Top Ten All-Americans

[hoophuskee]

I think 3 UCONN players should get in. I don't see why not on the WBCA. IMO it makes no sense to NOT have 3. Though sometimes the voters don't make sense I understand. First off- just because we have no preseason a/a's - so what?

1-- We have the toughest schedule in all of basketball.

2-- We are undefeated. IMO winning COUNTS. Being UNDEFEATED is SPECIAL. During the undefeated season- - when they've played the extremely tough games-- at their respective positions vs the elite teams or the tough games-- they have been the best player at their respective positions almost all the time OUTPLAYING other elite players at their respective positions. OFC for example you can look at Lou's bad game vs USC. But what other game?????? You look at other candidates after the 1st five or so-- - many have had several clunkers in big games. Playing well vs the best of the best has weight, doesn't it?

3-- We look at other teams stats and give them an "atta boy" but for UCONN let's do the same. Lou leads the best team in the nation in scoring. Napheesa leads the team in efficiency and rebounding. Gabby leads the team in assists and is the best defender on the team. Why wouldn't the team in which they have three unique players who has beaten the best of the best and each of the 3 has basically "won" their position in nearly all the big games NOT be properly recognized for this?

4-- Why not recognize what is near historic? This UConn team had ZERO preseason all-americans (see link below) yet they had the toughest schedule and went undefeated. How often in the history of the sport has that happened? So why should "precedence rule" when what UCONN is doing is historic or near-historic considering UConn has played the toughest schedule in all of wcbb in which the 3 players cited have "won" at their respective positions for the most part?

Madness Women's Basketball 2016-2017 Preseason All-American Teams

I just can't see not recognizing them - in addition the winning streak- but besides that - Undefeated is special-- and does anyone think Gabby or Napheesa is going to sniff being NPOY with the voters? Mots of us have Collier as the best UCONN player according to a poll yet she wasn't even on the Wooden list. So we're the top team, undefeated, have a historic type of season in which players are unique "winning" their individual positions in big games while no one will sniff NPOY, yet we aren't "allowed" to have three A/A's while some other teams have a star player that might get in who has had more clunkers in big games and they are allowed to get in? IMO that would be so brazenly incompetent or bias - similar to a long time ago in which they used to stick all the male coaches in the same region and pretend it was an accident.

Just for example two players - definitely qualified to get in based on what I mentioned above in a way but then I don't think they will or should at least over the UCONN players - I would disqualify them- one is Vivians. Look at her offensive numbers. She is shooting 39% from the floor, 30% from 3, averaging 4.5 rebounds, has more turnovers than assists and her steals and blocked shots are only slightly better than Lou's. SO her team is awesome- and she is the without a doubt the leading scorer- but her numbers are poor other than ppg - and her rebounding is just avg. And Lou has had 2 less games for steals and blocks which isn't her strong categories yet right now her numbers are near identical

Other player is Peterson from Cuse. Peterson vs Lou for example- the only thing Peterson does better than Lou is pass the ball better and get more steals. Not close at all to Lou's efficiency. So why should she get a/a over Lou in which Peterson has "helped" her team to NINE losses? We're going to reward a gunner that loses a lot vs a player that leads the best team in the nation in scoring while playing the toughest schedule? The combination of being a gunner and losing often shouldn't be rewarded top ten a/a unless you are lot more efficient than what she is showing vs other efficient high scoring players - that actually WIN.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Osahor has 10 pts and 3 rebounds...in the first 2 1/2 minutes of the game tonight. Not bad. Plum hasn't taken a shot yet but has 3 assists.

 

[JordyG]

When Diamond DeShields is playing her best. There aren't many players better.

To me DD's talent has never been in question. Neither was JaMarcus Russell's, Ryan Leaf's, Sam Bowie and Kwame Brown. Now I'm not saying that DD won't be a fine professional, but a few things she does are going to make it difficult for her to be a great pro or win championships. Her athleticism makes her a threat to score anywhere on the court, but because she often jumps so high on her jumpers it's never at a consistent height. To me she'll never be a consistent jump shooter and she'll always be streaky. The WNBA as does the NBA tends to be more of an isolation league. As a pro as in college DD is going to have to take the lions share of shots because she's not an efficient shooter. Playing isolation ball with your guard taking most of your shots is real difficult to win either at the college or pro level, and as a pro she's going to meet a lot of players with equal athleticism. Some who will be more consistent shooters. Can her personality coexist on a team where she plays 1B or C to the 1A of someone else? So far as a collegiate she's also an inconsistent passer with most of her turnovers occurring when she off loads the ball. Think that's going to change? I mean, I could be miles wrong. Time will tell.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Osahor w/ 19 pts. and 10 rebounds...at halftime. Yeah, I think she deserves to be mentioned among the best frontcourt players in the country.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Osahor finished w/ 24 pts. 20 reb. and 5 assists, and sat out the last 5 minutes or so.

