Top Ten All-Americans

[easttexastrash]

Osahor is a better passer and perimeter shooter than Brown. This is also a no brainer. She's much more versatile than Brown and presents some match up issues for defenses that Brown doesn't. Not saying she's a better player, but throughout this thread Osahor has been mostly overlooked and underrated. She is a very good player that does a lot of things well and is a nightmare matchup for most defenses. And she is leading the nation in rebounding by a wide margin.

I have not said anything negative about Osahor, nor will I because she is a great player and you make some very good points. Plus, just watching her shoot that three pointer makes her one of my favorite players. I have seen her story and love what she represents...she is what WCBB is all about. Some of these players go through great struggles and to see them persevere makes me even a bigger fan.

It is truly hard to compare Brown with Osahor because Osahor is really a forward, IMO. She spends most of her time away from the basket, which works will for Washington as it frees up the lane for Plum. They are one of the best tandems in the country, no doubt.

 

[nwhoopfan]

And you're making my point for me as far as Osahor playing the high post. She's equally dangerous/effective in the high post or low post, gives the defense a whole lot more they have to game plan for. Osahor is shooting .396 behind the arc and has hit 44 3's on the season. Brown hasn't attempted a single shot behind the arc. That means Osahor can pull an interior defender completely out of the lane and open things up for teammates, something Brown either doesn't or can't do. Osahor is also pretty good attacking off the dribble from the top of the key, something I doubt Brown does. Brown might be the best player in the country as a purely post up scorer, but Osahor does so many other things that Brown doesn't or can't do, don't see how you completely ignore that.

 

[easttexastrash]

Far superior opposition? That seems like an exaggeration. Some tough OOC opponents like UConn, DePaul, Ohio St. and Tennessee plus UCLA, who UW played twice in conference. Some really really fluffy creampuffs in their too. Houston Baptist, Mississippi Valley St., SE Louisiana, Kent St., Abilene Christian, Texas St., Winthrop. Wow, that is really tough. Those are some opponents Maryland would approve of. Big 12 vs. Pac 12 conference schedules are about a wash, I'm not gonna give Baylor any credit for tougher competition there.

UW's OOC doesn't contain as many top teams as Baylor's, but they did play Notre Dame and Missouri. Colorado St., Boise St. and BYU aren't chopped liver. Their creampuffs aren't any worse and I'd argue probably not quite as bad as Baylor's. Not seeing this far superior opposition you are claiming.

I went thru and looked at the records of all of UW and Baylor's OOC opponents. Winthrop is quite possibly the WORST team in the country. 1 win in a crappy conference and 2 wins overall. Mississippi Valley St., SE Louisianan and Houston Baptist are all also abysmal. Baylor played more high end teams than UW but they also played more bottom of the barrel teams. Basically your argument comes down to playing 3 more games against good teams in OOC, while ignoring how many truly awful teams they played in OOC. Over a 30 game schedule, that is in no way "far superior competition."

I agree with your assessment. The "your schedule sucks" routine is overplayed, IMO. Some of these players would have better numbers if they were playing better opponents because they would be on the floor more. Brown is going to put up better numbers against a team like Texas than she will a team like Winthrop because she is going to get more minutes and will still be the biggest and most difficult to stop player on the floor.

 

[easttexastrash]

And you're making my point for me as far as Osahor playing the high post. She's equally dangerous/effective in the high post or low post, gives the defense a whole lot more they have to game plan for. Osahor is shooting .396 behind the arc and has hit 44 3's on the season. Brown hasn't attempted a single shot behind the arc. That means Osahor can pull an interior defender completely out of the lane and open things up for teammates, something Brown either doesn't or can't do. Osahor is also pretty good attacking off the dribble from the top of the key, something I doubt Brown does. Brown might be the best player in the country as a purely post up scorer, but Osahor does so many other things that Brown doesn't or can't do, don't see how you completely ignore that.

Well, that is good, because my goal was to confirm the point that you are making. In case you missed it, I am agreeing with you.

