to Marquette. That we didn't pursue tells me there might be some red flags...why else would our coach not field calls from a 5-star center in our back yard?

Wouldn't surprise me if he went to Europe or China for a year instead.

 

[pnow15]

Traci who?