 

[bballnut90]

When Diamond DeShields is playing her best. There aren't many players better.

Problem is she's wildly inconsistent and hasn't exhibited good basketball IQ. No chance at AA this year even if she is one of the more gifted players in the country. She's also a high risk high reward kind of player in the draft. Her game will be well suited for the pros, but she is wildly inconsistent and could easily be out of the league in just a few years. She could also develop into an Angel Mccoughtry caliber player if she'll work her butt off and improve her shooting/IQ. If I'm a GM of a good team, I'm not risking my pick on her. I'd opt for several others ahead of her.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Kalani Brown is one of the best players in the nation. There is not a post player that I would put on any list ahead of her. Brown is averaging 15 points, 8.3 rebounds and almost 2 blocks a game...in only 20 minutes per game. We saw what she can do if she gets to play 35 minutes per game.

Just on the basis of what you're saying, because I haven't watched much of Baylor. Why is Kalani Brown only getting 20 minutes a game if she's such a player. Doesn't it suggest there's some kind of problem, whether it be she is apt to foul like crazy or Kim doesn't feel exactly as you do???? I'm just trying to be the devils advocate here!

 

[DaddyChoc]

When Diamond DeShields is playing her best. There aren't many players better.

 

[watanabe]

Thank you.

 

[stwainfan]

I don't think this has ever been in dispute. But that is a big when.

She is playing healthy this year. Her scoring and assist are up this year. I think she is starting to really starting to playing more up to her ability

 

[Zorro]

It is an odd thing about Pheesa, Lou and Gabby; the three of them on the court together are MUCH more than the sum of their parts! When any of the tree is out, the machine wobbles. Of course, it wobbles more when Pheesa is out, but without Lou or Gabby it still wobbles.

Of course, Lou and Pheesa have been playing together for quite a while, including the 3x3 competition, so it is not surprising that they are able to anticipate each other's moves the way they do. And Pheesa and Gabby have developed a synergy that is, if anything, even more remarkable. They seem to know where each other are and are going to be at all times.

This is why it is going to be so difficult to determine which, if any, of them make first team AA this season. They are so much a unit that it is hard to pick any of the three out as more deserving than the others. That sort of thing is, of course, endemic to UConn wbb, but this year it seems even more pronounced, at least to me.
+

 

[easttexastrash]

Just on the basis of what you're saying, because I haven't watched much of Baylor. Why is Kalani Brown only getting 20 minutes a game if she's such a player. Doesn't it suggest there's some kind of problem, whether it be she is apt to foul like crazy or Kim doesn't feel exactly as you do???? I'm just trying to be the devils advocate here!

It's called depth. Remember what that is??????

 

[CocoHusky]

Looking at Brown's numbers and the number of minutes she averages to me she's a no brainer. Nevertheless .

I have to disagree. The number of minutes played should not be factored in favor of Brown.
Kalani Brown averaged 20.3 Minutes per game and put up 15 PPG. Anigwe of Cal 30.7 minutes per game and averaged 21PPG. If you do a linear projection Kalani scores .73 points per minute played. Anigwe scores .68 points per minute played. Whatever the reason , conditioning, better player on the roster , stupid coach, Brown played in only ~half of her teams' minutes- AA should be playing in more than half the team's minutes IMO.

 

[easttexastrash]

I have to disagree. The number of minutes played should not be factored in favor of Brown.
Kalani Brown averaged 20.3 Minutes per game and put up 15 PPG. Anigwe of Cal 30.7 minutes per game and averaged 21PPG. If you do a linear projection Kalani scores .73 points per minute played. Anigwe scores .68 points per minute played. Whatever the reason , conditioning, better player on the roster , stupid coach, Brown played in only ~half of her teams' minutes- AA should be playing in more than half the team's minutes IMO.

Hopefully Baylor continues to have such depth at the post position that none of their players ever qualify for being an AA.

And technically, half of her team's minutes would be 100 per game. Is that what you are asking that she play to qualify as an AA?

 

[bags27]

I will present these stats and you can tell me how Wilson is having a MUCH better season than Kalani Brown.