 

[nwhoopfan]

I have not said anything negative about Osahor, nor will I because she is a great player and you make some very good points. Plus, just watching her shoot that three pointer makes her one of my favorite players. I have seen her story and love what she represents...she is what WCBB is all about. Some of these players go through great struggles and to see them persevere makes me even a bigger fan.

It is truly hard to compare Brown with Osahor because Osahor is really a forward, IMO. She spends most of her time away from the basket, which works will for Washington as it frees up the lane for Plum. They are one of the best tandems in the country, no doubt.

Thank you, you are approaching this much more reasonably than your fellow Baylor fan.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Well, that is good, because my goal was to confirm the point that you are making. In case you missed it, I am agreeing with you.

Sorry for the confusion, that was a response to Jordy, not you. Should have quoted the previous post to make that apparent.

 

[easttexastrash]

Thank you, you are approaching this much more reasonably than your fellow Baylor fan.

Jordy, when did you become a Baylor fan?

 

[easttexastrash]

Thank you, you are approaching this much more reasonably than your fellow Baylor fan.

Each players add value that the other may not, and the coaches use them to take advantage of their strengths. Brown might not fit in as well in the Wash system as Osahor does, and vice versa. They are both incredible players and I would be fine with either being listed as an AA.

 

[Plebe]

I agree with your assessment. The "your schedule sucks" routine is overplayed, IMO. Some of these players would have better numbers if they were playing better opponents because they would be on the floor more. Brown is going to put up better numbers against a team like Texas than she will a team like Winthrop because she is going to get more minutes and will still be the biggest and most difficult to stop player on the floor.

I'm not sure why or how this conversation turned into a duel between Osahor and K. Brown. First of all, I've never heard that the All-American lists have quotas per position. They might both be selected, or neither might be selected. Also, there are many ways to slice the analysis. Brown's numbers are astounding when you consider her relatively limited minutes, but one might also rationalize that the other way by saying that she's less critical to her team's success because she spends less time on the court. There's little doubt that Baylor could more easily compensate for Brown's absence than Washington could for Osahor's.

 

[CocoHusky]

I'll give you credit for consistent Baylor Fandom:

Yes, Alexis Jones, who is going to be the best PG in the nation this season, IMO.

She (Kalani Brown) is the best post player in the nation even if she is not an AA.

You are however consistently wrong on both counts. The best PG in the nation this year has been Kelsey Plum. The best post player in the nation has been Brionna Jones.

 

[easttexastrash]

I'll give you credit for consistent Baylor Fandom:







You are however consistently wrong on both counts. The best PG in the nation this year has been Kelsey Plum. The best post player in the nation has been Brionna Jones.

Hey, I have spent most of my life being consistently wrong...why should I change now?

 

[watanabe]

Hey, I have spent most of my life being consistently wrong...why should I change now?

Me too!!!
I TOTALLY agree with you on that point. I like to call it "Humble arrogance."

 

[hoophuskee]

I generally prefer to hold off on these until after the whole kit and kaboodle because I tend to think the cream rises to the top during the pressure games. A few thoughts:

- I have a hard time believing any organization is going to put three players from any one team on a Top Ten list (unless they're all seniors and even then....). In the case of UConn, KLS gets one nod and in every game I've seen, Gabby W. is a/"the" difference maker.
- Isn't being a good player being a good team member? That's one reason why we consider all three Huskies. In the same vein, it's why I can't consider DeShields that highly, whne she, Nared and Russell can put TN on a more consistent path.
- Love Lexi Brown, but how do you separate her from Greenwell? They're both essential to Duke.
- Mitchell is a slightly more consistent version of DeShields to me. She takes an awful amount of shots and time to get what she has to.
Can't doubt the talent but wonder about the method.
- Like what Flaherty and Jankoska are doing in their respective Michigan universities.
- Sydney Wiese is a really solid player. Top 10? Hmmm. But really solid.
- I'm a Domer -- not a particular homer -- but I've really gotten to appreciate what Lindsay Allen does for the team, not only in assists and field generalship, but she runs a good fast break and rebounds exceptionally well for a 5'8"person.
- Have not made up my mind on which big(s) I like best this year. Want to see the tournaments.