Minutes per Game
Brown 20.3
Wilson 27.2

Points Per Game
Brown 15.0
Wilson 16.9

Rebounds per Game
Brown 8.3
Wilson 7.2

FG%
Brown 65.9
Wilson 58.4

FT%
Brown 72.1
Wilson 71.4

Blocks
Brown 54 (568 minutes played)
Wilson 53 (653 minutes played)

Assists
Brown 38 (568 minutes played)
Wilson 37 (653 minutes played)

Turnovers
Brown 46
Wilson 51

Steals
Brown 9
Wilson 26

Thanks for this. And it's my impression that Brown has been playing better as the season's gone on, becoming far more dominant lately.

 

[bags27]

Problem is she's wildly inconsistent and hasn't exhibited good basketball IQ. No chance at AA this year even if she is one of the more gifted players in the country. She's also a high risk high reward kind of player in the draft. Her game will be well suited for the pros, but she is wildly inconsistent and could easily be out of the league in just a few years. She could also develop into an Angel Mccoughtry caliber player if she'll work her butt off and improve her shooting/IQ. If I'm a GM of a good team, I'm not risking my pick on her. I'd opt for several others ahead of her.

I agree with a lot of what you say, and I'm a dyed in the wool critic of DD (mainly because I believe she lost a great opportunity to be a lot better when she turned down UConn). But I have to admit that lately she has been much more consistent and has essentially been carrying her team.

 

[CocoHusky]

Hopefully Baylor continues to have such depth at the post position that none of their players ever qualify for being an AA.
And technically, half of her team's minutes would be 100 per game. Is that what you are asking that she play to qualify as an AA?

Did you really throw 100 minutes per half out just now!? Try dividing by 5-as in the number of players!
Yes, if Baylor continues to play Kalani Brown 20 minutes per game it will ( and should) hurt her AA chances.
Brown does not have AA credentials this year because she averages 20.3 minutes/game.

 

[easttexastrash]

Did you really throw 100 minutes per half out just now!? Try dividing by 5-as in the number of players!
Yes, if Baylor continues to play Kalani Brown 20 minutes per game it will ( and should) hurt her AA chances.
Brown does not have AA credentials this year because she averages 20.3 minutes/game.

You said "half of the team's minutes." I was just picking on you for saying "half of the TEAM'S minutes," which equals 100 minutes per game.

And if you disqualify her for only playing 20 minutes per game but still having equal or better stats to other candidates that is certainly your opinion to have. She is the best post player in the nation even if she is not an AA.

 

[JordyG]

I have to disagree. The number of minutes played should not be factored in favor of Brown.
Kalani Brown averaged 20.3 Minutes per game and put up 15 PPG. Anigwe of Cal 30.7 minutes per game and averaged 21PPG. If you do a linear projection Kalani scores .73 points per minute played. Anigwe scores .68 points per minute played. Whatever the reason , conditioning, better player on the roster , stupid coach, Brown played in only ~half of her teams' minutes- AA should be playing in more than half the team's minutes IMO.

Well also in the Baylor/Cal consideration is the fact that Mulkey has a far deeper bench as she tries to juggle minutes. This aside from the factor that Baylor played the far better competition than Cal or Washington and is the far better team than either. Lumping in those factors I still say Brown is a no brainer over Osahor or Anigwe minutes or not. Beside, my eye test tells me as a WCBB center I'd rather face either than Brown.

 

[bballnut90]

I agree with a lot of what you say, and I'm a dyed in the wool critic of DD (mainly because I believe she lost a great opportunity to be a lot better when she turned down UConn). But I have to admit that lately she has been much more consistent and has essentially been carrying her team.

She has been much better this year. I still think she takes bad shots and has a very mediocre midrange/perimeter game. She can improve this, but she is fantastic when she drives the ball to the basket or is on the fast break.

It's just hard to fathom how a team with her, Russell (who is very very good) and Nared (also very good) has been so mediocre all season. I'd rather take a good player from a top program who has shown consistent development and improvement than a player who like Diamond who has all the talent in the world, but her team has underperformed and she hasn't shown big strides of improvement through 3 years.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Well also in the Baylor/Cal consideration is the fact that Mulkey has a far deeper bench as she tries to juggle minutes. This aside from the factor that Baylor played the far better competition than Cal or Washington and is the far better team than either. Lumping in those factors I still say Brown is a no brainer over Osahor or Anigwe minutes or not. Beside, my eye test tells me as a WCBB center I'd rather face either than Brown.

Osahor is a better passer and perimeter shooter than Brown. This is also a no brainer. She's much more versatile than Brown and presents some match up issues for defenses that Brown doesn't. Not saying she's a better player, but throughout this thread Osahor has been mostly overlooked and underrated. She is a very good player that does a lot of things well and is a nightmare matchup for most defenses. And she is leading the nation in rebounding by a wide margin.

 

[Dillon77]

If I'm looking at a/a's now - I see 9 that should be-- don't know the tenth. Not in order:

Plum
Collier
Gabby
Lou
Wilson
AJones (Baylor)
BJones (Md)
Mitchell
Turner

I think UCONN deserves 3- we have the number 1 schedule and beat all comers. It's not like one player was a giant - or the main go-to or was dominant nearly all the time.

Don't know the 10th but will be disappointed if all 3 don't get in the top ten.

I generally prefer to hold off on these until after the whole kit and kaboodle because I tend to think the cream rises to the top during the pressure games. A few thoughts:

- I have a hard time believing any organization is going to put three players from any one team on a Top Ten list (unless they're all seniors and even then....). In the case of UConn, KLS gets one nod and in every game I've seen, Gabby W. is a/"the" difference maker.
- Isn't being a good player being a good team member? That's one reason why we consider all three Huskies. In the same vein, it's why I can't consider DeShields that highly, whne she, Nared and Russell can put TN on a more consistent path.
- Love Lexi Brown, but how do you separate her from Greenwell? They're both essential to Duke.
- Mitchell is a slightly more consistent version of DeShields to me. She takes an awful amount of shots and time to get what she has to.
Can't doubt the talent but wonder about the method.
- Like what Flaherty and Jankoska are doing in their respective Michigan universities.
- Sydney Wiese is a really solid player. Top 10? Hmmm. But really solid.
- I'm a Domer -- not a particular homer -- but I've really gotten to appreciate what Lindsay Allen does for the team, not only in assists and field generalship, but she runs a good fast break and rebounds exceptionally well for a 5'8"person.
- Have not made up my mind on which big(s) I like best this year. Want to see the tournaments.

 

[JordyG]

Osahor is a better passer and perimeter shooter than Brown. This is also a no brainer. She's much more versatile than Brown and presents some match up issues for defenses that Brown doesn't. Not saying she's a better player, but throughout this thread Osahor has been mostly overlooked and underrated. She is a very good player that does a lot of things well and is a nightmare matchup for most defenses. And she is leading the nation in rebounding by a wide margin.

Osahor is a fine passer no doubt. Yet she plays on the high post often, a place Brown doesn't play as much. Brown is a fine FT shooter and that usually translates into having a fine outside shot, but in Mulkey's system it isn't necessary for her to shoot outside. Also as I've said, Brown has faced the far superior opposition than Osahor. If they were to play head to head I like my chances with Brown over Osahor, and for all of Osahor's versatility in a fast paced game again, Brown all day.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Osahor is a fine passer no doubt. Yet she plays on the high post often, a place Brown doesn't play as much. Brown is a fine FT shooter and that usually translates into having a fine outside shot, but in Mulkey's system it isn't necessary for her to shoot outside. Also as I've said, Brown has faced the far superior opposition than Osahor. If they were to play head to head I like my chances with Brown over Osahor, and for all of Osahor's versatility in a fast paced game again, Brown all day.

Far superior opposition? That seems like an exaggeration. Some tough OOC opponents like UConn, DePaul, Ohio St. and Tennessee plus UCLA, who UW played twice in conference. Some really really fluffy creampuffs in their too. Houston Baptist, Mississippi Valley St., SE Louisiana, Kent St., Abilene Christian, Texas St., Winthrop. Wow, that is really tough. Those are some opponents Maryland would approve of. Big 12 vs. Pac 12 conference schedules are about a wash, I'm not gonna give Baylor any credit for tougher competition there.

UW's OOC doesn't contain as many top teams as Baylor's, but they did play Notre Dame and Missouri. Colorado St., Boise St. and BYU aren't chopped liver. Their creampuffs aren't any worse and I'd argue probably not quite as bad as Baylor's. Not seeing this far superior opposition you are claiming.

I went thru and looked at the records of all of UW and Baylor's OOC opponents. Winthrop is quite possibly the WORST team in the country. 1 win in a crappy conference and 2 wins overall. Mississippi Valley St., SE Louisianan and Houston Baptist are all also abysmal. Baylor played more high end teams than UW but they also played more bottom of the barrel teams. Basically your argument comes down to playing 3 more games against good teams in OOC, while ignoring how many truly awful teams they played in OOC. Over a 30 game schedule, that is in no way "far superior competition."