Well I'm having a hard time believing that if two years ago UCONN had sr KML and two jr's in top ten and just because this year they are one year younger so some get disqualified not for what they did on the court but because some voter oversteps their bounds and thinks it' okay to not put the more deserving players on the list regardless of age. The better player - the one that wins too-- if stats are similar -- should get in. Not give it to someone because of age.

I didn't hold off mentioning the 9 players because barring a disaster and with primarily two games left- I think the 9 I mentioned deserve to be in. And the UCONN team is undefeated. Undefeated IS special (though UCONN ahs made it almost ordinary. It shouldn't be thought of that way. What they are doing IS exceptional and should trump age.) . For a team like ND to have the same number of a/a's on the team (you mentioned Allen) after UCONN beat ND and has THREE less losses for a super squad undefeated team- I find it ridiculous for any team with 3 more losses after they've been beaten by UCONN to have the same number as UCONN unless two players have MUCH BETTER stats. During the reg season the UCONN team and players were superior to ND. So the committee is supposed to give a/a status because of age? IMO that is ridiculous. Performance gets thrown to the wind even though the undefeated team is doing something historic and the players have performed at a superior level? THAT is to be ignored because of age?

As far as the bigs, you say you want to wiat for tournament? Yet I thought selecting is done before the tourney?

When it comes to Mitchell- I think we agree. I prefer the UCONN/ND style. But the style Ohio State plays-- they only lost 5 games. To a certain point winning has to count unless stats are super supreme. That's why for example imo Peterson from Cuse shouldn't sniff 1st team nor should the center from the pac-10 whose team ahs about a .500 record. I'm guessing you don't care for the style. But with that said- just because you and I have a personal preference of a style shouldn't mean we disqualify a player we don't care for -- if they are winning. There are different ways/styles to win and be highly successful- not just the style way we prefer the most.

 

[hoophuskee]

I'm not sure why or how this conversation turned into a duel between Osahor and K. Brown. First of all, I've never heard that the All-American lists have quotas per position. They might both be selected, or neither might be selected. Also, there are many ways to slice the analysis. Brown's numbers are astounding when you consider her relatively limited minutes, but one might also rationalize that the other way by saying that she's less critical to her team's success because she spends less time on the court. There's little doubt that Baylor could more easily compensate for Brown's absence than Washington could for Osahor's.

Yet a point being brought up where is that UCONN can't get 3 a/a's because they are in part they are too young.

 

[nwhoopfan]

There is no Pac 10 conference. It has been the Pac 12 since 2011. They changed the name to reflect the number of member schools, unlike the Big 10 and Big 12.

 

[CocoHusky]

First of all, I've never heard that the All-American lists have quotas per position.

There is,was, and will always bee a positional consideration to the selection of the AA teams. Occasionally the lines between F and C/P or G and SF/Wing is blurred but it is always considered.

 

[1-of-the-6]

I think Paris was a lot stronger and more effective. Didn't make it as a pro, however.

Paris may have been stronger, but not by a lot. Osahor can't run, but for two or three steps she's as quick as any real post. 44 threes made at almost 39%. Washington usually runs their offense through her because of her poise and ability to see the court. 4.1 assists per game. Leading rebounder in the country at 14.9 per game. 26 double-doubles in 30 games. All of this achieved in what is considered the best women's basketball conference in the country.

These are the ten that I would want on my team, not necessarily who I think will be first team All-Americans:

Gabby Williams - UCONN
Napheesa Collier - UCONN
Kia Nurse - UCONN
Katie Lou Samuelson - UCONN
Kelsey Plum - Washington
Chantel Osahor - Washington
A'ja Wilson - South Carolina
Brionna Jones - Maryland
Lyndsay Allen - Notre Dame
Sydney Wiese - Oregon State

Reserves

Brooke McCarty - Texas
Kristine Anigwe - California